Effects of smoking & drinking on training/building

[Grizzly]

Professional bodybuilders should be never be used as examples of anything. They are genetic freaks, and the rules to which we mere mortals are subject do not apply to them.

What is it with this genetics shit? I realize that they play a role in how your physique turns out and all, but why rely so heavily on them? Personally, I think it's a cop out. Aside from a predisposition to accumulate mass, Arnold's genetics(as pertains to alcohol and what not, btw he also smoked pot) are no different from yours or mine where it concerns substance use.

 

[Grizzly]

Mike became a "meth-head" after that and went insane from it.
There is a big difference between use and abuse. A drink here or there wont hurt you. It will make you tired if thats how you like to feel. Why anyone smokes cigarettes is beyond me, all it will lead to is illness. All the pot smokers I know are in a permanent daze after years of abuse. They might not admit it but they're burnt.
Long term speed users are always underweight from not eating properly, then when they stop their metabolism is messed up and they put on a ton of fat. When you get in the groove of living a healthy lifestyle you wont want to put anything in your body that makes you feel like shit. Everything in
moderation..........................I should follow my own advice more often!

Agreed. I know that it's not good for you. I know that whenever I fall off the wagon and start fucking around with alcohol and what not my training is not nearly as good as it was when I wasn't drinking. My point, however, is that it's not THAT bad for you. It won't completely destroy your gains. It won't turn you into a fat, slobbering couch-potatoe, assuming you don't stop working out. It won't make you look like the average american. I know, I know one can't look at the pro's and emulate them because "they have these freaky genetics that just make them so different and so much better than normal people and drugs don't affect them the same way becaus they are superhuman," but look at Cormier. There's a dude who parties like crazy and he's still a goddamn freaky monster. Point being, it won't fuck you up that badly. And don't give me that shit about how it's all about the steroids and when you're on so many you can do anything you want and still grow because most of the people on this board are using so it's a moot point.

 

[Blood&Iron]

What is it with this genetics shit? I realize that they play a role in how your physique turns out and all, but why rely so heavily on them? Personally, I think it's a cop out. Aside from a predisposition to accumulate mass, Arnold's genetics(as pertains to alcohol and what not, btw he also smoked pot) are no different from yours or mine where it concerns substance use.

It's no cop out. It's being realistic. There is this little thing called the bell-curve. 66.7% of people fall right smack dab in the center, in the land of mediocrity. Within one standard deviation point you've got 98% of the population. Within two 99.9%. Well, pro-bodybuilders, people with IQ's of 180, olympic athletes; they all fall outside of two SD points. No amount of wishing makes things otherwise. No amount of studying will get a person of average intelligence into MENSA and no amount of hard-work in the gym will get turn the average person into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't mean one can't make tremendous strides in his physique and look better than 99% of non-exercisers, but I think much of the drug use endemic to bodybuilding is because people don't accept reality.

 

[the People's Champ]

WOW. I am taking elem stats and I never would have thought I would see it in use. I am still laughing that you busted out the bell curve!!!

 

[the People's Champ]

oh and just to let you guys know, I DO smoke cigarettes and it does restrict growth. I am seeing results because I have a pretty balanced diet, but I know for a fact that smoking does limit your potential. just a smoker's opinion...

 

[Grizzly]

It's no cop out. It's being realistic. There is this little thing called the bell-curve. 66.7% of people fall right smack dab in the center, in the land of mediocrity. Within one standard deviation point you've got 98% of the population. Within two 99.9%. Well, pro-bodybuilders, people with IQ's of 180, olympic athletes; they all fall outside of two SD points. No amount of wishing makes things otherwise. No amount of studying will get a person of average intelligence into MENSA and no amount of hard-work in the gym will get turn the average person into Ronnie Coleman. That doesn't mean one can't make tremendous strides in his physique and look better than 99% of non-exercisers, but I think much of the drug use endemic to bodybuilding is because people don't accept reality.

Ok, maybe I'm spoiled because I grow very easily. I haven't used anything yet, unfortunately, and I have 19" arms, but I still think genetics are highly overrated. As far as bodybuilding is concerned, I do believe that I can and will go pro and I think that most people can attain a significantly large physique. Think about it. Most people who complain about not being able to get big eat like shit and train even worse. There's no method to their madness. They try this and try that and never really pay attention to the details. Thus, they never succeed. I will grant you that a large number of people can't turn out to be Ronnie, but I will argue for hours and hours that there's no such thing as some people who just can't grow. I maintain that everyone, barring people under 5'8" can be over 200 pounds with good to great cuts. It's simply a matter of effort, consistency and, for a good portion, drug use. Most people just give up and use the lame excuse "oh, I've got poor genetics." Look at a muscle magazine. There's photos of thousands and thousands of people with great physiques. Don't tell me that there's 200,000 people with good genetics and the rest of the world got fucked. It's a matter of perserverence and work put in.

 

[Blood&Iron]

Ok, maybe I'm spoiled because I grow very easily. I haven't used anything yet, unfortunately, and I have 19" arms, but I still think genetics are highly overrated. As far as bodybuilding is concerned, I do believe that I can and will go pro

Most people who have good genetics think this way. BTW if you have legit, unpumped 19" arms you might well be able to achieve pro status--although not without a significant amount of drugs.

and I think that most people can attain a significantly large physique. Think about it. Most people who complain about not being able to get big eat like shit and train even worse. There's no method to their madness. They try this and try that and never really pay attention to the details. Thus, they never succeed. I will grant you that a large number of people can't turn out to be Ronnie, but I will argue for hours and hours that there's no such thing as some people who just can't grow. I maintain that everyone, barring people under 5'8" can be over 200 pounds with good to great cuts.

I never said an average person can't achieve a significant level of muscularity. But the difference between a pro-bodybuilder and being a cut 200lbs is huge. Have you met any pros in person? They're ungodly. Personally, I don't like the look of modern pros. They look like they're about to go into labor at any second.

It's simply a matter of effort, consistency and, for a good portion, drug use. Most people just give up and use the lame excuse "oh, I've got poor genetics." Look at a muscle magazine. There's photos of thousands and thousands of people with great physiques. Don't tell me that there's 200,000 people with good genetics and the rest of the world got fucked. It's a matter of perserverence and work put in.

As for the muscle mags, most of the photos are of the same damn 100 or so people again and again. If you look at the pictures readers send in, they look decent but nothing like the guys in the IFBB. If, as you write, many REQUIRE drugs to achieve significant development, this goes more to bolster my assertion that genetic cards are not dealt equally to all(As an aside, no one needs drugs to achieve an impressive physique.) The people who are pros would be impressive even without the drugs.

 

[Grizzly]

Most people who have good genetics think this way. BTW if you have legit, unpumped 19" arms you might well be able to achieve pro status--although not without a significant amount of drugs.

I never measure pumped. It hardly seems like the right way to do it. I want to know how big my muscles are. Not how big they are when they're engorged with blood.

I never said an average person can't achieve a significant level of muscularity. But the difference between a pro-bodybuilder and being a cut 200lbs is huge. Have you met any pros in person? They're ungodly. Personally, I don't like the look of modern pros. They look like they're about to go into labor at any second.

Of course it's a huge difference. However, most people don't want to be a pro. They just want to be big and cut. Yet, these people are always complaining to me about they're genetics while they're sucking down a beer and eating pizza. Not that I don't do that too, but that's only after I've gotten in all of the necessary nutrition and it's Saturday night. No, I've never seen an actual pro up close. Although, I have seen several national competitors and this one dude in my gym who is fucking gigantic. I didn't realize just how big a pair of traps could become. It's really scary. I love it! If this fellow were ten years younger and had better legs and 50% of his body wasn't covered with tattoos, then I think he could be a pro. Maybe not an olympia contender, but atleast he could make the ranks.

As for the muscle mags, most of the photos are of the same damn 100 or so people again and again. If you look at the pictures readers send in, they look decent but nothing like the guys in the IFBB. If, as you write, many REQUIRE drugs to achieve significant development, this goes more to bolster my assertion that genetic cards are not dealt equally to all(As an aside, no one needs drugs to achieve an impressive physique.) The people who are pros would be impressive even without the drugs.

This was the part that I actually meant to comment on, but I couldn't resist replying to the rest of it, too. Anyway... Of course drugs are needed. It's been that way since what? The late 50's early 60's. Sure, one can develop a good pysique without them, but the bar is set so high these days, that to achieve a great pysique drugs are a requirement. I've struggled with that, actually. I had always intended to be completely natural, but then I gave up my adolescent fantasy and came to grips with reality and realized that drugs are necessary to achieve muscle mag results. As for the pros being impressive without drugs... Of course they would, but not nearly as impressive. Let's face it, people want to see juiced out monsters. If that weren't the case, then the natural competitions would draw as much of a crowd as the IFBB shows do. But people don't want to see that shit. They want 285lbs of solid beast. There's kind of big and impressive and then there's FUCKING MASSIVE! Why settle for less than the biggest and best?

 

[growin']

Booze, cigs,weed, all that stuff is really fun. I used to indulge VERY regularly when I was in college (best 6 years of my life!!) I have to say, that I got ALOT bigger and ALOT leaner when I cut that shit out. Reasons why:

1. Alcohol lowers testosterone and raises estrogen in men
2. Alcohol inhibits protein utilization
3. Cigs are just plain hard on the lungs (nicotine does have some antiestrogen qualities, but why not use the gum or patch)
4. Weed makes me lazy(a personal thing, not a rule)
5. Alcohol disrupts sleep hormones (GH included?) for something like 72-96 hours.

These substances usually involve staying out late which further screws up you sleep patterns, and hence, recovery ability. Don't get me wrong, I think this stuff is fun, but right now, I'm focused on improving my physique, which for me, involves minimizing these substances.

 

[Benzi]

Now this is an interesting topic... or it would be if I knew anything about it. Perhaps someone else can educate those of us not in the know? I heard something once about how you may hurt your protein absorbtion (with alcohol, I believe). Other than that....

Myself, I smoke one cigarette a
day at the most, except when I drink, and then it's 4 or 5. I drink once a week at most, but I do it right (I get plowed, 9 or 10 drinks at most). As for smoking the other stuff....hell, I bet that's healthier, not nearly the chemicals. Anyway, I share this information because my theory now is: Ok, maybe this stuff is bad, but I don't do it nearly as much as most others.

As an aside, what about some healthIER drinks? I dunno, like prune juice and vodka or something. I'm sure one reason I still have this gut is because I drink beer.

I'm prepared for an onslaught of posts admonishing me and touting abstinence, but come on, nobody's perfect, and I can't be alone.

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