Deadlifts..... should I, shouldnt I

[bigyin1314]

Been reading through a lot of the archives, and one thing that keeps on popping up is deadlifts. Currently my back/bicep day looks like:

All 4x8
Single Arm BB Rows
Pullovers
BB Rows
Bicep Curl
Preacher Curl

I'll be honest, am slight scared of deads, due to some lower back problems that I have. However, the more I look into it, the more I realise that I should probably be doing them.

My question is, should I replace one of the back exercises with deads, or should I add them to the routine. Also, if anyone knows of any good links to show proper form, that would also be a huge help. I'm thinking sumo's would prob be better for me, but if anyone has any better ideas, I'm all ears.

 

[Allon]

I was in the same position your are a few months ago and I decided to do them anyway. It was a good choice.

Add them on top of your current back routine, it is almost the same as mine and I feel I could do even more for the back apart from the deds, rows, pull downs and overs.

Here is the key to avoid injury:
Make sure you have a trainer help you do them at least the first 3 times you do them.
I am doing regular deads.
Go light. When I say light I mean...LIGHT. I mean, nowehere near max. Nowhere. Forget max, just don't think about it.
I started the first 2-3 weeks doing 3 sets of 5 reps with 5 pounds on each side of the pole. Get it? Light... Don't expect anyone who has not had a back injury to understand this. So don't even listen to anyone who thinks it is a pussy workout.
After those 3 weeks I changed the routine to 2 sets of slightly higher weight and am gradually adding weight. that is 2 sets of whatever reps between 6 - 15, cos no matter what, it will not be hard to do it. Ok, I will add more weight for the 6 reps (40 pounds each side by now) but I will do 1 - 2 sets max, maybe only one as for that I need 1-2 warmup sets also. And I will only do that weight 2-3 routines in a row and then up the reps and lower the weight for a few weeks.

Now here is the thing. I am making gains on wieght and size anyway, and... my back hardly ever hurts anymore. It is good for me, just the movement. But I really know that if I were to go anywhere near my limits, I would almost for sure injure myself so fuck it. I am making gains anyway so I am happy...

If you are asking to go ahead and do ded as I just explained then yes do it, it will be good for you almost for sure, as long as you stop doing them at the slightest pain.
If you are asking if to do deds like most people would or treat it like any other body part then my answer is NO.

KILL THAT SHIT (by doing it the right way for yourself)

 

[bigyin1314]

cool, will give it a try then..... with regards to form... links?

 

[long2821]

cool, will give it a try then..... with regards to form... links?

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html

 

[psychedout]

I do deadlifts every second backworkout, but thats just me. I have gone months without deadlifting, and the lift never seems to loose any strength.

IMO deadlifting tells you how good you are doing in the rest of your training. I'm not big on deadlifts -- the most I get out of them is a big set of traps.

 

[bignate73]

i agree. definitely add them in. even if its not that heavy for conditioning. your lower back health will thank you. your bent over rows will thank you. your squats will thank you, your functional day to day activities will thank you. lower back work is often overlooked in bodybuilding because its not a mirror muscle...but it can take you out of the game really fast!!

 

[curgeo]

Very True Nate.

The lower back and abdominals are the key to all strength training. The stronger you can make them, the more weight that can be transfered when doing lifts. Functional strength depends on making the lower back stronger.

You should also look at learning how to do goodmornings. I feel these are just as good as deads for your lower back, but they take the quad out of it. Deads are better for overall growth, but when just targeting the lower back I like good mornings.

I would also suggest dropping one of the rowing movements while keeping one.......and start adding some chinning movements. Pulldowns are okay, but chins will really put the width on your back. The rowing will thicken it up, but the back is a muscle that functions from many different angles. That is also why it so important to work the lower back with deads and GM's.

If you need any help, email me at [email protected]

 

[bignate73]

i love GM'S.

wouldnt substitute them for hyperextensions....EVER!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I really like stiff-legged deadlifts myself for low back strengthening using 10-15 reps.

Really like them with dumbells.

 

[Tweakle]

due to some lower back problems that I have

I have a blown out disc, I pull heavy and often. Work into it slowly and stay smart but don't ever sell yourself short for fear of reinjury

 

[curgeo]

Right tweakle.....When I was a bodybuilder I always seemed to injure my lower back.....Now that I switched to PL, I have yet to hurt it. All the injuries were due to my lower back weakness. The stronger you make it, the less chance of hurting it you have.


I'm with you on the GM's Nate. Have you ever tried doing 45 degree hypers with a bar behind your neck? We do these on ME day sometimes to work the back a bit more. Adding weight until you can do only 3 reps is pretty taxing.......We will also tie a band around the base of the hyperextension. There is no slack, tension is high at the bottom. Talk about getting a lower back pump!

 

[Allon]

Hehe... yuh. Work into slowly by building up lower back strength over a long time before going heavy as curgeo is talking about... if ever. Really there is no need as long as you strengthen the lower back why push it so far... it is not selling yourself short.
Don't expect people who have not has injury or even (sometimes) people who have overcome there injury to understand the dangers.

 

[curgeo]

Dangers of what allon? Strengthening your lower bacK? In my last post I was talking to Nate about the stuff I do.....NOT the things I am suggesting to bigyin.

I suggest to anybody to work their lower back......I also advise progressive overload which is what you were talking about before, but the advise that you shouldn't push your lower back to make it stronger is absurd, unless of course a Doctor has given you opinions or orders otherwise.

I would still like to know what dangers you are talking about.

 

[bigyin1314]

rightio, its def, will start deads on my next back workout (sunday). I dont train in a gym, have my own equipment in the house, problem is I dont have the ability to do pull ups/pull downs/chins etc. I'm already doing stiff leg deads for my hammies, an was alternating with Good Mornings, but found they really blew out my back, so switched back to stiff legs.

With regards to form on deads, have looked at the link (cheers long), is that the best method?? or am i better with a wider stance (sumo's).

Oh, and one more question if you dont mind...... obviously reading up a lot on deads, etc... they all comment on 'rounding your back'..... not quite sure what this means..... any enlightenment would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Allon]

Ok, I thought it was clear but I am talking about dangers of making the injury worse or having a disk erupt.
I am not saying not to make it stronger, I am saying that while doing so it is wise to take care and not push it too far. I am also saying that in order to strengthen the lower back you can do sets that are nowhere near your limits and still make gains and that is great so why push it with higher weights and more complex exersizes...
Thats all. I have met like two people in my life who train and that have not been injured and yet understand this. No-one else sees it. Thats ok, and I am just letting you know that if you have not been injured b4 I do not expect you to understand this concept.

 

[curgeo]

Goodmornings and deads are about the most basic of exercises there are. Like I said, the only back problems that I ever chronically had were due to the lack of strength in my lower back. I had disk problems, disk problems and like.....but they all got a million times better when I started to strengthen it. Do you realize that all day your lower back is held in a static contraction state? If your legs can squat 200lbs and your shoulders can hold 200lbs, but your back can only hold 100lbs.....what do you think is going to be the part where you get injured chronically?


bigyin, regular deads will hit the whole body pretty good. It will build a strong lower back and quads.............sumos will ht the hips and groin area hard as well as the lower back. Do whatever you feel comfortable with.

When the speak of rounding their back....it is not in the terms of which you might think. The LOWER back needs to keep an arch to it as much as possible. This will protect it and keep it from getting injured.

When powerlifters talk about rounding their back they speak of their UPPER back. It is a technique that is used to shorten the stroke to lift more weight on your dead. You arch your lower back, but roll you shoulders forward to drop your arms slightly so you don't have to lift as far. It helps if you have long arms and short legs.

Like allon said, start light. Have somebody show you proper techinque that you trust. Just make sure to keep that lower back arched HARD.

If you need more, email me at [email protected]

 

[Allon]

I agree with you Curgeo, my whole point was just to go slow, not to not strengthen the lower back, but to do it not greedily...

 

[bigyin1314]

Cheers lads.... I'll start with regular deads for a few weeks, then sumo's for a few weeks and try to determine which is better. I'll start light aswell, as you recommend, and hopefully my lower back strength will increase at a reasonable pace. Curgeo, ur right about the lower back being the weak point (well with me anyway).... when I squat heavy, its my lower back that gives out first, hopefully with a bit of work, my overall strength will increase.

Again, I appreciate the advice, nice to know people are willing to share knowlege. Last forum I was part of, everytime I asked a question, I was ridiculed for not knowing, an being new to this game (only been lifting consistently for 9 months now), that didnt help the old confidence levels. Luckily I found this site, and dont feel such a fool when asking now..... stay cool.

 

[bignate73]

ive never done the hypers with a bar across my back, but I have a GHR at home. if i ever get strong at those, I'll add some weight. LOL. i like seated GM's though.

 

[curgeo]

Oh man....They just got us a g/h raise at our gym........it took me years in order to do them off the floor when we didn't have one.

I finally can do them with some added weight....and I have to say they are the most humbling exercise I have ever done.

Seated gm's are a great exercise.....have you ever tried them with a wide stance? It wil really bring the hips into play. I have to make sure I do them this way.....my hips are a weak part of mine that needs to come up.

 

[bignate73]

i like wide stance gm's, the definitely bring the hips up. i do them med stance usually, and i'll go lighter and do them close stance for reps. my GHR always humbles me....

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I'm of the belief that you don't have to train the deadlift heavy and/or frequently to get strong at it as long as you do other exercises that work the same muscles, sort of like WSB principles (conjugate periodization I think).

I don't like to deadlift really heavy very often as it tends to make my mid-back sore. I do like doing strict DB stiff legged deads though on a weekly basis. They will make you strong when you gradually work up to heavy weights with them plus they aren't quite as taxing because obviously the weight is lighter than what you can do a pl style deadlift with.

Although if you like to do heavy deads regularly then you might as well. Some benefit from doing them all the time, and some like me benefit from doing them heavy every now and then while always progressing on other exercises that train the same muscles the deadlift uses.

 

[curgeo]

I usually train my deadlift through a variety of movements.

Week 1)Dead lift off 5" worth of plates
Week 2)Box squat high
Week 3)Low GM
Week 4)High pin pull

This has been my rotation for a good 2 months and I have seen some improvement in my dead. I am going to start adding some more speed pulls on speed day at 50 percent for 1 rep to help my explosiveness. I usually do a low box on speed days of 10 inches.....it has helped me out of the hole a bit more.

I understand what you are saying ghetto.....but most of these kids on the forum are looking for ways to get big quick. I usually just assume they are into bodybuidling unstead of functional strength until they tell me otherwise.

Thank you for your advise. I love talking powerlifting!

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I'm not really a powerlifter because I don't compete, at least not yet, but hey, I've only been back training for 3 months lol, duh. Maybe in a year or 2.

I do pretty much train like a powerlifter though with maybe a little more assistance work than some pl'ers.

For me, I want to be YOKED, CUT and VERY strong. I want to look like I can bench +500lbs, squat +800lbs, and deadlift 700+ and actually be able to do it. That is my end goal and will require many years of hard work, but it'll come.

I put strength and size at about 50/50. They are both equally important to me so I train for both at all times sort of.