1st cycle of Winnie

[littlebecca]

I just started a cycle of Winstrol. This is day two at 5mg. I'm not sure if its the Win or I've just had a couple of good days but so far I'm in a great mood, have a heightened sense of awareness, lots of energy.....feel like a million bucks! How fast does it usually work?

My plan is to stay at 5mg for 14 days then increase to 10mg for 14 days then back to 5mg for 14 days and off. 6 week cycle.

I'll try and update this as things progress.

Current weight is 122. The diet is still lots of egg whites, fish, steak and salad.

NOOO more chicken! If I have to eat anymore chicken I will cry! I hate it!

littlebecca

 

[Bikini Mod]

At day 2 that is just a placebo effect. You really wont see any physical effect for 2 WEEKS.

Maybe other more knowledgeable bros and broettes will jump in here but I have always been under the impression that winny is EOD. What is the rational of ramping and then down again?

Why such a short cycle?

Low dose/long cycle is ALWAYS best for women. This will cut down on the occurance/severity of sides and also lend towards better longterm gains.

 

[littlebecca]

At day 2 that is just a placebo effect. You really wont see any physical effect for 2 WEEKS.

Maybe other more knowledgeable bros and broettes will jump in here but I have always been under the impression that winny is EOD. What is the rational of ramping and then down again?

Why such a short cycle?

Low dose/long cycle is ALWAYS best for women. This will cut down on the occurance/severity of sides and also lend towards better longterm gains.

Day 3 pretty much the same, feeling great. I have a little swelling in my fingers. Could be my imagination but have an increase in sensation sexually.
I am sticking with low dose and short cycle for the first go round. I don't really know the rational of ramping down? Ramping up for tolerance.
Just playin it safe.

I have read alot and I'm gonna stick with this for now.
littlebecca

 

[needtogetaas]

Day 3 pretty much the same, feeling great. I have a little swelling in my fingers. Could be my imagination but have an increase in sensation sexually.
I am sticking with low dose and short cycle for the first go round. I don't really know the rational of ramping down? Ramping up for tolerance.
Just playin it safe.

I have read alot and I'm gonna stick with this for now.
littlebecca

Well at least you are researching.

 

[Tatyana]

Sorry ladies, I don't have any experience in this area.

I will let you know if I come across anything on the pharmocodynamics of steroids.

 

[slat1]

I have no idea why any woman would use Winstol unless they are a ProBBer!.
That said at least you started with a small amount.
Hope everything works out well for you.

 

[littlebecca]

I have no idea why any woman would use Winstol unless they are a ProBBer!.
That said at least you started with a small amount.
Hope everything works out well for you.

For the sex of course.

 

[Tatyana]

For the sex of course.

LOL!

Good answer.

The only thing I would watch out for (my first coach is an IFBB pro BBer and competed at the Olympia in the 90s):

- hair loss (and it can happen after you come off, she said some sides can show up as much as 6 months post cycle, this may be dose and length related)

- bad nails (same as above)

- thrust infections, take a pro-biotic

- any 'sore throats' may not be a sore throat, could be your voice changing.

You decide what sides you can live with.

 

[littlebecca]

LOL!

Good answer.

The only thing I would watch out for (my first coach is an IFBB pro BBer and competed at the Olympia in the 90s):

- hair loss (and it can happen after you come off, she said some sides can show up as much as 6 months post cycle, this may be dose and length related)

- bad nails (same as above)

- thrust infections, take a pro-biotic

- any 'sore throats' may not be a sore throat, could be your voice changing.

You decide what sides you can live with.

This was one of the reasons for low dose and short cycle. The best article I read specified the cycle I'm doing. It minimizes risks. Also not stacking. Have a male friend who does, of course he doesn't have to worry about hair loss, got none to lose. Not to mention his voice already changed.

Doing good on day 4. Not as intense, noticed a tight feeling, not just when pumped. No change in size or weight yet. Mostly just more energy. No increase in strength yet.

 

[slat1]

For the sex of course.

Any idea where I can get some of that... Oh wait, no source posting! LOL

 

[littlebecca]

Any idea where I can get some of that... Oh wait, no source posting! LOL

Some of what????????

Because one God already blessed you with!

By the way there was a change in the workout last night!!!

My bench increased 10lbs.! Added 5 lbs to my forearm routine and a jump from 60 to 80 lbs on my tricep routine!

My abs are getting really hard! The boyfriend likes it!

 

[littlebecca]

Day 8 not as much energy today!!!! Had a great workout last night lots of squats! I did notice a little bit of a sore throat going up to my inner ear...??
Don't know if I'm catching something from my daughter...she just had a sore throat..or maybe need to keep an eye on the vocal chords! I'll probably visit the Doc if it doesn't go away by tomorrow.

The skin on my abs appears to be thinning. No change in weight, was at 120 this morning.

littlebecca

 

[Tatyana]

Day 8 not as much energy today!!!! Had a great workout last night lots of squats! I did notice a little bit of a sore throat going up to my inner ear...??
Don't know if I'm catching something from my daughter...she just had a sore throat..or maybe need to keep an eye on the vocal chords! I'll probably visit the Doc if it doesn't go away by tomorrow.

The skin on my abs appears to be thinning. No change in weight, was at 120 this morning.

littlebecca

Thanks for the progress.

Watch the 'sore throat' thing, I have heard that it is one of the first signs of the vocal chords shortening, and the voice getting deeper.

 

[Thandie]

Thank you for the progress report; is very helpful.
And love your humor...

 

[littlebecca]

Day 9. Did a light work out last night. One of my guy friends said my hard work is payin off looked like I was getting some nice cuts.
Maybe I don't notice cause I see myself all the time........
The tape measure doesn't lie started at 12.5 inch biceps still 12.5. Weight still 120.
My other friend said my muscles are harder.
I'm going to see another friend and have my body fat % done.
The sore throat is better, I'm pretty sure I caught it from my daughter.
I have noticed a slight change in my temper. So far it has not been difficult to keep from over reacting. I think being aware of it helps. Noting the heightened sense of awareness. Hope all this stuff helps somebody...I appreciate the feed back!
Have a great day!
littlebecca

 

[Tatyana]

Have you taken your bodyfat as well Becca?

It would be interesting to see if that is shifting, as your weight may not change much if you are taking fat off and putting muscle on.

I know some of the lads call winnie a 'hardner', not necessarily a 'building' steroid.

That doesn't mean that this is true, as there is a lot of odd 'gym stories'.

 

[Mavafanculo]

Day 3 pretty much the same, feeling great. I have a little swelling in my fingers. Could be my imagination but have an increase in sensation sexually. I am sticking with low dose and short cycle for the first go round. I don't really know the rational of ramping down? Ramping up for tolerance.
Just playin it safe.

I have read alot and I'm gonna stick with this for now.
littlebecca

no thats not your imagination -- winny competitively binds to SHBG and frees testosterone. your libido as well as your sensitivity should be increased.

theres other details but maybe I'll tell tat, and she'll tell you lol

 

[Mavafanculo]

Have you taken your bodyfat as well Becca?

It would be interesting to see if that is shifting, as your weight may not change much if you are taking fat off and putting muscle on.

I know some of the lads call winnie a 'hardner', not necessarily a 'building' steroid.

That doesn't mean that this is true, as there is a lot of odd 'gym stories'.

^ true for men, but because winny have much lower natural androgen levels, the kick from winny will cause anabolism with sufficient protein/calories. but yes its best used as a "cutting drug"

 

[littlebecca]

Have you taken your bodyfat as well Becca?

It would be interesting to see if that is shifting, as your weight may not change much if you are taking fat off and putting muscle on.

I know some of the lads call winnie a 'hardner', not necessarily a 'building' steroid.

That doesn't mean that this is true, as there is a lot of odd 'gym stories'.

I'll let you know % B.F. as soon as I get it done. I was at 24% but that wasn't done with calipers. It was done on an electronic scale.

The lady I'm going to says that is not as acurate. She thinks I'm closer to 15-17%

 

[littlebecca]

no thats not your imagination -- winny competitively binds to SHBG and frees testosterone. your libido as well as your sensitivity should be increased.

theres other details but maybe I'll tell tat, and she'll tell you lol

I thought it was my imagination because it seemed to hit very quick!

 

[littlebecca]

^ true for men, but because winny have much lower natural androgen levels, the kick from winny will cause anabolism with sufficient protein/calories. but yes its best used as a "cutting drug"

So far I am "cautiously" enjoying my cycle! Watching for any interesting new growth in other places!! YIKES

 

[littlebecca]

12 Days into cycle....Today I weigh 125. That's a 4 lb. gain. I can tell alot of it is water. I have swelling in my fingers. The sore throat is gone. I have a strength increase, not huge but lots more endurance! Overall gain in strength of 5-10 lbs and able to do lots more reps. I have some joint pain in my elbows and wrist. All of the muscle feels tight even when I'm not working out...Managing my temper is getting easier, like I said before, it helps to know what is causing it. 95% of the time I feel very happy. I was happy to begin with and am not easily angered. I would say if you're the type to anger easily BEEE Careful! I should also let you know I went from 5mg to 10 mg on the 10th day. I spoke with a DR. friend, he said the reason for starting low and going up is to let your body adjust, same for tapering down. He thinks I seem to be tolerating it well. I will have blood work done at the end, checking liver values and all.

 

[Mavafanculo]

So far I am "cautiously" enjoying my cycle! Watching for any interesting new growth in other places!! YIKES

I guess Tat relayed my other points lol

 

[littlebecca]

I guess Tat relayed my other points lol

What were your other points? I'm curious and want to make sure I didn't miss something.

 

[Mavafanculo]

What were your other points? I'm curious and want to make sure I didn't miss something.

check your PM's lol

 

[littlebecca]

13 days. I have a little more definition especially in the upper body. I've gained strength and endurance. My weight fluxed today from 128 back to 126. Crazy!!! My fingers are swollen! Retaining lots of water. Creatine has a similar effect but not as bad. The diet today consisted of Bananas, Yogurt, 1/2 cup of nuts, an orange with cottage cheese, talapia and asparagus and 1 cup of coffee. This stuff makes me hungry!! Lots of water.

 

[Tatyana]

I am really enjoying reading your winnie blog.

Interesting to note what is going on. It could also be valuable to you for any future cycles if you do one.

Our memories are not always that great at remembering what we felt and what happened when.

 

[slat1]

Karma for checking in with a DR. More people should do that!

 

[littlebecca]

Day 15. Last night was squat night....reps of 195 lbs. Had plenty of power! I know I could go heavier but I'm backing off...Don't want any injuries....Weight is back down at 123. still have swelling in my fingers. My period came as usual...interesting...I thought that might go away. The sore throat is back...hmmmm. The labido thing has died down some. My legs are bigger and the fat around my knees is slowly leaving but with the water weight I'm not seeing much definition in that area. The upper body is great but it was before. I'm not seeing any real significant "shocking" changes. My Dr. friend will be back on Monday and we will schedule a physical and blood work then.

 

[Mavafanculo]

13 days. I have a little more definition especially in the upper body. I've gained strength and endurance. My weight fluxed today from 128 back to 126. Crazy!!! My fingers are swollen! Retaining lots of water. Creatine has a similar effect but not as bad. The diet today consisted of Bananas, Yogurt, 1/2 cup of nuts, an orange with cottage cheese, talapia and asparagus and 1 cup of coffee. This stuff makes me hungry!! Lots of water.

unless you ate a whole school of talapia, you're not getting enough protein lol.

I'll let Tat take over since I'm not as familiar with protein requirements for females, but as a general rule anytime you're on AAS, you should be consuming alot more protein than usual to take advantage of the enhanced protein synthesis that can occur. many find they actually gain lean mass while losing fat when they start a cutting cycle.

 

[Mo'Muscles]

Karma for checking in with a DR. More people should do that!

yes, I agree, more people need the blood work and doctor advice. I am not sure why people avoid it.
Also , excellent advice on the upping protein while on AAS.

 

[littlebecca]

yes, I agree, more people need the blood work and doctor advice. I am not sure why people avoid it.
Also , excellent advice on the upping protein while on AAS.

I think most people avoid it because most Dr.s won't agree to help you. They are against it or don't want to be involved. I'm just lucky enough to have a friend I trust.

I left out the protien shake. I should mention that I'm using a good quality protien.

Here's a question for you....how come they give you the nastiest GAS on the planet????

 

[littlebecca]

Okay so I started this cycle to work on my legs........I go to the gym.......this person I know asks me...while I'm doing squats...Are you working on your legs....Sign # 1...he's bright...He tells me I should try running????? Then tells me about a marathon...he was in again tonight he is becoming OBNOXIOUS!!! I wish he'd GO RUN!! Then a friend of mine "who by the way looks incredible" tells me he is squating light, lots of reps, 6 nights a week???? OKAY I'm considering the squats. Says he alternates front squats every other night. His program does 96 reps total??? Seems insane but he does look good.

 

[chazk]

at 5mg a day then up to 10mg a day for 6 weeks. You are not going to notice alot of changes . You're skin will tighten up ,more vascular,water will seem to be sucked out of the face and a over all hardened look (if you're Bf% is low enough)
that is what winstrol is perscribed for edema (excess water retention) winstrol is the happy drug choice for strippers,swimwear models , figure models becuase it is cheap and works fast
10mg is the highest you should ever go and even that is pushing the line. Injects eod or oral ed.

If I were you i would do your next cycle with anavar it will cost alot more but the side effects will be next to nill at 5-10mg a day

 

[chazk]

unless you ate a whole school of talapia, you're not getting enough protein lol.

I'll let Tat take over since I'm not as familiar with protein requirements for females, but as a general rule anytime you're on AAS, you should be consuming alot more protein than usual to take advantage of the enhanced protein synthesis that can occur. many find they actually gain lean mass while losing fat when they start a cutting cycle.

I made the comment above becuase O assumed her diet was on key , training was platued out and she was dabbling with winstrol to bust through a platu.

I just read the entire thread and saw the diet part like you mentioned as well is no where even on key.
That was my first thought.... I see her diet lacks . She should be at the 120 to 160gr mark eazy.. Meaning 25grams of protien 6 times a day.

I do not think she is even ready to dabble with roids until she is has dedicated 2 yrs training and following a protien rich diet..

Steroids are used to polish a already great physic that has had years of proper training and dieting . Steroids should NEVER be the foundation of the physic one should build a base on their own.

Listen I know the media has built up steriods as being the only thing weightlifters bodybuilder and sports players use, the media makes it look like a person takes a pill or a shot and turns into popeye and starts making super human muscle and strenght gains. You can do alot on you're own just by following a excellent diet and strenght training program never forget that

 

[littlebecca]

I made the comment above becuase O assumed her diet was on key , training was platued out and she was dabbling with winstrol to bust through a platu.

I just read the entire thread and saw the diet part like you mentioned as well is no where even on key.
That was my first thought.... I see her diet lacks . She should be at the 120 to 160gr mark eazy.. Meaning 25grams of protien 6 times a day.

I do not think she is even ready to dabble with roids until she is has dedicated 2 yrs training and following a protien rich diet..

Steroids are used to polish a already great physic that has had years of proper training and dieting . Steroids should NEVER be the foundation of the physic one should build a base on their own.


Listen I know the media has built up steriods as being the only thing weightlifters bodybuilder and sports players use, the media makes it look like a person takes a pill or a shot and turns into popeye and starts making super human muscle and strenght gains. You can do alot on you're own just by following a excellent diet and strenght training program never forget that

Chazk thanks for the advice. You should know that I have been training for 3.5 yrs. I train 2.5 hours a day 7 days a week at a minimum. Height 5'2, weight 120, BF13% and dropping. Did lots of studying for the past year before I made this decision. So I wouldn't say "STEROIDS" are the foundation of my physic. Far from it! I had alot of help making the decision to TRY it. I have posted my experience for educational purposes....GOOD or BAD. My protien and my Calorie intake have been looked at by a Dr. and I'm going to stick to the plan.
Again Thanks

 

[chazk]

Chazk thanks for the advice. You should know that I have been training for 3.5 yrs. I train 2.5 hours a day 7 days a week at a minimum. Height 5'2, weight 120, BF13% and dropping. Did lots of studying for the past year before I made this decision. So I wouldn't say "STEROIDS" are the foundation of my physic. Far from it! I had alot of help making the decision to TRY it. I have posted my experience for educational purposes....GOOD or BAD. My protien and my Calorie intake have been looked at by a Dr. and I'm going to stick to the plan.
Again Thanks

But does the doctor that examined you're calorie content know you are on steroids ? Someone on steroids does NOT follow a diet of a normal person. Unless they want to look like a normal person and get little if no results from steroids.
Being on a normal diet is for normal people. You are on steroids. Go seek the advice of a sports med doc .You're doctor is schooled in what normal people's dietary intake is required to maintain health. A sports med doc is schooled in dietary intake or people performing a sport .

Btw training 2.5 hours a day 7 days a week with such little calorie intake is overtraining you might as well just throw the steroids in the trash.
My advice from here on out is to seek a weightrainer/personal trainer/ strenght coach someone with 5yrs+ training under her belt and has placed at a state level in bodybuilding or figure shows ,pay for 12 sessions and listen to her about training and nutrition.

 

[Mo'Muscles]

But does the doctor that examined you're calorie content know you are on steroids ? Someone on steroids does NOT follow a diet of a normal person. Unless they want to look like a normal person and get little if no results from steroids.
Being on a normal diet is for normal people. You are on steroids. Go seek the advice of a sports med doc .You're doctor is schooled in what normal people's dietary intake is required to maintain health. A sports med doc is schooled in dietary intake or people performing a sport .

Btw training 2.5 hours a day 7 days a week with such little calorie intake is overtraining you might as well just throw the steroids in the trash.
My advice from here on out is to seek a weightrainer/personal trainer/ strenght coach someone with 5yrs+ training under her belt and has placed at a state level in bodybuilding or figure shows ,pay for 12 sessions and listen to her about training and nutrition.

she is seeing a doctor who knows about her use. Also why would she needs to see a trainer or coach who has placed in body building or figure? Why not just seek out advise from someone schooled in it? What if a strongwoman had the right knowledge and expertise? Would she pass her up because she is not 10% BF?

As a lurker I did appreciate the advise for more protein tho!

 

[chazk]

she is seeing a doctor who knows about her use. Also why would she needs to see a trainer or coach who has placed in body building or figure? Why not just seek out advise from someone schooled in it? What if a strongwoman had the right knowledge and expertise? Would she pass her up because she is not 10% BF?

As a lurker I did appreciate the advise for more protein tho!

she is seeing a " friend doctor " not a sports med MD.

She needs to seek out the advice of a comp figure/bodybuilder . Why ? becuase they live the life and will educate her on diet and excersize . MD's do not go to school to learn how to gain muscle and compete.
This is her only body she gets one shot at it. No need to
" experiment " with drugs that cuase serious side effects unless she is willing to give it it 100% and learn everything she can about the sport.

After reading into this more. Seems she will do what ever she wants to do anyways.

If she wants to be a bodybuilder she must eat, train and live as a bodybuilder.
The most exp part and time consuming part of bodybuilding is not in the gym , it is shopping, cooking and preparing meals.
Bodybuilding is a 24/7 thing not just popping a pill ,hitting the gym and eating a few fruits and piece if meat for dinner.

I have trained many men and women over the years. I end up going to a clients house throwing out all the junk and shit food then taking them to the store shopping every week then finally after a few months they learn how to eat correct. It does not happen over night.
Once people get reprogramed how to eat the progress comes really fast.

Bananas = 1 cup zero protien 200 calories

Yogurt = serving average 150 calories 8 grams or protien

1/2 cup of nuts = average 400 calories 13 grams of protien

orange with cottage cheese = 1 cup orange 80 caloroes 1 gram of protien cottage cheese 1 serving 13 grams of protien 80 calories

talapia and asparagus and 1 cup of coffee. = talapia 20 grams of protien 110 calories ,asparagus 1 cup 30 calories 3 grams of protien

if anyone thinks 1000 calories a day with 58 grams of protien is a diet for a trainer on steroids they are living in a fantasy world .
It is not even a diet for a average person that just excersizes each day , hell it is borderline starvation for just a normal everyday do nothing sit at home women if a doctor tells someone to eat 1000 calories a day for a girl that works out 2 1/2 hours a day 7 days a week that doctor needs to have his lic pulled and be sent to the looney bin for malpractice .

 

[Tatyana]

she is seeing a doctor who knows about her use. Also why would she needs to see a trainer or coach who has placed in body building or figure? Why not just seek out advise from someone schooled in it? What if a strongwoman had the right knowledge and expertise? Would she pass her up because she is not 10% BF?

As a lurker I did appreciate the advise for more protein tho!

Just as personal trainers, hairdressers, cooks etc, vary in their skills and abilities, so do doctors.

I have an awesome GP, actually, most of the GPs in my surgery are great, but there are one or two that go 'by the book' and would discourage me from eating a lot of protein.

Unless it is the doctor's personal interest, they get something like 4-28 hours of training in nutrition in their education.

I had some nutritional training in mine, I am a medical professional, one lecture, three hours, but on total parenteral nutrition, which is for people who are tube or intravenously fed in ITU/HDU - intensive or high-dependency treatment units.

If the doctor is a sports doctor, I am sure they will be much better, I also know a few of these who have been of great assistance, although mostly with injuries.

 

[Tatyana]

Okay so I started this cycle to work on my legs........I go to the gym.......this person I know asks me...while I'm doing squats...Are you working on your legs....Sign # 1...he's bright...He tells me I should try running????? Then tells me about a marathon...he was in again tonight he is becoming OBNOXIOUS!!! I wish he'd GO RUN!! Then a friend of mine "who by the way looks incredible" tells me he is squating light, lots of reps, 6 nights a week???? OKAY I'm considering the squats. Says he alternates front squats every other night. His program does 96 reps total??? Seems insane but he does look good.

Everyone is different, and if you have great genetics, this type of 'over-training' will work, but it is not something you could follow for a long time.

This is the most we know about muscle growth

1. Weight training causes micro tears and induces inflammation and various protien synthesis pathways in the muscle

2. You need food to take adavantage of this, in particular protein, which is the building block of muscle

3. You need to rest. Muscle growth does not happen while you are constantly breaking the muscle down. It happens when you are resting.

Becca, when you say you are training 7 days a week, do you ever have a rest day or take a week off?

Have you been doing that for a long time?

Also, what does the 2.5 h in the gym involve? Does that include cardio and let's say a steam and sauna, or is that all with weights?

In general, from what I have heard, and what I have found from experience, is that any more time than one hour in the gym is over-training, which is as detrimental to muscle growth as not training at all.

More is not better with regards to training.

Over-training results in muscle fatigue, increased cortisol levels, the stress hormone, which will tear down your muscle to make glucose, but it will more than likely deposit all that glucose as fat around the bell, as well as result in CNS (central nervous system) fatigue.

I have been on a 30 -60 min (usually 45 min max, and that is myself and my training buddy) four times a week program (sometimes three) for close to 4 months now (it's my new coach, but I trained similarly before) and I think I have put on about 2-4 pounds of muscle, naturally.

All my lifts have increased, some quite a bit, especially for things like legs and back (up to 50 lb more).

Did your doctor also put in pre and post workout nutrition?

 

[Mo'Muscles]

chazk, sorry I thought she had said it was a sports doctor.

I also was just suggesting do not shoot a trainer who is NOT a body builder. They can coach as well, even if they have zero interest in symmetry themselves. As Tatyana said, each professional is different from another one.

Becca, you do train WAY too much..and how do you know you are 13% BF?

 

[Thandie]

I think most people avoid it because most Dr.s won't agree to help you. They are against it or don't want to be involved. I'm just lucky enough to have a friend I trust.

I left out the protien shake. I should mention that I'm using a good quality protien.

Here's a question for you....how come they give you the nastiest GAS on the planet????

That protein powder probably doesn't work for you. You have to keep trying until you find one you like and agrees with you. For instance, I'm lactose intolerant and have to be careful the protein I'm taking doesn't contain any milk. It shouldn't make you gassy or you wont be taking it for long..

 

[littlebecca]

she is seeing a " friend doctor " not a sports med MD.

She needs to seek out the advice of a comp figure/bodybuilder . Why ? becuase they live the life and will educate her on diet and excersize . MD's do not go to school to learn how to gain muscle and compete.
This is her only body she gets one shot at it. No need to
" experiment " with drugs that cuase serious side effects unless she is willing to give it it 100% and learn everything she can about the sport.

After reading into this more. Seems she will do what ever she wants to do anyways.

If she wants to be a bodybuilder she must eat, train and live as a bodybuilder.
The most exp part and time consuming part of bodybuilding is not in the gym , it is shopping, cooking and preparing meals.
Bodybuilding is a 24/7 thing not just popping a pill ,hitting the gym and eating a few fruits and piece if meat for dinner.

I have trained many men and women over the years. I end up going to a clients house throwing out all the junk and shit food then taking them to the store shopping every week then finally after a few months they learn how to eat correct. It does not happen over night.
Once people get reprogramed how to eat the progress comes really fast.

Bananas = 1 cup zero protien 200 calories

Yogurt = serving average 150 calories 8 grams or protien

1/2 cup of nuts = average 400 calories 13 grams of protien

orange with cottage cheese = 1 cup orange 80 caloroes 1 gram of protien cottage cheese 1 serving 13 grams of protien 80 calories

talapia and asparagus and 1 cup of coffee. = talapia 20 grams of protien 110 calories ,asparagus 1 cup 30 calories 3 grams of protien

if anyone thinks 1000 calories a day with 58 grams of protien is a diet for a trainer on steroids they are living in a fantasy world .
It is not even a diet for a average person that just excersizes each day , hell it is borderline starvation for just a normal everyday do nothing sit at home women if a doctor tells someone to eat 1000 calories a day for a girl that works out 2 1/2 hours a day 7 days a week that doctor needs to have his lic pulled and be sent to the looney bin for malpractice .

Yes he is a sport Dr. That was one day of my diet. The majority of the week is ALOT of egg whites in addition to protien shakes about three a day. I'm not looking for a change that would make me HUGE. Things are taking shape.

 

[littlebecca]

Everyone is different, and if you have great genetics, this type of 'over-training' will work, but it is not something you could follow for a long time.

This is the most we know about muscle growth

1. Weight training causes micro tears and induces inflammation and various protien synthesis pathways in the muscle

2. You need food to take adavantage of this, in particular protein, which is the building block of muscle

3. You need to rest. Muscle growth does not happen while you are constantly breaking the muscle down. It happens when you are resting.

Becca, when you say you are training 7 days a week, do you ever have a rest day or take a week off?

Have you been doing that for a long time?

Also, what does the 2.5 h in the gym involve? Does that include cardio and let's say a steam and sauna, or is that all with weights?

In general, from what I have heard, and what I have found from experience, is that any more time than one hour in the gym is over-training, which is as detrimental to muscle growth as not training at all.

More is not better with regards to training.

Over-training results in muscle fatigue, increased cortisol levels, the stress hormone, which will tear down your muscle to make glucose, but it will more than likely deposit all that glucose as fat around the bell, as well as result in CNS (central nervous system) fatigue.

I have been on a 30 -60 min (usually 45 min max, and that is myself and my training buddy) four times a week program (sometimes three) for close to 4 months now (it's my new coach, but I trained similarly before) and I think I have put on about 2-4 pounds of muscle, naturally.

All my lifts have increased, some quite a bit, especially for things like legs and back (up to 50 lb more).

Did your doctor also put in pre and post workout nutrition?

Thanks Tat, Yes he did. The training includes a half hour of cardio pre-workout. Stretching and a different muscle group each day except abs, calves and forearms everyday. Yes I take time off between the heavy training. In fact I just booked 7 days in Mexico!!! We cut my intake back to 5 mg. got rid of the sore throat! I am getting what I want out of the cycle. I had hit a wall with my legs. With what I have done so far I should be able to maintain the cuts with no problem. I have to be done with this by the end of the month. Cutting was the reason for the lean diet. I am back down to 120 lbs. and am not having the fluxuations.

 

[littlebecca]

chazk, sorry I thought she had said it was a sports doctor.

I also was just suggesting do not shoot a trainer who is NOT a body builder. They can coach as well, even if they have zero interest in symmetry themselves. As Tatyana said, each professional is different from another one.

Becca, you do train WAY too much..and how do you know you are 13% BF?

13% was done with calipers at the fitness center by a trainer, she does the jazzercise and aerobic stuff. She took a measurement from several places and averaged it. I'm not competing in Body Building so I don't wanna get to 2-3%. My Dr. tells me that's really hard on the body. The goal was to achieve the definition in my legs. I did add some size to my upper body. Just a 1/2 inch. My upper body was already very cut up. The person who coaches me holds a couple of World titles in power-lifting. He is retired for the most part. We only power lift 3 days a week. Everyday is not a heavy lifting day. Lately we have been benching 2 days a week and training legs 2 days a week. The other 3 days have been spent on shoulders, back and bi's.
Bench days are chest and tri's. Average half hour to 45 min. cardio. and the usual abs, calves and forearms. The abs calves and forearms have a different routine each day.

 

[Tatyana]

13% was done with calipers at the fitness center by a trainer, she does the jazzercise and aerobic stuff. She took a measurement from several places and averaged it. I'm not competing in Body Building so I don't wanna get to 2-3%. My Dr. tells me that's really hard on the body. The goal was to achieve the definition in my legs. I did add some size to my upper body. Just a 1/2 inch. My upper body was already very cut up. The person who coaches me holds a couple of World titles in power-lifting. He is retired for the most part. We only power lift 3 days a week. Everyday is not a heavy lifting day. Lately we have been benching 2 days a week and training legs 2 days a week. The other 3 days have been spent on shoulders, back and bi's.
Bench days are chest and tri's. Average half hour to 45 min. cardio. and the usual abs, calves and forearms. The abs calves and forearms have a different routine each day.

That is a seriously low bodyfat, and really, I think only the IFBB pros hit that.

Women can compete at a higher bodyfat and look SHREDDED between 8-12% for BBing and for figure 12-14% (they don't want the shredded look).

Really glad to hear that you are working with a sports doctor and ex-powerlifter.

 

[littlebecca]

That is a seriously low bodyfat, and really, I think only the IFBB pros hit that.

Women can compete at a higher bodyfat and look SHREDDED between 8-12% for BBing and for figure 12-14% (they don't want the shredded look).

Really glad to hear that you are working with a sports doctor and ex-powerlifter.

As far as I know it's only the pros. I know when I lose weight I lose alot of strength. The goal here certainly wasn't about weight loss. And to those concerned with my diet......I totally blew it today!

I celebrated my B-Day with some friends from the office! Peach milk shake and Bread Pudding UGGG. I'm supposed to lift tonight and I'm too full!

Thanks Tat

 

[Mo'Muscles]

Woman have 9% essential body fat. When you near that or go below it you risk side effects that are very detrimental to your health.
Becca are you normally a pear shape? Holding fat and not feeling cut when you are 13% BF....have you had your estrogen levels checked?

 

[Tatyana]

Woman have 9% essential body fat. When you near that or go below it you risk side effects that are very detrimental to your health.
Becca are you normally a pear shape? Holding fat and not feeling cut when you are 13% BF....have you had your estrogen levels checked?

I have heard essential fat levels from 12-14%, I know my period stops at around 10%, I think it probably varies a bit from person to person.

As to how detrimental it is, it could be an interesting debate, maybe we should start another thread.

I know I hold more fat on my lower half than upper half, and I have heard that it can occur due to a deficit of essential fatty acids.

 

[Mo'Muscles]

I know I hold more fat on my lower half than upper half, and I have heard that it can occur due to a deficit of essential fatty acids.

Do you have data on this? I would LOVE to read that!
I have plenty of essential fat, must be why my legs are the leanest part of me LOL

 

[Tatyana]

Do you have data on this? I would LOVE to read that!
I have plenty of essential fat, must be why my legs are the leanest part of me LOL

No I don't, it is from someone who preps a lot of FBBers for comps though.

 

[Mo'Muscles]

No I don't, it is from someone who preps a lot of FBBers for comps though.

a solid theory for sure! I just did not know if it was tested or anything. I have read/heard estrogen causes lower body fat stores.....so I wonder if uber lean and increased estrogen go hand in hand...which makes no damn sense...

 

[littlebecca]

I will ask my Dr. friend about it. He has told me higher estrogen can cause fluid retention. There is a balance and we can't continuously medicate ourselves to maintain it. I will tell you he has warned me about staying on winny or anything else for too long would have a serious impact on my health because it's not natural!
I've achieved what I wanted for the time being. Life is resuming some sense of normallcy. I agree about starting a new thread. I'll see what I can find out from the Doc.

 

[slat1]

I think most people avoid it because most Dr.s won't agree to help you. They are against it or don't want to be involved. I'm just lucky enough to have a friend I trust.

I left out the protien shake. I should mention that I'm using a good quality protien.

Here's a question for you....how come they give you the nastiest GAS on the planet????

I find if I am eating super clean I get no gas issues what so ever. If I throw in some simple carbs it destroys my stomach.

 

[slat1]

Thanks Tat, Yes he did. The training includes a half hour of cardio pre-workout. Stretching and a different muscle group each day except abs, calves and forearms everyday. Yes I take time off between the heavy training. In fact I just booked 7 days in Mexico!!! We cut my intake back to 5 mg. got rid of the sore throat! I am getting what I want out of the cycle. I had hit a wall with my legs. With what I have done so far I should be able to maintain the cuts with no problem. I have to be done with this by the end of the month. Cutting was the reason for the lean diet. I am back down to 120 lbs. and am not having the fluxuations.

Still keep an eye on your throat. 5mgs can still cause sides. They just take a little longer to show up.

 

[Tatyana]

I will ask my Dr. friend about it. He has told me higher estrogen can cause fluid retention. There is a balance and we can't continuously medicate ourselves to maintain it. I will tell you he has warned me about staying on winny or anything else for too long would have a serious impact on my health because it's not natural!
I've achieved what I wanted for the time being. Life is resuming some sense of normallcy. I agree about starting a new thread. I'll see what I can find out from the Doc.

Does that mean you have finished this cycle now?

If so I would love to hear what you have achieved.

 

[littlebecca]

Hey Tat,
I haven't taken any measuements yet. The 30th is the last day for me. I finished earlier than originally planned. I just needed a break through on my legs. My weight has balanced back out at 120. My quads have alot more definition. I lost most of the fat around my knees, have a good V above my knees and my calves are cut. I could keep going but I want to try and maintain this on my own. I may still try a cycle of Var but will put some distance between this cycle and the next. I really felt like I was crossing the line by doing this cycle. It was a good experience. I got ALOT of vascularity. I'll try and get you an update soon. I have blood vessels I didn't know existed (figuretively speaking).