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Alcohol Vs. Steroids On liver

What is more liver toxic?

  • Alcohol is weaker then steroids

    Votes: 72 33.0%

  • Alcohol is worse on liver

    Votes: 109 50.0%

  • Alcohol is only stronger then anavar

    Votes: 6 2.8%

  • Alcohol is stronger then anavar and some other steroids

    Votes: 30 13.8%
  • Total voters
    218
lilj888

lilj888

Well-known member
Just curious if alcohol is more liver toxic then some steroids...Dunno if this has been done but havent seen it
 
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
 
Nelson Montana said:
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...
holy shit that could be bad
 
"They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it."

Who says this? Scietific research/journal - please post. Or at least back up your claims.
 
Nelson Montana said:
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
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seems about right to me.
 
Originally Posted by nautica
Xenobiotic Metabolism
Xenobiotic Metabolism (basically drug metabolism, esp. breakdown) is carried out by enzymes, mainly in the liver, but also in the lung, kidneys, GI tract and skin. There are 3 phases in the in xenobiotic metabolism from the initial activation or deactivation to the final transport and clearance.

Phase 1 = functionalism or introducing a polar group to the molecule in order for the drug to be brought into cells and/or organelles.
Phase 2 = conjugation or coupling of a typically polar group to the molecule (the addition of the polar group will later be used in transport)
Phase 3 = Transport or altering localization of the molecule. i.e. Renal or biliary excretion.

Depending on the type of molecule (polar/nonpolar, ect...) the drug may or may not have to enter phase 1, it could start off in phase II, or III for that matter if it is a polar molecule and transportable. As we know, steroids are a class of large mostly non polar molecule, so they must be initiated in phase I.

Cytochrome P450 is the largest superfamily of Phase I enzymes, currently known. P450 has evolved along with humans, mainly for the purpose of endogenous steroid and arachidonic acid metabolism but as man began to partake in drugs, they assumed the role of exogenous drug metabolism and also exogenous steroids.

Fortunately, we also have other types of phase I enzymes such as Alcohol and aldehyde dehydrogenases. As alcohol is introduced into the body, it is brought into the cytosol, mainly in the parenchymal cells of the liver. At this time Alcohol dehydrogenase converts the alchohols to acetic aldehyde, which is perfectly fine. But, then the acetic aldehyde is shunted into the mitochondria, where it is converted to acetic acid, which is toxic. In this case, to the liver. At which time, it does its damage and moves on into Phase II metabolism.

So, at this time it does not appear that there would be a conflict. At least not on a cellular level. Right? Not neccessarily. For high levels of alcohol intake or alcoholics the Cytocrome P450 family also contributes to the phase I metabolism of alcohol, which, if you will recall, is what metabolizes steroids in phase I.

It does not appear that there is significant direct conflict in Phase II and III; however, as these drugs move through the metabolic phases they will cause necrosis on a gross scale, which will put an increased burden on the remaining tissues for the clearance of the drugs.

THIS IS A SIDE NOTE BUT IS OF EXTREME CLINICAL SIGNIFICANCE. PHASE I METABOLISM OF ACETAMINOPHEN WILL ACTIVATE 5% OF ACETAMINOPHEN, WHICH WILL ALSO HAVE TO BE CLEARED BYE CYTOCHROME P450. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS STUDIES SHOWING THE EXTREME DANGERS OF ACETAMINOPHEN BY ITSELF BUT IN RELATION TO ALCOHOL IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS AND IF STEROIDS ARE ADDED TO THE MIX IT IS EVEN MORE SERIOUS.

What does all of this mean. Basically, no one knows for sure. There are sooo many factors affecting xenobiotic metabolism: age, diet, health, gender, polymorphisms, species variation (animal testing problems), substrate competitive inhibition, enzyme stabilization or induction, routes of administration, ect......

This makes it also impossible for any one to tell you what will or will not hurt you, specifically. But, what I can tell you is that with each additional "vice" you add into your system you are raising your risk factors and you will be shortening your "natural" life expectancy (what I mean by natural life is excluding accidents, car wrecks, smoking, ect....). So it is up to you what you decide what you do with your life and what you choose to put in your body. But, you need to keep in mind that your view may be different now then it will be when you are 40 or 50 or 60. Who knows maybe if you live to be 70 and you have grand children running around, that might be worth more to you than 5 or 10 years of being JACKED.

BOTTOM LINE: I would suggest that if you are going to do steroids that you keep the 17 alpha-alkylated's to a minimum, although testosterone without any esters or 17 alpha-alkylated's, ect... must also be metabolized by the liver. The only, difference, and I repeat the only difference is the number of passes it takes through the liver. And, yes I know that aromatase converts test to estrogen yadda, yadda yadda, but this is also a "steroid" and at some point it will have to be broken down and removed from the body. And, if you must drink alcohol, then keep it also to a minimum. Don't binge and don't drink every night. And, most importantly, leave the FUCKING ACETAMINIPHEN alone. No matter what, don't take this drug (ibuprophen is also bad but not as bad) for any reason. Especially, if you have a hang over and your body has been clearing alcohol all night (plus the 300 mgs of Dianabol - methandrostenolone - you have built up in your system). Also, if you like to pop a few hydrocodones, while you drink, then just go straight for the oxycotin, at least, then your body will not have to metabolize all of the acetaminophen the government requires to be put into these drugs. But that is another story.

Hope that clears things up.
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I'll quote this post I dug up again by Nautica.
 
Well that's what Nelson was saying. It's a ballpark estimate. Nobody is going to do a study on orals vs shots of alcohol for 6 weeks and then compare liver values. Not everything has to have scientific research for you to know that it is bad or not.

kasabian19 said:
"They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it."

Who says this? Scietific research/journal - please post. Or at least back up your claims.
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depends what type of alcohol you drink

the light color of the alcohol the easier it is on the liver

vodka = easier
whiskey = harder
 
I think as long as you wash your a-bombs down with a high end liquor, you're in the clear. Also, make sure you drink at least one glass of water per day.

Glad I could help.
 
kasabian19 said:
"They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it."

Who says this? Scietific research/journal - please post. Or at least back up your claims.
Click to expand...

Two posts and already breaking balls, eh? We don't play the "my cut and paste study is bigger than your cut and paste study" here. I already mentioned it was an estimate. You have proof that's otherwise? Feel free to present it. If not, sit back, shut up, and learn from the vets here.

As for Daves assertion that 50 mgs is comparable to a vodka, that's just ridiculous. (Wishful thinking?) Many people have developed liver damage from a single dose of Anadrol 50 - oxymetholone - for an extended period. I don't know of anyone who developed liver damage from one drink a day.
 
Last edited:
Many people developed liver damage from a single A50? who?

How exactly does injectable test affect the liver?
 
Tweakle said:
Many people developed liver damage from a single Anadrol 50 - oxymetholone - ? who?

How exactly does injectable test affect the liver?
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You want names? Maybe not too many people at 50 mgs but there were plenty of guys I knew in the 80's who were taking 100mgs and were told by their doc that if they didn't stop they'd soon be dead. Were they also drinking? I can;t say for sure.

It's even a part of the contraindications listed in the pharma packaging for Anadrol.

The liver filters everything, including injectable sustances. Orals are much harder because A: they're more concentrated and B: They're 17AA which prevents the liver from breaking it down causing additional stress and exposure to the drug. Add alcohol, which the body percieves as poison, and it's a cocktail for disaster. When alcohol is present the liver can do nothing else -- it doesn't process fats or sugars or nutrients. It just works at removing the alcohol because it must. Imagine what happens with 17AA drugs in the system at the same time. This isn't a joke bro.

Because the amount of drug passing through the liver with an injectable is much less, it isn't much of a stress at all.

Primo tabs are the only oral (besides Andriol, not worth mentioning) that isn't 17AA. But thats why they aren't very effective. They're destoyed by the liver in a couple of hours. But even high dosages all day long don't have that much of an effect on liver values leaving one to believe it's the 17AA, not so much the drug itself.

The liver is a resilient little guy. But once it's overloaded, it can fail fast. Ya feel lucky?
 
I'm aware of the the hepatoxicity anadrol, which is why it's bizzare that anyone would claim liver damage after one pill. The theraputic, doctor prescribed dose is 5m per kilo, which would work out @ 500mg a day for an average sized lifter.

I've read studies that showed cysts, blood pools and other damage when the test subject rats took 150mg per kilo for months but I don't think even Palumbo is going to advocate that.

Anecdotally, I know my liver values were a little high after 2 months @ 100mg ED but hardly the equivalent of drinking a bottle of vodka daily for 8 weeks.
 
I would say a lot of it depends on what type steroid you're referring to
anadrol is very liver toxic,but whats odd is that its been prescribed by many many doctors and doctors generally aren't in business to kill their patients so that brings up the validity of what's been said about it.

would I use anadrol?fuck no,but I've abused the living shit out of my liver in the past if I hadn't had the past I have I might possibly give it a run.would I give dianabol a run again?you better believe it.........hahaha

I would say everything is subjective to a huge degree and that includes my perspectives,admittedly.
 
Tweakle said:
I'm aware of the the hepatoxicity anadrol, which is why it's bizzare that anyone would claim liver damage after one pill. The theraputic, doctor prescribed dose is 5m per kilo, which would work out @ 500mg a day for an average sized lifter.

I've read studies that showed cysts, blood pools and other damage when the test subject rats took 150mg per kilo for months but I don't think even Palumbo is going to advocate that.

Anecdotally, I know my liver values were a little high after 2 months @ 100mg ED but hardly the equivalent of drinking a bottle of vodka daily for 8 weeks.
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500mgs a day? something's wrong with that.

Keep in mind, there's other damage from alcohol beyond the liver. There are people that drink up to a half bottle of booze a day for years with no apparent damage. And then...
 
I have bloodwork for liver values after being on Nolvadex for a year at 20mg/day.

As Primordial Performance has pointed out, Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - is indeed hard on your liver. I'm not sure how it rates vs oral gear like db0l or avar. I doubt it's in the same league as halotestin or I'd have died after 3 months. :p

R1
 
Two posts and already breaking balls, eh? We don't play the "my cut and paste study is bigger than your cut and paste study" here. I already mentioned it was an estimate. You have proof that's otherwise? Feel free to present it. If not, sit back, shut up, and learn from the vets here.
Have you got proof of this?

There is one single journal that links A-50 to cancer - in that case it was a 14 year old girl on Anadrol 300mg ED for 6 years. I can produce the journal if you like!

Sit down and shut up?

Hmmm, i have a degrees in chemistry and biology and have written a 1st class disseration regarding steroid chemistry etc..?

Just becuase i have few posts doesnt mean i dont know anything.
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kasabian19 said:
Two posts and already breaking balls, eh? We don't play the "my cut and paste study is bigger than your cut and paste study" here. I already mentioned it was an estimate. You have proof that's otherwise? Feel free to present it. If not, sit back, shut up, and learn from the vets here.

Have you got proof of this?

There is one single journal that links A-50 to cancer - in that case it was a 14 year old girl on Anadrol 300mg ED for 6 years. I can produce the journal if you like!

Sit down and shut up?

Hmmm, i have a degrees in chemistry and biology and have written a 1st class disseration regarding steroid chemistry etc..?

Just becuase i have few posts doesnt mean i dont know anything.
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It's a matter of respect kid. You can offer a contrary point of view( which you still havn't done) but when you come off all confrontational and pissy with nothing else to offer other than being a dick, you're off to a bad start. I know that crap works on the kiddie boards like BB.com but not here. Too many vets.

I never said anything about cancer so I'm not sure where that's coming from. And please don't make multiple posts or have your friend with 7 posts egg you on.

You have a degree in chemistry and biology? Great, put it to good use and stop being an ass.
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Nelson Montana said:
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...

I think he's in the ballpark, altough I'd give more weight to the alcohol than he did.
 
Nelson Montana said:
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly not a chemist or biologist but this seems to me to be a reasonably logical hypothesis based on what little I do know about steroids and alcohol. I'm guessing it may possibly be overstated slightly but as already pointed out it's probably a really good ballpark estimate to work with.
 
Nelson Montana said:
They say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...

Thanks Nelson!!!

I just may go kill myself now.

LOL
 
Surely genetics plays a part as well. Individuals have varying levels of cytochrome p450 enzymes and/or alcohol dyhydrogenase, which will affect metabolism?
 
r1 said:
I have bloodwork for liver values after being on Nolvadex for a year at 20mg/day.

As Primordial Performance has pointed out, Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - is indeed hard on your liver. I'm not sure how it rates vs oral gear like db0l or avar. I doubt it's in the same league as halotestin or I'd have died after 3 months. :p

R1
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post it up bro. i just ran clomid for 30 days and nolvadex for about 40 days. 50mg of clomid and 20mg of nolva. i'm getting bw done coming up on the 22nd. just wondering if my cholesterol is gonna be in the shack.


on the subject of anadrol and liver damage, i think its person specific cause some ol timers i know used to run anadrol for 3 months at a crack. now from what i've learned here i look at them like they are fucking koo koo. hehe.
 
yall a bunch of alcoholics
 
DJ_UFO said:
yall a bunch of alcoholics
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I'm a recovered one. IMO alcohol kicks steroid ass on damage. But I drank for 25 years. My liver values are all normal noe. Your liver is a tough MoFo.
3 or 4 weeks on Drol or Halo won't kill you. Alcohol will. Not even close
 
If most people were to drink a 26oz bottle of vodka every day for a month they would have some degree of kidney or liver failure or worse. Unfortunately for me I was almost there from 20, 7% alc. drinks a day for three weeks during a college binge years ago.

Makes me think I should flush the dbol I have down the toilet and be nice to my liver.

I know nothing about doing juice and too much about drinking.

I have been convinced by the experienced guys here to stick with only test for my first few cycles - makes more and more sense the more I think about it.

Thanks.
 
Nelson Montana said:
500mgs a day? something's wrong with that.

Keep in mind, there's other damage from alcohol beyond the liver. There are people that drink up to a half bottle of booze a day for years with no apparent damage. And then...
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Yeap and there are folks that smoke 1-2 packs a day and nothing is wrong with them.


We are all built the same so to speak but we are also all different in the way we can handle things.
 
kasabian19 said:
Two posts and already breaking balls, eh? We don't play the "my cut and paste study is bigger than your cut and paste study" here. I already mentioned it was an estimate. You have proof that's otherwise? Feel free to present it. If not, sit back, shut up, and learn from the vets here.

Have you got proof of this?

There is one single journal that links A-50 to cancer - in that case it was a 14 year old girl on Anadrol 300mg ED for 6 years. I can produce the journal if you like!

Sit down and shut up?

Hmmm, i have a degrees in chemistry and biology and have written a 1st class disseration regarding steroid chemistry etc..?

Just becuase i have few posts doesnt mean i dont know anything.
Click to expand...



Yea please post the article and your first class dissertation. Do they spell sheck it too? disseration? LMAO!!!!!!
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702daswoll1 said:
We are all going to die.. Im dying huge though!
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and with a hard on and 2 bitches on each nut?
 
halfcenturian said:
I'm a recovered one. IMO alcohol kicks steroid ass on damage. But I drank for 25 years. My liver values are all normal noe. Your liver is a tough MoFo.
3 or 4 weeks on Anadrol 50 - oxymetholone - or Halo won't kill you. Alcohol will. Not even close
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Not only your liver but your life as well. Glad to hear your dry.
 
Steroids Dont make your kidneys feel like they got kicked in & stomped out after a hard night of Juicing, DRINKING DOES!
 
Nothing better to do while reading all five pages of this thread then drink some rum induced Sun Drop.
 
they affect the liver completely differently.

the damage from alcohol requires much more abuse over a longer period of time. damage from AAS can happen very rapidly and is very specific, oral steroids cause cholestasis (stopping bile flow from liver to gall bladder) which is easy to diagnose/prevent (change in stool/urine color) but can quickly cause liver damage if allowed to go unchecked. any liver disease that progresses to jaundice can easily be fatal.
 
On a gram for gram basis, I am sure the 17aa steroids are indeed harder on the liver.

However, there are other deleterious effects of alcohol such as dehydration that is very bad for you, and sadly, alcohol does kill our poor gray matter.

In one ounce of vodka, there is roughly 7 grams of alcohol, so that would be 7000mg. I for one have a hard time believing that 5 mg of 17aa steroid is going to be equally as hard on the liver as 7000mg of another substance.

I could be wrong, and I don't believe there is any scientific literature to back up any of these statements, but sometimes a quantitative analysis can be helpful.
 
10001110101 said:
they affect the liver completely differently.

the damage from alcohol requires much more abuse over a longer period of time. damage from AAS can happen very rapidly and is very specific, oral steroids cause cholestasis (stopping bile flow from liver to gall bladder) which is easy to diagnose/prevent (change in stool/urine color) but can quickly cause liver damage if allowed to go unchecked. any liver disease that progresses to jaundice can easily be fatal.
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Spot on. Once the bile stops, the bilirubin accumulates and before you know it you're turning yellow (jaundice). Been through that already from dianabol. I really did feel like I was going die...took 2 1/2 months to recover in my case.
 
sensational said:
On a gram for gram basis, I am sure the 17aa steroids are indeed harder on the liver.
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As stated in 10001110101's post above, you cannot compare the two. They have totally different effects on the liver.

The onset of cholestasis caused by 17-alkylated steroid use can be extremely rapid. That's why the use of orals is always recommended for very short periods only....less than 8 weeks.

Here's another example: The last time I used Tylenol (parecetamol) my bilirubin levels were off the normal scale within 2 days and I was already experiencing pruritus (severe itching) from the rapid onset of cholestasis. Luckily I knew the symptoms and had my bilirubin checked.

You cannot compare the effect of alcohol to other drugs on the liver.
 
Dugg said:
Drinking spirits that has a darker colour like JD / Whiskey stresses the Liver far worse than Vodka, Rum(white), Gin etc. Of course all are bad. Fact !
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Color has nothing to do with it, its content. Everclear, even moonshine are clear as water but they are pure grain alcohol. Compare that with something like jagermeister which is pretty much black as tar but only 70 proof. Yes, they are all bad, and color may be one of those slight "rule of thumbs," but using rule of thumbs will get you in trouble.
 
Interesting read. I'll bump for further discussion. As a former heavy, heavy drinker (at least a 12 pack a day and half a handle of liquor as well) this is an interesting subject. I drank my ass off for 15 years straight and it never had a serious effect on my liver values. The last year I drank my numbers were still normal and that was 4 and a half years ago. The only thing that I noticed was that I was more irritable towards the end so that's when I decided to stop. In other words, it just wasn't fun anymore. By the same token, I have friends who would try to hang with me and would be in pain for days afterwards and one who would throw up blood so I think all of this is subjective as well. It might be the same way with orals, I don't know though.
 
nelson montana said:
they say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...

wow
 
I personally have never and I mean never heard of someone needing a liver transplant because of steriods. But I've heard of countless alcoholics needing one.
 
79steeler said:
I personally have never and I mean never heard of someone needing a liver transplant because of steriods. But I've heard of countless alcoholics needing one.
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Those who require liver transplants due to alcohol abuse arrive to that state by abusing alcohol for decades. I don't think anyone can abuse an oral steroid for decades without dying first.
 
posted by nelson montana
they say 5 mgs of an oral is equal to a shot of hard liquer. It's a ballpark estimate, but it's all we've got.

Injectables much less so -- about 25 mgs equals a shot of liquer. Hardly a factor at all since administartion is less often.

So 50 mgs of an oral a day is comparable to 70 drinks a week as far as the liver perceives it.
Click to expand...
I cant imagine that this could be correct?
That would be 500 drinks a week for most guys and 1500 drinks a week for sum ppl. I would hypothesize that its less than this. However I agree that alcohol is the lesser of the 2 in toxicity.
 
Is this for real a guy at my gym is mixing steroids with everclear.What are the benifits and dangers of doing this ?
 
Ok so I used to read this board a lot, never really posted much cuz that's just not my style but this board seemed to me to have the most real info out of many. I'm bored and cruising the net tonight and got on this board for the first time in at least 6 months and came across this thread. Hit on many points I've always though of regarding oral steroids or oral designers and the liver toxicity relating to booze and also tylenol (acetominophin). To skip to the short story, scroll down to the paragraph starting w/ "long story short."

I want to first say that I have no research to back up what I say , it's simply from experience, feel, and common intuitive sense.

I've always thought that the liver toxicity claims of orals such as d-bol, which I've never taken, or designers such as superdrol, I've taken a clone up to 40 mgs in a single dose on a pulse, are a little overblown. Tylenol and booze are ridiculously harsh on the liver, especially in the quantities most people take them in, and people take these for extended periods of time, years even. Oral roids are generally (from what I know) taken in short cycles and at a few pills at a time. My cycle experience is very limited; I've taken 4 "pulse" cycles at 2-3 weeks apiece, pulsing at 3-4 days at a time. 3 were with a superdrol clone (cel m-drol) and one with a pheraplex clone (again cel p-plex). the superdrol I used more and more often, the last two pulses being 3 weeks at 40 mgs; 20mgs 2hrs preworkout and 20 immediately preworkout. so effectively 40 mgs in my system at one time and the only side I ever experienced was racing heartbeat. In addition, I've always been a big drinker; to the extent of 15+ beers, half a fifth of whiskey, or both at the same time. On my last two pulses the awesome feeling I got from training with 40mgs of a super clone in my system got me so amped up I had to got out and chase tail afterwords. That involved drinking, against all good rational advice. I never felt worse the next day that I would have after the same amount of booze w/out the oral.
I've also taken a shitload of different pills, otc's and perscript pain killers (most of which have apap in them) and I've drinken and taken tylenol (or something else w/ apap in it) at the same time and always felt worse than I would have of the booze alone.

Long story short, in my experience, drinking [at least to the extent most drinkers do (6+ drinks in a sitting)] or taking tylenol at even the recomended dosage (2pills at 500mg ea, for spot relief or multiple times a day) is much worse in the long run, given the tendencies of users, than oral steroids. The body is a resilient entity; acute short term stress (orals or even orals w/ occasional drinking) can be recovered from easily but long-term use can cause more drastic problems. Even if we assume the previous sentence is true, I still maintain that the liver toxicity (or more accurately, the negative health effects) of oral/designer steroids is exaggerated compared to drinking (one commonly accepted drink being a shot/beer/glass of wine vs. one standard dose of a given oral). More attention should be paid to the lipid, blood pressure, and cholesterol effects of an oral than the liver damage (not to say precautions such as thistle, liv-52, or whatever shouldn't be taken).

Again, this is my subjective experience, but I felt I had to post up in this just because I've been thinking of it lately.
 
you could destroy your liver beyond repair in just a few months with oral steroids. lets see you do that with alcohol
 
Personally I think the danger to the liver with orals is not as bad as most people think. Of course, you have to be sensible with doses. The reason I think this is that I can't think of any pro bodybuilders that have died or been sick with liver issues. Not saying there haven't been any, but I don't know of any.

Kidneys though, that's another story.
 
I've had no high liver values while taking steroids so far including orals for years. I dont go crazy on dosages either and I have my liver checked 3-4x a year.
When I drink let's say 5-6 drinks on accassions I need at least a day to recover.
So, there are many variables to consider but alcohol is just bad for you period and IMO worse than orals.
Now, taken in a non abusive way either steroids or alcohol will most likley not damage your liver unless you hava a pre-existing condition. Abused both can have detriemental effects. I just think from my experience that alcohol is harder on the liver.
 
But lets face it. If you are taking oral steroids you run the risk of sudden death at any moment. I am sorry to be the one to say this but its true. Yes its not all the time this happens but the odds of it happening to you are a lot greater then winning the lottery and a lot greater then you think.. Like maybe 1 out of 500k people who take oral steroids will die because of taking them. When you really stop and think about this its scary.. I think every single person should take time to sit down and think real hard about that before they do use a oral steroid.

Death due to Liver Failure Following the Use of Methandrostenolone
 
needtogetaas said:
But lets face it. If you are taking oral steroids you run the risk of sudden death at any moment. I am sorry to be the one to say this but its true. Yes its not all the time this happens but the odds of it happening to you are a lot greater then winning the lottery and a lot greater then you think.. Like maybe 1 out of 500k people who take oral steroids will die because of taking them. When you really stop and think about this its scary.. I think every single person should take time to sit down and think real hard about that before they do use a oral steroid.

Death due to Liver Failure Following the Use of Methandrostenolone
Click to expand...

wait soo she was already fucked up before she started takiing the dbol is what im reading right?
 
Scare tactics overblown.

1 in 500k doesn't scare me whatsoever.

I have a better chance of being hit by a car and killed then seriously hurting myself with responsible oral use.

I definitely respect orals, but I think shits abit blown out of proportion lately.

I sure as hell don't buy 1 5mg dbol pill equaling 5 or more drinks.
 
I will never understand why so many people feel they must do orals. Seems like a whole new generation growing up on orals. I take a needle over an oral anyday.
 
rudy76 said:
If most people were to drink a 26oz bottle of vodka every day for a month they would have some degree of kidney or liver failure or worse. Unfortunately for me I was almost there from 20, 7% alc. drinks a day for three weeks during a college binge years ago.

Makes me think I should flush the dbol I have down the toilet and be nice to my liver.

I know nothing about doing juice and too much about drinking.

I have been convinced by the experienced guys here to stick with only test for my first few cycles - makes more and more sense the more I think about it.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

In that case, I should have been dead years ago. And also half my family and friends. I have been around some serious hardcore addicts in my old days. Straight up junkies. The body is a amazing thing. Sure, there are cases of people who die of complications quickly. But most I know are still going hard and will probably outlive the person who freaks out over Drinking a beer or two while on a cycle. Hell, I took 5-9 Norco 10/325 Hydrocodones every single day for years. Last week I was just given Preffered Premium plus rate on my second life Insurance policy. The best rate available.
 
People like orals because the drug is different..

There is no injectable anadrol, period!!!!

The injectable winstrol and dbol I've read are about as bad for the liver..

I love anadrol.. I love Dbol.. I love oral drugs, they just work great for me..

It's not because I'm afraid of needles, it's because I like the drugs. =/
 
needtogetaas said:
But lets face it. If you are taking oral steroids you run the risk of sudden death at any moment. I am sorry to be the one to say this but its true. Yes its not all the time this happens but the odds of it happening to you are a lot greater then winning the lottery and a lot greater then you think.. Like maybe 1 out of 500k people who take oral steroids will die because of taking them. When you really stop and think about this its scary.. I think every single person should take time to sit down and think real hard about that before they do use a oral steroid.

Death due to Liver Failure Following the Use of Methandrostenolone
Click to expand...

You can't live forever. Odds of 1 in 500k you say? I'll take my chances.
I can't speak for everybody else, but for me it's worth the risk.
 
I just know from personal experience that I feel my organs(kidneys/liver/stomach, intestance) more, after a good night of drinking, then 10 weeks Dbol @ 40mg/pd.
Even after a few beers I can feels the drugged effect and my body trying to get rid of the toxins. I didn't have that with either Dbol, Winny or Var.
 
ive had a lot of 70 drink weeks but never any steroids... makes me want to do something more productive with my liver like take orals. These numbers are implying that a lot of people take much more than 50mg ed? also which was nelson talking about and arent there varying degrees of toxicity and where does this sample fall on the scale?
 
needtogetaas said:
But lets face it. If you are taking oral steroids you run the risk of sudden death at any moment. I am sorry to be the one to say this but its true. Yes its not all the time this happens but the odds of it happening to you are a lot greater then winning the lottery and a lot greater then you think.. Like maybe 1 out of 500k people who take oral steroids will die because of taking them. When you really stop and think about this its scary.. I think every single person should take time to sit down and think real hard about that before they do use a oral steroid.

Death due to Liver Failure Following the Use of Methandrostenolone
Click to expand...

71 year old woman taking 10 mgs of dbol for 14 months in the 60s is not proof of anything except a retarded doctor...
 
My father (54) and grandfather (79) have been drinking for decades like alcoholics that means they could die any minute?!
I'm not saying that they'll live forever, they'll pass away sooner or later but they've been drinking for 30-50 years and they'r still here lol
I guess it's about genetics too, some people's livers can take it for long periods and some's cant.
I'd rather run oral steroids than being addicted to drinking that's for sure.
Also cycling on/off is def better than drinking for years straight.
 
How about the alcohol and steroid together ? 1 mouth i drinked alcohol (martini bianco) , with winstrol 30 mg (not everyday) now i am afraid to go to doctor :( i was stupid...
 
Facts that make me believe alcohol is worse.

1) I do not drink at all. (Stopped in 2003)

2) I'm on my fourth cycle
600mg of sust a week for 15 weeks
37.5mg of dbol for 40 days

I always have my blood work done and I'm always perfect. Liver is doing great! Nothing wrong with me according to my Dr. The part that pisses my girl off is that my cholesterol is so good. He tells me that I'm the only person he knows that he will give the "ok" to eat at micdoalds and taco-bell.

Sent from my ADR6350 using EliteFitness
 
santorx said:
How about the alcohol and steroid together ? 1 mouth i drinked alcohol (martini bianco) , with winstrol 30 mg (not everyday) now i am afraid to go to doctor :( i was stupid...
Click to expand...

This happens much more often than it should. Too many people out there do not get their priorities in check and end up drinking while on harsh oral cycles. That's about as Much hell as you can put your body and liver through without a liver transplant. Pure and simple....drinking on cycle is stupid and careless
 
The last few pages of this thread, besides Rick and a few others, have just been spewing ignorant nonsense. Learn about the basic function and recovery abilities of your liver, then start making dumbass comments about how you can 'feel' your organs hurting and how you are sure you have done irreversable damage to an organ that regenerates itself. Then find some documented cases of oral steroid users(who, uh-oh, may have had a few drinks on them) who are dead or have severe liver damage. Better yet, stop commenting in threads with unsubstantiated, lab result-less, bro knowledge about whats going to happen if you do this or that on cycle because someone more knowledgable cautioned you and now you have some sort of neurodic wisdom to give because of it.
 
ppgfreak said:
Facts that make me believe alcohol is worse.

1) I do not drink at all. (Stopped in 2003)

2) I'm on my fourth cycle
600mg of sust a week for 15 weeks
37.5mg of dbol for 40 days

I always have my blood work done and I'm always perfect. Liver is doing great! Nothing wrong with me according to my Dr. The part that pisses my girl off is that my cholesterol is so good. He tells me that I'm the only person he knows that he will give the "ok" to eat at micdoalds and taco-bell.

Sent from my ADR6350 using EliteFitness
Click to expand...

I second that on no alcohal

alcohal sucks it won't make you live longer or grow stronger.
 
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