Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up now!
- Thread starter BionicBC
- Start date
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
Use the barbell as the default. You can't use as much weight on dumbells and it's a lot harder to increase them incrementally i.e. you have to go up 5lbs in each hand so 10lbs minimum increase, if you are using 50's that's a 10lbs increase on 100lbs total so 10% - rediculous.
Czar87 said:
Use the barbell as the default. You can't use as much weight on dumbells and it's a lot harder to increase them incrementally i.e. you have to go up 5lbs in each hand so 10lbs minimum increase, if you are using 50's that's a 10lbs increase on 100lbs total so 10% - rediculous.
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
Dual factor is not a program. It's a theory of how the body works. All exercise is dual factor in reality but generally one is talking about higher levels of workload to manipulate fatigue. Fatigue is systemic, you can't think about it in bodyparts. Makes no sense. What you should do for bis and tris is to focus on lifts that really matter (presses and rows) while throwing in a few sets of direct work each week and trying to get better at it.
Czar87 said:
Dual factor is not a program. It's a theory of how the body works. All exercise is dual factor in reality but generally one is talking about higher levels of workload to manipulate fatigue. Fatigue is systemic, you can't think about it in bodyparts. Makes no sense. What you should do for bis and tris is to focus on lifts that really matter (presses and rows) while throwing in a few sets of direct work each week and trying to get better at it.
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
Sounds like whatever you are doing for running is having an impact on your leg power. Maybe you are doing something new? No real answer but if you squat continues to deteriorate and progression becomes impossible, you'll obviously have to deal with it.
Protobuilder said:
Sounds like whatever you are doing for running is having an impact on your leg power. Maybe you are doing something new? No real answer but if you squat continues to deteriorate and progression becomes impossible, you'll obviously have to deal with it.
Madcow,
I had a journal on Elite covering my 1st dual factor attempt and made it to the 8th week but due to a strained quad or hip flexor I've had to lay off (injury from bball not lifting). I just wanted to touch base and let you know the results I've seen post DF 5x5.
In the last week of Dec the pain was too much and I decided to stop everything leg related and rest for about 1 to 1.5 months - by the end of Jan my hip was feeling much better and I decided to do some light running and swimming one day - bad idea - I started getting pain all over again although not as severe - after consulting a physician they said rest at least one more month - typically, I understand it's 6/8 weeks for soft tissue to heal and then you have to start light.
At any rate, I kept lifting upper body and went back to 1 to 2 body parts a day which I did not want to do because I don’t get nearly as much out of it but am limited at the time - while it has been frustrating and depressing (seriously depressing to the point where I am completely unmotivated and count the minutes at the gym each day) I have seen some of the benefits of the 5x5 (sorry these are not body measurements but I kept track of things based on rep/weight):
- my bench went from STRUGGLING for 2 reps at 275 to 4.5 without much issue and I feel like I could hit 5 to 5.5 very soon.
- my back is stronger although it's not showing in pull-ups as much (stuck at 10 for wide but narrow are up to 12) it is showing when doing bent-over db rows (100 lbs is no problem and would do more if the gym had them) - hammer strength pull-downs are also way up
- bi's and tri's have shot up immensely as 135 barbell curls are not difficult and weight dips with 45 for 3 sets of 10 is getting easier
Some of the odd things I’ve noticed since doing the 5x5:
- my legs actually thinned up a little - my strength was up, but they are smaller, it's like the fat started to leave - I didn't realize I had much fat in them but apparently I did
- the same goes with arms, they are skinnier - ESPECIALLY my forearms, but the strength is up
One major negative is that since I stopped doing the 5x5 and am stuck with hitting the upper-body is that since you use arms for almost everything, they are exhausted and I need to start taking at least one day off every other week. If you have any ideas on any other routines I can do while waiting this injury out, please let me know.
Thanks for all of your help with this and I look forward to using the 5x5 DF theory again.
I had a journal on Elite covering my 1st dual factor attempt and made it to the 8th week but due to a strained quad or hip flexor I've had to lay off (injury from bball not lifting). I just wanted to touch base and let you know the results I've seen post DF 5x5.
In the last week of Dec the pain was too much and I decided to stop everything leg related and rest for about 1 to 1.5 months - by the end of Jan my hip was feeling much better and I decided to do some light running and swimming one day - bad idea - I started getting pain all over again although not as severe - after consulting a physician they said rest at least one more month - typically, I understand it's 6/8 weeks for soft tissue to heal and then you have to start light.
At any rate, I kept lifting upper body and went back to 1 to 2 body parts a day which I did not want to do because I don’t get nearly as much out of it but am limited at the time - while it has been frustrating and depressing (seriously depressing to the point where I am completely unmotivated and count the minutes at the gym each day) I have seen some of the benefits of the 5x5 (sorry these are not body measurements but I kept track of things based on rep/weight):
- my bench went from STRUGGLING for 2 reps at 275 to 4.5 without much issue and I feel like I could hit 5 to 5.5 very soon.
- my back is stronger although it's not showing in pull-ups as much (stuck at 10 for wide but narrow are up to 12) it is showing when doing bent-over db rows (100 lbs is no problem and would do more if the gym had them) - hammer strength pull-downs are also way up
- bi's and tri's have shot up immensely as 135 barbell curls are not difficult and weight dips with 45 for 3 sets of 10 is getting easier
Some of the odd things I’ve noticed since doing the 5x5:
- my legs actually thinned up a little - my strength was up, but they are smaller, it's like the fat started to leave - I didn't realize I had much fat in them but apparently I did
- the same goes with arms, they are skinnier - ESPECIALLY my forearms, but the strength is up
One major negative is that since I stopped doing the 5x5 and am stuck with hitting the upper-body is that since you use arms for almost everything, they are exhausted and I need to start taking at least one day off every other week. If you have any ideas on any other routines I can do while waiting this injury out, please let me know.
Thanks for all of your help with this and I look forward to using the 5x5 DF theory again.
Last edited:
On wednesday on single factor you can either do incline bench or military press...could you do both so:
light squat
deadlift
military press
incline bench
would this be ok as my chest is weak and need to hit this but shoulders also lagging and military press is great exercise?
light squat
deadlift
military press
incline bench
would this be ok as my chest is weak and need to hit this but shoulders also lagging and military press is great exercise?
Re: Bill Starr's 5 x 5 program... Variation per Madcow2 (thanx) So here it is! K up n
No. This is what's wrong with most people's workouts. They want to do everything all at once and just like in life, you can't get really good at 30 different things at once. Incline involves a ton of shoulder work as does all pressing and rowing. Choose one and go with it. It's just a training cycle, not a lifetime commitment. Another option if you have an adjustable bench and rack, change flat to slight incline presses - so less than the standard degree but not full flat and then do standing military.
hspadda said:
No. This is what's wrong with most people's workouts. They want to do everything all at once and just like in life, you can't get really good at 30 different things at once. Incline involves a ton of shoulder work as does all pressing and rowing. Choose one and go with it. It's just a training cycle, not a lifetime commitment. Another option if you have an adjustable bench and rack, change flat to slight incline presses - so less than the standard degree but not full flat and then do standing military.
Guinness5.0
New member
hspadda:
I think you may be very pleasantly surprised by better overall chest development from just running a solid program. I found that doing the program with just flat bench and standing military didn't hurt my symetry/balance one bit - if anything it's improved. I know it sounds like I'm so sold on it that I'd say anything
, but I swear it's true.
For now I only do incline stuff for fun or if I want to press w/out involving my lats as much. So I'd advise that you try it and see. Like madcow said, it's not a long term commitment and you'll find out soon enough if what held true for me holds for you also.
I think you may be very pleasantly surprised by better overall chest development from just running a solid program. I found that doing the program with just flat bench and standing military didn't hurt my symetry/balance one bit - if anything it's improved. I know it sounds like I'm so sold on it that I'd say anything
, but I swear it's true.For now I only do incline stuff for fun or if I want to press w/out involving my lats as much. So I'd advise that you try it and see. Like madcow said, it's not a long term commitment and you'll find out soon enough if what held true for me holds for you also.
Protobuilder
New member
hspadda said:
Do you mean your chest is weak, as in "not strong"? Or do you mean it's not very big and you'd like it to be big? I bet your talking about the latter. Now, be honest -- is your chest bizaarely behind the rest of your body or are you just chasing the beach muscle "big chest & guns, get laid" look? Because I don't know ANYBODY who has a small chest but huge quads, hammies, lower back, lats, etc. My point is this -- work on adding muscle to your body PERIOD. Don't worry about prioritizing your chest with this program. Just follow it. The more crap you throw in, the harder it is to reach this program's goals. Do the program. And LEARN. And if someday you think your chest hasn't grown enough, you can prioritize it. But first, add some muscle all over.
Similar threads
- Locked
