protein powder/ meal replacment vs real food.

[needtogetaas]

Supplementation is just that... to supplement the diet. lets get that right out in the open. this means if you can't get the cals and protein you need for what ever reason,cost,time,cant eat any more, loss of ideas then Supplementation (might) be a good idea.

As supplement companies improve the quality of their protein powders and more people are looking for convenience and time savers while trying to eat right. The thought of protein powders making up most of your diet might sound like the easy way out and even good for you,but is this the case.

Well lets face it protein drinks must work. They must have there place in the world or Competitive sports,bb, and even just for the reg guy trying to get in shape. They have been around for decades. The mass numbers of people that swear by them are staggering. lets take a look at it all.

Aside from intense training and sufficient rest, feeding the body is the most critical element for lean muscle growth.
Every successful bodybuilder, from amateur to Olympian, eats at least six times per day. (sure we can debate that to death but for the most part its fact) by eating at least six meals per day, you provide your body with a steady stream of nutrients, keeping yourself in an anabolic state. The body does not store protein the way it does fats or carbohydrates, it is essential that protein be provided to the muscles throughout the day to keep this
anabolic state. In short giving your body a steady flow of protein will keep your body from dipping into your muscles and eating away at them.

For most this means "MEAL REPLACEMENTS" Is the answer. Why? Is the question at hand though. Why since the late 80's has protein powders and meal replacement been so populer when its a fact that plain old psychology
show humans are designed to eat solid food. Solid food comes with nutrients that the body needs that protein powder lack.Real food is more thermogenic, meaning basically that it makes your body burn more cals to digest the food itself. Protein powders and meal replacement for most people cause cramping bloating, and gassy feelings. Real food gives the body a flow of protein over time as the body digest it. Since the body can only use so much protein at a time this is best.

Here are my thoughts. Protein powders and meal replacement have there place. pree work out and post work out. Also they just help most people get the protein they need. I am a top chef in my area and even I cant find the time day in and day out to fit everything in the body needs. This in no way means we should all just give up and fall back on protein powders and meal replacement.

make every effort to keep protein powders and meal replacment in there place
(pree and post work out) Learn how to bring more real food into your diet. How to make time,cook in bulk,great ideas and recipes to keep things exciting
and ever changing and how to cut down on cost. hell just eating real food rather then powders saves money most of the time.
Don't just down a shake because its easy. Real food can be just as easy, far more tasty,exciting and fun.

 

[hurricane]

good post i agree real food protein is best but powder is wayyy better then missin meals or assuming u gettin enough protein or cals from natural food and u not..lets not forget adding shakes/protein shakes/weight gainers etc... not only adds proteins but also calories ..which is essential to growth

 

[needtogetaas]

good post i agree real food protein is best but powder is wayyy better then missin meals or assuming u gettin enough protein or cals from natural food and u not..lets not forget adding shakes/protein shakes/weight gainers etc... not only adds proteins but also calories ..which is essential to growth

There are ways to get in the real food you need. People just need to know them. They need to get this info.

 

[EricG]

Good read, definatelly agree.

Needto are you still doing that recipe of the week thing?

-G

 

[jumpmaster82]

great post needto. yea real food is always better. but i find myself from time to time falling into that shit of drinking them throughout the day cuz i was to lazy to cook. but i try not to.

 

[kidd73]

Great post. So true. Its easy to get into a rut with the protein shakes/powders due to their convenience. Ive been guilty in the past. But although they work, I still believe the protein in eggs, chicken, fish, and steak are far more soluble proteins. They are in the form your body expects protein to be. I use them pre workout cuz i HATE being hungry before workout, and I use them post workout cuz it usually takes me over an hour to prepare my meals. But i make my meals large cuz thats my grub for the next day too.
Good stuff Needto.

 

[EricG]

There are ways to get in the real food you need. People just need to know them. They need to get this info.

Agreed. Something I\ve been doing latelly is making my 6 meals and packaging them in seperate containers before bed. Usually only takes me 45 mins. I make breakfest and then the rest is already made for me so this helps me keep on tract plus its easier making everything in one shot then putting things together 6-7 times a day.

-G

 

[needtogetaas]

Good read, definatelly agree.

Needto are you still doing that recipe of the week thing?

-G

I do my best to keep up with it. You should go check out the Muscle Food for Bodybuilding forum which I am the mod of now. Post a thread ask for recipes and ideas. I have been so busy with my body building recipe cook book though. It has all the ideas,recipes and facts about cooking for your needs. I want to finish
the book but I just keep finding things to add. Recipes are the easy part but there is so much more to it. Of course it will have well over 150 recipes or more cuz I know people love them.

 

[slamminshaun]

I only consume 1 shake a day, the other 4 meals come from real food...in a few weeks I plan to jump up to 6 meals a day, just wanted to get my body adjusted to 5 first. I just bulk cook everything the night before on the Foreman grill....throw it into some Tupperware, got a microwave at work, good to go!

 

[EricG]

Sounds good bro, as a fellow cook I will be looking forward to it.

-G

 

[needtogetaas]

Sounds good bro, as a fellow cook I will be looking forward to it.

-G

send me your best recipes. I have been collecting them for years.

 

[EricG]

send me your best recipes. I have been collecting them for years.

Hehe maybe ill pm you a few when I get home. Looking forward to your book, I need more healthy recipes. I come from french/italien familly and as you know everything is pretty heavy.


-G

I have a delicious recipe for Coquilles St. Jaqcue's my grand mother got back in the day in France,(Custamized it a bitt) I make it on special occasions(little expensive to make), see if I can dig it up.

 

[needtogetaas]

Hehe maybe ill pm you a few when I get home. Looking forward to your book, I need more healthy recipes. I come from french/italien familly and as you know everything is pretty heavy.


-G

I have a delicious recipe for Coquilles St. Jaqcue's my grand mother got back in the day in France,(Custamized it a bitt) I make it on special occasions(little expensive to make), see if I can dig it up.

Hell I don't care if your recipes are healthy. I have a career and a restaurant to run lol. I spent a few years in Italy myself. Worked for the south of the alps dining facility 22nd asg as part of 173rd southern European task force. I got to cook for a few restaurant in Italy as well. the blues bar,some strip clubs, and other places hired me to cater some parties for them. I also cooked for the annual stripper party cook out which was a pretty big thing if you were ever a around that area(vecinza) . 500 or more super model strippers and 3 times as many guys is a lot to cook for but it was fun.

 

[needtogetaas]

o hell ya

 

[EricG]

Shweet thats awesome man. The aftermath should of been pretty sweet hehe.

-G

 

[needtogetaas]

Shweet thats awesome man. The aftermath should of been pretty sweet hehe.

-G

 

[xrsist]

good thread needto.. the only time you should really need to consume protein powders is before and after training and right before bed

 

[needtogetaas]

good thread needto.. the only time you should really need to consume protein powders is before and after training and right before bed

I have shit loads of recipes for protein shakes. Whats in that thread is only half of what I have collected in the last year or to.. Wait till I bust out the full list its going to be bad ass.

 

[HorseBox]

I know I'm raising this post from the dead but this is an interesting topic. After the first few sentences I suspected the OP had an agenda for arguing against replacing solid food with liquid food but since your a chef now I'm sure of it haha. The human body is designed to digest solid food because over the ages there was no alternative. With liquid food the stomach does not need to break anything down therefore less energy is spent on an unnecessary process. We have reached a stage of technological advancement where we can provide the body with everything it needs in unconventional ways. Coma patients are IV'd essential nutrients.

One of the many advantages of liquid food is the stomach does not need to produce nearly as much acid. I personally have a hiatal hernia and have trouble with acid reflux. Peptic ulcers are also caused by excessive levels of acid entering the duodenum. Given the choice I would never eat solid food again. Why put all that time and effort into chewing food when you can just drink it? The stomach has to turn it into liquid before it can be absorbed anyway.

As for your arguments against liquid food I disagree. 1.) There are plenty of other ways to burn calories than relying on digestion. 2.) Since you absorb liquid food much faster than solid food just consume smaller quantities more frequently. Drop the dogma. Any protein present in any food can be extracted or synthesized. I haven't heard one real good argument for stating that solid food is better than liquid food.

 

[joe d]

I know I'm raising this post from the dead but this is an interesting topic. After the first few sentences I suspected the OP had an agenda for arguing against replacing solid food with liquid food but since your a chef now I'm sure of it haha. The human body is designed to digest solid food because over the ages there was no alternative. With liquid food the stomach does not need to break anything down therefore less energy is spent on an unnecessary process. We have reached a stage of technological advancement where we can provide the body with everything it needs in unconventional ways. Coma patients are IV'd essential nutrients.

One of the many advantages of liquid food is the stomach does not need to produce nearly as much acid. I personally have a hiatal hernia and have trouble with acid reflux. Peptic ulcers are also caused by excessive levels of acid entering the duodenum. Given the choice I would never eat solid food again. Why put all that time and effort into chewing food when you can just drink it? The stomach has to turn it into liquid before it can be absorbed anyway.

As for your arguments against liquid food I disagree. 1.) There are plenty of other ways to burn calories than relying on digestion. 2.) Since you absorb liquid food much faster than solid food just consume smaller quantities more frequently.

comparing shakes to real foods is the same as comparing highly processed crap that the markets sell to real foods. a shake is the same as that fake chicken that has 30 ingredients only 1 of them beigh actual chicken or the same crap made from beef. its all shit compared to real food meaning steak just cooked to the point that its safe plain barely cooked sweat tater raw broccoli milk ect. when talking about a healthy diet or a muscle building diet the shakes and other highly processed foods dont really fit in to much. maybe 1 or 2 times a day at most.

 

[HorseBox]

comparing shakes to real foods is the same as comparing highly processed crap that the markets sell to real foods. a shake is the same as that fake chicken that has 30 ingredients only 1 of them beigh actual chicken or the same crap made from beef. its all shit compared to real food meaning steak just cooked to the point that its safe plain barely cooked sweat tater raw broccoli milk ect. when talking about a healthy diet or a muscle building diet the shakes and other highly processed foods dont really fit in to much. maybe 1 or 2 times a day at most.

Care to elaborate on your assertions? The body needs proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, fibers, vitamins and minerals. If the milkshake provides all that then it has the exact same nutritional value as solid food. If your talking about taste thats a different matter altogether. Doesn't make a difference to me if something is real chicken or not if it has the same nutritional value as real chicken. BTW I'm talking about eating to survive not bodybuilding.

 

[bigtravis]

Meal replacements with an extra whey kick are great especially during the summer months when you have loss of appetite due to the heat. It's extreemly difficult to down the required nutrients in actual meal/food form during that time for me. I'll eat only one actual meal per day which is a green leafy salad with chicken or fish and the rest of the day is meal replacements and extra whey with casein before bedtime.

 

[future]

At that point to get your protein you SUPPLEMENT not just replace. You are getting in quality whole foods still.

 

[RickO'Shea]

It basically comes down to, I like to eat stuff more than I like to drink stuff

 

[HorseBox]

Meal replacements with an extra whey kick are great especially during the summer months when you have loss of appetite due to the heat. It's extreemly difficult to down the required nutrients in actual meal/food form during that time for me. I'll eat only one actual meal per day which is a green leafy salad with chicken or fish and the rest of the day is meal replacements and extra whey with casein before bedtime.

The reason Im interested in meal replacements is because Im on dexedrine. Eating a sandwich is a challenge. I have no trouble eating bowls of serial or drinking though so liquid food may save me from getting malnourished.

 

[joe d]

Care to elaborate on your assertions? The body needs proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, fibers, vitamins and minerals. If the milkshake provides all that then it has the exact same nutritional value as solid food. If your talking about taste thats a different matter altogether. Doesn't make a difference to me if something is real chicken or not if it has the same nutritional value as real chicken. BTW I'm talking about eating to survive not bodybuilding.

sure. as i said for health or muscle building reasons sups only wont cut it. just like any other highly processed food wont cut it. it is of much lesser quality than real food. its not hard to understand. you can survive on mcdonalds alone to but you arent going to be healthy. i would bet that a 100% liquid diet would cause health problems as well with the digestive system. i would suggest talking to a doctor about that if you havent already.

 

[joe d]

Care to elaborate on your assertions? The body needs proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, fibers, vitamins and minerals. If the milkshake provides all that then it has the exact same nutritional value as solid food. If your talking about taste thats a different matter altogether. Doesn't make a difference to me if something is real chicken or not if it has the same nutritional value as real chicken. BTW I'm talking about eating to survive not bodybuilding.

it doesnt even come close to having the exact same nutritional value. it is much less. there is also a lot of bull shit added that is not good for you.

it should make a difference to you if chicken is real chicken because if its not than most of what you are eating is bad for your health. hence fast food resteraunts, tv dinners, lunch meats ect. eat that shit for a few months and go get a health checkup. then you will understand.

 

[Nelson Montana]

It can be summed up pretty simply.

Eat a balanced nutritional diet of wholesome food concentrating on protein. Then add a shake or two for a quick, tasty, low calorie way to get the extra protein needed for extra muscle growth.

The main problem with shakes is that they don;t taste very good without some sugar -- which is fine most of the time. But if you want JUST protein, you need to take aminos or BCAA"s. OR..use GEAR which is SUPERIOR protein -- seriously, more concentrated than any food source.

Of course you need to eat. But bodybuilders have specific needs. A protein supplement just makes it easier to get what you need without revolving your life around what you eat.

 

[Dial_tone]

I have a protein shake to start/end the day and eat real food in between.

 

[HorseBox]

sure. as i said for health or muscle building reasons sups only wont cut it. just like any other highly processed food wont cut it. it is of much lesser quality than real food. its not hard to understand. you can survive on mcdonalds alone to but you arent going to be healthy. i would bet that a 100% liquid diet would cause health problems as well with the digestive system. i would suggest talking to a doctor about that if you havent already.

When I said elaborate I meant provide physiological facts or at least theory to back up what you are saying. Your doing little more than guessing here.

 

[HorseBox]

it doesnt even come close to having the exact same nutritional value. it is much less. there is also a lot of bull shit added that is not good for you.

it should make a difference to you if chicken is real chicken because if its not than most of what you are eating is bad for your health. hence fast food resteraunts, tv dinners, lunch meats ect. eat that shit for a few months and go get a health checkup. then you will understand.

Joe again you are just making assertions without providing any facts or theory behind them. Its like me saying "liquid food is better than solid food and thats just the way it is". The only argument you provided there was additives. The substances that are added to food replacement powders aren't necessarily unhealthy. Everything thats added to the product will (should anyway) be printed on the container so you can look it up yourself. Believing that something is bad just because its an additive is insane. I'm under the impression your not into science joe. There are scientific reasons behind why McDonalds food is unhealthy. McDonalds food != solid food replacements. When you buy a happy meal they don't print the ingredients on the back either.

 

[HorseBox]

It can be summed up pretty simply.

Eat a balanced nutritional diet of wholesome food concentrating on protein. Then add a shake or two for a quick, tasty, low calorie way to get the extra protein needed for extra muscle growth.

The main problem with shakes is that they don;t taste very good without some sugar -- which is fine most of the time. But if you want JUST protein, you need to take aminos or BCAA"s. OR..use GEAR which is SUPERIOR protein -- seriously, more concentrated than any food source.

Of course you need to eat. But bodybuilders have specific needs. A protein supplement just makes it easier to get what you need without revolving your life around what you eat.

I know this is a bodybuilding forum but if your going to debate things like these at least try to be scientific about it. Again the body needs proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, fibers, vitamins and minerals. Please correct me if I'm wrong or have left something out there. As far as I'm aware thats the mainstream theory on the matter. That hypothesis would imply that if a milkshake provides the right ratios of all those substances then they come close to providing the exact same nutritional value as any solid dinner could. There are of course other variables such as how different solid foods are broken down by the stomach but ultimately all food is turned into liquid before it can be absorbed. A consequence of not ingesting solid food would most likely be less HCl production in the stomach. I'm no doctor but I would assume thats a good thing. Excessive HCl causes a wide range of gastrointestinal problems and I speculate that the only function gastric HCl serves is breaking down food.

 

[joe d]

if you want a scientific explination ask a scientist. if you want a medical explination ask a doctor. if yoy want to know if its unhealthy to live off of protein shakes alone ask anyone its just simple common sence.

 

[HorseBox]

Just because it was once common belief that the world was flat didn't change the fact its spherical. If theres no evidence behind this "common sense" then its merely commonly accepted and unquestioned belief.

 

[joe d]

Just because it was once common belief that the world was flat didn't change the fact its spherical. If theres no evidence behind this "common sense" then its merely commonly accepted and unquestioned belief.

so be the test dummy. do it for a few months then go to the doctor for a checkup. see what happens. good luck to you in your quest whatever you decide to do.

 

[burnthiscorpse]

so be the test dummy. do it for a few months then go to the doctor for a checkup. see what happens. good luck to you in your quest whatever you decide to do.

We are seriously arguing if real food is better than "liquid" supplementation. Or other garbage like fast food??
I'm with joeD, I dare you to try it for a few months then hit the doctor. Be sure to post up your bloodwork.
HorseBox, did you bother to look at the guy you are arguing with about food? Take a peek at his avatar and tell me he built that shit with liquid food, or anything other than real solid clean foods.

 

[needtogetaas]

Just because it was once common belief that the world was flat didn't change the fact its spherical. If theres no evidence behind this "common sense" then its merely commonly accepted and unquestioned belief.

HARMFUL CONSEQUENCES
Many of the sources from which this information was found on the world wide web are advertisements for companies. Since they are trying to sell the product, they make their product seem unbelievably perfect. Most of the articles found were not scientifically researched, but were instead a few accounts expressing the product’s amazing results.
Even though liquid diets may have instructions and limitations on usage, critics claim that these diets have a large potential for misuse. Health risks may rise from lack of medical supervision or from people with only mild obesity on the diet. Many weight loss experts claim that liquid diets causing rapid weight loss tend to over use lean muscle and slow the metabolism, thus, making it even more difficult for weight loss to be maintained. Eventually, liquid diets can lead to the development of muscle cramps, anemia, dizziness, menstrual abnormality, and constipation. The people who are only mildly obese lose too much lean body mass which increases their chance of cardiac dysfunctions (http:www/thriveonline.com/@@D14HrAQAMR…ve/health/Library/CAD/abstract12030.html). The intensity of protein in the liquid diets can cause an electrolyte imbalance which results in irregular heart beats (http://www.columbia.net/1source/winter95/diet.html). Studies show that 25% of the people on liquid diets develop gallstones due to their inability to contract bile. In addition, liquid diets have even been known to cause deaths. During the 1970’s, 58 deaths were linked to the inadequate nutrition and too little calories in liquid diets (404 Page not found).

Cut and past. Forget from where.

 

[Nelson Montana]

I know this is a bodybuilding forum but if your going to debate things like these at least try to be scientific about it. Again the body needs proteins, carbohydrates, lipids, fibers, vitamins and minerals. Please correct me if I'm wrong or have left something out there. As far as I'm aware thats the mainstream theory on the matter. That hypothesis would imply that if a milkshake provides the right ratios of all those substances then they come close to providing the exact same nutritional value as any solid dinner could. There are of course other variables such as how different solid foods are broken down by the stomach but ultimately all food is turned into liquid before it can be absorbed. A consequence of not ingesting solid food would most likely be less HCl production in the stomach. I'm no doctor but I would assume thats a good thing. Excessive HCl causes a wide range of gastrointestinal problems and I speculate that the only function gastric HCl serves is breaking down food.

In theory I agree. As long as you get the necessary macro and micro nutrients it doesn't a matter if they're liquid or solid. Once when I was extremely busy I lived on protein shakes for a while. I got SUPER lean. Nice. But I wouldn't want to live like that.

 

[Mac173]

I've always had great results on a diet that was a majority liquid. If your busy or on the go it's better than nothing. 16oz skim milk/ 1 cup oats/ 1 scoop protien. Plus for those guys who don't have a large appetite it's an easy way to get the cals in.

 

[needtogetaas]

Well it just flat out sucks anyway. Food is a pleasure. Why give it up when there is no need to?