Doctors vs Guns - Statistics

[p0ink]

Doctors vs Guns - Statistics
Unknown

Number of physicians in the U. S.: 700,000. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.

Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171 (U. S. Dept of Health & Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the U. S.: 80,000,000.

Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.

Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one doctor.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.

We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

 

[Becoming]

awesome..

 

[p0ink]

we seriously need to do something about the doctor scourge in america. we'll be doing it for the children, after all.

 

[Becoming]

funny - I know of a lot of doctors that own guns... one of them is even an registered arms dealer and has all kinds of crazy shit

 

[big4life]

So we should go out and shoot a doctor?

 

[p0ink]

so when do we have a million mom march protesting doctors?

 

[Clean]

what exactly are "accidental deaths"a cause by doctors?

 

[-SD-]

I think that number of accidental deaths for doctors is high. That works out to 17% death rate for docs, lets get real for a second.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

thank your local HMO for that one guys. thanks for your participation.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

funny - I know of a lot of doctors that own guns... one of them is even an registered arms dealer and has all kinds of crazy shit

you gotta be a registered arms dealer (FFL license) in order to own the COOOOOOL stuff. i'm gonna have to get me one of those licenses some day when i got the $$$$$ to spare.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

what about intentional gun deaths?

Can't really say doctors are more dangerous than gun owners until you take that into account.

And is your stat for guns registered firearms or does it include estimates of illegally obtained firearms. Because we all know that most firearms involved in crimes are obtained illegally.

 

[JMazz12]

I think that number of accidental deaths for doctors is high. That works out to 17% death rate for docs, lets get real for a second.

agreed.. that is definatly not right...that means that every doctor accidentally kills someone every 5.8 years...i doubt it..

 

[biteme]

Approximatley 2 million people die each year in the US. So about 6% of these deaths are caused by doctor mistakes, according to this report. That sounds about right. I just read an article that blames doctors for over 250,000 deaths per year. They save a lot more lives than they lose, but they do make too many mistakes. Huge difference in quality of doctors.

 

[vinylgroover]

what about intentional gun deaths?

Can't really say doctors are more dangerous than gun owners until you take that into account.

.

Poink conveniently left that statistic out because it makes claim frivolous and irrelevant.

 

[p0ink]

I think that number of accidental deaths for doctors is high. That works out to 17% death rate for docs, lets get real for a second.

those are the states. go look them up. i already verified it before posting.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i think that it should only include legally obtained guns. if you want to kill someone, you don't need a gun to do it, it just makes it a bit faster and easier. the point of those numbers is that gun owners are responsible people, and it's something that needs to be shoved down the throats of people that think we shouldn't be allowed to own guns. even if the ownership of guns was made illegial, there would still be crimes/murders committed with guns. if you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to get what you want. look at illegial drugs. just because they're illegial isn't stopping people from obtaining them and using them. gun ownership by responsible citizens is not a bad thing. guns don't kill people, people kill people. until there is 100% concrete proof of a gun levitating in the air, loading itself, taking aim, and shooting someone dead, you'll never convince me that guns kill people.

doctors do save a lot of lives. sometimes mistakes happen. gotta remember it's a human doing the operation. it's not an excuse, just a reason. even the best and brightest make mistakes from time to time.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

Approximatley 2 million people die each year in the US. So about 6% of these deaths are caused by doctor mistakes, according to this report. That sounds about right. I just read an article that blames doctors for over 250,000 deaths per year. They save a lot more lives than they lose, but they do make too many mistakes. Huge difference in quality of doctors.

if someone with CHF, CVD sees a

cardiologist
internist
pulmonologist

and is on 19 meds, and every Dr. is HIPPA compliant, information exchange is hardly ever comprehensive.

lets factor in Blue Cross wanting every dr to see pts for less than 8 minutes, and to take pts from 8am - 4pm every day.

dont forget the HMO rep that comes by with an actual treatment regimen for a pt with XX disorder, almost completely tying the physician's hands.

last but not least lets talk about compliance with orders.

------------------------------------------------------------------

where does the problem most clearly lie?

 

[p0ink]

Poink conveniently left that statistic out because it makes claim frivolous and irrelevant.

QUICK GUN FACTS
Derived from Gun Facts by Guy Smith

FACT: The non-gun homicide rate for children in the U.S. is more than twice as high than other western countries.

Eight times as many children die from non-gun violent acts than from gun crimes.

* Kids and Guns, 2000, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention

This indicates that the problem is violence, NOT guns !!

FACT: 82% of homicides to children age 13 and under were committed without a gun.

* 1997, FBI Uniform Crime Statistics

FACT: 0.1% of all deaths for children between the ages 0-14 are from firearms, 0.6% are from motor vehicles, 5.3% are from being struck in beatings or bludgeoning, 6.0% from poisoning, and 42.6% from suffocation.

* 1997 National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics Report

FACT: In 1996 there were only 21 accidental gun deaths for children under age 15. About twice as many children under 10 die from drowning in bathtubs.

* Centers for Disease Control

MYTH: 13 Children are killed each day by guns.

FACT: The statistics cited for this myth include "children" up to age 19 or age 24, depending on the source. Most violent crime is committed by males ages 16-24, so these numbers include adult gang members dying during criminal activity.

*FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1997

FACT: 18-20 year olds commit over 23% of all gun murders. None of these criminals are allowed to purchase a handgun due to their age under current law.

* U.S. Treasury and Justice Dept. Report, 1999

FACT: During the Clinton administration, federal prosecutions of gun-related crimes dropped more than 44%.

* Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse (TRAC) at Syracuse Univ. 1992-1998

FACT: There are more than 22,000 gun laws at the city, county, state, and federal level.

* BATF estimate, 1992

If gun control worked, then we should be free of crime.

FACT: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years.

FACT: 90% of all violent crime in the U.S. does not involve any gun of any type.

* 1998 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms

FACT: Less than 1% of all guns will ever be used in the commission of any type of crime (much less violent crime).

*FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994

FACT: Two-thirds of the people that die each year from gunfire are criminals shooting other criminals.

* FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994

FACT: The national five day waiting period under the Brady Bill had no impact on murder or robbery, but slightly increased rape and aggravated assault rates by a few percent. For these two crime categories, the major effect was to delay law-abiding citizens from getting a gun for protection. The risks were greatest for crimes against women.

* Dr. John Lott Jr., Univ. of Chicago School of Law

FACT: Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year, or 6,849 per day.

* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.

Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminals) is shed.

FACT: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are prevented just by showing a handgun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually ever fired.

* Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ.

FACT: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times- more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds.

* Fall 1995, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology

This means that, each year, firearms are used 65 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

FACT: Of the 250,000,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.

* U.S. Dept. of Justice, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration,

Rape Victimization in 26 American Cities, 1979


MYTH: Concealed Carry Laws Increase Crime

FACT: When citizens are allowed to carry concealed weapons:

* Murder rates drop 8%

* Rape rates fall 5%

* Aggravated assaults drop 7%

More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right -to -carry laws.

TYPE OF CRIME HOW MUCH HIGHER IN RESTRICTIVE STATES (states without Concealed carry laws)

Violent Crime ……………………81% higher

Murder ………………………….. 86% higher

Rape …………………………… 25% higher

Assault…………………………… 82% higher

Robbery………………………….. 105% higher

Auto Theft……………………….. 60% higher

* John Lott, David Mustard: This study involved county level crime statistics from all 3,054 counties in the U.S. from 1977 through 1992. During this time, ten states adopted right-to-carry laws. It is estimated that if all states had adopted right-to-carry laws, in 1992 the U.S. would have avoided 1,400 murders, 4,200 rapes, 12,000 robberies, 60,000 aggravated assaults- and would have saved over $5,000,000,000 in victim expenses.

FACT: 92.7% of law enforcement officials believe that citizens should be able to purchase firearms for self-defense and sporting purposes.

* 1999 Police Survey, National Assoc. of Chiefs of Police

MYTH: Police are our protection, and people don't need guns.

FACT: The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to protect individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Dept.,

444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: 'Courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community.'

FACT: After Canada's 1977 gun controls prohibited handgun possession for self defense, the "breaking and entering" crime rate rose 25%, surpassing the U.S. rate.

* Pat Mayhew, Residential Burglary: A Comparison of the United States,

Canada and England and Wales (Nat'l Inst. Of Just., Wash., D.C., 1987)

MYTH: Japan has strict gun control and a less violent society.

FACT: In Japan, the murder rate is about 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 each year by weapons other than firearms.

* United Nations data

Therefore, if all of the firearms in the U.S. could magically be eliminated, we would still have three times the murder rate of Japan.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

here's some more p0ink

"In the four years after the U.K. banned handguns in 1996, gun crime rose by an astounding 40%. Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."
-Dr. John R. Lott Jr.

I've read several of Lott's studies, and they're pretty fucking thorough, pretty interesting too.

The US Bureau of Justice's 1997 Firearm Use by Offenders report shows that over 80% of state inmates possessing firearms acquired them from family, friends, or an illegal source, while only 12% bought guns from a retailer or pawnshop.

 

[vinylgroover]

Poink,

I've been through this before with you.

And please don't recite John Lott. His nonsensical studies have been unravelled a number of times. The fact that the gun lobby continually quote John Lott just goes to show that the pro-gun lobby has nothing.

The other ridiculous aspect of your's and most pro-gun people's argument is this constant comparison of gun related deaths to other causes of death. It is so irrelevant to make those comparisons and i really don't understand what you andothers try to achieve by making these comparisons.

The central point is that if you reduce the presence of guns in the community, you will reduce the incidence of homicide. Thank you very much.

 

[-SD-]

The central point is that if you reduce the presence of guns in the community, you will reduce the incidence of homicide. Thank you very much.

This solution is the best of both worlds, however, if most gun deaths are caused by illegally obtained firearms, then guns will be obtained illegally and this is all just academic at this point.

 

[Delinquent]

This solution is the best of both worlds, however, if most gun deaths are caused by illegally obtained firearms, then guns will be obtained illegally and this is all just academic at this point.

Exactly. It's just like anything else that's illegal. People will find a way to obtain said merchandise.

 

[ChefWide]

I think we could come up with a dumber analogy than that:

How about comparing hearts to drunk drivers.

You do the math. Having a working four valve model is WAY more dangerous than a drive through bar...

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

The central point is that if you reduce the presence of guns in the community, you will reduce the incidence of homicide. Thank you very much.

Where is your proof. I've done extensive research on this (I was pro gun control when I started) and found everything to the contrary. Did you read my stat on crimes committed with illegally obtained firearms?

Gun control only affects law abiding gun owners. It does NOTHING to stop illegal sales.

 

[Ffactor]

ARE WE REALLY ThAT RETARDED??

 

[manny78]

you gotta be a registered arms dealer (FFL license) in order to own the COOOOOOL stuff. i'm gonna have to get me one of those licenses some day when i got the $$$$$ to spare.

I do, at least a canadian license. The license itself is not expensive (less than 800$ a year). The problem is all the requirements related to the safe/vault, how and where you keep you weapons...

 

[Ffactor]

ARE WE REALLY THAT RETARDED??

Let's try another stat:

How many lives do Dr's save per year vs. How many lives guns save per year.

I'm telling you people this country is going down the toilet because we are becoming stupider every day. People like Limbaugh, Sharpton, Farrakhan and a few select others are spreading poison aided by our inability to think.

 

[manny78]

ARE WE REALLY THAT RETARDED??

Let's try another stat:

How many lives do Dr's save per year vs. How many lives guns save per year.

I'm telling you people this country is going down the toilet because we are becoming stupider every day. People like Limbaugh, Sharpton, Farrakhan and a few select others are spreading poison aided by our inability to think.

The retards are those saying this or that kills people (car, guns, baseball bat, docs, hookers...). Docs save people, guns too, both can also kill. Bottom line is, it will always depend on how you use something. An unqualified doc is as dangerous as a gun in the wrong hands. Should we ban docs ? No, Should we ban guns ? No. Now should we kick out those who have no business in these fields ? Hell yes.

 

[crew9]

This is why I hate stats. You can use stats to prove almost anything.

 

[Ffactor]

I am a gunowner and avid hunter, what blows my mind is the comparison of guns to doctors!

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

I am a gunowner and avid hunter, what blows my mind is the comparison of guns to doctors!

word

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Pointless doctor compairison. They don't compair. Just because you use the word death dosen't mean they have commonality. And Just because a study suggests that shit taste good dosen't mean I'm having it for dinner.

 

[danielson]

they should then do a comparison of the number of healthy people doctors kill vs. number of gun deaths

i'm pro gun because the proliferation of guns in the US makes it completely illogical to remove them from legal owners but leaving them in the arms of criminals because some mums with nothing better to do think its a good idea

but showing the incidence of crime increasing in the UK because of gun restrictions is not a fair comparison...it misses out important social changes in the UK, plus imigration and black market weapons being availible

a doctor never intentionally kills a patient, and to be honest its society's restraints like JP pointed out that cause a lot of it...

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

This has to be the most illogical comparison ever made.

 

[atlantabiolab]

This has to be the most illogical comparison ever made.

It is not illogical in that it demonstrates the frivolous nature of the attack on guns. Those who yell about gun possession do not take into consideration the relative risks compared to the rest of human activities, many of which are much more dangerous to life and limb. They look at guns as a direct cause of violence and death, as opposed to studying the factors that are involved in gun related deaths. One does not read in the paper "Gun kills woman." or "Gun shoots police officer." A human, in most situations, must shoot another, yet it is the gun that is demonized, as if it took possession of the owner and caused him/her to kill. In such mindless reasoning, Fascism killed millions, not Germans.

Using such examples is not intended to be a direct comparison, merely an example of the waste of time that is the gun control advocate.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Poink,

I've been through this before with you.

And please don't recite John Lott. His nonsensical studies have been unravelled a number of times. The fact that the gun lobby continually quote John Lott just goes to show that the pro-gun lobby has nothing.

Please show us the links to this or present the evidence that Lott has been discredited, unlike his gun control counterpart, Bellisailes (sp.) who was outed as a complete fraud.

The other ridiculous aspect of your's and most pro-gun people's argument is this constant comparison of gun related deaths to other causes of death. It is so irrelevant to make those comparisons and i really don't understand what you andothers try to achieve by making these comparisons.

What is irrelevant about demonstrating the comparitive risks associated with gun ownership vs. other human activities? If my chance of being harmed by one activity is so low, compared to other risks I take, then there is little reason to fear this activity. Removing this fact removes logic from the equation, so I do understand why the gun control crowd wishes to deny the comparitive risk idea.

The central point is that if you reduce the presence of guns in the community, you will reduce the incidence of homicide. Thank you very much.

But you have also removed the protection people have against other crimes, as demonstrated in areas where gun possession has become outlawed. So you again focus on one factor while rejecting reality. Demonstrating statistical relationships focuses too much attention on small numbers of variables and discards external effects.

The reality is that man has the right to self-defense, through reasonable means, guns being one of them. Those who wish to deny gun ownership wish to deny man his rights, thus they are threats to freedom.

 

[Nubly]

from my experience- its usually the patient that caused said 'accident'. the patient and/or the family of the patient just like to blame the doctors. and the american courts, especially in cali, are crappy

 

[vinylgroover]

Please show us the links to this or present the evidence that Lott has been discredited, unlike his gun control counterpart, Bellisailes (sp.) who was outed as a complete fraud.



What is irrelevant about demonstrating the comparitive risks associated with gun ownership vs. other human activities? If my chance of being harmed by one activity is so low, compared to other risks I take, then there is little reason to fear this activity. Removing this fact removes logic from the equation, so I do understand why the gun control crowd wishes to deny the comparitive risk idea.



But you have also removed the protection people have against other crimes, as demonstrated in areas where gun possession has become outlawed. So you again focus on one factor while rejecting reality. Demonstrating statistical relationships focuses too much attention on small numbers of variables and discards external effects.

The reality is that man has the right to self-defense, through reasonable means, guns being one of them. Those who wish to deny gun ownership wish to deny man his rights, thus they are threats to freedom.

Atlanta, for a reasonably intelligent guy, you have a complete lack of common sense which is unfortunate.

When it comes down to a question of reducing indiscriminate killing vs. preserving 'freedom', i could care less about preserving freedom.

the only thing worth preserving in society without any compromse is life.

 

[juiceddreadlocks]

Where is your proof. I've done extensive research on this (I was pro gun control when I started) and found everything to the contrary. Did you read my stat on crimes committed with illegally obtained firearms?

Gun control only affects law abiding gun owners. It does NOTHING to stop illegal sales.

pigeon rat for president.

 

[p0ink]

i could care less about preserving freedom.

that explains it all right there.

it's a damn good thing many men, much braver and more intelligent than yourself, didn't subscribe to this same ideology.

 

[vinylgroover]

that explains it all right there.

it's a damn good thing many men, much braver and more intelligent than yourself, didn't subscribe to this same ideology.

I'd appreciate if you quote in me in context next time.

and spare me the patriotic horseshit that you just used as a crutch for a weak argument.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

When it comes down to a question of reducing indiscriminate killing vs. preserving 'freedom', i could care less about preserving freedom.

Then I sincerely hope yours is taken from you. You're not deserving of it.


EDIT: added the rest of the quote. You're still utterly undeserving of freedom.

 

[vinylgroover]

Then I sincerely hope yours is taken from you. You're not deserving of it.

read my post above.

if you wanna quote me, quote me in the context i originally made my statement in.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

read my post above.

if you wanna quote me, quote me in the context i originally made my statement in.

I fixed it for you. You're still utterly undeserving of the freedom you have.

 

[vinylgroover]

I fixed it for you. You're still utterly undeserving of the freedom you have.

Thank you. See what a difference it makes when you take someone out of context.

preserving life vs preserving the right to own a firearm? I'll take the first anytime.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Atlanta, for a reasonably intelligent guy, you have a complete lack of common sense which is unfortunate.

When it comes down to a question of reducing indiscriminate killing vs. preserving 'freedom', i could care less about preserving freedom.

the only thing worth preserving in society without any compromse is life.

I am the one without common sense, but you, who believes that the mere possession of guns is the root cause of violence in our society, is in reality the reasoned one? LOL.

Why protect life so fervently, when you strip it of its freedom? If man cannot be the ruler of his actions, then what is the value of his existence?

 

[vinylgroover]

I am the one without common sense, but you, who believes that the mere possession of guns is the root cause of violence in our society, is in reality the reasoned one? LOL.

Why protect life so fervently, when you strip it of its freedom? If man cannot be the ruler of his actions, then what is the value of his existence?

really atlanta? i'd like you to point out where i have made any suggestion that guns are the root cause of all evil in any of my posts.

That's where you people are totally irrational.

My contention is that if you reduce the number of guns in society you will reduce the incidence of homicide. Nothing more or less than that........no magical cure for the eradication of crime or violence........just a numerical decrease in the number of homicides. I'm sorry if you don't believe that isn't something worth striving for.

 

[crew9]

People who think this stat is actually a plus for owning guns etc, I'm for right to bear arms myself, are fucking retarded at best.

 

[crew9]

Omg This Just In!!!! Wearing Clothes Leads To Death!! In A Shocking New Finding It Was Discovered That 80% Of People Who Die A Day Were Wearing Clothes. Only 15% Of Those People Died With Guns. Obviously Guns Are Safer Than Clothes.

 

[MAX 300]

Next time I get sick I won't see a doctor I'll just play Russian roulette.

This stat is more retarded than any other the gun lobby has put out.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Thank you. See what a difference it makes when you take someone out of context.

preserving life vs preserving the right to own a firearm? I'll take the first anytime.

That would be great except for the fact that removing the right to own a firearm will NOT EVER be the means for preserving life. Since the dawn of time, humans have been taking the lives of humans. And firearms were not a part of that cycle. If you could remove every gun in the world today, life would still be taken and murders will still occur, accidental deaths will still occur. And what is even more fun is that some lives will be LOST because you took away firearms. NICE JOB!

 

[p0ink]

Next time I get sick I won't see a doctor I'll just play Russian roulette.

This stat is more retarded than any other the gun lobby has put out.

are you retarded? it was simply pointing out how many other daily activities are far more dangerous than guns, but yet you don't see politicians trying to ban, legislate, and restrict them, do you?

 

[crew9]

are you retarded? it was simply pointing out how many other daily activities are far more dangerous than guns, but yet you don't see politicians trying to ban, legislate, and restrict them, do you?

Do you fail to realize that everyday activities have lots of deaths because millions and millions and billions of people do them. You cannot compare guns to everyday activities.

 

[p0ink]

Do you fail to realize that everyday activities have lots of deaths because millions and millions and billions of people do them. You cannot compare guns to everyday activities.

once again, that's the point. there are many activities in life that are far more dangerous than guns, so why is our government not going after them?

 

[crew9]

once again, that's the point. there are many activities in life that are far more dangerous than guns, so why is our government not going after them?

They are not more dangerous! There are more deaths because there are more people doing the activities. How is this hard to understand.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Do you fail to realize that everyday activities have lots of deaths because millions and millions and billions of people do them. You cannot compare guns to everyday activities.

Ok, I'll bite. Why can't you compare guns to everyday activities? Dead is STILL dead.

 

[bluepeter]

Some old stats but gives you an idea:

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

 

[crew9]

Ok, I'll bite. Why can't you compare guns to everyday activities? Dead is STILL dead.

Fine you can compare anything to anything. That does not mean, however, that the comparison actually gives useful information.

 

[p0ink]

They are not more dangerous! There are more deaths because there are more people doing the activities. How is this hard to understand.

"There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years."

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Some old stats but gives you an idea:

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994: United States 14.24; Brazil 12.95; Mexico 12.69; Estonia 12.26; Argentina 8.93; Northern Ireland 6.63; Finland 6.46; Switzerland 5.31; France 5.15; Canada 4.31; Norway 3.82; Austria 3.70; Portugal 3.20; Israel 2.91; Belgium 2.90; Australia 2.65; Slovenia 2.60; Italy 2.44; New Zealand 2.38; Denmark 2.09; Sweden 1.92; Kuwait 1.84; Greece 1.29; Germany 1.24; Hungary 1.11; Republic of Ireland 0.97; Spain 0.78; Netherlands 0.70; Scotland 0.54; England and Wales 0.41; Taiwan 0.37; Singapore 0.21; Mauritius 0.19; Hong Kong 0.14; South Korea 0.12; Japan 0.05.

See and this would be even more beneficial if you would stack deaths per 100,000 for X-related also.

Then stack that up against statistics from places that already have removed handguns.

Oh, and in light of this board, stack up the number of deaths per 100,000 people due to AAS.

 

[crew9]

"There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years."

How many of those gun are used during the day as often as cars? How many of those guns are being used around others using guns 24/7?

 

[bluepeter]

"There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years."

That's great but what is the feasability around banning cars vs. guns? You may be less likely to die from being shot but it still happens quite often doesn't it? The same study from 1998 indicates there were over 30 000 gun related deaths in the U.S.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

That's great but what is the feasability around banning cars vs. guns? You may be less likely to die from being shot but it still happens quite often doesn't it? The same study from 1998 indicates there were over 30 000 gun related deaths in the U.S.

How many of those 30,000 were from police shootings?
How many of those 30,000 were from self-defense?
How many of those 30,000 were accidental?
How many of those 30,000 were from suicide?
How many of those 30,000 were from murder?

 

[bluepeter]

How many of those 30,000 were from police shootings?
How many of those 30,000 were from self-defense?
How many of those 30,000 were accidental?
How many of those 30,000 were from suicide?
How many of those 30,000 were from murder?

I don't know and don't care. All I'm saying is that there appears to be the attitude 'well cars and doctors and anal sex kill more people than guns'

So what? They are still dangerous and I think they should be gotten rid of. Just my opinion and I can see the arguments against. Not a topic I'm overly passionate about but I just thought some of the comparisons being used here were a little idiotic.....

 

[bluepeter]

See and this would be even more beneficial if you would stack deaths per 100,000 for X-related also.

Then stack that up against statistics from places that already have removed handguns.

Oh, and in light of this board, stack up the number of deaths per 100,000 people due to AAS.

I don't have time for that but the country with the most guns has the highest rate of deaths per 100 000. USA.

As you go down the list, you see countries that have many fewer guns per capita.........

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I don't know and don't care. All I'm saying is that there appears to be the attitude 'well cars and doctors and anal sex kill more people than guns'

So what? They are still dangerous and I think they should be gotten rid of. Just my opinion and I can see the arguments against. Not a topic I'm overly passionate about but I just thought some of the comparisons being used here were a little idiotic.....

I understand. ANd I think that what you're seeing is people saying in response to your statement in bold is that there are a significant number of things that are dangerous and you don't see an outcry to get rid of them. If dangerous and lives lost are the criteria, guns are WAY down on the list of things to get rid of.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I don't have time for that but the country with the most guns has the highest rate of deaths per 100 000. USA.

As you go down the list, you see countries that have many fewer guns per capita.........

I see, so you just want selective data to support your viewpoint?

 

[bluepeter]

I understand. ANd I think that what you're seeing is people saying in response to your statement in bold is that there are a significant number of things that are dangerous and you don't see an outcry to get rid of them. If dangerous and lives lost are the criteria, guns are WAY down on the list of things to get rid of.

I agree but see one of my previous posts on the thread in regards to comparing gun and auto deaths. How feasible is it to ban automobiles?

 

[bluepeter]

I see, so you just want selective data to support your viewpoint?

No, no, I'm trying to say it doesn't matter that much to me. I only waded in to try and point out that the comparisons that were being made were dumb.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

I agree but see one of my previous posts on the thread in regards to comparing gun and auto deaths. How feasible is it to ban automobiles?

Ah, so if it's isn't convenient/feasible to prevent deaths by banning something, then we shouldn't do it? I know I'm baiting you.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

No, no, I'm trying to say it doesn't matter that much to me. I only waded in to try and point out that the comparisons that were being made were dumb.

And the use of those and other statistics to ban firearms is dumb too, but that doesn't stop anyone from trying to do so.

 

[bluepeter]

Ah, so if it's isn't convenient/feasible to prevent deaths by banning something, then we shouldn't do it? I know I'm baiting you.

son of a!#!%$#

OK, what do you consider a more essential part of maintaining your current lifestyle, owning a gun or a vehicle?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

son of a!#!%$#

OK, what do you consider a more essential part of maintaining your current lifestyle, owning a gun or a vehicle?

Neither actually. I could get along fine without either. Now, when I lived more out in the boonies, both were necessary.

 

[The Shadow]

Doctors vs Guns - Statistics
Unknown

Number of physicians in the U. S.: 700,000. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.

Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171 (U. S. Dept of Health & Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the U. S.: 80,000,000.

Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.

Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: Not everyone has a gun, but everyone has at least one doctor.

Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.

We must ban doctors before this gets out of hand.

LMAO

 

[bluepeter]

Neither actually. I could get along fine without either. Now, when I lived more out in the boonies, both were necessary.

That wasn't the question , you can't have both. If you didn't live in an urban environment, which item would be more essential?

 

[Becoming]

Neither actually. I could get along fine without either. Now, when I lived more out in the boonies, both were necessary.

If I had to make a choice I woudl pick a gun... You can find other ways to get around but if someone breaks into your place, you're f*cked...

 

[strongsmartsexy]

That wasn't the question , you can't have both. If you didn't live in an urban environment, which item would be more essential?

A gun. I can't shoot an intruder with my car, but I can call a cab.

 

[p0ink]

why do some of you trust only governments to have weapons despite the fact governments have been responsible for the worst atrocities in human history?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

why do some of you trust only governments to have weapons despite the fact governments have been responsible for the worst atrocities in human history?

I firmly believe that the intent of "the right to bare arms" was to keep an armed populice so that they could resist their government if needs be.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

"There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years."

Why are your numbers only comparing accidental gun deaths? It's the intentional gun deaths that are causing the most problems

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Doctors vs Guns - Statistics
Unknown

Number of physicians in the U. S.: 700,000. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year: 120,000.

Accidental deaths per physician: 0.171 (U. S. Dept of Health & Human Services)

Number of gun owners in the U. S.: 80,000,000.

Number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups): 1,500.

Accidental deaths per gun owner: 0.0000188.

Again, why only accidental deaths?

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Why are your numbers only comparing accidental gun deaths? It's the intentional gun deaths that are causing the most problems

You mean like from the police?

Or do you mean murders? And is your contention that if you don't have guns, you won't have murders?

The anti-gun lobbies are trying to use "accidental" deaths due to handguns as one of their tools for supporting their position. This just brings to light the absurdity of that position relative to something else.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

You mean like from the police?

Or do you mean murders? And is your contention that if you don't have guns, you won't have murders?

The anti-gun lobbies are trying to use "accidental" deaths due to handguns as one of their tools for supporting their position. This just brings to light the absurdity of that position relative to something else.

It's the gun murders that are the problem. There would be a lot fewer murders without weapons that make it so easy to kill. A first grader can kill with a gun. It takes a lot more effort to kill with a knife or club. You have to get close to your victim and the victim has a much better chance of surviving the attack. The whole argument that there would still be murders without guns is pointless. Of course there still would be murders but there would be much fewer.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

I firmly believe that the intent of "the right to bare arms" was to keep an armed populice so that they could resist their government if needs be.

Indeed.

2nd Amendment: (proposed by James Madison)
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Federalist Paper 46: (by James Madison)
Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

There is no doubt that it was Madison's intention for all men to bear arms.


"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms." -Thomas Jefferson

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." -Thomas Jefferson

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves in all cases to which they think themselves competent (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved), or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press." -Thomas Jefferson

 

[strongsmartsexy]

It's the gun murders that are the problem. There would be a lot fewer murders without weapons that make it so easy to kill. A first grader can kill with a gun. It takes a lot more effort to kill with a knife or club. You have to get close to your victim and the victim has a much better chance of surviving the attack. The whole argument that there would still be murders without guns is pointless. Of course there still would be murders but there would be much fewer.

Statistically the "less murders without guns" doesn't hold up. Just see the statistics from countries that have already removed guns from the populice.

Your argument about a first grader "killing" with a gun is argumentative useless, unless you want to establish culpability of that first grader as it's intent to murder!

The argument that there would still be murders is no more pointless than the assertion that not having guns will reduce murders. Not having guns may reduce the incidence of accidental deaths though. However, if you're going down that path, then the statistics that were on the first post show you there is at least a more significant contributor to those.