Debasser, Igor Vovchanchin

[b fold the truth]

Debasser, I was replying to your post when it got locked.

I hope that this makes some sense...I don't have much experience with cutting weight for anything...lol. Give me your thoughts...

Appreciate it...

B True

B fold with all due respect (and there is a lot of it trust me), that's not
quite what I was getting at. This is not a comparison of 2 guys with all
kinds of variables (including the supreme one: skill), one having a higher
bodyfat than the other. Igor Vovchanchin (sp), with his 20+% bodyfat would
mangle a young, ripped newcomer. But that's not what I'm saying at all.
Instead, consider this: which Igor would be better in the ring?

Igor before: 240 @ 20% bodyfat
Igor after: 240 @ 10% bodyfat

What possible advantage would the first one have? This is not Igor with 30
lbs more of fat that he can use as leverage as another fighter, this is him at
the exact same weight with considerably more muscle and strength.

I was simply questioning the reluctance of some fighters to drop fat and yet
remain in their weight class by replacing it with muscle. It could only lead

to a stronger fighter. 205lb 8% Tito Ortiz is going to be more of a force
than a 205lb 30% [hypothetical] version, for obvious reasons. Even if the
differences aren't quite that drastic, every little bit can count in the ring.

I ran a search on google about Igor...had no idea who he was. He appears to
be in very good shape and one heck of a MMA fighter!!!! You are right, the
person with the best skill should always win...no matter what the bodyfat%.

Igor with 20% bodyfat (a lot more than I think is healthy or productive), IF
he was in good shape...should fight fine. If he dropped his bodyfat % by 10%
and stayed at the same bodyweight...wow. Do you realize what that would
take? He would have gone from having 48 pounds of bodyfat to having 24 pounds
of bodyfat...he would have lost 24 pounds of pure FAT... and replaced it with
24 pounds of pure muscle!!!! Think about what that would take...


I am GUESSING that it would take about a year or more just to lose 24 pounds
of pure fat (maybe less...I dunno) IF he lost it without losing ANY muscle.
Now...think about how long it would take him to gain 24 pounds of PURE
MUSCLE. It would absolutely suck...lol.

Everyone that I know who has dieted for a bodybuilding show has felt like
total crap. I would not want to feel like crap and try to compete at
anything. If Igor could fight well at 20% bodyfat...what does it matter?

Chad Smith was about 6' and 390 pounds last year when he picked up an 800
pound Super Yoke on his back and took it 100' in 12 seconds flat. If he
BELIEVED that he would be faster at the events at 300 and 10% bodyfat...don't
you think that he would do what it took to get there???

Do long distance runners have ripped bodies like sprinters do? Is that diet
or genetics? Really...think about it.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

Just wanted to point out that I DON'T have the answers...but seek to find them.

B True

 

[b fold the truth]

Hope I haven't offended you man...seriously.

I've only played a few sports in my life so my experience is limited. Would really like to hear your input on this man...seriously.

B True

 

[Scotsman]

B True

I think that all atheletes are 50% genetics and 50% work. When I played football I was a 220 lb lineman who rean a 4.6 40. The other ld-lineman was 260 and ran a 4.5 40. Though I was smaller and leaner he was faster because of his genetics. I am assuming that since we trained the same. I was always stronger than him and he was always faster.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[Debaser]

Great points...

I would say that for MMA it would have to be a very slow, controlled process, because I'm not sure if they have off-seasons per se. I think being gradual would be the key. Maybe 100 calorie drop per week until a slight fat loss was obtained while maintaining strength levels. And then a modest bulking diet. This would require extreme discipline

It's easier for someone like me, who can diet all out and then bulk all out without much regard for consistant energy levels. Though I will be start training MMA/BJJ in a few months [probably] so I'm going to look into some popular methods at that time...

As disciplined as some fighters are, I'm not sure all of them could have the discipline when it comes to diet. I mean, I seriously doubt Igor counts calories or has precise ratios. I'm just saying going that slight extra mile may be beneficial in the ring. But it's all armchair theory on my end, I have no personal MMA experience.

BTW, Igor is a beast, checkout these fight highlights:

http://www.sherdog.com/download.cfm?dl=highlights/13-IgorVovchanchinHQ.zip

You have to click on the link and then wait for the d/l to start (or click the next link) so don't try save target as

 

[b fold the truth]

MMA is armchair theory on my end too...

I appreciate the reply though...learned a lot from the discussion actually...

How do you think that water manipulation affects performance in such sports??? It affects me greatly I think...

B True

 

[Thaibox]

I'm glad you restarted this topic on a clean thread b-fold. This was a decent topic until the thread turned into doo-doo.

think about how long it would take him to gain 24 pounds of PURE MUSCLE

Between 10 and 12 weeks b. I should point out that, although I've been out of the loop for a little while, juice is a prominant part of fighters diets. Just watch some fight tapes, when someone will be fighting at say a smooth 205...then 3 months later they're fighting at a solid 220 it doesn't take much guessing as to their methods.

That being said, taking Igor as our example, that "slight extra mile" as stated to lose the extra fat would be used to develop more strength by a smart fighter. Any decent fighter is doing so much cardio that he is already jeopordizing his valuable muscle tissue. Therefore, why would he want to cut his diet even more to add to this problem? This is of course assuming that the fighter has no interest in dropping weight for the purpose of maintaining a weight-class, but for strictly performance based purposes. Those few percentage points of fat are of no concern, especially if they have difficulty maintaining strength and/or muscle tissue already.

How do you think that water manipulation affects performance in such sports???

For me personally it was a HUGE factor in training.

Debaser,
Where/under whom will you be studying?

 

[Debaser]

I'm starting to begin my search on NHB/MMA schools in the area. I do know of one BJJ instructor, his name is Daniel [something Brazilian and hard to spell] who really knows his shit. I believe he is a 1st or 2nd degree black belt and has been training his entire life (mostly in brazil). He is a student under one of the Gracies but I can't remember which.

If I could find a MMA school in the KC area that would be awesome though

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Igor Vovchanchin just fought Bob Schriber (I think) in some mma event last week and was ripped at 215lbs. He's lost about 20lbs of pure fat it looks like. He looked a lot sharper physically and performed much better, as well.

 

[coolcolj]

basicly it boils down to this - put a weight vest on with 20lbs, does it make it easier or harder?

I know fat levels have hormonal relationships. But the main thing is most people disrupt their normal hormonal patterns to get lean and tend to lose muscle, and or overtrain. There is no reason to believe that with the correct approach to leaning up and resetting your fat level set point, you'd be worse off.

I know how I felt to be very lean many years ago with a 29inch waist (35 inch now) and I can tell you even though I'm far stronger and more explosive now, I don't have the "speed" I had back then. Every pound of non-functional mass you add on increases inertia that you have to move/brake when you acclerate, or change direction.
Power to weight ratios levels do increase exponetially with lowering bodyfat %. Hold a shotput in your hand and move it around, then compare it to tennis ball. That's what I'm getting at.
This is when your goal is propel your own bodyweight around that is.

Obviously getting shredded is not a natural setpoint, but go above that and you will find a happy area to be at.