ATD is it useless afterall?

[Ulter]

Just to be clear about something. Ryan you are paying only $40k for a human clinical trial at UCLA? That's quiet a bargain. I know because we've supplied material, and much more was spent, for human studies on our product, at much smaller Universities. A study is only considered significant with 60 or more participants. The IRB at that school would certainly have requirements that would exceed more that $650 per person. I'll be curious to see the published results.

 

[AX_Ryan]

Just to be clear about something. Ryan you are paying only $40k for a human clinical trial at UCLA? That's quiet a bargain. I know because we've supplied material, and much more was spent, for human studies on our product, at much smaller Universities. A study is only considered significant with 60 or more participants. The IRB at that school would certainly have requirements that would exceed more that $650 per person. I'll be curious to see the published results.

Well I am just a rep so I am not paying for anything. But yes that is what AX has told me. Luckily they have a good friend at the school.

Like I said. That is all I know and was told the results should be back in about a month. You bet I will post them up ASAP. It could show mATD is crap. Who knows?

Just because I am curious what products or studyies did your company run? I really do not know how they work.

 

[Goldprospector]

Keep it up guys, the more info (ammo) the better!

 

[AX_Ryan]

I will also appoligize. I just noticed your store sells ATD. I did not know any other sponor sold ATD.

I will pull this thread if you like...............my intentions were not to stir anything up with other sponsors.

 

[Ulter]

I wouldn't worry about it. There is nothing here that affects our store, product, or it's sales. But thanks for offering.

The press release for the most recent study is not going to hit businesswire until next week. So I can't talk about it.

This was the last press release about a study we supplied material for. We didn't "sponsor" the study. That would lead people to believe the results may be tainted. It's not as impressive when a company sponsors a study as it is when the researchers pay for it themselves.

http://www.genengnews.com/news/bnitem.aspx?name=1124984XSL_NEWSML_TO_NEWSML_WEB.xml

 

[AX_Ryan]

To me a company supplying or sponsoring a study is impressive. Seeing that 99% of all supplement companies don't care or just don't think about it.

Congrats to you guys................It is rare.

 

[Ulter]

I didn't mean that it's not a wonderful gesture on the part of the company. I meant that the medical and scientific community doesn't recognize it as significant with less than 60 participants and if the study was paid for by the supplier of the material. If you look at Asta Zeneca's results on the aromatese inhibitor study on Arimidex it showed no affect on lipids. But the independent studies that followed showed significant affects on lipids. It's things like that that make people in the field leary of results from self sponsored studies.

 

[liftr486]

^^^

 

[dafuq19]

what an unfortunate series innacuracies.

1. people report suppressed libido because of suppressed oestrogen

2. people get gyno because they are using superdrol and other "designer steroids" which are mostly progestins which do not aromatize, using an AI with progestin is not all that useful. Some of these compounds may also have oestrogenic metabolites from sulfation and downstream of 5alpha reduction. also the oral bioavailability issues and the fact that one entire batch of rebound XT was not actually ATD, but instead an incomplete synthesis may have played roles in other cases.

3. homosexual preference among rats is common with all aromatase inhibitors.

4/5. it is nearly retarded logic to assume that because aromatase inhibition in rats causes homosexual preference that it will cause libido problems for the same reason.

6. AGAIN, reduced libido is a normal side effect of significant oestrogen suppression.

7. this study was done prior to the understanding of the impact of aromatase inhibitors, hence some very erroneous conclusions are made, both aromasin and ATD bind to the AR at .2% affinity of DHT as would your 17 hydroxylated and methlyated version, though affinity might be different it would still bind without activity. Now how effective it would bind to aromatase is another question, one which there is no data on. Unless you would like to provide it.



as a note- many of these studies used silastic implants which deliver ATD to the brain, hence very significant oestrogen suppression in the brain. With oral(250mg at 3 times per day), injected and transdermal suppression of oestrogen plasma oestrogen is comparable to aromasin. between 90-95% of plasma oestrogen suppression.

thanks for that comment after 2 minutes of research i already knew more about ai's then most brainwashed people crying about no libido so it is bad therefore..if you get low libido from using it it has most likely done its job you should just lower the doses then but instead some idiots buy overexpensive ai's where they take 3 pills at day and still have libido(because it isn't strong enough)

 

[dafuq19]

Ya mac I know all that, have used letro primarily both on and off-cycle and for PCT. I also ran 6-oxo once for PCT (which I believe is an altered form of ATD), with good results, and there is a product called T3 which also works pretty well in my experience. This topical ATD though, I never had an ai make me feel so "shutdown", that I felt I needed to run a follow-up PCT as a result of the AI's negative effects. Based on my "experiment", I think Ryan's research has some valid points.

where is your logic man...no estrogen=no libido if you have more libido on other ai's it means they are weaker and will cost you more if atd is to strong lower the dose and you are fine+ get 300% cheaper