Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Barry! How's That ObamaCare Thing Working?

Things will get worse before it gets better

If it ever gets better

Real UE rate over 10% with obamacare just now putting its toes in the water
 
1) Between cancelled policies and the jobs he's destroyed (including jobs he's forced into part-time positions), I guesstimate that about 25-45 million less people will not have health care than before ObamaCare.

B) The people that enroll in BarryCare will be vastly more sick than the original CBO estimates say. Here's my prediction for the hole that it will blow in the deficit (incremental cost, beyond our already huge deficit). And yeah, this is just an educated guess:

------ 1) 2014: $200 billion
------ a) 2015: $350 billion
------ D) 2016: $500 billion
------ 5) 2017: $750 billion

Good times
 
Not to mention the young healthy people that arent signing up to pay for all the sick older people. The pyramid scheme that will never get built

There was a documentary made called Obamas America 2016 or something

Think i might check it out now that were stuck with him
 
That's what will blow the hole in the budget -- all the healthy(er) people who don't sign up.

The numbers just don't add up. You can't pile-on millions of would-be uninsurable people and ask 18-30 year olds to subsidize them.
 
Whos the genius that thought all the 18-30 year olds would run out and buy insurance when the UE rate is 10% and theres nothing but low paying part time jobs and the labor force participation rate is lowest since 1978???

If young healthy broke people have to choose between rent, food, gas....or health insurance, guess what wins everytime
 
That's the really cynical thing about what they're doing. It doesn't take a Nobel Laureate economist to figure-out this wouldn't work. Really anyone who is grounded in reality and working in health care would know this was going to be a disaster.
 
2afh9cj.jpg
 
I ain't signing up for shit. last time I checked this was merica. if someone doesn't want something why the fuck should they be intimidated to get it. I ain't paying no feez either for not signing up. I'm putting a sign on my lawn that says "come at me bro"
 
mustang_00 said:
I ain't signing up for shit. last time I checked this was merica. if someone doesn't want something why the fuck should they be intimidated to get it. I ain't paying no feez either for not signing up. I'm putting a sign on my lawn that says "come at me bro"
Click to expand...

watch out for the drones targeting your house bro
 
Since Obama's goal is and always has been to destroy america id say obamacare is right on track.

Sent from my Z750C using EliteFitness
 
mustang_00 said:
I ain't signing up for shit. last time I checked this was merica. if someone doesn't want something why the fuck should they be intimidated to get it. I ain't paying no feez either for not signing up. I'm putting a sign on my lawn that says "come at me bro"
Click to expand...

mine is gonna say, "my AK gotta hair trigga, nigga don't make me comb it"
 
mrplunkey said:
But if you like your current insurance, you can keep it.

And the average family's health care cost will go down $2,500 per year.

And it won't add a cent to the deficit!!!!

Now who in the hell actually thought any part of that was true? You've got to want to believe bunch of lies like that to fall for them.
Click to expand...

We just print more money, raise the debt ceiling indefinitely, borrow from china/india/nextsuperpowerthatdoesntlikeus
 
Amid the policy cancellation process, I think it's funny how people have overlooked the 85% medical loss ratio on insurance.

Let's logic this out:

A CEO of an insurance company collects $1B in premiums. So according to this new law he can only spend $150M on overhead, administration and profit. The other $850M has to go to claims.

So next year... does the CEO want to pay out more or less in claims?

Scenario 1: He figures out how to lower the overall cost of delivery by better integrating care. Instead of $850M in costs it now costs him $700M.

Congratulations -- he just took a ($850M-$700M) * 0.15 = $22.5M pay cut. Good times.

Scenario J: He signs-off on every new technology and treatment that will increase costs, and tries to fragment care even further. Instead of $850M in costs it now costs $1000M

Congratulations -- he just got a ($1,000M - $850M) * 0.15 = $22.5M pay raise. Better times.

So which one would you do? This is just cost-plus healthcare (pre-1983 technology), wrapped in a bullshit message of "We're going to stick it to insurance companies."
 
Word from a group of US Democratic Congressmen is that Nany-Ann DeParle (Nancy-Ann DeParle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) who was his director of Health Care Reform (his top WH official on Obamacare) explained to Barry multiple times both orally and in written form that millions of people would lose their current plans. She also explained in detail how people would lose their doctors and their health care premiums would dramatically rise.

She was vetoed by the political arm of the White House.

A Republican-controlled house committee is preparing a subpoena for her now. There are a number of prominent Democrats who are afraid the American people will find-out that Barry knew everything and went forward with the plan anyway.

Good times!
 
mrplunkey said:
Word from a group of US Democratic Congressmen is that Nany-Ann DeParle (Nancy-Ann DeParle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) who was his director of Health Care Reform (his top WH official on Obamacare) explained to Barry multiple times both orally and in written form that millions of people would lose their current plans. She also explained in detail how people would lose their doctors and their health care premiums would dramatically rise.

She was vetoed by the political arm of the White House.

A Republican-controlled house committee is preparing a subpoena for her now. There are a number of prominent Democrats who are afraid the American people will find-out that Barry knew everything and went forward with the plan anyway.

Good times!
Click to expand...


Dems suck!

Unless they're buying you fresh salmon salads :RADAR:
 
A few hacks break into a hotel in the early 1970s: "What did he know and when did he know it"

A few million people lose their health coverage and millions more premiums increased: "What did he know and when did he know it"
 
-SD- said:
A few hacks break into a hotel in the early 1970s: "What did he know and when did he know it"

A few million people lose their health coverage and millions more premiums increased: "What did he know and when did he know it"
Click to expand...

I specifically asked that question in DC.

Did you know there is an extreme reluctance to prosecute politicians under these circumstances? Even if they find a hand-written memo from Barry that says: "I'm going to pull one over on the voters. I'm lying and it will be too late before I'm caught", that there is a doctrine that says voters should assume all politicians do a certain amount of lying and that it is the voter's obligation to fact-check any politician's claims?

I was surprised at first, but then it makes sense. You wouldn't want the courts filled with the thousands of broken political promises made every year.
 
mrplunkey said:
I specifically asked that question in DC.

Did you know there is an extreme reluctance to prosecute politicians under these circumstances? Even if they find a hand-written memo from Barry that says: "I'm going to pull one over on the voters. I'm lying and it will be too late before I'm caught", that there is a doctrine that says voters should assume all politicians do a certain amount of lying and that it is the voter's obligation to fact-check any politician's claims?

I was surprised at first, but then it makes sense. You wouldn't want the courts filled with the thousands of broken political promises made every year.
Click to expand...

FISA court?
 
-SD- said:
FISA court?
Click to expand...

That does seem to be a way to move millions of cases per year through the courts quickly.

Did you know FISA courts have never turned-down a surveillance request in the history of the program?
 
mrplunkey said:
That does seem to be a way to move millions of cases per year through the courts quickly.

Did you know FISA courts have never turned-down a surveillance request in the history of the program?
Click to expand...

I wouldnt turn anything down either if i had no oversight or accountability and no one knew anything i was doing
 
So where's RoundBrown telling us about how BarryCare is going to be budget neutral?

Isn't the ACA going to save us money?????

P.S. The BarryCare bailout could potentially be the largest bailout in the history of the world. At least we won't be talking about the Wall Street bailout anymore.
 
mrplunkey said:
So where's RoundBrown telling us about how BarryCare is going to be budget neutral?

Isn't the ACA going to save us money?????

P.S. The BarryCare bailout could potentially be the largest bailout in the history of the world. At least we won't be talking about the Wall Street bailout anymore.
Click to expand...

fuck not another bailout rob, you gotta be kidding
 
-SD- said:
fuck not another bailout rob, you gotta be kidding
Click to expand...

Oh yeah. That's another one of the rumors on the street.

Insurance companies get a bailout so they don't raise premiums on the exchanges, since now all the stripped-down plans will be legal for at least one more year. That means the average person on the exchange is much sicker, so somebody's gotta make-up the difference in cash.

They've got Barry by the balls, but he's not beneath using our tax dollars to solve his political problem. He's kinda stuck too, because if he doesn't then Bill and Hillary will turn on him. Bill isn't going to let Barry screw-up Hillary's 2016 chances. Hillary gives Bill a pass on all the pussy he wants (even to this day) -- Bill is going to repay that debt in full.

Good times.
 
Roundbrown wood tell you that our deficit is decreasing!

It's like this: If you had a coke habit of 6 grams per day, wouldn't decreasing it to only 4 grams per day be progress?

Go Barry go!
 
mrplunkey said:
Oh yeah. That's another one of the rumors on the street.

Insurance companies get a bailout so they don't raise premiums on the exchanges, since now all the stripped-down plans will be legal for at least one more year. That means the average person on the exchange is much sicker, so somebody's gotta make-up the difference in cash.

They've got Barry by the balls, but he's not beneath using our tax dollars to solve his political problem. He's kinda stuck too, because if he doesn't then Bill and Hillary will turn on him. Bill isn't going to let Barry screw-up Hillary's 2016 chances. Hillary gives Bill a pass on all the pussy he wants (even to this day) -- Bill is going to repay that debt in full.

Good times.
Click to expand...

Does it really matter? You pay for the uninsured one way or another. Would you rather the Government subsidize some health insurance premiums or would you rather be charged $1,200 for a flu shot.
 
or,


just get the $1,200 flu shot and don't pay your bill like the vast majority of people already do w/their medical bills.


lol
 
225,000 Michigan residents are losing their insurance. I've had a few of my pt's inform me that they will lose it. Not one uninsured pt has signed up.
 
billfred said:
Does it really matter? You pay for the uninsured one way or another. Would you rather the Government subsidize some health insurance premiums or would you rather be charged $1,200 for a flu shot.
Click to expand...

We have a tiered system right now:

Private Payers (roughly at cost x 1.60)
Medicare (roughly at cost x 0.90)
Uninsured/Under-insured including Medicaid (roughly at cost x 0.20)

We're moving toward a two-tier system:

Concierge Level / Elite Private Payers (cost unknown)
Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid (cost unknown)

We managed access to the third tier before (which yes, is a nice way of saying we denied or limited care). Emergent care was paid by the hospital absorbing the cost, but even then that tier was managed.

Let me give you an example: If you presented to an ER with a marginally-stable fracture and had no insurance, you most likely got a plaster or fiberglass cast if at all possible -- they didn't even know if you'd ever return. But if you had insurance, you probably got plates and screws (a secondary, costly surgery). Providers rationed care based on your ability to pay.

Let me give you another example: Here's a real-world one. Our nanny/housekeeper's husband is marginally employed. He does "odd jobs" and probably makes less than $10,000 per year. He's at least 350 lbs and has a blood sugar that routinely runs over 300 and often spikes to over 400. He's a complete train wreck. She buys him glucose meters and test strips -- he refuses to use them. She tries to modify his eating habits -- and he sneaks food. He's told me point-blank that he doesn't care and that if they need to cut something off (referring to an amputation), so be it. In a BarryCare world, this guy is a vein of pure gold to a provider. They could easily rack-up $50,000 per year in bills for him, but A) He's not going to exercise, B) He's going to maintain his 350+ lbs body weight and C) He's not going to modify his diet. That $50,000 per year is going to come straight from taxpayers.

So what's the incremental cost of BarryCare to taxpayers through measures like I described? I'd guess for the first few years it will only be around $200-$400 billion dollars. Past five years and more like ten years away, we're talking trillion+ dollars of new entitlement costs. And yes, that's on top of our existing Medicare and Medicaid burden -- this is money spent beyond that.
 
TableFun said:
225,000 Michigan residents are losing their insurance. I've had a few of my pt's inform me that they will lose it. Not one uninsured pt has signed up.
Click to expand...

And those private payers were probably paying at a good margin.

Even if they do manage to sign-up for BarryCare, the providers will get less *and* taxpayers will be paying a large subsidy on top of that.

Think of it like this:

CPT XYZ reimbursed $1,200 before

Post-BarryCare...

CPT XYZ reimburses $800
But taxpayers pay 25% of that

So providers get less money and taxpayers pay more money. And a lot of the recipients of that benefit don't want to modify their lifestyles anyway.

It's a massive transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the underemployed and poor-lifestyle crowd.

Now someone will parade-out an example of someone with some unique, non-lifestyle related pre-existing condition. And yes, there's not doubt that there are some of those people. But you don't restructure 1/6 of the entire US economy for what would be at *best* six to eight million people. It's the tail wagging the dog. For those people, we would have been better writing them big checks to buy private insurance instead of destroying the entire system.
 
zwhit said:
aren't you the guy who blew up his heart and has never posted a pic of himself?
Click to expand...

He's the guy who damaged his heart with clenbuterol, damaged his back, abused steroids badly and now drones on and on about locally-grown organic food even though he has no idea what he's talking about.

And yeah, the trick is to let him run his mouth about something. Then challenge him. He'll have some reason for not stepping-up and then he'll spend 10+ pages making stupid comments like the one above to distract people from the inescapable fact that he can't back anything up.

Redscam: Often wrong but never in doubt.
 
So does Obamacare only affect poors/unemployeds? I signed up for insurance through work last month and nothing has changed.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
So does Obamacare only affect poors/unemployeds? I signed up for insurance through work last month and nothing has changed.



:cow:
Click to expand...

It affects everyone.

For an elite 1%-3%, it will be great. We'll have concierge-level care that will initially be very expensive but then market forces will drive the cost down to a very livable level.

Everyone else will be fucked.
 
mrplunkey said:
It affects everyone.

For an elite 1%-3%, it will be great. We'll have concierge-level care that will initially be very expensive but then market forces will drive the cost down to a very livable level.

Everyone else will be fucked.
Click to expand...


So how does Obamacare affect me, if not at the cost-of-insurance point? From what I saw, deductables and Rx coinsurances remained constant with last year.



:cow:
 
samoth said:
So how does Obamacare affect me, if not at the cost-of-insurance point? From what I saw, deductables and Rx coinsurances remained constant with last year.



:cow:
Click to expand...

Employers will eventually raise your deductibles until you're afraid to seek-out care. We'll offer a wellness program that you can participate in to blunt some of the cost, but it won't cover all of the deductible. Plus we'll raise the cost for family and children (BarryCare calls for a 60% cost plan on the employee, but it is silent regarding spouses and children).

Here in a few years, you'll get frustrated and then we'll offer to just dump you into an exchange. By then, you'll be happy with it and just agree.

Good luck finding a doctor though. That part will suck. You'll essentially be on Medicaid, but it will have a cool name like "UnitedHealth Health Advantage Plus". By then the web site should work too, so you can sign-up for it lickity-split!
 
^^^ Somebody bookmark this page for me so I can refer to it around 2015 or 2016.
 
So someone like me who has no primary care doc, has an Aetna family plan through work and when I rarely get sick go to Patient First with my $1000.00 pretax healthcare savings Visa card, why should I fucking care?
 
Because really for the next 15 years it's all about my kids coverage, after that I'll worry about how fucked up everything is. No Fortune 500 company is going to royally fuck their employees near term.
 
Captain FT said:
So someone like me who has no primary care doc, has an Aetna family plan through work and when I rarely get sick go to Patient First with my $1000.00 pretax healthcare savings Visa card, why should I fucking care?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing here, but you're probably buying a minimal Aetna plan for your catastrophic coverage and handling the small stuff through your HSA.

Soon (if not already) your employer will need to add contraception, mental health care and wellness visits to your plan -- it now needs to meet BarryCare standards. That should drive your premiums up soon (unless they have already). One way they might have slowed-down the increase by slipping-in a $10,000 deductible.

So how will it ultimately effect you personally? Your employer will have to offer a "qualified" plan that has at least a 60% medical payout. Plus, it can't cost more than 9% of your pay.

But when it comes to spouses and children, there will be a catch there too. None of the restrictions mentioned about apply to children and spouses. Typically spouses run 50% more than employees (on a per-enrollee basis, not in aggregate). So you might get coverage for yourself at something like $12 per paycheck, but that might jump to $200 or even $400 (or more) when you try to add your spouse. And if your spouse has access to their own employer, you might get out-and-out denied coverage for her (i.e. the UPS change they made a while back).

UPS to drop 15,000 workers' spouses from insurance, blames Obamacare - Aug. 21, 2013
 
Captain FT said:
Because really for the next 15 years it's all about my kids coverage, after that I'll worry about how fucked up everything is. No Fortune 500 company is going to royally fuck their employees near term.
Click to expand...

Don't think of it as a royal fucking when it comes to kids coverage.

Picture this scenario:

With no pre-existing conditions and no lifetime caps, every new employee is a potential surprise. Imagine hiring a $30,000 per year to do unskilled labor in a factory and then learning they have a child on dialysis with other complications that will now cost you $15,000 per month forever. You don't have a $30,000 employee now -- now you have a $210,000 employee.

Setting aside the debate about the morality of preexisting conditions and lifetime caps, it doesn't take too many of those enrollees to dramatically increase the cost of care to an employers' children. And when those costs go up, they'll show-up in higher premiums for spouse and child buy-ups on employee plans. This isn't greedy employers or greedy insurance companies -- this is just the risk pool getting a lot riskier.

So when the buy-up for spouse and child insurance becomes 40% of your paycheck, you'll finally get frustrated and turn to an exchange. That then worsens the profile of the government pool, but that's the subject of another post. So you, the primary employee, may get better-than-BarryCare coverage, but your wife and kids will be on Medicaid (essentially).

It's not really "fucking over". It's just cause-and-effect economics.
 
mrplunkey said:
We have a tiered system right now:

Private Payers (roughly at cost x 1.60)
Medicare (roughly at cost x 0.90)
Uninsured/Under-insured including Medicaid (roughly at cost x 0.20)

We're moving toward a two-tier system:

Concierge Level / Elite Private Payers (cost unknown)
Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid (cost unknown)

We managed access to the third tier before (which yes, is a nice way of saying we denied or limited care). Emergent care was paid by the hospital absorbing the cost, but even then that tier was managed.

Let me give you an example: If you presented to an ER with a marginally-stable fracture and had no insurance, you most likely got a plaster or fiberglass cast if at all possible -- they didn't even know if you'd ever return. But if you had insurance, you probably got plates and screws (a secondary, costly surgery). Providers rationed care based on your ability to pay.

Let me give you another example: Here's a real-world one. Our nanny/housekeeper's husband is marginally employed. He does "odd jobs" and probably makes less than $10,000 per year. He's at least 350 lbs and has a blood sugar that routinely runs over 300 and often spikes to over 400. He's a complete train wreck. She buys him glucose meters and test strips -- he refuses to use them. She tries to modify his eating habits -- and he sneaks food. He's told me point-blank that he doesn't care and that if they need to cut something off (referring to an amputation), so be it. In a BarryCare world, this guy is a vein of pure gold to a provider. They could easily rack-up $50,000 per year in bills for him, but A) He's not going to exercise, B) He's going to maintain his 350+ lbs body weight and C) He's not going to modify his diet. That $50,000 per year is going to come straight from taxpayers.

So what's the incremental cost of BarryCare to taxpayers through measures like I described? I'd guess for the first few years it will only be around $200-$400 billion dollars. Past five years and more like ten years away, we're talking trillion+ dollars of new entitlement costs. And yes, that's on top of our existing Medicare and Medicaid burden -- this is money spent beyond that.
Click to expand...

Yeah - here is my point. I don't have a GP. Never have really as I rarely get sick. See a Doc maybe once every 5 yrs. Pull my back - thought I was dying - legit. Go to emergency room for two hours of scans, X-rays and generic scrip. Cost me $8,500. I guarantee I was the only one there who paid a bill so I paid my bill and everyone else's. Insurance paid about half so the rest was out of my pocket. I protest the bill my credit gets fucked so I take one for my Hispanic team.

Shit has got to be fixed. I would rather these fucks have to have some sort of insurance even if it is getting subsidized. Everyone needs some skin in the game.

Not saying I endorse the current cluster fuck but do endorse some effort to change.
 
billfred said:
Yeah - here is my point. I don't have a GP. Never have really as I rarely get sick. See a Doc maybe once every 5 yrs. Pull my back - thought I was dying - legit. Go to emergency room for two hours of scans, X-rays and generic scrip. Cost me $8,500. I guarantee I was the only one there who paid a bill so I paid my bill and everyone else's. Insurance paid about half so the rest was out of my pocket. I protest the bill my credit gets fucked so I take one for my Hispanic team.

Shit has got to be fixed. I would rather these fucks have to have some sort of insurance even if it is getting subsidized. Everyone needs some skin in the game.

Not saying I endorse the current cluster fuck but do endorse some effort to change.
Click to expand...

The whole system has to be fixed. There's no doubt about that.

The reason you got all those scans and x-rays was because you had good insurance (but it sounds like you had a large deductible).

In our current system, private insurance massively subsidizes government insurance. Picture this:

- 40% of a hospital's business is Medicare (which covers only 90% of cost, with the 20% copay)

- 20% of a hospital's business is indigent / Medicaid (which only covers around 20% of cost)

So here's who makes-up the difference: Private payers. They need to be paying at 160% or 170% of cost just to keep the hospitals even.

Now look at the big picture: The government-side of health care receives a massive subsidy from federal taxpayers (Medicare runs at a deficit) and massive subsidy from state taxpayers (Medicaid programs also suck-up tax dollars) and a massive subsidy from private insurers (1.65 mark-ups versus 0.90 mark-ups).

How anyone in their right mind could come to the conclusion that we need to make government even the slightest bit more involved in this mess blows my mind. They shouldn't have even let BarryCare leave conference committee until Medicare and Medicaid were fixed.

Under BarryCare logic, we need to give Casey Anthony a new baby and get George Zimmerman a new gun. I bet they'll do much better on their do-over.

/rant off
 
billfred said:
Shit has got to be fixed. I would rather these fucks have to have some sort of insurance even if it is getting subsidized. Everyone needs some skin in the game.
Click to expand...


I tend to disagree with this, but that's based off of a view that everyone (theoretically) pays for what they receive; no different than walking into a retail store with an intent to walk out with something. If someone goes into a hospital and doesn't have the money/insurance, they're asked to leave. Why is this not the case?



:cow:
 
samoth said:
I tend to disagree with this, but that's based off of a view that everyone (theoretically) pays for what they receive; no different than walking into a retail store with an intent to walk out with something. If someone goes into a hospital and doesn't have the money/insurance, they're asked to leave. Why is this not the case?



:cow:
Click to expand...

That sort of happens now. Our existing health care system has self-organized into something that is flawed, but has some common-sense measures built into it.

Let's say I show-up to an emergency room and tell them I've got a little bit of clicking in my shoulder when I lift heavy. I'm uninsured, but think it would be just great if they'd refer me to Dr. Andrews down in Alabama, because he did such nice work on Drew Brees a few years ago.

That's never, ever, ever, never going to happen.

But if I go into the same emergency room with blood gushing out of my shoulder via my subclavian vein, they'll save my life and stabilize me -- even with zero insurance at all.

We really have two systems: A non-emergent and an emergent system. We don't have people dying in the streets (who don't have alternatives).

There is absolutely, no-doubt, 100% for sure people in dire financial circumstances who have chronic conditions who genuinely want them treated or even cured. But it's very difficult to separate that group from the 450lb Walmart crowd who thinks it's funny who can grow their bellybutton the deepest over the holidays. There are people who just don't care. Remember: 20% of Americans still smoke. What kind of rock would you have to live under to not know smoking is bad for you? But with their BarryCare card, they'll become walking, breathing ATM machines for a health care system designed to rack-up charges against patients with insurance.

The private sector might be able to sort-out the Helpless from the Clueless, but it's absolutely certain that the government won't be able to do it.

This thing is going to be a train wreck. We're 15% into the mess, at best.
 
Captain FT said:
After reading that reply I suddenly have an urge to see how deep my bellybutton is.
Click to expand...

BarryCare subsidies don't start until your bellybutton is 2.5" deep.

Test it out yourself -- just put that peener of yours in there and see if it fits.
 
mrplunkey said:
That sort of happens now. Our existing health care system has self-organized into something that is flawed, but has some common-sense measures built into it.

Let's say I show-up to an emergency room and tell them I've got a little bit of clicking in my shoulder when I lift heavy. I'm uninsured, but think it would be just great if they'd refer me to Dr. Andrews down in Alabama, because he did such nice work on Drew Brees a few years ago.

That's never, ever, ever, never going to happen.

But if I go into the same emergency room with blood gushing out of my shoulder via my subclavian vein, they'll save my life and stabilize me -- even with zero insurance at all.

We really have two systems: A non-emergent and an emergent system. We don't have people dying in the streets (who don't have alternatives).

There is absolutely, no-doubt, 100% for sure people in dire financial circumstances who have chronic conditions who genuinely want them treated or even cured. But it's very difficult to separate that group from the 450lb Walmart crowd who thinks it's funny who can grow their bellybutton the deepest over the holidays. There are people who just don't care. Remember: 20% of Americans still smoke. What kind of rock would you have to live under to not know smoking is bad for you? But with their BarryCare card, they'll become walking, breathing ATM machines for a health care system designed to rack-up charges against patients with insurance.

The private sector might be able to sort-out the Helpless from the Clueless, but it's absolutely certain that the government won't be able to do it.

This thing is going to be a train wreck. We're 15% into the mess, at best.
Click to expand...

Let me give you a Texas scenario to highlight again the fuckrdness of our current system. Old lady goes to hospital in Mexico - sick. They finally realize she has terminal brain cancer and tells her to go home and take care of business.

She instead cones to visit son in Texas who takes her to emergency room who come up with the same diagnosis EXCEPT we gothru extensive surgery and treatment with the same end result. And who pays for that??? You do thru local taxes and the next time you go to Dr and get charged 6x for your treatment.
 
mrplunkey said:
But if I go into the same emergency room with blood gushing out of my shoulder via my subclavian vein, they'll save my life and stabilize me -- even with zero insurance at all.

There is absolutely, no-doubt, 100% for sure people in dire financial circumstances who have chronic conditions who genuinely want them treated or even cured.
Click to expand...


I realize this is the way it is, but I never understood *why* they get products & service for free? Why don't we turn them away from what they can't afford, like we do for everyone else for everything else in the country? I mean, sure, give them some aspirin and a glass of gatoraid, but deny them the free $50k in medical services. We don't donate filet mignon & bespokes to food/clothes banks, we donate used hanes & cheap cans of shit.



:cow:
 
billfred said:
Let me give you a Texas scenario to highlight again the fuckrdness of our current system. Old lady goes to hospital in Mexico - sick. They finally realize she has terminal brain cancer and tells her to go home and take care of business.

She instead cones to visit son in Texas who takes her to emergency room who come up with the same diagnosis EXCEPT we gothru extensive surgery and treatment with the same end result. And who pays for that??? You do thru local taxes and the next time you go to Dr and get charged 6x for your treatment.
Click to expand...

The foreign national issue is a twist. But let's assume we're dealing the American citizens or illegal aliens who will eventually be given BarryCare (it's inevitable).

That current-day scenario depends on one key thing -- how the hospital is compensated (or not compensated) for indigent care. The only duty an emergency room has is to provide the emergent portion of her care.

I live about 15 minutes away from a for-profit hospital staffed almost exclusively by private practice physicians. If she presented in their ED, she'd get the same treatment she received in Mexico -- hospice care. Those guys aren't going to get stuck with a terminal patient and no compensation.

I also live about 25 minutes away from a state-run level one trauma center with a huge academic medicine program. Most of their medical staff is employed. They have a contract with the state and get reimbursed on *all* underinsured/uninsured, as part of being a regional, academic, level-one trauma center. If she presented there, they'd think CHA-CHING! And get that meter running. There would be dozens (literally) of tests. Lots of imaging. Surgery for sure. Hell, she may even qualify for our new proton therapy treatments.

So what does BarryCare do? It gives every single provider that same special status. Every patient becomes a walking ATM. Just find a condition, rack-up a bunch of charges against it and give the exchange program the bill. It will drive up the medical losses of the exchanges, since average patient acuity will rise. But guess what? They love that. The 85% medical loss ratio works both ways. Sure, they can't spend more than 15% of their collected premiums on overhead and profit -- so how do you grow profits? You grow your medical loss ratio.

Healthcare has a huge problem already: Providers preying on people with good insurance and running-up the meter. End-of-life care is a particular problem. A well-insured patient can bring-in hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit on those last few weeks of life. BarryCare turns every patient into one of those ATMs.
 
samoth said:
I realize this is the way it is, but I never understood *why* they get products & service for free? Why don't we turn them away from what they can't afford, like we do for everyone else for everything else in the country? I mean, sure, give them some aspirin and a glass of gatoraid, but deny them the free $50k in medical services. We don't donate filet mignon & bespokes to food/clothes banks, we donate used hanes & cheap cans of shit.



:cow:
Click to expand...

The current system does turn some people away. It doesn't turn-down emergent care at all and is only moderately effective at turning-down chronic conditions.

But the argument you are making is the old "is healthcare a right?" fight. I've yet to meet someone who could explain to me why it is a right, but food, clothes, housing, education and a guaranteed job isn't a right either. We'll treat your arthritis but let you starve to death? We'll feed you but not clothe you? We'll clothe you but you don't have a place to put the clothes? And what about education?
 
Because its a goddamn right thats why

Quit asking questions and just accept that obama is so much smarter than all of us and knows whats best
 
mrplunkey said:
The current system does turn some people away. It doesn't turn-down emergent care at all and is only moderately effective at turning-down chronic conditions.
Click to expand...


That's my question: Why aren't the latter turned away? Why are they special and deserve free stuff?


But the argument you are making is the old "is healthcare a right?" fight. I've yet to meet someone who could explain to me why it is a right, but food, clothes, housing, education and a guaranteed job isn't a right either. We'll treat your arthritis but let you starve to death? We'll feed you but not clothe you? We'll clothe you but you don't have a place to put the clothes? And what about education?
Click to expand...


"But where do we draw the line?!"

Did Scotus ever debate this? I have no idea what's a right any more.



:cow:
 
-SD- said:
Because its a goddamn right thats why
Click to expand...


Citation? Aren't rights supposed to be written down somewhere? (Not rhetorical; I'm just not knowledgable on this stuff)


Quit asking questions and just accept that obama is so much smarter than all of us and knows whats best
Click to expand...


Frankly, given his academic pedigree, I easily conceed that he's smarter than everyone on this board.

I can see the idealism in universal healthcare, but I don't know enough about the current system to even attempt an argument one way or the other. Plus there are financial/market ramifications that makes it relevant to my interests, even if by proxy.



:cow:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
how to get erections in the morning ?
Replies
6
Views
242
chesty
chesty
Y
scared of spiked products
Replies
14
Views
1K
RoySimpson
RoySimpson
JimAbs43
Podcast Evolutionary.org Hardcore 2.0 #165- Frontloading: Does it work and how? with Beligas
Replies
8
Views
754
ceo
ceo
JimAbs43
Podcast Evolutionary.org Hardcore 2.0 #155- No Testosterone cycles? do they work and how? by Para Pharma
Replies
9
Views
844
zedhed
zedhed
X
how do you train hamstrings?
Replies
8
Views
946
ceo
ceo
Top Bottom