Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Sup Ya'll... I've been reading this forum for awhile now and got some good information from it. I just ordered my Sustanon cycle...12 week cycle... I'm 6'2 213 with 17% body fat... I've been working out for about a year and came down from 230 28% body fat... Will the sustanon help me shed some more fat..I also wanted to gain some strenght, I've been lifting the same crap for awhile... Thanks in advance..
1st cycle, need help..
- Thread starter afgab14
- Start date
swordfish151
New member
afgab14 said:
Thats good progress bro..from 28% to 17%...what ever your doing keep doing it....i would hold off on the sust though...seems like your doing fine without it...how old are you? And why are you considering "sust" to cut? its used normaly to "bulk" up.....but alot will say you can "cut" on any aas its all in the diet...
Thanks Sword... That's a good question....I'm actually trying to gain solid 20lbs of muscle, if you call that bulking than thats what I want... But I am also hoping that during this process I cut up as well... The sust is the only AAS I thought was suitable considering all the sides of the others... I first wanted to do Winny but I read on here how it messes with the hair line and I am not taking that chance...But mainly I'm after strenght... I have 2 partners in the GYM and they've been kicking my ass on the bench and I'm sick of it...... What would be a good diet for sust cycle... should I be eating more or less? Right now I'm on a 1500 cal cycle...
afgab14 said:
Those calories are way too low. That's why your strength isn't increasing, and it will also slow down your metabolism. Eat somewhere around 2500, with 1.5g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Testosterone will help you lose fat and gain some muscle. I would suggest 3000 calories on cycle if you're trying to cut up, but you will sacrifice some muscle.
Last edited:
swordfish151
New member
afgab14 said:
like azul said bro, your cals are way to low!!! what are you eating??
babbabuee
New member
good luck trying to add 20lbs of muscle while trying to shed some fat. I would keep dieting until your leaner and then cycle. but hey it's been a whole year and you've been making some good progress, so hit the juice. Seriously, I'm just guessing, but I'll bet your problem can be solved with proper training/dieting.
Really, not trying to bust on you, but when someone asks, "should I be eating more or less?" that's the first clue that this person isn't ready for gear.
Really, not trying to bust on you, but when someone asks, "should I be eating more or less?" that's the first clue that this person isn't ready for gear.
G
gymboy70
Guest
Hey bro - the sustonon will make you retain water becuase its test but if you hit the cardio after your weight lifting for a minimum of 30 minutes per day you will lean up.
Gymboy
Gymboy
Boy this is some valuble information, I wish I'd known this place when I first started working out. Sword I'm pretty much eating cereal for breakfest, roast beef sandwitch for lunch, and some grilled chicken for dinner (some times cereal for dinner)... But I think Azul had a good point, I think I'm not getting stronger cus I don't eat enough.... But I'm besically getting on a cycle cus I've not seen any gains both muscle and strenght for the last 3 months... I'm hoping the sust can give me a boost....
P.S. Neo You said Triceps will help my bench??
P.S. Neo You said Triceps will help my bench??
swordfish151
New member
afgab14 said:
slow down cowboy...the reason you have not seen any gains is CLEARLY because you are not eating enough cals...you eat like that and take sust..then your wasting your time and money..so far you seem like your listening...so LISTEN UP....get your DIET down first..consume more cals and you will see that your "hump" was easily overcome with proper nutrition...do this first...hold on to the sust for later...but get this down right first before you go and waste your money.
afgab14 said:
It seems like you're definitely not eating enough protein. Fix your diet and your strength will increase.
Your triceps and shoulders are used for bench pressing along with your chest. Weak triceps=weak bench, but weak chest doesn't necessarily mean weak bench press. Your triceps are extremely important for that movement, and I've heard that some of the world's strongest powerlifters think triceps are even more important than your chest for benching.
How do I consume more cals and not gain fat??...I know that sounds pretty stupid but, my problem is that when ever I eat more I get fatter...By the way I already ordered the sust and I hope I dont get scammed, but that's another story... Who is a moderator in here and how do I get in touch with them to check a source...
Azul.. thanks for the tip on the tricep...I think that's why my bench sucks cus I've been neglecting my triceps.... Whats a good tricep workout for strenght... I do them randomly without knowing which one is better than the other....
Azul.. thanks for the tip on the tricep...I think that's why my bench sucks cus I've been neglecting my triceps.... Whats a good tricep workout for strenght... I do them randomly without knowing which one is better than the other....
secure e- mail a mod, no PM's! You need to increase calories... you can eat a lot more calories to just maintain. INcrease protein and Low GI Carbs.. also good fats should come in the form of fish/ flax/ olive oil, fish, peanut butter, nuts etc. How old are u btw? I just started a cycle and I had 11 meals yesterday and I am en route for another 10 -11 today for about 4500- 5000 calories... gotta eat big to gain weight , but if u folllow a good clean bulkin diet, u will gain minimal fat
swordfish151
New member
am i the only one seeing something here...he is planning on taking sust..eats 1500 cals a day, doesnt know about training since he is asking about tricep excerises and seems shocked that it would aid in your chest development...dude...not flamming you but really...check your diet and get your routine down first...learn about those 2 first before you start any aas...
Read this... (a post by RADAR)
at 19 i weighed 115 pounds, i reached my heaviest 280 after i turned 50.
Heres some important info.What is the most anabolic substance known to man? If you said food then you are 100 percent correct. It is absolutely impossible to put muscle on without enough nutrients to support the process. You can train day after day, month after month, and still see absolutely nothing new in the mirror if you are not eating enough.
Taking this into consideration, it would stand to reason that the more food you consume, the higher an anabolic response your body will have after a brutal workout. So if you were looking for a muscle building magic bullet then you have no further to look than your refrigerator! Go stand in your kitchen for a minute. Look around, you are completely surrounded by the most anabolic substance in the world! You can almost feel its power as if the cabinets were about to explode. For if you consume the correct amount of macronutrients you will undoubtedly experience a surge of muscle growth that you never imagined possible!
Everything I have ever done has been to the extreme. Whether at work or play I have always attempted to break barriers. I believe that this is the mentality a bodybuilder must have if he/she is to succeed! Therefore, you can imagine what transpired when I first discovered the anabolic power of food. I stuffed myself with it!
Make no mistake about it, you will never become huge on 2,500 calories a day! No matter what any sell out magazine tells you. I know that allot of you are thinking, " what about my abs? I don't want to lose sight of them." Have you ever seen pro bodybuilders in the off season? They are tanks! Lee Priest competes at 225 and has gotten up to 300 pounds in the off season. While I am not going to ask you to go to these extremes, you must sacrifice by gaining a small amount of fat if you ever hope to add serious muscle mass. Guess what? When you diet the fat off after a bulk, your abs will still be there, and with them, a whole new layer of lean muscle mass that you can show off at the beach! Remember bodybuilding is a process of building the body up and then chiseling it down again. You must understand that you cannot build anything without the proper materials and that is what "Diet" is all About. Here's what I am going to do, I will post a mass building diet that is meant to build muscle, while keeping fat gain to a minimum. I will accomplish this by sticking with extremely clean eating!
Components :
Protein - I can talk all day long about the importance of protein! But I will sum it up by saying that this macronutrient contains the building blocks of muscle tissue! Without the proper amount of protein you can kiss muscle gains goodbye! I would recommend a minimum of 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight a day from sources such as chicken, fish, turkey, steak, skim milk, egg whites and protein powders. Therefore, if you weigh 200 pounds, you should consume 200 to 300 grams per day. Lastly, I would stay away from foods such as bacon and ribs. All the meat you eat should be lean.
Carbohydrates - Obviously you cannot induce muscle growth without intense workouts. Well, there is no way that you can train at an optimal level without the bodies chief source of fuel. The Carbohydrate. This macronutrient not only fuels us, but it releases one of the body's most anabolic hormones in response to its ingestion. This hormone is called insulin, and it increases the uptake of protein into our muscles tremendously. Carbs also spare protein so that it can be used to build muscle as opposed to being burned as energy (see note). You should consume 2.5 to 3.5 g of carbohydrates a day. That said, a 200 pound man would consume 500 to 700 grams of carbs a day from complex carbohydrates such oatmeal, and wheat bread.
Note: The body has the capability to convert other macros into glucose. Such a process is known as gluconeogenesis. Mr. Knowlden discusses this in The Window Of Opportunity. Here is an excerpt:
Cortisol literally converts muscle tissue to proteins for conversion into glucose. This is your body’s way of producing energy when all readily available energy (glucose) and stored forms (glycogen) of energy have been expended. To compensate for this depletion of energy, your body will go into a process called gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.
Essential Fatty Acids - Fat intake, namely from EFA's, are vital to your progress. Essential Fatty Acids help with countless areas in our bodybuilding lifestyle. For more information on this, refer to, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis.
Calculating Your Calories
I discuss caloric calculation in 13 weeks to burning fat the diet. You can go to the exact section by clicking here. Once there, find the amount of calories it would take to maintain your current bodyweight. Here is what you must understand: even though food is extremely anabolic, a general rule of thumb, is that the higher you raise your caloric intake, the more fat you will store. You can minimize this through clean eating, and slowly raising your calories. For example, say your maintenance is 3, 000 calories per day, you might tack on an additional 250 calories the first week to increase muscular gains. On that low an increase, fat gain will be negligible to non-existent! If weight gain fails, then increase your intake slowly again.
Sample Meal Plan
The following diet is over 4,500 calories, you will of course adjust it to your daily needs as calculated above.
Meal One
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
5 egg whites
60
0
18
0
2 whole eggs
144
0
12
10
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 medium sized apple
90
23
1
0
Total
594
77
41
16
Meal Two
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
7 oz chicken breast 217 0 45 4
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
Total
517 54 55 10
Meal Three
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
6 oz Tuna
186 0 39 3
4 slices wheat. bread 440 104 8 2
Total
626 104 47 5
Meal Four (PW shake)
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
46 grams of Whey
220 6 46 3
Total
580 96 46
3
Meal Five
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup of Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
2 turkey Burgers 260 2 48 6
Total
710 91 61 13
Meal Six
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
Total
408 35 48 10
Meal Seven
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
548 6 47 35
Meal Eight
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup Cottage Cheese 220 5 45 2
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
510 11 47 28
Daily Totals
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
Nutrient Grams
4,500
474
392
120
This articles was meant to build a solid foundation. A foundation based on the following fact: " If you want to be one of the Big Boys you've got to eat like the big boys!"
Now its "Time to get big"
RADAR
Read this... (a post by RADAR)
at 19 i weighed 115 pounds, i reached my heaviest 280 after i turned 50.
Heres some important info.What is the most anabolic substance known to man? If you said food then you are 100 percent correct. It is absolutely impossible to put muscle on without enough nutrients to support the process. You can train day after day, month after month, and still see absolutely nothing new in the mirror if you are not eating enough.
Taking this into consideration, it would stand to reason that the more food you consume, the higher an anabolic response your body will have after a brutal workout. So if you were looking for a muscle building magic bullet then you have no further to look than your refrigerator! Go stand in your kitchen for a minute. Look around, you are completely surrounded by the most anabolic substance in the world! You can almost feel its power as if the cabinets were about to explode. For if you consume the correct amount of macronutrients you will undoubtedly experience a surge of muscle growth that you never imagined possible!
Everything I have ever done has been to the extreme. Whether at work or play I have always attempted to break barriers. I believe that this is the mentality a bodybuilder must have if he/she is to succeed! Therefore, you can imagine what transpired when I first discovered the anabolic power of food. I stuffed myself with it!
Make no mistake about it, you will never become huge on 2,500 calories a day! No matter what any sell out magazine tells you. I know that allot of you are thinking, " what about my abs? I don't want to lose sight of them." Have you ever seen pro bodybuilders in the off season? They are tanks! Lee Priest competes at 225 and has gotten up to 300 pounds in the off season. While I am not going to ask you to go to these extremes, you must sacrifice by gaining a small amount of fat if you ever hope to add serious muscle mass. Guess what? When you diet the fat off after a bulk, your abs will still be there, and with them, a whole new layer of lean muscle mass that you can show off at the beach! Remember bodybuilding is a process of building the body up and then chiseling it down again. You must understand that you cannot build anything without the proper materials and that is what "Diet" is all About. Here's what I am going to do, I will post a mass building diet that is meant to build muscle, while keeping fat gain to a minimum. I will accomplish this by sticking with extremely clean eating!
Components :
Protein - I can talk all day long about the importance of protein! But I will sum it up by saying that this macronutrient contains the building blocks of muscle tissue! Without the proper amount of protein you can kiss muscle gains goodbye! I would recommend a minimum of 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight a day from sources such as chicken, fish, turkey, steak, skim milk, egg whites and protein powders. Therefore, if you weigh 200 pounds, you should consume 200 to 300 grams per day. Lastly, I would stay away from foods such as bacon and ribs. All the meat you eat should be lean.
Carbohydrates - Obviously you cannot induce muscle growth without intense workouts. Well, there is no way that you can train at an optimal level without the bodies chief source of fuel. The Carbohydrate. This macronutrient not only fuels us, but it releases one of the body's most anabolic hormones in response to its ingestion. This hormone is called insulin, and it increases the uptake of protein into our muscles tremendously. Carbs also spare protein so that it can be used to build muscle as opposed to being burned as energy (see note). You should consume 2.5 to 3.5 g of carbohydrates a day. That said, a 200 pound man would consume 500 to 700 grams of carbs a day from complex carbohydrates such oatmeal, and wheat bread.
Note: The body has the capability to convert other macros into glucose. Such a process is known as gluconeogenesis. Mr. Knowlden discusses this in The Window Of Opportunity. Here is an excerpt:
Cortisol literally converts muscle tissue to proteins for conversion into glucose. This is your body’s way of producing energy when all readily available energy (glucose) and stored forms (glycogen) of energy have been expended. To compensate for this depletion of energy, your body will go into a process called gluconeogenesis to produce glucose from amino acids in the liver. The end result of this process? Hard earned muscle used as energy, and all potential gains becoming null and void.
Essential Fatty Acids - Fat intake, namely from EFA's, are vital to your progress. Essential Fatty Acids help with countless areas in our bodybuilding lifestyle. For more information on this, refer to, Essential Fatty Acids - An In Depth Analysis.
Calculating Your Calories
I discuss caloric calculation in 13 weeks to burning fat the diet. You can go to the exact section by clicking here. Once there, find the amount of calories it would take to maintain your current bodyweight. Here is what you must understand: even though food is extremely anabolic, a general rule of thumb, is that the higher you raise your caloric intake, the more fat you will store. You can minimize this through clean eating, and slowly raising your calories. For example, say your maintenance is 3, 000 calories per day, you might tack on an additional 250 calories the first week to increase muscular gains. On that low an increase, fat gain will be negligible to non-existent! If weight gain fails, then increase your intake slowly again.
Sample Meal Plan
The following diet is over 4,500 calories, you will of course adjust it to your daily needs as calculated above.
Meal One
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
5 egg whites
60
0
18
0
2 whole eggs
144
0
12
10
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 medium sized apple
90
23
1
0
Total
594
77
41
16
Meal Two
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
7 oz chicken breast 217 0 45 4
1 cup Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
Total
517 54 55 10
Meal Three
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
6 oz Tuna
186 0 39 3
4 slices wheat. bread 440 104 8 2
Total
626 104 47 5
Meal Four (PW shake)
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
45 Grms Dextrose 180 45 0 0
46 grams of Whey
220 6 46 3
Total
580 96 46
3
Meal Five
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup of Oatmeal 300
54
10
6
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
2 turkey Burgers 260 2 48 6
Total
710 91 61 13
Meal Six
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
1 Large Sweat Potato 150 35 3 1
Total
408 35 48 10
Meal Seven
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
8 oz fish 258 0 45 9
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
548 6 47 35
Meal Eight
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
1 Cup Cottage Cheese 220 5 45 2
2 or 3:1 ratio N3-N6 EFA'S--2 table spoons 250 0 0 25
Assorted Greens 40 6 2 1
Total
510 11 47 28
Daily Totals
Calories
Carbs
Protein
Fat
Nutrient Grams
4,500
474
392
120
This articles was meant to build a solid foundation. A foundation based on the following fact: " If you want to be one of the Big Boys you've got to eat like the big boys!"
Now its "Time to get big"
RADAR
Jesus christ.. Did you say 11 meals ... in one day?...I'm a 9 - 5 guy, I doubt if I can get that many meals during the day...Your a god damn monster Sweed and I mean that in a good way... By the way I'm 26 years old.. and about 2 years ago I was 230lbs with 28% body fat to be exact that was my worst... before that I was just a skinny kid averaging 180lbs..am 6'2 so that's skinny... so when I jumped to 230 I was seriously out of shape man...So I worked out for a year stright and cut my body fat to 17%... and I'm now 213lbs...I am no where near the number you guys are putting up and Swordfish you're right man I'm kind of messed up on what route to take... But I'm also a determined muthafuka and I want to get on the juice and pump like 6 days a week.... And I'm goign to pick up my meals and jump to maybe 6-7 meals... There is no way I can do 11 meals ...I need food stamps for that shittt.... lol
afgab14 said:
lol.. just remember, just cuz yur on juice doesn't mean u can lift 7 days a week... u still need time to rest... rest = growing. i am on 5 days a week. And those 11 meals.. well about half are protein shakes in between real solid food just to keeep the protein high along with some good fats (fish oil). Ya i work 2 jobs right now to help out my addiction.. its my firt cycle so i want get as much mass as possible. Your doing good bro, just keep at it for a little and reserch up on AS.. do u kno what pct is?
krishna
New member
If you want to gain weight then eat 4-5000 a day while on. I wouldn't worry about fat while you're bulking; the extra muscle you'll gain from having some fat on will be worth it. Do some light cardio during your cycle, and towards the end, start increasing your cardio. Keep hittin the weights hard after your cycle, and cut back your calories some without cutting your protein, and you will cut up nicely after you shed your water from the sustanon. You'll keep most of you muscle that way too. Make sure you do proper PCT as well
afgab14 said:
lol.. please please please read this..
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376177
read it again now... memorize it... u need pct (post cycle therepy) after cycle to bring natural test back to help keep most of your gains.
From that threadafgab14 said:
PCT Protocol(s):
1.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.
2.) 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3 weeks.
3.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.
4.) 1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.
----------------------------
#2 looks the best...
how many mgs sust u doing?
swordfish151
New member
afgab14 said:
there is no need for that bro..either start at 250 and stay there or start at 500mgs and stay there....i would say do 250mgs for your cycle to see how you do...some will say this is low....but your starting off
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