for CoolColJ and other jumpers

[ZGzaZ]

I'd like to change my leg day sometime in the future to a leg day to help increase my vertical with some more explosive evercises...can you give me a good routine, currently it looks like:

Squats 5x5
Hacks 2x10
Seated Calf Raises 5x15
Stiff Legged Deads 2x10
Leg Curls 2x10
and abs...

I'm of course going to keep squats in there, but need to put in some other excercises for the vert..

 

[want2growbig]

bump for you, I have the same question hehe.

 

[Citruscide]

Hmm... CoolCol and I disagree on this, I believe... I don't think that SLAMMING the weights heavy and hard will necessarily improve your vert jump OR leap.

If that is your routine, I'd definately hit standing calves ... making sure to get a good squeeze at the top... one legged at that. It was one of my most fundamental "weight" exercises in Track at IU. I also did alot of leg curls.

Plyo plyo plyo... like I said in another post, I'm going to write up a big report/study on Plyometrics and how they can be used to increase speed, strength, agility and of course jumping ability. It shoudl be pretty informative and contain all the aspects BEHIND the training as well.

C-ditty

 

[ZGzaZ]

C, I follow needsizes routine very closely...and standing calf raises go on chest day for 5x15, the seated are on leg day 5x15, so they are hit 2x per week...and when that plyo report is done, let me get a copy

 

[coolcolj]

you need jump squats in there, and lots of hip extension moves, lower back stuff like back extensions.

Leg curls and calf raises are useless for vert , you need hip extension hamstring moves, and calves only contribute 5-10% of a jump if that, and plyos take care of their strength anyway since you land and jump from the balls of yoru foot while doing plyos.

You need both the limit strength side of the muscles, and the speed strength side. You can't have high power levels without high strength.
5x5 will develope the limit strength side, and then you need to do explosive squats with 40-60% of your 1RM etc. Stick to 6-8 sets of 3 for these, with rest periods of 1-4mins. Longer rest as you tire.

explosive partial standing deadlifts with help too, explosive hyper/back extensions . Lots of ab work
Stepups, jumping box squats and so on. lots of stuff.
Snatch grip deadlifts, hang cleans, med ball vertical jump throws
Once you get a good strength base, then add plyos and then later on depth jumps.


vert thread
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137641

also every rep has to be hyper acclerated, wetehr the eight is heavy or light you musty shove it as hard as you can. Don't jam the bar off yoru back or hyperextend the joint however. The act of doing this will recruit the fast twitch fibers, and condition your CNS to maximally recruit fibers and improve starting strength. Like the say train fast to be fast - the CNS is an important component of training for performance .

 

[Citruscide]

No problem on the plyo report dude

Cool Col... useless??? you NEED jump squats?? That's nonsense...

I'll have you know the STAPLE of my leg workout was my calf routine... it provided the much needed spring that was required for me to flop over the bar at over 7'. I agree to a point that leg extensions might not be as valuable... but leg curls... ok.

I'm telling you dooood... from my 4 years of experience in the high jumping game, that jumping with weights shit... it's not NECESSARY.. hey, if you want to do it, that's fine...

C-ditty

 

[coolcolj]

high jumping is nothing like vertical jumping, and none of the current athletes would be ccaught doing leg curls

Man does not live on depth jumps alone, remeber it is only one part of the wheel - you need high levels of absolute strength (squats, deadlifts etc), starting strength (oly lifts from blocks, box squats, deadlifts), acclerating strength (olys lifts and jump squats), reactive strength (plyos, oly lifts from the hang, depth jumps, jump squats) etc

I'm not the only one, lots of Russian athletes did it, lots of oly lifters do it, and you should know plyos came from Russia.
And in case you didn't realise jump squats are plyometric.

Remeber everything is cumulative, every component builds on the other, the sum is greater than the parts.

And another thing - a person who can jump higher from weights, oly lifts, plyos and jump squats will tear right through a person who only does plyos - dominate him in every single way and dunk right on his ass

I like to think of muscles as an engine in the car, sure with plyos might have a little bit of power from higher reving and lighter internal engine components.
But I got more torque from bigger capacity engine (weights), better engine managment computer (oly lifts) and a turbo (speed/strength exercises, jump squats and depth jumps )

 

[coolcolj]

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/11-27-01/the_foundation.html

THE FOUNDATION
by Chris Korfist

"Always be careful of what you jump into." I am not referring to the warning that your mother says to you as you writhe in pain after having jumped into something. I am referring to everyone's "missing link" in athletic development—plyometrics, or to others, shock training. As I read forums, talk to coaches and athletes this seemingly simple concept always comes up in conversation. If you are strong but you can't run good 40s or get good starts, there is of course an easy solution—start doing Plyometrics. If a team has speed and they don't look as though they should possess it, there is again an easy explanation—they have trained using Plyometrics. However, I think this easy solution is not so easy. In fact, I believe it is one of the most misunderstood aspects of training here in America.

I believe Plyometrics were introduced to the United States back in the 70s. Soviet sprinters were dominating the Olympic fields and U.S. coaches wanted to know why. So in the mid-1960s a bunch of U.S. coaches traveled to the USSR to observe their workouts with hope of finding the "missing link" in their training. One of the activities they observed was an athlete stepping off a box, hitting the ground and jumping up. This of course was the visual interpretation of Verkhoshansky's "shock training." And according to a story I believe I heard from Mel Siff, the Soviets thought they would have some fun with the Americans and convince them that their athletes do this exercise from a 10-foot height. The American coaches returned to the U.S. and started spreading the word about their new discovery. Of course, nobody pays any attention to the other aspects of their training and the tremendous base level training that was performed. Word spreads, Don Chu writes some books, and suddlenly American athletes in search of speed are dropping out of the sky everywhere and trying to rebound into a jump; most limp away with broken ankles or struggle to understand why they didn't achieve the same level of success as the great Soviet sprinter Valeri Borzov. If you talk to a Russian or a South African, they laugh and tell you this is the American way because we have taken a small part of a enormous Soviet training system and created a giant monster.

I think the first problem comes from general misunderstanding of where we borrowed the system. The USSR had a complicated system of developing athletes. They started when the athletes were young and placed the hopefuls in a multi-year program that built volume and technique over time. They were patient. So when their athletes were 18 years of age, they already had 6 years of solid training that was scientifically planned. Once these athletes reached a certain level, somewhere between the age of 18-20 depending on their strength deficit, they might have started shock training. All aspects of the depth jump, such has breath control and footwear are closely monitored. Rest periods ranged as high as 4 minutes between a single rep to 15 minutes between sets. There was a plan. The Soviets did not randomly open a book and declare, "Comrades, today, we will begin plyometrics, whether you need them or not!" To confuse things further, American coaches have simplified the original complex system to fit into American training programs.

The second problem comes from the American application of the training. True plyometrics or shock training is the simple box jump. Time needs to be spent learning the step off the box. It is a relaxed fall and not a jump off the box. The focus of training is on quality and not quantity. In America, more is always better, so instead of doing 20 good jumps every 5-14 days depending on the cycle, an excited coach may do 100 jumps every other day. This is a sure recipe for injury. Also, if the research says that they are good and can make you faster, why not make every athlete in the program do them, even though they can't squat properly or broad jump without falling. Again, athletes need to be prepared to do these exercises in order for them to be effective.

So, am I advocating the abolition of plyometrics from your athletic training? Of course not—we utilize a precise and delicate solution to get the results we do. It depends on the program, the athletes and the coach. If you have a well-planned multi-year, multi-cycle program, I would recommend them at the end of your program; for example, at the end of the pre-competition phase in their Junior and senior year. If you have a multi-year program and your athletes have mastered various Olympic lifts and have a strong torso, then your athletes will probably benefit from the exercises. And if you are a coach that is willing to take the time to teach proper jumping form and have the patience to go through a proper workout, then I would recommend plyometrics. If you do not feel that you can address these issues in a positive manner, then stick to hopping and chain or band box squats but above and beyond all else, a long-term plan of attack will realize the results you yearn for.

 

[Citruscide]

high jumping is nothing like vertical jumping, and none of the current athletes would be ccaught doing leg curls

You lost me.

High jumping is nothing like vertical jumping... yet I trained on my vertical jump... day in and day out for 4 years... 6 if you count the two years I went to State in High School. Vertical is the KEY to high jumping... but you are right, it is MORE than just vertical jumping... it is centripetal force... it is body control, it is flexibility, it is the ability to have HANG TIME...

Have you ever watched a meet?? When jumpers do a RUN THROUGH.. we jump as high as we can near the bar... the goal, is to get your hips to the same height as the bar... that would mean an easy clear... anything less than that, you are going to have to pull some MAJOR arch on your flop...

But I'm digressing... Leg Curls are an excellant exercise if performed correctly... do not simply brush them aside...

You can quote me all the articles you want to, my mello... But for that time period, I trained with collegic athletes... for 2 summer, I trained with WORLD CLASS jumpers... so I'm guessing something of what I'm saying is correct...

C-ditty

 

[ZGzaZ]

so C, or Cool Col...for my leg day, give me a good routine to do, what you think would be best...

 

[crew9]

Imma have to agree with Citrus here in the fact that I think plyos play a huge role in jump and speed and what not. I also think you doubt the power of your calves in jumping. I have not seen many people who could jump well that did not have good calves.

 

[Tagio]

...
5x5 will develope the limit strength side, and then you need to do explosive squats with 40-60% of your 1RM etc. Stick to 6-8 sets of 3 for these, with rest periods of 1-4mins. Longer rest as you tire.

explosive partial standing deadlifts with help too, explosive hyper/back extensions . Lots of ab work
Stepups, jumping box squats and so on. lots of stuff.

CCJ, for squats I'm currently doing a few warmup sets, then something like 5 reps with 135, 5 with 170-ish, 2x3 with 185, then 2x2 with 195 where 205 is my 1RM. Should I do the lighter speed squats before this, or on a separate day, or what?

also, would adding 6-8 sets of 3 fast reps partial standing deadlifts at 40-60% 1RM be beneficial?

 

[coolcolj]

I just don't see how a knee flexion exercise like leg curls is gonna help you with any athletic move, because they all use hip extension function of the hamstrings. And in any case glute ham raises are far suprior to any leg curl machine

High jumping is all about elastic energy, you do run up, there is also a lot of technique involved.
When I talk about vertical jumping, I'm talking about raw epxlosive power type - Shane Hamman at 5'9" 360lbs standing under a ring, and jumping straight up and dunking a volleyball type, no bounces, not step. You think Leg curls gonna help ya here?
Squats sure will

so C, or Cool Col...for my leg day, give me a good routine to do, what you think would be best...

I won't give routines out, because everyone is differnet, and training need to be periodised. Just take the key principals in mind and work from there.

Imma have to agree with Citrus here in the fact that I think plyos play a huge role in jump and speed and what not. I also think you doubt the power of your calves in jumping. I have not seen many people who could jump well that did not have good calves.

I never said plyos weren't important, they're just not the only component needed. They poteniate your strength base, a person who can squat 2 twice his bodyweight ass to the floor will get much better results from depth jumps, because his ground contact time will be much lower. I know a guy who plays semi pro ball in Europe who gained 5 inches on vert from depth jumps, in 10 weeks, but he could already full squat 405lbs and deadlift 455 at 200lb bodyweight.

Well not too many blacks have big calves, in fact a long achilles tendon would give you much better elastic spring from plyos and the dip while jumping...I can count quite a few black sprinters who have awesome jumping ability, and have stick calves. Shorter muscles with longer tendons can contract faster and store more elastic energy. Just like a kanagroo

Hips are still the prime movers. try lock your knees and jump as high as you can using only your calves, no dip, doubt you get too high off the ground - maybe an inch at most

CCJ, for squats I'm currently doing a few warmup sets, then something like 5 reps with 135, 5 with 170-ish, 2x3 with 185, then 2x2 with 195 where 205 is my 1RM. Should I do the lighter speed squats before this, or on a separate day, or what?

also, would adding 6-8 sets of 3 fast reps partial standing deadlifts at 40-60% 1RM be beneficial?

Don't train above 80% of your 1RM too often it will burn out the CNS. I would do a 70-75% only session every 3 weeks. In other words don't go above 170lbs too often. Your not doing enough volume of work either to get that squat to go up. You have to count the total reps your do and tonnage - repsxweight.
You want the tonnage to go up over a period of time, not necessarily in a linear fashion, but it will have to rise for strength to go up.

You could do the lighter squats on the same day, or different depending on how your split goes.

Try this squat setup - I designed this cycle for a football player who wanted to up his squat. I'm doing a variation of this at the moment.

every reps is lowered in a controlled fashion - about 2-3 secs and then accelerated up.

for week 1 - 24 total reps
4x3 60% 1RM - rest between 2-3mins
4x3 70% 1RM - rest between 3-5mins

for week 2 - 20 total reps
3x3 65% 1RM - rest between 2-3mins
3x3 70% 1RM - rest between 3-5mins
2x1 80% 1RM - rest 3-5mins

for week 3 - 17 total reps
3x3 50% 1RM - rest between 2-3mins
2x2 75% 1RM - rest between 3-5mins
2x2 85% 1RM - rest 3-5mins

for week 4 - 12 total reps
2x3 55% 1RM - rest between 2-3 mins
2x2 80% 1RM - rest between 3-5 mins
2x1 90% 1RM - rest 4-5 mins

Work up to a new Max out on week 5. Warmup with triples going up. then do one attempt under your old PR say 195lbs, then one just above and smoke it 210lbs for example, and then rest 5mins and then attempt with 5-10lbs more and so on.
Restart the cycle with your new max.


The deadlifts would help no doubt. They are done standing sort, bar dropped to knee level or just below and then exploded up onto your toes, you could shrug as well. Use weights around 25-40% of your 1RM, ie not too heavy.

another way is -

Weeks 1-4: Squat by percents, using 70%, 6-8 sets of 3 reps, and working up to a heavy triple every other workout (do this during week 2 and week 4)-aiming to bump up your 3rm PR each time you try this . . . rest between 2-6mins between sets
Start with 2mins, and go longer as you tire

. . . followed by 5 sets of 5 reps for weeks 5-8, working up from 70% to 85% of your 1rm over the course of your 5 worksets each time. In week 8, go for a 1RM PR then go back to the percent squating

One workout each week is devoted to jump squats, 3x6 and light explosive 40-60% 1RM squats 6-8x3. I would go from 40 to 60% over the course of the sets

Once you have the strength levels, then you can add plyos and depth jumps
Off course practise jumping weekly. I actually do a vertical jump 30 secs before each set of squats I do, helps me get into that explosive frame of mind and fires up the CNS - the squats following after are much more forceful.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Nice posts guys.
To jump higher you have to start jumping. Forgetting objects you can touch now, look past them and pick new ones to touch. Kind of like planning goals.
Plyo's will help, hit squats first. Variations like Box, wide and close stance wil help.
BE consistant.
Depending on your body, you may not be able to put on weight and jump higher. You will have ti figure out all these things by trial and error.

 

[PolishHammer1977]

bump

 

[Tagio]

thanks for all the info CCJ . Assuming I follow the first program, should I only do squats once a week? or should I do a light speed day (with jump squats maybe) later in the week?

I feel like I recover really quickly from squats, especially low-rep sets, so I'd feel weird only doing them once a week.

 

[Legion Kreinak2]

Just have to say... CCJ has a pretty impressive collection of links, articles, and his own knowledge base.

He is a great man.

Not to say that Citruscide doesn't seem to know his stuff as well.

 

[coolcolj]

thanks for all the info CCJ . Assuming I follow the first program, should I only do squats once a week? or should I do a light speed day (with jump squats maybe) later in the week?

I feel like I recover really quickly from squats, especially low-rep sets, so I'd feel weird only doing them once a week.

Squat twice a week if you can handle it, and you should since none of these are near failure. You will get better gains from squatting twice a week. You can either do the program twice, or do a speed day as you suggested.

Be warned the cycle may look easy on paper, but you have to push every rep like it is a max attempt - explode hard! And 8 sets of 3 , even though the weights are sort light at 60-70% in the first week, it will feel tough, until you get used to this type of squatting . The football player who I made this program for, said it yoked him pretty hard

 

[Tagio]

haha, if it kills me, at least I know it's doing something . I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Tagio]

oh, any suggestions about diet while I'm doing this?

 

[thriller]

hands down ccj is right. his training shows. obviously leg curl, extensions and normal calf raises are going to be more effective then doing nothing, but to say that it is more effective then free weight squats, deads, and oly lifts is far from true. using machines is no where near as affective as free weights for athletics.

no one said plyos are usless. i agree that plyos are the most important, but with out the strength its not as affective and safe.

 

[coolcolj]

oh, any suggestions about diet while I'm doing this?

Diet is not my forte, eat frequently

Well I used to be more diet concious, but IMO training is the most important variable, the body will do its best to adapt, you have to give it the right stimulus though.

 

[want2growbig]

I think both of you guys are right. Leg curls are important. So are squats. They also both work the hams and quads, but the curls isolate them more. So I would say the curls are only useful maybe as a 8-10 excerise on the 5x5 routine. Leg curls arn't that good for strength if thats what you want, cus the machine is too jerky for low reps. I always found leg press and squats hit my quads and hams great. But coolcolj, I thought calfs are wayyy more important....there are b-ball players at my school that dunk on the 10' and have strong calfs but have twig quads that squat 225 max. ???confused???

 

[Citruscide]

no one said plyos are usless. i agree that plyos are the most important, but with out the strength its not as affective and safe.

I agree weight training is good... but it is NOT the foundation to becoming a great jumper... good... maybe... but not great.

Plyometrics + a genetic inclination for being a skywalker took me to Nats 2 years in a row. And for those that say High Jumping isn't the same as vertical jumping, that is hogwash... lol

C-ditty

 

[thriller]

I agree weight training is good... but it is NOT the foundation to becoming a great jumper... good... maybe... but not great.

Plyometrics + a genetic inclination for being a skywalker took me to Nats 2 years in a row. And for those that say High Jumping isn't the same as vertical jumping, that is hogwash... lol

C-ditty

so are oyu saying that you can develop good leaping ability without being stronge?

 

[teen1216]

I agree weight training is good... but it is NOT the foundation to becoming a great jumper... good... maybe... but not great.

C-ditty

I would have to disagree that weight training is not the foundation. I think it is the foundation for jumping, and plyometrics are a great tool to build on that.

 

[coolcolj]

I agree weight training is good... but it is NOT the foundation to becoming a great jumper... good... maybe... but not great.

Plyometrics + a genetic inclination for being a skywalker took me to Nats 2 years in a row. And for those that say High Jumping isn't the same as vertical jumping, that is hogwash... lol

C-ditty

Well like you said you have good genetics - not everyone can be like Jordan and have a good jump without any training other than playing ball. The rest of us have to get stronger

Sigh - why do so may BBallers think calves are the be all and end all of jumping power? I guess why its so easy to make money off them if you sell a calf building gadget and promise them 12 inches on their vert in 8 weeks

 

[Citruscide]

Well like you said you have good genetics - not everyone can be like Jordan and have a good jump without any training other than playing ball. The rest of us have to get stronger

Sigh - why do so may BBallers think calves are the be all and end all of jumping power? I guess why its so easy to make money off them if you sell a calf building gadget and promise them 12 inches on their vert in 8 weeks

For one.. I'm not a bballer... LOL I was a track athlete...

Secondly, I never said you didn't have to be STRONG to be a good jumper.. .I did weight training... squats at 350, Leg press, leg curls, calves about 4 days a week... don't get me wrong, it has it's place in conditioning and development.

But to say that it is the FOUNDATION... I would never go THAT far. It definately plays a role...

I suppose if you were a ground-bound turkey whoe couldn't jump 6" off the ground... it would be a good place to start... but then again... you'll never be a sky merchant either...

I had predisposed genetics to give me a great vertical jump and leap... (two different things), that doesn't mean I woke up one day and could jump high. I had to train my ASS off to get to Nationals two years straight... you think that shit was easy? It wasn't. I didn't, and the other athletes didn't just coast through our routines and have amazing verticals.

I don't mean to be disrespectful of you CoolCol... but I find your attitude toward this to be somewhat pretentious. You have to realise that there are MORE ways to train for gaining high vertical that sitting in a gym and lifting weights.

I agree... weights should be added to any "vertical" routine... if you are trying to fly with the merchants in the sky.. .you need sprinting, ab training, work on your soleus and gastrocnemius, glutes and hammies... quads, IMO are the last muscle of importance... but still, not UNimportant.

Olympic high jumpers... plyometrics... plain and simple.

C-ditty

 

[coolcolj]

Who says I sit only in the weight room. But before one can do all those other things you listed at high intensity, one still needs to work on weights anyway, build up those tendons an ligaments as well as strength.

Your putting words into my mouth - I do sprint, I do bounds - I have posted vids of these, I do jump squats, I jump around a lot.
Latter on when I'm ready I will do depth jumps and so forth.

having said that let me quote John Smith on thrower Connie Price Smith

"In many cases Paul, speed and athletic ability becomes hidden because strength to body weight levels are to low. In college basketball Connie ran her butt off for 4 years and ran a 5.1 40 yard dash at 208lbs when she left basketball. Two years of weight training later she weighed 212 and ran a 4.7 and improved her vertical 6 inches without running or jumping in training"
All she did was rack pulls, squats, hang cleans/pulls, bench etc

I also feel triple jumpers are superior to high jumpers
The strength requiremnets for triple jumping are enormous!

There are also quite a few olympic lifters who can vertical jump over 40 inches without doing much jumping at all, and these guys are fast in short distance sprints, some can out run elite 100m sprinters - in fact olympic lifting is pretty much weighted ground based plyos - things suchs as jerks, push presses etc all use and develop the stretch reflex in the hips . Not only that its because of all the heavy squatting and pulls they do, . there are no weak Olympic lifters
There is an Ironmind tape of a the world record holder in the snatch in the 85kg class doing standing jumps onto and off a 44inch high desk (he says his record is 56inches) - he does it so carefree and easily. And when you see the weights he throws around with apparent ease, you know why

Depth jumps do work, I am not disputing that - but there is a time and place for everything. If you weigh 250-300lbs, depth jumping would be the last place you would start at, hell even 200lbs feel a tad heavy sometimes

 

[Citruscide]

I'm sorry CoolCol... it comes across as if you are dispelling everything I am saying as "useless".

you know, you can EASE into plyometrics, and ease into sprinting as well... I think easing into this process can give great results in jumping... my vertical leap was astronomical ... and I don't attribute it to weight training... although I did it, because, at the time, I felt squats, and so on were important to help build up strength.

I didn't just start plyo one day full on hard.... I eased into it... a little bit on day... a llittle the next... until eventually, I was doing box jumps for 30 minutes straight. Running up stairs, hopping up and down the stairs on one foot... for 30 minutes straight (alternating feet of course)... all of this dynamic training is kick-ass...

Of course, I wouldn't suggest THAT regime to a beginner... but to turn them off to plyos all together in favor of weight training... man... they are missing out on the best form of training in the world for speed, agility, quickness and jumping.

C-ditty

 

[coolcolj]

no problem dude

Also a lot of guys who play Bball - already get lots of "Plyo" like training from all the jumping they do on the court, so weight training can really help these guys more so than more plyo work. They already have decent speed, but lack the strength to generate more force. This was the case for me, the first 3 months of weight training jumped up my vert 3-4 inches without much effort.

that's why you need to treat each case on it's own merits. Just have to find your weakness, and work on it.

 

[Citruscide]

no problem dude

Also a lot of guys who play Bball - already get lots of "Plyo" like training from all the jumping they do on the court, so weight training can really help these guys more so than more plyo work. They already have decent speed, but lack the strength to generate more force. This was the case for me, the first 3 months of weight training jumped up my vert 3-4 inches without much effort.

that's why you need to treat each case on it's own merits. Just have to find your weakness, and work on it.

You know... I'm putting together an extensive report (going to start working on it after I move back to Chi-town in March)... I'm going to be writing it from alot of my own experiences in training, and stuff I've learned from other jumpers, spinters and other athletes ... it should be able to help people increase their quickness, agility, leg strength, jumping and speed...

I'd be interested if you could add any of your OWN research to this project??? Say.. once I get mine done, you could augment it with your own... to create a master routine??

c-ditty

 

[PolishHammer1977]

no problem dude

Also a lot of guys who play Bball - already get lots of "Plyo" like training from all the jumping they do on the court, so weight training can really help these guys more so than more plyo work. They already have decent speed, but lack the strength to generate more force. This was the case for me, the first 3 months of weight training jumped up my vert 3-4 inches without much effort.

that's why you need to treat each case on it's own merits. Just have to find your weakness, and work on it.

Well said. Good to see that you are implementing your dimensional approach.

 

[teen1216]

I did weight training... squats at 350, Leg press, leg curls, calves about 4 days a week... don't get me wrong, it has it's place in conditioning and development.

C-ditty

Ah, but do you believe that plyometrics would have helped you as much had you been squatting say...225?

 

[Citruscide]

Ah, but do you believe that plyometrics would have helped you as much had you been squatting say...225?

More so. Way more so. I couldn't squat that weight before plyo... It was pretty easy for me at the time... my legs were freeking big, my body sucked... the only thing holding me back was the inability of my back to support the weight LOL.

Prior to plyo (my rigerous training) I could probably do 185-205 for reps... as my plyo training got more and more intense... my squat weight went up... where it DIDN'T Go up when I was just on weights alone...

C-ditty

 

[teen1216]

I see....do you prescribe to the idea that if you do not have a base strength level high enough for plyometrics (I've heard of anywhere from 1.5x to 2.5x bodyweight), then they are quite dangerous and limit strength should be developed with weight training first?

 

[coolcolj]

You know... I'm putting together an extensive report (going to start working on it after I move back to Chi-town in March)... I'm going to be writing it from alot of my own experiences in training, and stuff I've learned from other jumpers, spinters and other athletes ... it should be able to help people increase their quickness, agility, leg strength, jumping and speed...

I'd be interested if you could add any of your OWN research to this project??? Say.. once I get mine done, you could augment it with your own... to create a master routine??

c-ditty

Maybe - I'm still learning, still experimenting on myself perhaps by Christmas, I'll have more complete knowledge on the subject.
Hopefully I'll have a 405lb oly squat by then and with some depth jumps under my belt

I should actually get a 60 metre FAT time done soon as well.

 

[Citruscide]

I see....do you prescribe to the idea that if you do not have a base strength level high enough for plyometrics (I've heard of anywhere from 1.5x to 2.5x bodyweight), then they are quite dangerous and limit strength should be developed with weight training first?

I'll put it to you like this. If my name were Joe Heavyfoot... and I have never worked out before... and I wanted to increase speed, jumping, etc... I'd start on a weight training program as well as plyometrics. I wouldn't start off with the rigerous plyos... there are various types of exercises that you can do that are more beginner... and less advanced.

I wouldn't suggest the advanced plyos to anyone who is just starting out... just like I wouldn't suggest loading up the squat bar with 250 to anyone who has never squatted before.

C-ditty

 

[PolishHammer1977]

Making sure you are always flexible is important as well. For some people it is beneficial and for some people it is not. Relate it to the goals you set for anything. Try to touch a centimeter more every time you stretch. You would be suprised what a little mind game can do for your jumping ability. Your lower back benefits as well just by becoming more flexible.

 

[Citruscide]

Making sure you are always flexible is important as well. For some people it is beneficial and for some people it is not. Relate it to the goals you set for anything. Try to touch a centimeter more every time you stretch. You would be suprised what a little mind game can do for your jumping ability. Your lower back benefits as well just by becoming more flexible.

BIG TIME dude... most people underestimate the importants of abdominals in jumping as well.

c-ditty