Barry Bonds Exposed!!!

[Synpax]

The underlying assumption in that is that they aren't already? The leagues and teams already do put the athletes under that kind of pressure. It's a complete money game. If your income depends on your performance, you'll do whatever it takes to make a multi-million dollar salary versus a half million dollar salary.

The capabilities of the performance of athletes is what athletics is all about. And winning teams create more revenue than losing teams. And to have a winning team, you have to have athletes performing at whatever peak they're capable of.

Your argument isn't an argument against my argument - your argument is actually for stronger, more frequent testing.

There is a concious decision, and it is in the best interests of all the athletes, not to play Russian rulette.

Take steriod use to it's extreme - would you like to see runners have to decide between losing and having their arms amutated and a kidney removed to reduce their body weight so they can run faster?

The league - a private organization - has made the decision not to put players under that pressure.

 

[bullcocky]

that's what I have been screaming for years now....they tried saying that Mark McGwire was only taking androstien.....yeah right!

 

[canadianhitman]

I'm sick of people playing the 'kid' angle. An athlete's job isn't to be a role model for your kid or anyone else's. I think Charles Barkley once said "I ain't no role-model...raise your own damn kids".

 

[Triple J]

the all-american aspect is the elite mult-million dollar athletes, who drive demand for the non-detectable substances, will NOT BE CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. But what crime did they commit even if they used THG and GH? Neither were on the controlled substances list. The other ironic aspect is, it appears BALCO was at least doing things right (compared with black market) with close monitoring of athletes health parameters (we can't have that now can we?).

I have not read the charges but what exactly are they? THG is no more illegal than 1-Test, right? and GH was being distributed without an Rx, but it is not controlled, right? so how is this case so different than anything else going on

 

[Outtlaw]

the all-american aspect is the elite mult-million dollar athletes, who drive demand for the non-detectable substances, will NOT BE CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. But what crime did they commit even if they used THG and GH? Neither were on the controlled substances list. The other ironic aspect is, it appears BALCO was at least doing things right (compared with black market) with close monitoring of athletes health parameters (we can't have that now can we?).

I have not read the charges but what exactly are they? THG is no more illegal than 1-Test, right? and GH was being distributed without an Rx, but it is not controlled, right? so how is this case so different than anything else going on

Maybe the u.s. government is trying to make an example out of someone??

 

[strongsmartsexy]

Your argument isn't an argument against my argument - your argument is actually for stronger, more frequent testing.

It doesn't matter to me if they test or not. The economics of the game will come into play to mitigate this whole issue.

There is a concious decision, and it is in the best interests of all the athletes, not to play Russian rulette.

Ah, but the argument has been made and will continue to be made that by "controlling", which is a nismoner, AAS, they're actually creating the problem. If AAS were allowed, then under a doctor's supervision there wouldn't be "Russian roulette"

Take steriod use to it's extreme - would you like to see runners have to decide between losing and having their arms amutated and a kidney removed to reduce their body weight so they can run faster?

Um, are you actually raising this as a legitimate argument?

The league - a private organization - has made the decision not to put players under that pressure.

The "league" is bending to the present pressure by congress, and the current showcasing and policitcal grandstanding. In the long run, the performace of their athelets will directly impact their pocket books. My belief, however valid, is that steroid use WILL continue.

 

[ProtienFiend]

I had 5 teenaged boys in the house at one time. Most of my concern came from the (c)Rap videos and music. Nasty lyrics those are. The three that were in sports never even thought of doing steroids.

I totally agree that there are WORSE and more powerful influences out there.. but we were talking about sports and roids...

But since you brought up the media... Thats good that they havent thought of juicing for sports... but 14 years ago I never thought one would have to strip, in order to put out a single.

Times are constantly changing.

 

[ProtienFiend]

I'm sick of people playing the 'kid' angle. An athlete's job isn't to be a role model for your kid or anyone else's. I think Charles Barkley once said "I ain't no role-model...raise your own damn kids".

kids are our future bro... they didnt respect the environment X years ago... and now look at it...

 

[Synpax]

It doesn't matter to me if they test or not. The economics of the game will come into play to mitigate this whole issue.

Ah, but the argument has been made and will continue to be made that by "controlling", which is a nismoner, AAS, they're actually creating the problem. If AAS were allowed, then under a doctor's supervision there wouldn't be "Russian roulette"

Um, are you actually raising this as a legitimate argument?

The "league" is bending to the present pressure by congress, and the current showcasing and policitcal grandstanding. In the long run, the performace of their athelets will directly impact their pocket books. My belief, however valid, is that steroid use WILL continue.

1) You are tone deaf. I already said that what was needed was more frequent and regular testing, and I explained why. You gave me no counter argument.
2) Yes, I raise the amutation as a legitemate point to more clearly illustrate the pressure that the current situation (and a situation where there was no testing at all) puts on athletes.
3) The league is not bending to pressure from anyone. I just explained to you why the league made the decision. What evidence do you have? None of congress' potential actions would have any impact on the league anyway. And if the congress decided to actually step in and set up an 'athlete monitoring agency' the league would be HAPPY to have the self-enforcement off of it's shoulders and the player's union would freak because they can no longer negotiate the penalties in advance because they have nothing on the agency whereas they have a lot of influence with the league.
4) You say steriod use will continue. SO what. That isn't an argument, that's speculation. What I presented was reasoning why the league tries - albiet failingly - to discourage steriod use, and why they should stop up their efforts.

Think about stuff before you throw out a comment like 'congress pressured them' or 'politicians are all the same' or 'money owns Washington' or other trite, unsupported dogmas.

 

[strongsmartsexy]

1) You are tone deaf. I already said that what was needed was more frequent and regular testing, and I explained why. You gave me no counter argument.

Ignoring the personal attack.

I am not offering a counter argument. I agree that frequent and regular testing is more likely to catch abuse. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that it wouldn't. In either case I don't care.

2) Yes, I raise the amutation as a legitemate point to more clearly illustrate the pressure that the current situation (and a situation where there was no testing at all) puts on athletes.

A posulated extreme isn't a good way to prove a point. And although I believe you have valid points, that argument doesn't fly, independent of the validity of the point you're presenting. Unless you're going to bring into demonstration examples of where this has occured.

3) The league is not bending to pressure from anyone. I just explained to you why the league made the decision. What evidence do you have? None of congress' potential actions would have any impact on the league anyway. And if the congress decided to actually step in and set up an 'athlete monitoring agency' the league would be HAPPY to have the self-enforcement off of it's shoulders and the player's union would freak because they can no longer negotiate the penalties in advance because they have nothing on the agency whereas they have a lot of influence with the league.

The Steroid Control Act was leveled at athletics in general. The sudden "uncovering" of Bonds et al isn't a random thing.

4) You say steriod use will continue. SO what. That isn't an argument, that's speculation. What I presented was reasoning why the league tries - albiet failingly - to discourage steriod use, and why they should stop up their efforts.

Yes it is speculation and I presented it as such. I don't agree that the league should be be doing testing. I understand their need or desire to establish policy.

Think about stuff before you throw out a comment like 'congress pressured them' or 'politicians are all the same' or 'money owns Washington' or other trite, unsupported dogmas.

Well, I did say the first phrase, the other two you pulled out of somewhere else. And as a matter of perspective I do believe that the current political climate and the stance taken by the president does indeed have and will continue to have an effect on the policies and demonstrations by the athletic groups to demonstrate that they are "doing something" about the "steroid problem"

See, and I managed to get through that whole thing without having to resort to name calling, personal attacks or false attribution of statements.