gaining mass on a low calorie diet- at or below "genetic limit"

[Andy13]

What do you guys think about gaining lean mass while on low-calories? Lets assume the only defecent is total energy and that enough protein is provided.

 

[MaxBiceps]

IMO the first option. That's waht we used to do for boxing.
When you box, you have to be very weight conscious, so
we'd use winstrol, not to gain muscle, but to preserve what
we had while losing weight for an upcoming fight.

 

[Nimrod25]

I think the ultimate goal of most people is to gain lean mass and lose body fat simutaneously. While it is very difficult, I think it is possible. I voted that it is AAS type dependant.

 

[Andy13]

I think the ultimate goal of most people is to gain lean mass and lose body fat simutaneously. While it is very difficult, I think it is possible. I voted that it is AAS type dependant.

Can you expand on that?

Andy

 

[serge]

gaining mass while dieting is not possible unless extreme cercumstanses are present.

the 2 goals contridict each other, you can acheave a little of both simulteneously but you will make much better progress if you just did an all out bulking cycle followed by cutting cycle.

 

[MUSTANG_18]

I think it is possable to gain lbw while decreasing body fat. I myself have not done it yet but I am working towards doing that on this cycle. I have read of many people doing it before, I know Lawnsaver did it on his last cycle. Many people who use Anavar(which has been shown to decrease abdominal fat in some studies) and Fina have reported loosing BF% while increasing lean body mass. Also I have heard Primo works very well on low cal diets allowing people to do this but I myself have never tried it so can't say from expirience.

M18

 

[CONTRACTION]

I too believe you can do a little bit of both, but I think it's better to focus on one or another (bulking or cutting) in order to better achieve your goals and obtain results you will be more pleased with.

 

[The Iron Game]

Now if you said lean muscle tissue rather than mass we could have started talking

 

[Twisted_Steel]

I think "mass" is suspect terminology. Further clarify your point.

 

[chesty]

I just got done adding 10lbs in 8 weeks while loosing body fat on 1200 or less calories a day. In fact, I was quite shocked. I was using 400-750 mg aratest. 50 mg winny eod, and 300-450mg eq a week.

Go figure.

I believe you can gain lean mass, I know you can, and lose body fat at the same time.

 

[Fonz]

IMHO, the only 2 steroids capable of letting you gain
muscle and lose fat at the same time while you're below
your genetic limit, and you're consuming below maintenance
calories are Oxanadrolone and Primobolan.
They are the only two with a sufficiently strong
nutrient partitioning effect at lowered calories.
Also, IMHO Anavar is better than primo at doing this.

Godspeed

 

[YoungNHugeGuns]

Last year, before I even touched gear, I decided to diet off my gut. I was big, at 195# (well, big for 20 y/o and no gear), but still had that gut.

Still, completely clean, I went on a diet. My only carbs were complex carbs an hour before my workout and sugar right after. I had protein every three hours. I did intense cardio 4 mornings a week. I did e every weekend (which, as long as you stay hydrated, helps burn fat). My weight went from 195 to, well, 195, but I lost a significant amount of fat. Didn't measure the percentage, but got plenty of comments from people.

This means that, even not on anything (but 20 years old is a time of high natural testocerone levels anyway), I gained the same amount of weight in muscle that I lost in fat.

Maybe I genetically have a slow metabolism, and a lot of the extra calories were superfluous and not necessary for growth, and the cardio and dieting just shaved those calories off.

 

[Zyglamail]

Interesting subject Andy. 3 weeks into a cutting cycle my self. i started at 5'11", 236lbs, not at 245lbs and down 3%bf(19% roughly). Taking fina/winny. Using the 12x calorie rule for maint cals, that puts me at 2940 for maint. During the week I consume1900 to 2500 cals a day with plenty of protien and around maint cals on weekends. So far I am very pleased with my gains and BF loss.

 

[Andy13]

Sorry.. I actually DID mean lean muscle gains. I don't consider intramuscular lard and water to be gains.

 

[Vageta]

I am attempting this right now with an oxandrolone only cycle. I wanted to diet down for a cruise coming up in October and as my bodyfat has gotten lower I can see the need for more mass in areas. At only 3 months away from the cruise I knew I wouldn't be able to bulk and cut efficiently so I got some oxandrolone and am attempting to do them both simultaneously. So far the results are positive thought it's only been a week so far. Fact is I'm up a few pounds in weight and I am in a negative calorie balance. I look leaner in my arms already though I haven't noticed much on my stomach yet. I'm hoping in a week or so I can get a better idea on results and can make a calorie adjustment if necessary. I have 12 weeks of this so over the long term I'm sure I'll come out ahead.

I think it is physiologically impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time, literally. Anabolism and catabolism are completely different states and can't be sustained at the same time. However your body can switch between them many times per day which over the span of hours will essentially be at "the same time". I eat 7 small meals a day, each with 45g of protein. I think if you supply protein in sufficient amounts throughout the day, keep carbs moderate and fat relatively low and mostly EFAs then you could accomplish this feat. Also food timing around workouts is very important as well. If your body builds muscle following workouts, and burns fat the morning before your workout it will slowly alter your bodyfat %. Your weight may not fluctuate much but in actuality you are drastically altering your body composition.