DNP for Dummies

[smokinghawk]

HOW TO NOT FUCK UP DNP:

Since some guys have been playing around and disrespecting DNP and then griping to the forums about the painful results, we need to make this VERY specific and VERY correct so that people won't keep jumping for DNP out of curiosity, or without the willpower they need to operate this respondibly. So here are my experienced guidelines to using it the RIGHT way.

FIRST GUIDLINE: Dosing. Use ONLY 200mg a day for the first four days. I don't care that you don't "feel" anything yet and you wanna bump it up. DNP accumulates in the body, and not "feeling" something means NOTHING. It's there, and it's working (the effect on metabolism begins within two hours of the first dose!). Four days will let you test your tolerance: do you have an allergy? Does it give you a rash? etc.
Only after those four days do you bump it up, by 200mg a day. The average dose is 400-600/day, and more than that gets a little severe. A full gram is the highest dose I've heard anyone use. I've used that much, and it's hell. I like to stay around 600 a day, which is HOT but safe and effective. Take caps even hours apart through the day, ending about 4-5 PM.

SECOND GUIDLINE...How to eat on DNP. This is purely personal experience, because some guys like to carb-deplete *before* using DNP (then eat carbs as usual while on), and other guys like a low-carb approach throughout. Both are fine. Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle.
Be aware that eating high-carb foods WILL increase the heat sensation within an hour, and last about 2 hours. That means don't eat carbs before bed unless you want those night sweats to be even WORSE.
Personally, I ate whatever the hell I wanted! IHOP, chinese, fajitas...Yes, I burned hot, but I still lost 1.5 pounds every 2 days. Keep protein HIGH for muscles' sake, and try it yourself.

Foods I suggest including:
Blueberry yogurt. Blueberries are excellent antioxidants, and yogurt cultures help with digestive function, gas, and stool consistency (disgustingly soft stools are common during DNP).
Oregano-based foods. Oregano is perhaps one of the most potent antioxidants around,a nd one spoonful counts as a vegetable serving. See this article
Pineapple - I've found that pineapple helps alleviate those "DNP Blues". The fructose helps, and pineapple enzymes aid in protein digestion.
V8 - one 12-ounce can supplies six servings of veggies, concentrated as an excellent source of antioxidants, lycopene, and recovery of electrolytes.
Oatmeal - high-fiber foods are necessary. You'll find out why around, oh, day 5 or so. Trust me.


THIRD GUIDELINE...Supplements and DNP. I suggest:
ECA - DNP is not a stimulant. To keep energy high and aid in fat loss, use an ECA. Some advisors suggest that regular ephedrine is preferable to norephedrine because of the more direct "hit" of energy.
Prohormones - perfectly fine on DNP. I used 1-AD just to help keep strength and muscle up, and it worked fine. No problems here. You won't GROW muscle on DNP, but it'll help with strength and protection.
Obvious stuff - multivitamin, ZMA, etc.
Biotest PowerDrive - No, I'm not pimping Biotest. But PowerDrive is an excellent pre-workout mixture that actually works. Plus it's low-carb (only 15 calories total), so it won't cause carb-heat in the middle of your workout.

Antioxidants - I'm giving my own personal list, and why I use them:
Alpha Lipoic Acid - aids in fat management and blood sugar, and an excellent antioxidant.
Grape seed extract
Syntrax Radox
Green Tea
Inositol - mood enhancement, antioxidant, and muscle support. 1 gram/3x day
Ellagic acid - protects cell DNA/RNA from damage by free radicals, and may even atack cancerous cells. 400mg/twice a day
Fruit antioxidants - beyond-a-century's powder of high-potency natural fruit anti's. 1 gram, 2-3x day.
Trimethylglyceine - antioxidant, helps move fat and blood lipids into the liver and out of the body. 500mg, 2x day.
Vitamins E and C

Supplements NOT to use:
Any medications that suppress energy. No allergy meds, antidepressants, muscle relaxers, or beta blockers. DNP will have you low as it is; don't worsen your body's energy by taking something that suppresses you further.

DRUGS - Sheesh, you'd think I wouldn't have to mention this, but two idiots in particular (right here on this forum) recently affirmed that some people still just don't get it. NO alcohol (not even "moderate"), NO ecstasy, NO GHB, etc. If you don't have the willpower to forego these habits, DNP is not for you.

Syntrax Swole - a personal discovery. I tried Swole while on DNP...once. Two hours of hell, feeling inside-out.

FOURTH GUIDELINE...working out on DNP. Keep lifting short, 30-40 minutes. DNP works very well, causing your body to use 150% or more the calories per action you'd normally use. That means DON'T try to repeat your usual workouts. Drop to moderate weights, 8-12 reps, not to failure, and with plenty of walking rest between sets. You are NOT going to grow muscle on DNP, so don't use your usual heavy routine. Since DNP can cause light-headedness and heat dizzyness, you have my permission to skip squats in favor of leg presses this time.

Cardio is a controversial one. My advice - do NOT do cardio on high doses of DNP (600mg or more). It's dangerous and counterproductive. Below that amount, some cardio is fine, but keep it to 20 minutes and not at full-gallop. Remember, DNP will drain water from your quickly, causing you to leech out minerals, vitamins, and salts. Don't overdo it.

During exercise, consume at least 1 liter of water per 30 minutes of work, whether you're thirsty or not. DNP is evil in the way it blunts thirst, while at the same time doing the cruel trick of bloating your body with water WHILE dehydrating you from water in your organs. MAKE yourself drink. Always folllow DNP exercise with antioxidants, carbs, and this is a good time to use your multivitamin.

Don't feel embarrassed about poor workouts. Just this morjning I did a workout with a whopping nine sets (wimp!) before calling it quits. Listen to your body, and let it tell you when enough's enough; don't guage workouts by what you *usually* can do otherwise.


Next installment: designing your own DNP caps. Purely for information's sake. Posting any of this information is not an admission that I have ever used DNP; I refer to myself in the first person as a hypothetical narrator in an academic discourse...

 

[CrimsonKing]

MODS - Make this a STICKY!

 

[maxellyz]

already stuck

-Max

 

[Japanese machine]

sweet post bro, we can ALL benefit from this.

 

[Dr.RobertBanner]

Great post man, thanks.

 

[Hauge]

excellent post bro. Very informative and now that summer is just around the corner and DNP seems to be the topic of conversation, this will help alot of us out.

 

[WannaImpress]

I have used DNP before for a prolonged period of time.....I liked the results but also lost a good amount of muscle. I am currently on 700mgs of test and 675mgs of fina a week, I'm playing with the idea of throwing in some DNP at a small dose for a few weeks (200-300mgs eod). Above you mentioned you can't grow any muscle while on DNP on high doses, is this also in reference to low doses for longer period of times?

Is it possible to gain muscle and at the same time lose fat while on DNP..remember I'm on 700mgs of test and 675mgs of fina a week !

 

[drrman]

GREAT POST< karma for you bro, i printed that

 

[Wrongun]

Good post Bro thanks for taking the time to write it as it will help many

Wrongun!

 

[smokinghawk]

Thanks, guys, and I appreciate the karma!

WannaImpress, that's correct. I neglected to consider DNP with AAS, although I was familiar with the possibilities--it just slipped my mind. I know guys who've used DNP to minimize fat gain (or even lose fat) while eating for bulk that way.

 

[Primal X]

Good supplement advise, but what about quecetin (sp?) for allegic reactions? Or will frontloading benadryl work fine?

 

[pumped55]

how often can you cycle dnp if you only use 200mg/day? I have done 2 cycles with excellent results 6 months apart and am wondering if it is unsafe for me to use this again, and what the time frame is that you should wait if it is safe for me to use again since it is so hard on your system. I have more but am wondering if i should just call it quits for awhile.

 

[smokinghawk]

I think how long between cycles is a matter of choice, EXCEPT if you've added T3 like a lot of people do now. Then you should give yourself full thyroid recovery, since that's the limiting factor on how effective a DNP run can be. But then we also get into picky questions like:

What if I use forskolin or guggul to recover the thyroid? Can I cut the waiting time before my next run?

Does how long my cycle is affect how long I should wait until next time?

Whatif I use bromocriptine to recover my metabolism afterward? (I'm going to be researching that question when I get back from vacation in a week or so).

Benadryl doesn't need to be front-loaded unless you already know DNP breaks you out. Epsom salt baths and extra ALA can also help with skin breakouts.

 

[smokinghawk]

Creating your own capsules

This is just a narrative of my own best experiences with this, for those who don't want to trust the capping of a source, or can obtain raw powder on their own. How you obtain that is up to you; I won't even hint at a source for it.

Another advantage to self-capping is that you can use useful filler instead of just corn starch. For example, I fill mine with 250mg DNP and the rest with fruit antioxidant powder--that's IN ADDITION to the caps full of fruit antioxidants I take 2-3x day anyways. Or you could use alpha lipoic acid, or grape seed extract, or ellagic acid, or whatever useful product you'd like.

While cap-m-quik machines are standard, I personally prefer another device from www.capsuleconnection.com called the "Capping machine," size 0. The reason is this: the capping machine will apply capsules tops automatically in a one-motion press of the top tray, instead of having to hand-apply each capsule top one at a time with the cap-m-quik. That minimizes spilled powder and doesn't exspose your hands to 50 individual opened capsules. Be sure to practice a lot of times first so you'll get the smooth, even pressure motion down. Otherwise you'll inevitably crush and break a few capsules. Hint: don't overfill them (too much filler squeezes rhe sides outward, making them harder to cap properly).

DNP will stain anything vivid yellow even in proximity; hands look like you've been drawn all over by a highlighter pen. I had no trouble removing most stains with a fast trip to soap and water, but protective gloves are essential. Regular latex examination gloves are cheap and easy to get; wear double layers. Surgical gloves are more expensive and harder to find, but better protection--a single pair will protect you (thanks, Elite bros, for this tip!).

You'll need a precise--PRECISE--scale. My choice; the MX-120 digital scale, $38 from www.americanweigh.com. Deering beam scales are also fine.

The capping machine makes 24 capsules at once. Here's how to make 24 capsules of 250mg DNP with other filler of your choice

This begins with exactly 6 grams of DNP, which will divide into 250mg (6/24). Each size 0 capsule holds about 300-500mg total, so you'll need about 8 grams total, so that means you'll add 2 grams of filler. I made a mix of exactly 6 grams DNP and 2 grams fruit antioxidants. These 8 grams fit PERFECTLY into the size 0 capsules with no leftover, creating 24 capsules of 350mg (volume and weight are different; even though size 0 says it'll hold up to 500mg, 8 grams of my powder was a precise fill).

I'll omit directions on how to operate the machine.

Each capsule weighed exactly 400mg total, including the gelatin cover, when it was finished. It took 5 minutes.

For a cap-m-quik, if you insist on using it, here are size 0 calculations:

50 capsules will take 10 grams of DNP, or exactly 200mg DNP per capsule. Since each capsule will actually hold 350-400mg, you'll need to add 7.5 grams of extra powder to create the 17.5 grams that will evenly fill 50 capsules at 350mg each.

Expect to lose a small amount of powder as you individually cap each capsule; this is neglibile and I'd just discard it.


Next installment: What research is there about whether DNP is safe? (I encourage ALL Elite friends who have research to add to this!).

 

[smokinghawk]

Is DNP safe?

Here's my research. This is AMAZING! Not only has not a single test found it to be carcinogenic, but test after tyest after test find that DNP actually ATTACKS cancer cells, and helps anti-cancer medications work better, and helps anti-leukemia medications work without destroying cell DNA, and suppresses tumor growth by 20-50%. The summaries are all right here, friends. Karma me up!

DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/

http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/dinitrop.html reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.

http://www.cyberiron.com/drugs/dinitrophenol.html reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don’t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you’re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.

http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. "These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate..." Duh.

http://www.zymed.com/pdf/04-xxxx/04-8300.pdf A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.

http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/workshop-methionina/anglesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

"Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats." Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.

"Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells." Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark.. This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with "toxic" defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know—it’s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).

"Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics." Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. "the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as…2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP)."

"Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors." Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out—DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. "Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure…"


"New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy."
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.

Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it’s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. "Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2'-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer…fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive." Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.

"Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity." Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it’s quite GOOD at it: "ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity…"

"Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro." Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP’s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.

"Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux." Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.

"Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol." Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates—or disrupts—cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.

"Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note." Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in "extensive DNA degradation." BUT (good ol’ DNP to the rescue!), "Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect…"

"[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]" [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. "Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml)."

"Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells." Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.

http://www.geocities.com/byggdegstor/dnpforside - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:

DNP does not cause liver damage: "Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment." (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l'homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation © 1996 Robert Ames)

Also: "Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube)."

"it doesn't seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys."

"Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system...dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart."

"Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine."

"dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms." (Professor Pouchet)."


Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.

 

[MrQuestion]

Good shit. I wish I can give you more karma.
I had to finish my DNP+bromo cycle early since I caught the stupid flu bug. Ill report my results soon with the details and skinfold measurements. I even did a horizontal measurement on my ab skinfold just for kicks on top of the vertical measurement. Can I get an "ooooh....ahhh" in here?

Let's just say that my theory is correct, well...on me that is And the fat was coming off really fast by the day.

 

[MrQuestion]

One thing I want to add. For the past several years, I always get the flu bug early into the summer, late spring for some reason. USually im very sick, feeling ulta shity, have a bad throat infection, headaches, etc.

This time around, I actually feel ok. I did 'stop' the bromo-DNP cycle to allow full recovery from my flu but this is the first time where Im not 'too' sick.

 

[MrQuestion]

Here is another one done by a doctor whom Dan Duchaine respected a lot and I think had learned DNP from.

If you look at the link, Doctor Nick done extensive tests on the kidneys, liver, etc. On the first issue of Dirty Dieting, Duchaine stated that none of the tests showed any damage to those organs.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...1&S1=4673691.WKU.&OS=PN/4673691&RS=PN/4673691

Case 1

A white female 31 years of age with a weight in excess of 200 pounds had attempted to loss weight with various diet plans. She had only been able to achieve about a 20-pound loss, and had immediately regained the weight. The patient was nulliparous and had no ongoing medical problems. Upon physical examination, she had a weight of 208.5 pounds, a height of 5 feet, 3 inches, and a blood pressure of 132/80, without any goiter. Laboratory analyses, including complete blood count, liver profile, serum electrolytes, kidney function tests and thyroid function tests, were all within normal limits. Because of her familial history of heart disease, she underwent a stress electrocardiogram which was normal other than early fatigue and calf cramping.

The patient was started on CYTOMEL brand of liothyronine sodium (manufactured by Smith, Kline and French), 50 mcg/day p.o., and on 2,4-dinitrophenol, 250 mg every other day p.o. On the 19th day of medication, the patient had normal vital signs and the dosages were increased to 100 mcg/day liothyronine, and 250 mg/day dinitrophenol alternated every other day with 125 mg/day. The patient was subsequently maintained on these dosages and returned for follow-up examinations approximately every 3 weeks. The weight loss history is seen in Table 1. After 241 days of medication, the patient has achieved her weight goal of 135 pounds. Administration of the dinitrophenol was discontinued and the patient was maintained on liothyronine, 100 mcg/day p.o. No weight gain was subsequently observed.

 

[rodd45]

great post!

 

[thalus]

not being funny or anything, but could thyis woman not have lost that weight on a ketogenic diet in a lesser time frame? That weight loss over that time period seems pretty pathetic for DNP.

 

[smokinghawk]

I think the best-kept secret of medical journals on DNP is that not only is it not carcinogenic, but it ATTACKS cancer cells, and strengthens the actions of anti-tumor/anti-cancer medications.

Gee, I wonder why the puppet-of-pharmaceutical-companies FDA doesn't want that known?

 

[GateKeeper]

smokinghawk

I've read that other guys get a rebound effect after coming off DNP. Have you ever heard of this and what can be done to curtail this rebound.

 

[MrQuestion]

Here is my version of the rebound when ceasing DNP.
*NOTE: This rebound is made specifically for me since I have shitty metabolism to begin with, so there are things I can not get away with that others may be able to. People should experiment with their diets and training to their needs to see what is best for them. But there are a few rulse to obviously follow

One more thing to mention, I am now on Bromocriptine. My theory on DNP+bromo enhancing fat loss turned out to be true (ill write a full report with caliper reading and all soon) on me, so Im hoping that fixing up a fucked up metabolism will turn out be true also.

THE REBOUND and METABOLISM

The rebound can definetaly be a wonderful thing to experience, depending on a few things. If you did a high dose amount of DNP (600mg +) while eating low calories, you will probably not only get an excellent rebound of muscle but of fat as well.

If you did a medium cycle of DNP (like around 400mg) with calories kept around 10-12kcal but with little to no aerobics, then you can expect a rebound with perhaps little fat but a good amount of muscle.

I think you may get my point now that DNP will lower your metabolism to a degree dependant on how much DNP and how low your calories were.

In many cases, you really dont have a choice but to take advantage of this golden oppurtunity even if it means a small fat gain. If you are going to continue to do more cycles of DNP, you need to get T3 back up as well as your metabolism.

DIET and TRAINING

I used to fuck up when it came time to taking advantage of the rebound. I would always gain a shit load of muscle but the fat would come along with it too. I got it right the last two times but it's been awhile since Ive done any other experimentation.

A few rules to follow if you want to take advantage of this window:

WEIGHT TRAINING IS CRITICAL
In the past, I foolishly have done no weight training for about a week after using DNP. THe end result? I gained more fat than I should have. Remember, weight training helps repartion calories, increases insulin sensitivity, etc..

DO NOT PIG OUT FOR TOO LONG-TRY TO KEEP TRACK OF CALORIES
By genetics, I have a shitty metabolism. Therefore I have to be more critical than the average person in keeping track of calories. Since Im usually fucking hungry at the end of each DNP cycle, there is no way in hell I can continue to eat low calories. With leptin levels crashing and my body is thinking that is nearing death due to starvation, food and carbs come in mind.

I would usually wait 36-48 hours of my last dose of DNP to do my carb up. The reason being is simple. If there was still a good amount of DNP in my system, it would be lost as heat without optimially refilling muscle glycogen. The last thing I want is some chemical in my body eating my candy and ice cream for me when I want to eat that myself (that was the weirdest sentence I have ever wrote btw) THen there is the issue with insulin being supressed and on and on the story goes.

Before my carb up, I would do a high volume workout on my upper body. THen I would start my carb up which would be around 500 calories over maintenance. So basically I would eat 3500 worth of calories mainly of high glycemic carbs. Bread, candy, low fat ice cream, cereal, etc. Ill keep protein moderetaly high and fat very low due to DNL (basically when fat converts to fat in the body at a certain threshold). Do a search here on refeed and Par Deus at the diet discussion board here or go to www.deja.com and type in Lyle McDonald+refeed there.

On the second day I would repeat the same thing, but lower body, high volume workout. Eat more carbs for the rest of the day.

On the 3rd-the rest of the week I would eat slightly below maintenance (Around 2500-2700 calories) mainly of protein, moderate carbs and fat. Grilled chicken, protein powder, and even a hamburger at a fast food resteraunt is what I mainly eat.

DUring this time, I would add in another workout.

If you want, you bros can replace the split session workouts with a full bodyworkout prior to the carb up. In fact, a full bodyworkout with a 24 carb up is all that may be needed. I believe that Andy13 wrote something in detail on what to do when ceasing DNP.

BROMOCRIPTINE

This is what Im very curious about when ceasing DNP. THis is what Im truly excited about. Can it repair a broken metabolism by following a few steps correctly? Ill report the results in a month or so once I gather enough date on myself. Many people have asked questions to me on bromo, so please go to QFAC.com to get the answers to your questions. I am not a guru nor am I a guru on this drug. I will report the results to everyone but things are looking 'very fine' so far.

My next test will be to do a 2 day carb up, followed by a 5 days of slightly above maintenance eating. Hoping for tons of muscle gain during this time with hardly no fat gain. We'll see i guess.

 

[MrQuestion]

One thing to add was supplements (on top of a daily vitamin intake with antioxidants). I think one would truly see the benefits of loading with creatine during this time simply for the reason that creatine stores are very low since DNP robbed that from you when you went on. I believe Duchaine said something to this effect too.

ALso, I think kicking up testosterone levels during this time would make a huge impact, so a quality prohormone like Par Deus' ONE or Molecularnutrition's 1 Ethergels would be great. I have yet to do a rebound with a prohormone but I would have to assume that it would be somewhat dramatic. Of course, you have the 'real' juice available then do that instead. I think this has been discussed by a few of the mods before, so a do a search you lazy asses.

 

[the mechanic]

How is the liquid form ( TEK ) measured out for proper dosages ?

 

[EngiCream]

How is the liquid form ( TEK ) measured out for proper dosages ?

That isn't DNP.....that's what you'd use if you wanted to clean a stain that DNP made.

Here's a quote from Animal on what it is

It's soap and then you use it to clean or disinfect counters or bathrooms.

you CANNOT use this for anything else!

 

[decadense]

This DNP shit will hit the fan very soon. Every desperate overweight person will want it once it appears on the news. And trust me, it will. And as always, where there is a demand there will be a supply. Kind of scares me even though I am really into personal freedom. And I do think natural selection is needed to strengthen the human genetic pool. It amazes me how much more bodybuilders know about fat loss techniques than the general public. More than anyone else. Times are changing fast. And something is building. Something incredible. I can feel it. Or maybe it's the alcohol I feel. Anyway, what was I saying?

 

[joey10j]

great post and thanks for sharing your personal experience.
can't wait for the 2nd installment of your knowledge

 

[BBBodie]

Hypothetically speaking....since DNP is shipped wetted to avoid shipping explosions, is it then to be dried prior to capping or ??? and if so, how so?

Also, in the capping post, what types of fillers specifically would you go shopping for down at ye ole vitamin world or such ?

For sake of discussion, if you can get it shipped in 200mg wetted vials, (premeasured) and you're taking 200mg the first few days would it make sense to break this down even further into 100mg caps so that a precise dosage (instead of increments of 200) were available in your arsenel?

Inquiring minds want to know,

Bo

 

[Fonz]

HOW TO NOT FUCK UP DNP:

Since some guys have been playing around and disrespecting DNP and then griping to the forums about the painful results, we need to make this VERY specific and VERY correct so that people won't keep jumping for DNP out of curiosity, or without the willpower they need to operate this respondibly. So here are my experienced guidelines to using it the RIGHT way.

FIRST GUIDLINE: Dosing. Use ONLY 200mg a day for the first four days. I don't care that you don't "feel" anything yet and you wanna bump it up. DNP accumulates in the body, and not "feeling" something means NOTHING. It's there, and it's working (the effect on metabolism begins within two hours of the first dose!). Four days will let you test your tolerance: do you have an allergy? Does it give you a rash? etc.
Only after those four days do you bump it up, by 200mg a day. The average dose is 400-600/day, and more than that gets a little severe. A full gram is the highest dose I've heard anyone use. I've used that much, and it's hell. I like to stay around 600 a day, which is HOT but safe and effective. Take caps even hours apart through the day, ending about 4-5 PM.

SECOND GUIDLINE...How to eat on DNP. This is purely personal experience, because some guys like to carb-deplete *before* using DNP (then eat carbs as usual while on), and other guys like a low-carb approach throughout. Both are fine. Using DNP is the only time that fructose is a desireable cutting carb, because it keeps the liver replentished. That reduces lethargy and spares muscle.
Be aware that eating high-carb foods WILL increase the heat sensation within an hour, and last about 2 hours. That means don't eat carbs before bed unless you want those night sweats to be even WORSE.
Personally, I ate whatever the hell I wanted! IHOP, chinese, fajitas...Yes, I burned hot, but I still lost 1.5 pounds every 2 days. Keep protein HIGH for muscles' sake, and try it yourself.

Foods I suggest including:
Blueberry yogurt. Blueberries are excellent antioxidants, and yogurt cultures help with digestive function, gas, and stool consistency (disgustingly soft stools are common during DNP).
Oregano-based foods. Oregano is perhaps one of the most potent antioxidants around,a nd one spoonful counts as a vegetable serving. See this article
Pineapple - I've found that pineapple helps alleviate those "DNP Blues". The fructose helps, and pineapple enzymes aid in protein digestion.
V8 - one 12-ounce can supplies six servings of veggies, concentrated as an excellent source of antioxidants, lycopene, and recovery of electrolytes.
Oatmeal - high-fiber foods are necessary. You'll find out why around, oh, day 5 or so. Trust me.


THIRD GUIDELINE...Supplements and DNP. I suggest:
ECA - DNP is not a stimulant. To keep energy high and aid in fat loss, use an ECA. Some advisors suggest that regular ephedrine is preferable to norephedrine because of the more direct "hit" of energy.
Prohormones - perfectly fine on DNP. I used 1-AD just to help keep strength and muscle up, and it worked fine. No problems here. You won't GROW muscle on DNP, but it'll help with strength and protection.
Obvious stuff - multivitamin, ZMA, etc.
Biotest PowerDrive - No, I'm not pimping Biotest. But PowerDrive is an excellent pre-workout mixture that actually works. Plus it's low-carb (only 15 calories total), so it won't cause carb-heat in the middle of your workout.

Antioxidants - I'm giving my own personal list, and why I use them:
Alpha Lipoic Acid - aids in fat management and blood sugar, and an excellent antioxidant.
Grape seed extract
Syntrax Radox
Green Tea
Inositol - mood enhancement, antioxidant, and muscle support. 1 gram/3x day
Ellagic acid - protects cell DNA/RNA from damage by free radicals, and may even atack cancerous cells. 400mg/twice a day
Fruit antioxidants - beyond-a-century's powder of high-potency natural fruit anti's. 1 gram, 2-3x day.
Trimethylglyceine - antioxidant, helps move fat and blood lipids into the liver and out of the body. 500mg, 2x day.
Vitamins E and C

Supplements NOT to use:
Any medications that suppress energy. No allergy meds, antidepressants, muscle relaxers, or beta blockers. DNP will have you low as it is; don't worsen your body's energy by taking something that suppresses you further.

DRUGS - Sheesh, you'd think I wouldn't have to mention this, but two idiots in particular (right here on this forum) recently affirmed that some people still just don't get it. NO alcohol (not even "moderate"), NO ecstasy, NO GHB, etc. If you don't have the willpower to forego these habits, DNP is not for you.

Syntrax Swole - a personal discovery. I tried Swole while on DNP...once. Two hours of hell, feeling inside-out.

FOURTH GUIDELINE...working out on DNP. Keep lifting short, 30-40 minutes. DNP works very well, causing your body to use 150% or more the calories per action you'd normally use. That means DON'T try to repeat your usual workouts. Drop to moderate weights, 8-12 reps, not to failure, and with plenty of walking rest between sets. You are NOT going to grow muscle on DNP, so don't use your usual heavy routine. Since DNP can cause light-headedness and heat dizzyness, you have my permission to skip squats in favor of leg presses this time.

Cardio is a controversial one. My advice - do NOT do cardio on high doses of DNP (600mg or more). It's dangerous and counterproductive. Below that amount, some cardio is fine, but keep it to 20 minutes and not at full-gallop. Remember, DNP will drain water from your quickly, causing you to leech out minerals, vitamins, and salts. Don't overdo it.

During exercise, consume at least 1 liter of water per 30 minutes of work, whether you're thirsty or not. DNP is evil in the way it blunts thirst, while at the same time doing the cruel trick of bloating your body with water WHILE dehydrating you from water in your organs. MAKE yourself drink. Always folllow DNP exercise with antioxidants, carbs, and this is a good time to use your multivitamin.

Don't feel embarrassed about poor workouts. Just this morjning I did a workout with a whopping nine sets (wimp!) before calling it quits. Listen to your body, and let it tell you when enough's enough; don't guage workouts by what you *usually* can do otherwise.


Next installment: designing your own DNP caps. Purely for information's sake. Posting any of this information is not an admission that I have ever used DNP; I refer to myself in the first person as a hypothetical narrator in an academic discourse...

Excellent compilation of DNP information I'll admit.

Just one thing I'd like to say;

The issue of night-time DNP cravings.

This is where MOST people screw up while on DNP. Sleep
is next to impossible without a massive carb-induced
serotonergic surge caused by a insulinemic spike.

(Laymans translation: You pig-out before going to bed)

There are really 2 approaches.

1. For ALL users.

Pondimin or Redux. Thats fenfluramine or Dexfenfluramine.
These are CNS depressing ANORECTICS. These 2 will
permit you to fall asleep while demolishing night-time cravings.

These pharmaceuticals work WONDERS let me tell you.
They can be the difference between a crap DNP cycle
and a GREAT DNP cycle.

2. For the more advanced.

GHB+Pondimin/Redux. This stack is more dangerous because
of the fact that the sodium based GHB can DEHYDRATE
you at night. Normally, not even remotely dangerous but
it only takes one person to make that statement erroneous.
The GHB will let you sleep while the pondimin will curb hunger.
The reason for this stack is that in some people pondimin/
redux is not a strong enough aid for sleep inducing purposes.

Fonz

 

[lpw]

Pondimin or Redux. Thats fenfluramine or Dexfenfluramine.
These are CNS depressing ANORECTICS. These 2 will
permit you to fall asleep while demolishing night-time cravings.

Are Pondimin or Redux OTC or prescription only? If OTC, are they sold at regular vitamin shops or only at specialty stores?

thank you.

 

[WCP]

My virgin DNP journal

It took me two years of reading before I ever attempted DNP, quite frankly it scared the hell out of me.

This is my accounts of my DNP exp. to date.

Days 1-6 200mg daily
Results: No real feeling of warmth until day 3 then only a little but didnt think much of it, but I had no allergic reactions.

Days 6-current. 400mg daily, one taken in the a.m. one in the p.m.
Results: Sweating pretty good now, especially at night, soaking my sheets. I seem to sweat maily throughout the chest and head area as these are the wettest places on the bed. No cardio at all, and not much of a desire to lift a finger or weight for that matter.

Im drinking about 2-3 gal. of water daily and staying very bloated, I have noticed no fat loss, although I know its happening, due to the retention but my bodyweight has dropped pretty rapidly. I came from 216lbs at 10%bf last week to 204 at God knows what now.

Ok my question now. I was under the impression that DNP dont really mess with muscle protein and is not that catabolic to muscle mass, is this not true?

Ive included a 20oz. sugary pop in leu of my normal diet soda at meals and this seems to really heat things up. Ive also noticed at least for me yams and pasta get it kicking very hard as well.

Im stacking it with an ECA 3x daily and 15mg of yohimbine hcl.

Im taking antioxidants, with alot of extra vit.C and vit.E, extra magnesium and of course zinc.

Does all this sound correct to those in the "know"?
This is my first cycle of DNP and I have to do it right.
Thanx,
WCP

 

[WCP]

Oh and getting to sleep has not been a problem but no matter what time of night I wake...IM AWAKE! and there is not much sleep after that.

peace,
WCP

 

[Fonz]

Re: My virgin DNP journal

It took me two years of reading before I ever attempted DNP, quite frankly it scared the hell out of me.

This is my accounts of my DNP exp. to date.

Days 1-6 200mg daily
Results: No real feeling of warmth until day 3 then only a little but didnt think much of it, but I had no allergic reactions.

Days 6-current. 400mg daily, one taken in the a.m. one in the p.m.
Results: Sweating pretty good now, especially at night, soaking my sheets. I seem to sweat maily throughout the chest and head area as these are the wettest places on the bed. No cardio at all, and not much of a desire to lift a finger or weight for that matter.

Im drinking about 2-3 gal. of water daily and staying very bloated, I have noticed no fat loss, although I know its happening, due to the retention but my bodyweight has dropped pretty rapidly. I came from 216lbs at 10%bf last week to 204 at God knows what now.

Ok my question now. I was under the impression that DNP dont really mess with muscle protein and is not that catabolic to muscle mass, is this not true?

Ive included a 20oz. sugary pop in leu of my normal diet soda at meals and this seems to really heat things up. Ive also noticed at least for me yams and pasta get it kicking very hard as well.

Im stacking it with an ECA 3x daily and 15mg of yohimbine hcl.

Im taking antioxidants, with alot of extra vit.C and vit.E, extra magnesium and of course zinc.

Does all this sound correct to those in the "know"?
This is my first cycle of DNP and I have to do it right.
Thanx,
WCP

Looks fine, except for one small thing.

GET SOME QUERCETIN ASAP.

Of little known fact is that after cessation of DNP, it is
common to break out in a rash. Hives/rashes often
occurr during a DNP cycle, and some people tend to think that
if they don't get any rashes/hives during their DNP
cycle they'll be OK. Well, this is just not the case.

1.5g Quercetin/day during and 3 weeks after a DNP cycle
will obliterate that problem quite nicely.

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

Are Pondimin or Redux OTC or prescription only? If OTC, are they sold at regular vitamin shops or only at specialty stores?

thank you.

Nope. Definately prescription and NOT AVAILABLE in the
US. They were pulled by the FDA after the Phen-Fen scandal.
Real sad, considering their the only CNS depressing
anorectics in existence.

Fonz

 

[lpw]

Fonz,

Thanks for the response. That would explain why I couldn't find them at GNC!

 

[cbeaks]

Fonz, I already have some ** Pondimin. I might order some redux for the extra appetite suppression. I don't know very much about redux. What are the side effects? How many mg of pondimin and redux would you suggest taking per day? - cbeaks

 

[icer2k]

is this a good list of stuff to use while on DNP?

ALA
A
B
C
E
Taurine
Pyruvate
Pottassium Gluconate
Magnesium
Calcium
Selenium
Iron

also..how long will it take for my T3 levels to get back to normal after 7 days on?

 

[Julez]

Intresting.

I wonder what peoples thoughts are regarding the time one should the time lapse between the last dose of DNP and taking E. Just once I took my LAST morning dose of 200mg, 15 hours later I dropped a pill, felt a bit hot 'coming up' but I was otherwise fine.

Having said that, I was on 600mg a day.

 

[JoNaThAnPeTeRs]

Intresting.

I wonder what peoples thoughts are regarding the time one should the time lapse between the last dose of DNP and taking E. Just once I took my LAST morning dose of 200mg, 15 hours later I dropped a pill, felt a bit hot 'coming up' but I was otherwise fine.

Having said that, I was on 600mg a day.

Good post, i am in the same boat, i work at night in clubs, and the temptation to do X or G is always there, not even to get f'd up, but to stay awake.....

i took 250mgs this morning, and felt like taking the other 250mgs 30 minutes ago, im going to do 10 days at 500mgs, and 3 days at 250mgs to taper off, my questions.....

why is it bad to do E when on DNP? it takes the water out of you, and if used in moderation, is it really that bad?? and yes, that is a serious question for all of you anti-party drug guys

is tapering needed for DNP as i listed before?

 

[Julez]

It's dangerous because DNP raises your body temperature big time, now you take E that does the same and your in trouble. Dehydration is on issue, but you can over heat and die, or have brain damage.

Personally I would leave it 24hours next time just to be safe(well safer).

Specially this weekend Friday night a Fluid I'll be doing the speed/x/k thing so I gotta be fit.

 

[thalus]

jeez some of you guys have a death wish. dropping a few X tabs ad taking DNP is highly dangerous. But feel free to kill yourselves, just make sure you get a relative to post some pictures of your fucked up corpse to rotten.com

 

[JoNaThAnPeTeRs]

It's dangerous because DNP raises your body temperature big time, now you take E that does the same and your in trouble. Dehydration is on issue, but you can over heat and die, or have brain damage.

Personally I would leave it 24hours next time just to be safe(well safer).

Specially this weekend Friday night a Fluid I'll be doing the speed/x/k thing so I gotta be fit.

thanks, ill play it safe i was just curious, i knew id get a response from mr anti-drug.....

what do you think about that taper idea im doing??

 

[smokinghawk]

It's dangerous because DNP raises your body temperature big time, now you take E that does the same and your in trouble. Dehydration is on issue, but you can over heat and die, or have brain damage.

Personally I would leave it 24hours next time just to be safe(well safer).

Specially this weekend Friday night a Fluid I'll be doing the speed/x/k thing so I gotta be fit.

Actually, DNP does not raise core temperature very much. It raises surface temperature, though, which is why you get the hot sensation. But when I use a digital thermometer to check, my body temp is only about .5 degree higher at a full gram of DNP.

 

[acneman]

no not yet

its gotta stay on top a little longer

 

[acneman]

damn sombody listened to me

im gettin respect

 

[Radical Ice]

Bumping a damned good thread!!