fish oil vs flax oil

[cozmokramer]

ok... I am a great supporter of FLAX and/or HEMP oil as I know that it is essential for getting EFAs

I've seen fish oil and cod liver oil popping up everywhere...
Does anyone know of any addition benefits these provide
oppossed to the flax/hemp oils...?

 

[NFG123]

Go Fish oil

Hey,

Go fish oil. Forget the flax. Check this out

<<Because the conversion fromALA to EPA is quite limited, flaxseed oil does not appear to be a goodreplacement for fish oil for people with elevated triglycerides.3 4 ALA has also been reported to not reduce another risk factor forheart disease (excess platelet aggregation) the way fish oildoes.5 However, flaxseed oil may help lower cholesterol,6and research specific to flaxseed oil indicates that it may also lower blood pressure.>>

---But if you want an increased cancer risk, flax is the way to go:

<<Dietary levels of ALA have been reported toincrease mammary tumors in an animal study,11 and correlate withbreast cancer risk in a human preliminary report.12 The breastcancer study was of particular concern. Advocates of flaxseed oil attributea potential association between ALA and cancer to the fact that meatcontains ALA, thus implicating ALA when the real culprits are probablyother components of meat. In the breast
cancer trial, however, saturatedfat (and therefore probably meat) were taken into consideration. ALA stillcorrelated with increased risk.

In another trial, dietary ALA associated withincreased risk of advanced prostate cancer even after the effects ofsaturated and other fats were factored out.13>>

---The fact remains that fish oil is flax oil, except without these problems. The only EFAs in flax you need are EPA and DHA, found in fish oil concentrates. The positive effects that are exerted from flax are in the limited conversion of Alpha linoleic acid to the bio-available EPA and DHA, a conversion that is indeed very limited and requires roughly 10x as much flax oil to get the same effect as with fish oil concentrate. Also, this flax oil adds normal fat to your diet and increases caloric intake which might be better spent on protein or a complex carbs to aid recovery. Flax is also extremely unbalanced in its Omega-3: Omega-6 ratio and chronic use will result in Omega-6 deficiencies.

--For my money, I take 4 g of Atkins "Essential Oils" a day. This has the best balance of Omega-6 (Gla and isomers) and Omega-3 (DHA and EPA) of anything I have found. I also take 6 g of CLA a day, which has been shown to decrease fat storage and when taken in excess of 8 g / day has a mild anabolic effect .... emphasis on MILD, although no statistically significant difference was found between that group and the control.

Hope all this helps.
--NFG (New F---ing Guy)

 

[cozmokramer]

GREAT INFO and CLA stands for what?

 

[NFG123]

CLA, the diggity Downlow

CLA stands for Conjugated Linoleic Acid.

I don't have the study reference for this one, but it has been shown to negative some of the negative effects of ALA, so if you have to take flax (which I wouldn't do) take CLA to off the effects. You are better off with fish oil or "Essential Oils" from Atkins pharmaceuticals (like he has a pharm company ... )

I would go with NOW brand CLA. It's not the most potent, but for your money, its by far and away the cheapest and this company is reputable. from dpsnutrition.com it costs me $12 for 90 caps at 1000g each (only 700 mg of the fat is cla though)

Pop 6 of these caps a day. The directions saying 3 are too low. Here is why:

Effects of CLA Supplementation During Resistance Training on Body Composition and Strength:

<<This study investigated the effects of CLA supplementation during resistance training on markers of catabolism, body composition, and strength.>>

This concluded: Results indicate that 28 days of CLA supplementation (5.6 g/day) did not significantly alter body composition in resistance-trained males. However, since there was evidence that CLA supplementation may affect catabolic activity and/or gains in strength, additional research is warranted.

Also:

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), an uncommon dietary lipid, is both anabolic and lipolytic in animals (Chin et al., J. Nutr. 124 (1994) : 2344-49; West et al., FASEB J. 11.3 (1997) : A599).

---I don't have the citation for this last one, but CLA was found to be effective in doing the final things:

1) Increasing insulin sensitivity in training male atheletes, this is especially pronounced and synergistic when used with chromium.

2) Increasing the action of hormone sensitive lipase (breaking down fat) and inhibits storage mechanisms by reducing the activity of lipoprotein lipase (stores it). The study didn't say how it does this, but I believe these effects are mediated through increased insulin sensitivity, since insulin directly regulates these two hormones. This also may account for the mild anabolic effects of this in dosages greater than 8g / day.

--summary is 6g a day won't break your bank, and it's a healthy fat.

--It has also been shown to be an anti-carcinogen, have anti-xidant properties and decrease the risk of prostate cancer

--I know that is a bunch of info to throw at you, but I think this is definitely something us bodybuilders should consider when planning a diet.

--New Guy

 

[VarixBro]

SInce most people here care more about transforming their physique then health, go with FISH OIL. Fish oil has very mild uncoupling effects along with being an excellent repartioning agent, same with CLA, albeit expensive.

 

[cozmokramer]

so fish oil would be better for weight/fat loss than flax oil...?

 

[flex4life]

Re: CLA, the diggity Downlow

CLA stands for Conjugated Linoleic Acid.

I don't have the study reference for this one, but it has been shown to negative some of the negative effects of ALA, so if you have to take flax (which I wouldn't do) take CLA to off the effects. You are better off with fish oil or "Essential Oils" from Atkins pharmaceuticals (like he has a pharm company ... )

I would go with NOW brand CLA. It's not the most potent, but for your money, its by far and away the cheapest and this company is reputable. from dpsnutrition.com it costs me $12 for 90 caps at 1000g each (only 700 mg of the fat is cla though)

Pop 6 of these caps a day. The directions saying 3 are too low. Here is why:

Effects of CLA Supplementation During Resistance Training on Body Composition and Strength:

<<This study investigated the effects of CLA supplementation during resistance training on markers of catabolism, body composition, and strength.>>

This concluded: Results indicate that 28 days of CLA supplementation (5.6 g/day) did not significantly alter body composition in resistance-trained males. However, since there was evidence that CLA supplementation may affect catabolic activity and/or gains in strength, additional research is warranted.

Also:

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), an uncommon dietary lipid, is both anabolic and lipolytic in animals (Chin et al., J. Nutr. 124 (1994) : 2344-49; West et al., FASEB J. 11.3 (1997) : A599).

---I don't have the citation for this last one, but CLA was found to be effective in doing the final things:

1) Increasing insulin sensitivity in training male atheletes, this is especially pronounced and synergistic when used with chromium.

2) Increasing the action of hormone sensitive lipase (breaking down fat) and inhibits storage mechanisms by reducing the activity of lipoprotein lipase (stores it). The study didn't say how it does this, but I believe these effects are mediated through increased insulin sensitivity, since insulin directly regulates these two hormones. This also may account for the mild anabolic effects of this in dosages greater than 8g / day.

--summary is 6g a day won't break your bank, and it's a healthy fat.

--It has also been shown to be an anti-carcinogen, have anti-xidant properties and decrease the risk of prostate cancer

--I know that is a bunch of info to throw at you, but I think this is definitely something us bodybuilders should consider when planning a diet.

--New Guy

any increased benefits in using Udo's Choice? It has omega 3, 6, 9

 

[cozmokramer]

udo's choice... of what... fish oil or flax...?

I just bought the GNC brand fish oil capsules...

how is that?

 

[Ironfoce]

Udo's choice has a great balance between the various omega's. It is costly but good shit.
Also, don't just get plain fish oils. Get Salmon Oil!!! It is higher in EPA and DHA which is the stuff you want. Norwegian Salmon Oil appears to have the highest values. I take Udo's Choice and Carlson's Norwegian Salmon Oil. When money is lower, or I run out of Udo's I just get some Flax to get me thru till I can get some more Udo's choice. I'm not familiar with Atkin's EFA product so I can't say how it stacks up to Udo's. All I know is that T-mag turned me on to Udo's and it seems like a great product.

 

[cozmokramer]

thanks for the recommendation... anyone else....?

 

[Ironfoce]

I did a little comparing of Udo's choice to Atkin's essential oils.
They seem pretty comparable. But Udo has a name and research behind him check it out he is some expert on fats.
http://www4.netrition.com/udos_choice_page.html
http://www4.netrition.com/atkins_essential_oils_page.html
http://www.looksmart.com/r?page=/se...d.html&pskip=&nskip=15&se=3,0,0,0,125&index=4

On the last one look at Udo's credentials. Pretty damn impressive.

 

[cozmokramer]

great research and great post... thanks!

 

[Ironfoce]

Your welcome!
Wasn't any trouble at all, as I was curious myself to see how they compared.
I think I'll stick with Udo's.

 

[WarriorPL]

wow im really not into taking anything except protein, now im thinking of getting fish oil... hmmmm

~WizKid

 

[dngu047]

Udo Erasmus is known as the father of fats and he wrote an incredible book called "Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill"

BUT Udo's Choice oil has omega 3's derived from flax (alpha linoleic acid) whereas most people on this thread (and i agree with this) say that you should be going for the omega 3's from fish oils (epa & dha)

 

[VarixBro]

Yeah Fish Oil is WAY better than Flax oil for losing fat along with other good shit, but I would stay with Flax year round for health reasons.

As far as Salmon Oil being a better choice than Fish Oil due to a higher ratio of DHA and EPA, it tends to be more expensive when you tally up the cost-benefit ratio, especially if you are able to catch any special prices on FISH OIL.

I prefer the Wal Mart version (it's been tested and from what I recall, wasn't rancid) since it's cheap and clean.

Ill send you some good reports about Fish Oil from people who know their shit more than most of us here.

 

[cozmokramer]

NFG123... what do you think about the NOW brand of fish
oil caps...?

1000mg
100% fat
EPA 360mg
DHA 240mg
omega-3's 600mg

 

[NFG123]

NOW

NOW is a pretty solid brand. Decent prices. Decent quality. Those stats have a good EFA:total fat ratio. For your money, and since you don't need nearly as much fish oil to get your EPA/DHA amounts, I would stick with either Sam's Club (you can get 300 1 g caps with 240/148 EPA DHA split) for $7 or what you have (NOW) that is a solid choice. For your other healthy fats, Udo's is a good choice, PB is great too.

Also, something I haven't looked into, but ... maybe someone knows. They sell SAFFLOWER oil at the local supermarket, the high-oleic oil kind. and SUNFLOWER oil (for cooking etc), these are both really healthy AND are the sources for all of the CLA supplements out there. I'm not sure how many grams of this oil (I dont know the potency of these) you would have to take to get the 6g of CLA, but it might be a cheap way to reap the benefits of CLA without paying the hefty price tag. Hey, what's wrong with a $4 1000 mL of safflower oil where you take a tablespoon to get 6 g of CLA and save yourself tons of bucks. Once again, I don't know how potent these are in regards to that, but it would be interesting to find out.

--Newbie

 

[Ironfoce]

Oh yeah I just remembered something.
Dipasquale says in his anabolic diet book to avoid MCTs on the diet because they can be used as another source of energy rather than ketones, or something like that, I can't recall exactly. So, Udo's, or anything else w/ MCTs should probably be limtited during a ketogenic diet. I do try to take more plain flax and salmon oils instead of so much Udo's when I am dieting. Of course Dan Duchaine used to recommend taking MCTs w/ creatine as a laxative during bodyopus, so I don't know. Also, many of the low carb bars have MCTs in them. Are MCTs OK to take on a ketogenic diet or not, Mr X. maybe????

 

[dngu047]

Yeah Fish Oil is WAY better than Flax oil for losing fat along with other good shit, but I would stay with Flax year round for health reasons.

Can you elaborate on the health benefits of flax oil vs fish oil?

 

[cozmokramer]

is it possible to have too much of these flax or fish oils?

 

[dngu047]

is it possible to have too much of these flax or fish oils?

yeah...the suggested ratio of omega3mega6 varies from around 1:4 to 1:1...now once you hit the 1:1 ratio you don't want to be consuming too many more omega 3's or you could risk imbalances

 

[Ironfoce]

A good place to get info on fats is to read the fat roundtable at testosterone.net.

 

[haresh]

So for fat burning rather than overall health , a combination of fish oil and CLA works best ??

I read in these post some poeple mention losing sat, are we talking about adipose tissue or skin folds, the kind you can grab ?

ANy information would be most appreciated. I am trying to get as much information as possible on reducing fat aound the belly area - cardio has helped but I was wondering if there is anything I could add on to aid the process.

Has anyone here seen a significant decrease in abdomen fat using nothing but any if the mentioned oils or CLA ???

Thanks !

Haresh

 

[Hoffmeister]

Elzi Volk has an excellent article on Fish Oil here:

http://www.coachsos.com/fishoilscan_volk.html