3 Months Bulking - Feedback Requested

[JoeMyBro]

extra nailed this one. look into the 5x5 or the 3x5 program and i wouldnt touch those calipers again. they may be consistent but they are off alot. at 8%bf you wouldnt bother talking to us. a sorta rule of thumb is most guys see abs around 12-13%.

personally id start with the 3x5 and run that routine for 4months atleast its 3 lifts a day so if u feel u have a little extra to give throw in some dips/lat raises/leg press and you will grow.
how is your diet? getting 1-1.25g of protein per lb thats a good way to start. alot of guys notice a huge gain when they up it to 2-3 but just starting out hitting that mark will work well.

I think Sean's workout routine is actually good and I don't think its the problem. It involves 4/5 of those big compound exercises you guys have been mentioning, yet I haven't gotten to the point where I push myself to lift heavier. Perhaps all that is required of me is to keep going at this point and focus on those lifts, whilst doing all the other exercises as well as of course.

Here I'll outline my home workout for you guys to see:

Day 1: LEGS/ABS
Barbell Full Squats - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Dumbbell Lunges - 6 sets (3 sets each side), 5-7 reps
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing One-Legged Dumbbell Calf Raises 4 sets, 10-12 reps
Seated Barbell Calf Raises - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Weighted Crunches - 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Weighted Leg Raises - 1 sets, 10-12 reps


Day 2: CHEST/SHOULDERS/TRICEPS
Flat Dumbbell Press - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Incline Dumbbell Press - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Dips - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Press - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals - 1 sets, 10-12 reps
Dumbbell Skull Crushers - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Overhead Dumbbell Extensions - 1 sets, 5-7 reps


Day 3: BACK/BICEPS/FOREARMS
Deadlifts - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Bent Over Barbell Rows - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Bent Over Dumbbell Rows - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Shrugs - 2 sets, 10-12 reps
Barbell Curls - 2 sets, 5-7 reps
Standing Alternating Dumbbell Curls - 1 sets, 5-7 reps
Barbell Wrist Curls - 1 sets, 10-12 reps


So... are you guys SURE I should change my routine from this? Apparently this is the best workout I can get (safely) with a home workout with the equipment I have. I don't have a pull up bar for pull-ups for example.

 

[JoeMyBro]

By the way guys, could you help me determine the accuracy of the skinfold caliper with your personal judgements? Here is my after photos for december 30th last year, when I recorded at 7% body fat:

Link: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4024/happyjla.jpg

(by the way I have scoliosis if you are wondering why I have a curve in my back... it looks worse in other pictures lol)

...So, for example if you guys feel in general it is 9% bodyfat or higher, I will know when it says 7% its probably 2% higher -- just for an estimate since an estimate is better than nothing to track progress...

 

[c24k]

I worked out for about a year but it was all isolated machine lifts with this home gym I bought. From start to end I was lifting the same amount of weight... really sad... but I also started at 88kg and dropped my weight to 64kg while I believe maintaining most my muscle.

Natty? Well if I gained 14 pounds of fat I'm not too happy -.- and I think that's the case. Those reps you listed seem about right, but I read muscular failure is something to aim for on the set to ensure you're going harder than the previous workout.

You need fat to really build muscle. If your really low in BF% which you look ALOT less than your saying. You can only build so much muscle without bulking up. Guys that are huge on here get big from eating alot and doing heavy workouts to bulk up (yes some use gear but there are those that don't). Once you have bulked up is when you 'cut' and define your muscles. Thats what your going for. I worked out for years before i realized this. Eat big to get big lift big to get big. Once your around or over 200 is a GREAT time to cut and tone up your muscles but from your starting point you don't really have much to work with and neither do I. i used to be alot bigger but stuff happened. Anyways we are roughly the same. I'm 6'0 20 and weigh 163-164. i'm bulking up to 230 and then i'll cut down. I have a ways to go but its that 230 and then cutting that brings about the muscles. I'm a hardgainer like you and i have to eat constantly and i saw your six meals and your not eating to bulk your eating to 'cut' you'll need alot more stuff. Get some fish and steak, beef, you don't HAVE to eat clean btw. Thats an option. When your bulking pretty much anything goes. Its when your cutting and toning your body is when you need to eat clean and be on a calorie deficit. Just eat, eat, eat. Hell eat Mc Donalds if you have to I do. 2 double cheese burgers and 2 medium fries is over 1200 calories. Just try not to eat too much fast food its not good for your heart in the long run. Just eat and eat. Also NO CARDIO! This actually applies to hardgainers, we burn calories like there is no tomorrow and doing cardio just hurts you when your trying to bulk. 5x5 and be generally relaxed throughout the rest of your day. It will take some time but if you work hard as you can it will lessen the time.

 

[JoeMyBro]

Sorry I don't understand why you need fat to build muscle. Fat does not turn into muscle. You merely gain fat whilst trying to gain muscle because you need a calorie excess, right? I would love to hear reasons for why fat is physically required to actually develop muscle considering there are people who start at really low body fat % and build up significant amounts of muscle without putting on much fat (and I'm referring to all-natural bodybuilding here).

I started at 88kg and I learned it was best to cut first since I would only gain additional fat at the same time. There doesn't seem to be any reason (that I have heard of) why being "fatter" would assist in muscle growth.

Eating clean will help to maintain muscle, since eating un-clean generally means eating foods which are damaging to muscle cells and actually cause your body to become catabolic instead of anabolic (which you want). I know its optional but I'm used to eating more "healthy" now so I have absolutely no problem with it... in fact I'd prefer to eat healthy and minimize fat gain whilst building muscle.

Although I eat clean, I am also eating in a calorie excess of 500 per day. I know this because I calorie count everything I eat. It's possible theres a margin of error, but I am definately gaining "weight" so its not an issue I am having. I just want to be gaining "muscle" weight instead of "fat" weight which tells me something is wrong with my workouts. At this point my conclusion is that should continue my current routine but attempt to add 5% weight to each of the large compound movements. If I cannot lift heavier than I'll be looking into changing my routine.

If I do cardio, I eat more food to make up for it. Say, if I did 1 hour of walking I only need to eat another 200 calories to make up for it. I do not work myself, and my family will not buy steaks and such for me to eat. My main sources of protein is tuna (lean protein), whey (lean protein) and chicken (lean protein - skin not eaten).

Anyway... the only thing I can tell at this point is that I need to attempt to lift 85kg this week, and the following week 90kg. The fact is everything I've been doing SHOULD result in me being able to lift heavier.. unless I am missing something? My routine is fine - it contains all the big exercises, and in fact enthasizes on them, so I do not see a reason why the workout itself could be the problem here. Maybe this first 3 months had to happen like this, so I could get accustomed to what weight I should start at, and now I'm at the point where I need to push myself and really dig deep with the big exercises. To be fair I think I need to give it another week to make sure I'm improving, because I have definately been able to lift 5% heavier in the last two weeks, but only on the big exercises... which is the main thing I was saying about how I cant lift heavier -- I was actually refering to the smaller exercises like barbell curls, and from you guys I've learned that I shouldn't be focusing on improving with that so much, but rather the big movements which will build up my strength in those exercises in time.

 

[c24k]

1.) Sorry I don't understand why you need fat to build muscle. Fat does not turn into muscle. You merely gain fat whilst trying to gain muscle because you need a calorie excess, right? I would love to hear reasons for why fat is physically required to actually develop muscle considering there are people who start at really low body fat % and build up significant amounts of muscle without putting on much fat (and I'm referring to all-natural bodybuilding here).

2.)I started at 88kg and I learned it was best to cut first since I would only gain additional fat at the same time. There doesn't seem to be any reason (that I have heard of) why being "fatter" would assist in muscle growth.

3.) Eating clean will help to maintain muscle, since eating un-clean generally means eating foods which are damaging to muscle cells and actually cause your body to become catabolic instead of anabolic (which you want). I know its optional but I'm used to eating more "healthy" now so I have absolutely no problem with it... in fact I'd prefer to eat healthy and minimize fat gain whilst building muscle.

4.)Although I eat clean, I am also eating in a calorie excess of 500 per day. I know this because I calorie count everything I eat. It's possible theres a margin of error, but I am definately gaining "weight" so its not an issue I am having. I just want to be gaining "muscle" weight instead of "fat" weight which tells me something is wrong with my workouts. At this point my conclusion is that should continue my current routine but attempt to add 5% weight to each of the large compound movements. If I cannot lift heavier than I'll be looking into changing my routine.

5.) If I do cardio, I eat more food to make up for it. Say, if I did 1 hour of walking I only need to eat another 200 calories to make up for it. I do not work myself, and my family will not buy steaks and such for me to eat. My main sources of protein is tuna (lean protein), whey (lean protein) and chicken (lean protein - skin not eaten).

6.)Anyway... the only thing I can tell at this point is that I need to attempt to lift 85kg this week, and the following week 90kg. The fact is everything I've been doing SHOULD result in me being able to lift heavier.. unless I am missing something? My routine is fine - it contains all the big exercises, and in fact enthasizes on them, so I do not see a reason why the workout itself could be the problem here. Maybe this first 3 months had to happen like this, so I could get accustomed to what weight I should start at, and now I'm at the point where I need to push myself and really dig deep with the big exercises. To be fair I think I need to give it another week to make sure I'm improving, because I have definately been able to lift 5% heavier in the last two weeks, but only on the big exercises... which is the main thing I was saying about how I cant lift heavier -- I was actually refering to the smaller exercises like barbell curls, and from you guys I've learned that I shouldn't be focusing on improving with that so much, but rather the big movements which will build up my strength in those exercises in time.

1.) Alot of those people were genetically pre-determined to gain alot of muscle. If your an ectomorph or have a small frame with nothing to work with where else is it going to come from? I'm speaking from personal experience. I spent years i was only able to get so much without bulking up. Last year i started bulking got to 180 was working towards 210. But anyways no fat is not a necessity to build muscle. It still has alot with who you are genetically, There will always be a limit on how much muscle you can build that goes for everyone.

2.) I've heard that before. In my case it did nothing. When i started bulking and putting on weight is when i started to actually notice a difference and i didn't eat clean. For me it really made a difference. It just might for you to its worth a try.

3.) True but bulking doesn't necessarily have to be your body constantly staying in a constate state of anabolism. Eating un-clean also doesn't make you completely catabolic. Again personal experience. Staying in an Anabolic state from what i've always seen is the bodybuilders route when cutting. I've seen it for bulking to BUT that doesn't mean it works for everyone. Everyone is different. Listening to your body. I offer what i do cuz i see you where i was and i think your a hardgainer so i'm telling you what has worked for me and some others. you don't have to listen to me.

4.) I'd still go with 5x5 here. I think its your ticket. I won't say anything else about diets. since your worried about gaining fat.

5.) About your cardio walking isn't too much of a cardio exercise i meant things like jogging/running/eliptical machines/riding bicycles. How many grams of protein are you getting? Try to get at least 1.7g per pound of bodyweight.

6.) When you are working out how exactly are you going to 85kg? Are you starting at a low weight and progressively work up to 85kg, or do you warm up and jump straight to 85kg and work with that amount of weight only? And yes don't worry about isolation exercises. Just drop them really, you can still do them of course but put it at the end of your exercise, after everything else. its the big compound exercises taht puts on the weight and mass. Also using the barbell u bench with to curl weight adds good mass to your arms.

 

[dabuffguy]

Your whole diet is oatmeal, canned tuna and protein shakes? That's your problem right there bro. WTF?

Eat red meat and chicken, and eat way more carbs. Canned tuna is blech, red meat is for putting on real mass.

You need to eat FRUITS AND VEGETABLES!!!!, sweet potatoes, brown rice and a larger variety of complex carbs altogether and even some simple carbs. Oatmeal is great for breakfast, just not 5 times a day. Your body needs those vitamins and minerals coming from natural sources. You are nutrient deficient in your diet.


Tuna is low in calories. Overall, your diet really just sucks. I mean that in a neutral way. I'm not saying it to be mean, but critically it's totally true. Each one of your meals is too low in calories, mainly protein, and doesn't have enough nutrients in it.




What does your post workout meal look like? Or do you even have one? What is your pre-workout meal like?


15 pounds in 3 months is not bad. I don't know what's wrong with that. That's a decent weight gain.


Your BF is not near 8%. Don't worry about it anyways right now. Focus on size because you are lacking there.


How is the intensity in your workouts? Do you hit failure in your lifts, or do you just do your 5-7 reps per set and not push it hard?

You have to push it hard lifting. If you are not sore, you didn't lift hard enough.

Have you done the same routine for 3 months straight? If so, change it up because your body needs different growth stimulation. Increase your rep ranges and focus on hypertrophy for a while.

And do some cardio. It's good for you and helps muscle recovery. You don't have to do a lot, just 20-30 minutes 2x per week. The "NO CARDIO" notion is total bullshit. Just do it. It's not that much, and if you have lots of protein in your system while you are doing it, you aren't going to lose any muscle mass doing it twice a week for 20-30 minutes.

 

[c24k]

Your whole diet is oatmeal, canned tuna and protein shakes? That's your problem right there bro. WTF?

Eat red meat and chicken, and eat way more carbs. Canned tuna is blech, red meat is for putting on real mass.

You need to eat FRUITS AND VEGETABLES!!!!, sweet potatoes, brown rice and a larger variety of complex carbs altogether and even some simple carbs. Oatmeal is great for breakfast, just not 5 times a day. Your body needs those vitamins and minerals coming from natural sources. You are nutrient deficient in your diet.


Tuna is low in calories. Overall, your diet really just sucks. I mean that in a neutral way. I'm not saying it to be mean, but critically it's totally true. Each one of your meals is too low in calories, mainly protein, and doesn't have enough nutrients in it.




What does your post workout meal look like? Or do you even have one? What is your pre-workout meal like?


15 pounds in 3 months is not bad. I don't know what's wrong with that. That's a decent weight gain.


Your BF is not near 8%. Don't worry about it anyways right now. Focus on size because you are lacking there.


How is the intensity in your workouts? Do you hit failure in your lifts, or do you just do your 5-7 reps per set and not push it hard?

You have to push it hard lifting. If you are not sore, you didn't lift hard enough.

Have you done the same routine for 3 months straight? If so, change it up because your body needs different growth stimulation. Increase your rep ranges and focus on hypertrophy for a while.

And do some cardio. It's good for you and helps muscle recovery. You don't have to do a lot, just 20-30 minutes 2x per week. The "NO CARDIO" notion is total bullshit. Just do it. It's not that much, and if you have lots of protein in your system while you are doing it, you aren't going to lose any muscle mass doing it twice a week for 20-30 minutes.

i meant INTENSE CARDIO, at the time i didn't realize he meant he just walks, i thought he did stuff like running and jogging or riding a bicycle. I never do those for cardio trying to bulk. From MY experience and from friends i know doing cardio like i meant makes a difference, just saying no offence meant or anything.

 

[JoeMyBro]

@ c24k

I think I've got a medium-large frame. I was overweight in the first place. I have no problem gaining weight... so far it seems I just have a problem building muscle lol... but I think I'm homing in on the reasons why this is... genetics, yeah that's true. But I'm not going to use that as an excuse got to find my own way here to build muscle.

As far as cardio goes, I just go for walks. I used to run but it messes up my calves. I also swim and do laps when its not freezing.

@ dabuffguy

The problem I find with adding vegetables to my diet is I have to eat a significantly large amount to get any calories out of it. Also, these days I hear its all void of much nutrients anyway. I was looking into some kind of alternative to it which contains the nutrients I require. Currently I have a multivitamin but I think it's not enough you're right. I'm kicking myself here to ignoring my nutrients I just need some ideas so I'm not eating 24/7 chewing down mass amounts of veggies to get little nutrients out of it.

My meals are not too low in calories I eat larger portions than you think. The ONLY thing I can pick up on is the lacking in nutrients, but I always though a multivitamin would do fine... I really hate veggies to be honest yet alone the amount I'd have to eat just to get some decent calories from it.

Red meat... I actually tried to get some red meat trust me but my parents pay for all my food and they won't buy it for me so yeah... I'm looking into lean red meats though it is in my todo list. I don't see the difference between eating a red meat though. The nutrients inside are the main difference but I guess I've always neglected nutrients.

Yeah I forgot to mention, 15 pounds was probably more close to 11 pounds, since the first week shot up by 4 pounds I think that was probably just water weight because I started creatine. Plus... if I gain 15/11 pounds of fat, so what? My goal is muscle. Fat gain I'm going to have to burn off later anyway so there's nothing good about it as far as I am concerned.

At first I lifted just until 7 reps and didn't push it but the last few weeks I've been definately pushing it... I aim for failure or one rep before failure if I'm afraid of breaking my back under the deadlifts or something... gotta prevent injury thats all. But yeah I'm pushing it now.

That you mention about changing the routine... that's a myth I've read. Your muscles can't think for themselves... if anything, the routine thing is a mental thing or a placebo affect I reckon. Here's a link, read myth #3.

 

[JoeMyBro]

@ dabuffguy

What vegetable/fruit combination would be best and how much do I need? I'm going to commit to eating them, even if it means eating a sever amount... it's fine. I'd rather build muscle than always regret it just because I hate vegetables.

So far I've found this resource defining the top 10 most nutritious vegetables.

 

[JoeMyBro]

I'm trying to find a good high-potency multivitamin since my current one is just a blackmores mens daily multivitamin. Do you think this one is good? link: https://www.nutritionwarehouse.com.au/Multi-VMA-by-BSC-Body-Science-High-Potency-Multi-Vitamin-and-A-pr-11.html

Still can't figure out when, what and how much vegetables/fruit I need in my diet lol