Chest and Shoulders??

[RedBird21]

Hey fellas got a couple questions for ya. I just changed up my split and am now doing Chest with Shoulders because every other split ive tried has worn out my shoulders too much. Anyway I'm wondering how many sets I should do on shoulders and what exercises I should focus on to promote growth.

I usually do about 12-14 sets of chest:

3 Flat bench
3 Incline
3 Decline
3 Cable Crossover
2 DB press/Pull over

I'll probably cut this down to 12 when I add shoulders. My shoulders should be gettin a lot of work from the chest workout so how many sets do you think I need to really work them? Any advice and oppions would be appreciated. Thanks bros.

 

[trez]

I'd definately be looking at cutting back on some of the chest stuff... purely because you might be overtraining.

Press behind necks are my favourite exercise for shoulder strength but I'm still a bit of a noob so I'm regurgitating from those bigger and better than myself =)

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

yeah, i would knock off the declines and db presses and focus more on bench or incline. incline hits my shoulders like a ton of bricks.

 

[westfieldkid]

When you do shoulders do you include your traps, or do you do traps with another body part:

Here's my workout

4 Flat bench (one warmup) I prefer dumbells. (12,10,8,6)
3 Incline 10,8,6
3 Weighted Dips 10, 8, 6
3 Flys 10,10,10

3 Shoulder Dumbell Press 10,8,6
3 Behind neck Military 10,8,6
3 Front Raises with a 45 lb plate 10,10,10 (concentrate on Form)
3 Side Lateral raises 10,10,10

i do shrugs with back.

 

[cwick0]

If you are going to pair chest and shoulders together, i would tweak your workout some. GET RID OF THE DECLINE BENCH.

3 working sets on Flat barbell bench
3 working sets of Incline dbs
2 DB press (this may be too much for your shoulders after doing incline)
2-3 sets of side (lateral) raises, all sets of 10
2-3 sets of rear delt raises, all sets of 10
shrugs if you have anything left in the tank.

Every 3-4 weeks do incline bench first with barbell, then do flat with dbs or barbell.

 

[RedBird21]

Alright, thanks for the input bros. I'm wondering why everyone suggest getting rid of the decline presses? I've always thought it was best to hit every area of the chest? But I guess thats too much pressure on the shoulders?? What about this. . .

Flat Bench 3 sets
Incline DB Press 3 sets
Flat Bench DB press 2 sets
Cable crossover 2 sets

Military Press 3 sets
Lateral Raises 2 sets
Rear Delt Raises 2 sets

I'd really like to keep hittin my chest with 10-12 reps if at all possible. I do Traps on my back day. For some reason I just always feel like i'm gettin a lot better workout when I hit chest with atleast 12 sets. I just don't know how many more sets are needed to get the shoulders a good workout. Thanks bros.

 

[TRUEsoldier]

If you are going to pair chest and shoulders together, i would tweak your workout some. GET RID OF THE DECLINE BENCH.

3 working sets on Flat barbell bench
3 working sets of Incline dbs
2 DB press (this may be too much for your shoulders after doing incline)
2-3 sets of side (lateral) raises, all sets of 10
2-3 sets of rear delt raises, all sets of 10
shrugs if you have anything left in the tank.

Every 3-4 weeks do incline bench first with barbell, then do flat with dbs or barbell.

Amen brotha about the decline!!!

I would do
5x5 incline press
2x8-10 flat db press
2x8-10 incline db fly

5x5 arnold db press
2x8-10 lateral raises
2x8-10 rear delt raises

that should be enough

Peace

 

[cwick0]

Amen brotha about the decline!!!

I would do
5x5 incline press
2x8-10 flat db press
2x8-10 incline db fly

5x5 arnold db press
2x8-10 lateral raises
2x8-10 rear delt raises

that should be enough

Peace

I originally had flyes in the routine i posted, but i thought that may be too much front delt work. Plus shrugs need to be integrated in somewhere, unless deads are being done on a regular basis.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

If you are going to pair chest and shoulders together, i would tweak your workout some. GET RID OF THE DECLINE BENCH.

3 working sets on Flat barbell bench
3 working sets of Incline dbs
2 DB press (this may be too much for your shoulders after doing incline)
2-3 sets of side (lateral) raises, all sets of 10
2-3 sets of rear delt raises, all sets of 10
shrugs if you have anything left in the tank.

Every 3-4 weeks do incline bench first with barbell, then do flat with dbs or barbell.

makes good sense to me

 

[ChinkNasty]

if you want a separate shoulder day, this is my shoulder day and it's done wonders for me (it's also made my traps explode):

Barbell Clean and Press 3x6 or 4x5
Db Lateral Raises 3x12
Heavy Upright Rows 10, 6, 4, failure
Push Presses 6, 4, 2

 

[cwick0]

if you want a separate shoulder day, this is my shoulder day and it's done wonders for me (it's also made my traps explode):

Barbell Clean and Press 3x6 or 4x5
Db Lateral Raises 3x12
Heavy Upright Rows 10, 6, 4, failure
Push Presses 6, 4, 2

Dont forget about your rear delts!

add a couple of sets in after your lateral raises, they will only continue to add to your overall shoulder development

 

[mad_monkey59]

Okay bro... I don't know about yourself but I found that pairing shoulders up with anything was not a good idea in terms of rest, as shoulders are used for both back and chest. Also, I found I was doing a stupid amount of sets in one workout to target all three heads of the delt and the major bodypart effectively. All bodyparts except traps that is. Your traps are like the supporting muscle for your shoulders, much like biceps to back etc.

So you have two options.

Split your shoulder parts up.

Anterior Delt with chest
Posterior Delt with back
Medial Delt with Legs of Arms... or

Train your shoulders with your traps.

This way you need less sets to target your traps effectively, and you can use upright rows as a compound exercise which will target both muscle groups very well.

I couldn't stand training my shoulders with anything other then traps, it might be okay for you... I hope this will help you out if you hate it as much as I did. lol

 

[yomama]

I do about 15sets for chest. I do incline every other week, same goes for shoulders, every other week, otherwise I'd be overtraining them.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

all you need are deads for traps..
most Pl'ers have very big traps im positive they do not do much for them occasionally shrugs thats it

 

[mad_monkey59]

all you need are deads for traps..
most Pl'ers have very big traps im positive they do not do much for them occasionally shrugs thats it

They don't need much work, no. But still, mine respond best with a bit of encouragement, as do most others, the worst thing to do is neglect a bodypart... expecially if you don't deadlift.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

They don't need much work, no. But still, mine respond best with a bit of encouragement, as do most others, the worst thing to do is neglect a bodypart... expecially if you don't deadlift.

the worse thing you can do is overtrain each bodypart which most people do

 

[mad_monkey59]

the worse thing you can do is overtrain each bodypart which most people do

Well, but not training any bodypart will lead to atrophy and no progress at all.
In such terms neglecting your training has much the same effect as overtraining, ie, no progress etc.

But you will not overtrain with what I have suggested. If you simply rely on deads to do work your traps the chances are you are neglecting that bodypart, which in the given situation is a bad idea.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Well, but not training any bodypart will lead to atrophy and no progress at all.
In such terms neglecting your training has much the same effect as overtraining, ie, no progress etc.

But you will not overtrain with what I have suggested. If you simply rely on deads to do work your traps the chances are you are neglecting that bodypart, which in the given situation is a bad idea.

not true..deads have given me pretty decent traps occassionally ill do some shrugs but i dont need to ..im not going to argue..im done

 

[JohnRobHolmes]

how to split the shoulders has been on my agenda every time i think about lifting. what i have finally settled on is this.

front shoulders with pushing day. cant do it any other way. medial head gets some work too, so i throw in the lateral raises on pushing day.

rear delts are hit with pulling. with the right form and focus you can get a killer pump in them with upright rows and low rows. just pull from the elbows. for extra flair i finish with some lateral type raises, but the chest is hollow, thumbs are down, and the shoulders are turned forward and i lean just a bit. it hits that rear head like nothing else. keep the arms slighty bent, and dont raise the arms much past 45 degrees or you risk impingment.

works hella good for my split. traps go with back, because they are part of the back and military presses dont really do as much as rows IMO

i do dips instead of decline. push three ways, pull opposite three ways.

 

[RedBird21]

Good advice bros.. I think I am goin to do front and medial delts with chest, and save rear delts for my back and traps day. Thanks again, I think this will help a lot.

 

[H_T_]

What about upright rows? As long as you keep your elbows in front of your body. And, hey, try doin' some cleans, with a barbell or dumbells. DB's are harder cuz you have to pull the weight a lot higher and the traps aren't as involved.

 

[cwick0]

the worse thing you can do is overtrain each bodypart which most people do

ESPECIALLY THE FRONT DELTS.

They get killed with bench, shoulders, and with some tri work. Hence i wont do chest and shoulders.

 

[cwick0]

What about upright rows? As long as you keep your elbows in front of your body. And, hey, try doin' some cleans, with a barbell or dumbells. DB's are harder cuz you have to pull the weight a lot higher and the traps aren't as involved.

bench + upright rows = no extra front delt work!

Just keep hitting lateral and rear raises so they dont fall to far behind your front delts and hopefully this will prevent those dreaded shoulder injuries.

 

[Debaser]

I don't want to get all preachy, but...

Can we just call a mortorium on the need to do all these redundant exercises? Why must a trainee do so many different movements for just the chest or delts?

A bench press with a slight incline (15 degrees or so) will activate the pecs COMPLETELY, so why must someone use other exercises that are either redundant or less efficient?

I will celebrate the day when bodybuilders worldwide start moving away from all these antiquated principles. Probably on the same day Weider is lowered into a vat of boiling feces in hell.

 

[RedBird21]

ESPECIALLY THE FRONT DELTS.

They get killed with bench, shoulders, and with some tri work. Hence i wont do chest and shoulders.

I'm doing chest with shoulders for that exact reason. If I am hittin chest and then 3 or 4 days later hittin shoulders then 3 or 4 days later hittin chest again, thats too much wear on my shoulders. I'm going to do my 12 sets of chest and then hit 4-6 sets on the front and medial delts. This should allow me plenty of time to recover before my shoulders get hit again.

Heres my split

Day 1: Chest, Front and Medial Delts
Day 2: Back, Traps, Rear Delts
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Triceps, Abs
Day 5: Biceps, Legs
Day 6: Off

 

[cwick0]

I'm doing chest with shoulders for that exact reason. If I am hittin chest and then 3 or 4 days later hittin shoulders then 3 or 4 days later hittin chest again, thats too much wear on my shoulders. I'm going to do my 12 sets of chest and then hit 4-6 sets on the front and medial delts. This should allow me plenty of time to recover before my shoulders get hit again.

I agree with you that your shoulders should be recovered, but you dont feel a little exhausted before you get to them?
What is the need for the extra front delt work when they get enought work from your 12 sets of chest. Why not switch them with rears as to have more balanced and rounded shoulders?

 

[RedBird21]

I agree with you that your shoulders should be recovered, but you dont feel a little exhausted before you get to them?
What is the need for the extra front delt work when they get enought work from your 12 sets of chest. Why not switch them with rears as to have more balanced and rounded shoulders?

I hear what you're sayin. I think I'm just real paranoid that I'm not hittin the shoulders enough to promote growth. I'm sure I am, but my worst habbit is overdoing it. It just seems like they need to be isolated a little to really get them to reach full potential. I don't think I can just not do any front delt work. Maybe I can make myself cut down to 3 sets of db press after my chest workout. I'd really prefer leaving rear delts with back and trap day.

 

[phasar]

i don't focus so much on the routine as i do the muscle group. i usually rotate delts and pecs on the same day. which means to say that if i am doing delts first, my bench press will not truly be my best since my anterior delts are already fatigued and the tri's are bit fatigued too.

if u can handle what u think others might be thinking of you, then it should be ok. if someone can maximum bench press 250lbs. but if they annihilate their delts b4 going inot pecs, they might only be able to do 180lbs max on the bench now.

so basically your chest workout on a day like this is only to keep yourself tight, so that next week when you will be doing chest first , you will be able to really blast away.....

 

[cwick0]

I hear what you're sayin. I think I'm just real paranoid that I'm not hittin the shoulders enough to promote growth. I'm sure I am, but my worst habbit is overdoing it. It just seems like they need to be isolated a little to really get them to reach full potential. I don't think I can just not do any front delt work. Maybe I can make myself cut down to 3 sets of db press after my chest workout. I'd really prefer leaving rear delts with back and trap day.

Sorry, i didnt realize you were hitting rear delts and traps with back.

 

[TRUEsoldier]

Well i think all you guys are to damn paranoid IMO!!!

every muscle gets worn the hell out when you are emphasising another muscle! You cant get around it, you just have to deal with it! Tri's are your prime example! they get hit with just about any pushing movement! so again, dont worry about it, just dont do a thousand sets of a given muscle! If you usually do 12-15 sets, cut it down to 9 and you'll be fine! but that is just my .02

and debaser!
The problem with ONE "perfect" movement for a muscle, is it gets redundant fast! What is the biggest way to get unmotivated to work out you say? I'll tell you, and that is doing the same movement over and over again! Variety is the key...Slight incline bench might be the "Best" exercise for bench, but it like tuna, gets bland after awhile!!! but again that is just MO

Peace