5X5 or this "other" workout for a newb?

[ngates0516]

I've been doing the 5x5 for about 2 weeks now, I'm liking it. But i've been working out by myself, since I have no one to lift with because of school/work. Now a couple of my friends are changing there schedules so i can work out with them but the thing is he's doing something completely different from what I'm doing. I just want some help on deciding whether to stick it out lifting by myself or to go work out with him and do his program. here is an attatchment of his workout. ehh the attatchment didnt work so i just copied it in here. below is his workout.
What do you guys think I should do?

Monday
Chest
Bench Press
Dumbell Press (3x6)
Chest Flies (3x10)
Cable Crossovers (3x6)
Pull-Up Machine (3x10)

Abs
8 Sec. Holds (3x12)
Leg Throwdowns (3x20)
Side Raises (3x10)
Side to Sides (2x100)

Bench
(3x6)(10,8,6)(3x3)(5,3,1)


Tuesday
Arms
Close Grip Bench (3x10)
Tricep Kick Backs (3x10)
Nosebusters (3x10)
Dumbell Busters (3x15)
Tricep Extensions (3x10)
Dumbell Curls (3x6)
Straight Bar Curls (3x6)
Bent Bar Curls (3x15)

Legs
Squats
Leg Press (3x6)
Calf Raises (3x10)

Wednesday
Back/Shoulders
Bent Over Rows (3x10)
Seated Rows (3x10)
Lat-Pull Downs (3x10)
Shoulder Press (3x10)
Shoulder Shrugs (3x10)
Side Raises (3x10)

Abs
5 Sec. Holds (3x10)
Leg Throwdowns (3x20)
Side Raises (3x10)
Side to Sides (2x100)

Thursday
Chest
Bench Press
Dumbell Press (3x6)
Chest Flies (3x10)
Cable Crossovers (3x6)
Pull-Up Machine (3x10)

Legs
Squats
Leg Press (3x6)
Calf Raises (3x10)

Bench
(3x6)(10,8,6)(3x3)(5,3,1)


Friday/Saturday
Arms
Close Grip Bench (3x10)
Tricep Kick Backs (3x10)
Nosebusters (3x10)
Dumbell Busters (3x15)
Tricep Extensions (3x10)
Dumbell Curls (3x6)
Straight Bar Curls (3x6)
Bent Bar Curls (3x15)

Abs
8 Sec. Holds (3x12)
Leg Throwdowns (3x20)
Side Raises (3x10)
Side to Sides (2x100)

 

[BiggT]

I'm not seeing the attachment......can you repost?

Also, what are your goals?? Do you train at a gym? or at home?

If you want to be strong and are self-motivated, I'd stick with the 5x5 .....if your friend won't do it or complains about the squatting, I can only imagine what his 'routine' looks like.....but, thats making assumptions, it may be a solid routine.....so lets see it.

 

[Cynical Simian]

Your attachment didn't work, but I can pretty much guarantee that the 5x5 (hopefully the SF version if you're just getting started), with its emphasis on the big compound lifts and proven success, is better than the curl- and pressdown-fest your friend is likely doing.

EDIT: Yep, stick with the 5x5.

 

[BiggT]

Sweet Mother of God...I have a headache after reading that......stick with what you're doing if you want to actually make progress.

 

[BiggT]

I bet if you stick with good, old progressive resistance on a few compound lifts and your friend does that routine, and you compare progress in 3 months, your friend will want to train on your routine.

 

[ngates0516]

yea sorry the attatchment didnt work...I'm currently working out at home, since I have everything I need for the 5x5 to do at home. If i started working out with him, then it would be at a gym. My goals, are just to get stronger/bigger, I'm currently 5'11, and weighed 173. I really want to get up to about 185 over the winter. I just ordered some supplements, that I will start taking next monday. I havent been using anything yet, because i wanted to see if i would keep with the workout. and yes its the SF version, and im really enjoying it so far.

 

[BiggT]

Honestly, man....if you want to gain 10lbs, send the supps back and spend the money at the grocery store and treat yourself to a good steak or sushi dinner. Maybe get a gainer or protein drink.

You're gonna weigh 173 the rest of your life if you follow that cluster fuck of a routine, and wait for a bunch of goofy supplements to work.

Post up what you're doing now.....are you squatting all the way down?? How old are you??

 

[ngates0516]

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

pretty much following that exact thing...yes im squatting all the way down, or at least past 90 degrees, on the last set. Im 21. all i bought for supplements was protein, and mulitvitamins. and thats just my goal is to gain 10 lbs, but if i gain more thats fine...i just want a minimum of 10 lbs hopefully.

 

[BiggT]

Protein and a Multi are fine. At 21, you have a lot of growth potential. At 5'11, you're about my height, I don't know what kind of frame you have, but I'll guess that you're pretty skinny at 173.

Post up exactly what you did last week, numbers too. Basically, how does your diet look? Are you pretty confident in your knowledge of food choices and nutrition? Are you willing to make eating a MAJOR part of your daily routine?

 

[ngates0516]

Monday:
Squat 5 X 100 115 130 145 160
Bench 5 X 95 105 115 125 135
bent over bb rows 5 X 95 100 105 110 115
2 sets of 15 weighted sit ups
4 sets of 20 regular sit ups

Wednesday:
Squat 5 X 100 115 130 130
Incline 5 X 75 85 95 105
Deadlift 5 X 105 115 125 135
3 sets of 12 weighted dips
3 sets of 12 shoulder shrugs
3 sets of 8 weighted sit ups

Friday:
Squat 5 X 100 115 130 145 3X 170 8X 160
Bench 5 X 95 105 115 125 3X 150 8X 120
Bent over bb rows 5 X 95 100 105 110 3X 125 8X 110
3 sets of 12 bent bar curls
3 sets of 12 skull crushers
calf raises

saturday treadmill/ abs
sunday basketball

 

[Guinness5.0]

I STRONGLY recommend spacing out your weights. You're very clos to your top set weights by set 3. Yes it'll make it easier for the short term. But long term you will keep the PR string going for months. The whole point of it is to get those core lifts up nice and quick, with the total workloads (pounds moved) moderate. Trust me on this - you will "speed up by slowing down'

Hope that helps some. And listen to biggt. Smart mofo right there. All your training will be great for strength but useless for size if you don't eat.

 

[lilpumper]

is there a normal time length to run the 5x5? im guessing it all depends on goals and individual progression but im not for sure. thanks

 

[ngates0516]

yea today, I started to space them out a little further, put about 15-20 pounds between each sets. on bench I stuck with 10 though. by next week or the week after hopefully I'll be at my max's, but we'll see. I didnt try to figure my max's out before hand because I didnt have a spotter in case of failure. so I just guessed.

 

[asdfzxcv]

is there a normal time length to run the 5x5? im guessing it all depends on goals and individual progression but im not for sure. thanks

With the single factor version you basically run it as long as you can in order to get maximum progression until you need to use the periodised version to progress further.The linear/non-periodized version of the 5x5 could probably be used for 6-12months before switching over to the periodized one,maybe even more.

hope this helps

 

[Protobuilder]

biggT's laying it down all over this forum today! Great advice.

BTW Glenn Pendlay has discussed that the SF 5x5 can describe a year or two of training for some people if they are able to coach themselves well enough to keep progression going w/ out totally changing the program (obviously some minor changes have to be made to keep progress going).

 

[Madcow2]

is there a normal time length to run the 5x5? im guessing it all depends on goals and individual progression but im not for sure. thanks

I don't care what program you are on or whether it's rubbing a frog on your nuts followed by intense prayer while sitting on a 45lbs plate - if it is allowing you to increase your squat, row, press, and pull (dead/clean/etc..) on a consistent basis, you do it until it stops working.

 

[Madcow2]

I've been doing the 5x5 for about 2 weeks now, I'm liking it. But i've been working out by myself, since I have no one to lift with because of school/work. SNIP

Oh my God. So basically, it's a choice between a solid viable program and the type of stupid, know nothing about programing, everything and the kitchen sink, 1x default frequency, no plan for progression, go in and hope to get better for your effort style program that I've specifically been trying to put a stop to and give people a fighting chance. Those programs are responsible for most of the people on the anabolic board and all the guys plateaued at 6' 180lbs with "perfect training and diet".

It's late so I'll just slam it like everyone else. It sucks. There is no thought and understanding behind it. It is a routine and not a program. It might work for you and do something (crazier things have produced results - even good results) but it won't be anywhere near optimal.

Like Biggt, train your way. Get your squat, bench, row, and dead up - eat a good amount of food and let him ask you about your program 3 months from now.

 

[RipStone]

I compleyley agree with what everyone has been telling you so far....stick with SF 5x5. Look at it this way....do a PROGRAM that has been around for 20+ years and is made by one of the best strength coaches of all time(Bill Starr) or do a ROUTINE that one of your buddies threw together, maybe with the help of some BS roided up Flex mag......your choice man...

 

[ngates0516]

lol...I never thought of doing that program...I planned on sticking with the 5X5, I just told him that I asked alot of questions before picking a program, and went with the 5X5, and I asked him to switch over and do the 5X5, and hes like well maybe, then he sent me his program, and it didnt look that good to me. and i made this thread knowing most people would bash that workout, so then i could show him and he'd switch...thanks guys, and thanks for the tips about the 5x5 too.

 

[Madcow2]

LOL - glad we just came out and slammed it then. Ussually I try to be a bit more polite since a lot of people don't know what garbage is and when you tell them it's horrendous you kind of hurt their self esteem. For your purpose though, it seems to be perfect.

 

[djeclipse]

I don't care what program you are on or whether it's rubbing a frog on your nuts followed by intense prayer while sitting on a 45lbs plate - if it is allowing you to increase your squat, row, press, and pull (dead/clean/etc..) on a consistent basis, you do it until it stops working.

Where can I get this magical frog? Do you sell them on your website? I tried rubbing a frog on my nuts and all it did was make a mess and give me warts and got me kicked out of the gym...

I like how they dedicate 2 whole days a week to arms and then throw back/shoulders together for no apairent reason.

ngates0516, just becasue you are going to the gym with your buddies doesn't mean you have to do the same program as them. Years back I had a good training buddy, we'd always go to the gym together, but it was very rare that we'd actually do any lifts together, we did our own thing at the gym.

Let your buddies do their program and you stick with the 5x5. Chances are your buddies will get discouraged with the ammount of work they'r doing on a daily basis and the lack of result they're getting. They'll either quit after a few weeks or join you in your program.

 

[asdfzxcv]

Here is a alternative workout to the 5x5 that Mark Rippetoe gave me when I e-mailed him a few weeks back.It is well suited for newer lifters and Mark told me it can last quite a while if you eat enough.

Workout A

3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift/5x3 Power clean,alternate every workout ''A''

Workout B

3x5 Squat
3x5 Military Press
3x5 Chins
3x8 Weighted hypers/Goodmornings

Warm up using several sets before doing the 3 work sets (or 1 for the deadlift). If you're using 175, for example, it would look like this:

Warm up sets

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

Work sets

3x5x175


You alternate workout A and B, 3 non-consecutive days per week. So you might do:

Week 1

M

Workout A

W

Workout B

F

Workout A

Week 2

M

Workout B

W

Workout A

F

Workout B


Add weight to the bar whenever possible. If you're very new to lifting weights, or if most of your lifting has focused on curls and other isolation movements, you'll probably be able to add some weight each workout. Maybe 5-10 lbs each time in the squat and deadlift, and about 5 lbs in the other three lifts. Eventually you won't be able to sustain such progress, and you'll have to get microplates so you can increase by smaller increments. Or you could make them out of chain:

http://davedraper.com/forum/showflat...3/Main/126754/

And eat a lot of food. A whole lot.

It's fine to add some assistance work such as abs, hypers, or maybe some direct biceps and triceps work, but don't overdo it. For direct arm work, 3 sets of 8 of one lift for each muscle at the end of your last workout of the week will be plenty. Your arms are getting hit hard all week on this routine, so you don't want to blast them with iso stuff as well.

The part about food is important. You MUST eat big to get big. Rippetoe recommends 4 meals per day, plus a gallon of milk spread throughout the day.

Whichever you choose to do will yeild good results.
Good luck

 

[BiggT]

Here is a alternative workout to the 5x5 that Mark Rippetoe gave me when I e-mailed him a few weeks back.It is well suited for newer lifters and Mark told me it can last quite a while if you eat enough.

Workout A

3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B

3x5 Squat
3x5 Military Press
3x5 Power Clean

Warm up using several sets before doing the 3 work sets (or 1 for the deadlift). If you're using 175, for example, it would look like this:

Warm up sets

2x5xbar (sets x reps x weight)
1x5x85
1x3x125
1x2x155

Work sets

3x5x175


You alternate workout A and B, 3 non-consecutive days per week. So you might do:

Week 1

M

Workout A

W

Workout B

F

Workout A

Week 2

M

Workout B

W

Workout A

F

Workout B


Add weight to the bar whenever possible. If you're very new to lifting weights, or if most of your lifting has focused on curls and other isolation movements, you'll probably be able to add some weight each workout. Maybe 5-10 lbs each time in the squat and deadlift, and about 5 lbs in the other three lifts. Eventually you won't be able to sustain such progress, and you'll have to get microplates so you can increase by smaller increments. Or you could make them out of chain:

http://davedraper.com/forum/showflat...3/Main/126754/

And eat a lot of food. A whole lot.

It's fine to add some assistance work such as abs, hypers, or maybe some direct biceps and triceps work, but don't overdo it. For direct arm work, 3 sets of 8 of one lift for each muscle at the end of your last workout of the week will be plenty. Your arms are getting hit hard all week on this routine, so you don't want to blast them with iso stuff as well.

The part about food is important. You MUST eat big to get big. Rippetoe recommends 4 meals per day, plus a gallon of milk spread throughout the day.

Whichever you choose to do will yeild good results.
Good luck

Great stuff.....so many times guys who are just starting out get way too scientific and start to worry about loading/deloading, working with %'s when it is just as simple as adding weight to the bar each time and making your prescribed sets and reps in good form with something left in the tank.

The eating is important, and if anybody has never tried the gallon of milk a day, you NEED to try it, milk is a very anabolic substance and is like an insurance policy to guarantee progress.

 

[asdfzxcv]

Corrected some mistakes I made while typing,sorry about that.

 

[anotherbutters]

madcow, the workout asdf posted above is probably what should go in the beginner's workout section of the new 5x5 description, i.e. before the SF. I've seen it before from Ripp, but could never remember where. Good post asdf.

 

[asdfzxcv]

Basically when I talked to Mark the impression I got was just focus on raising the squat,everything else is secondary to that.I was a bit skeptical about the whole ''gallon of milk'' type diet,but he said that if you put on 40lb of muscle weight and 10lb of fat,No-one is going to call you fat thats for sure.He told me ''focus on getting strong,not on looking better'' which I think is sound advice for begginers trying to build a foundation.

Mark said that the above program works for 6-12months before he has to switch them over to the single factor 5x5,provided they eat lots and re-ramp the weights when nessercary to continue gains.

I am actually going to start the begginer program by Mark Rippetoe in a few days as I will finally have access to a bench and hopefully this damn flu will be gone.

 

[Madcow2]

madcow, the workout asdf posted above is probably what should go in the beginner's workout section of the new 5x5 description, i.e. before the SF. I've seen it before from Ripp, but could never remember where. Good post asdf.

There's kind of a line there that I'd rather not cross unless he specifically wanted it. The beauty of a book like Starting Strength is that you get very detailed instruction on the lifts along with other basics including programing. Now let's face it, most of these nimrods would be unlikely to buy the book for just the exercises. These are guys who would rather spend $30 on a month's worth of some bullshit supplement than really learn to do something right from the beginning. And this is why several years down the road, they still suck but current popular culture seems to push in this direction. So what I'll probably do is put up something basic (and it'll probably wind up being a good bit like Ripp's since we both favor simplicity) and advise anyone to just buy Rippetoe's book and be done with it which is really going to be the best move for any beginner.

 

[ngates0516]

yes thank you.