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will cofee cancel out creatine if both are consumed prior to a workout?
- Thread starter Slyder190
- Start date
D
DaddyX
Guest
take the coffee before and the creatine post
Boulder257
New member
Creatine Monohydrate causes water storage, which is one of the major benefits to creatine. Anything with caffeine (which is a diuretic) is going to send the body the message to empty extra water stores. This is especially true with coffee, which has high amounts of caffeine. Daddy has a good idea, but I would be sure to wait about 30 minutes before consuming the creatine. This way, you have the benefit of the dialated blood vessels from the caffeine, and the extra water storage from the creatine.
DeepZenPill
New member
A little caffeine won't hurt too much, just don't go nuts. I usually need 2 cups in the morning and it hasn't seemed to interfere too badly with the creatine as long as I'm staying hydrated.
Silent Method
New member
Aside from it's diuretic effects, caffeinecan directly inhibit the absorbtion of consumed creatine. caffeineexhibits its effects for over 5 hours.
IMO, if you want to use creatine, stay away from caffeine for the entire creatine cycle.
IMO, if you want to use creatine, stay away from caffeine for the entire creatine cycle.
L
lartinos
Guest
Creatine is like taking sand, puting it in water and drinking it. I saw zero effects except nausea from this crap. I rarely get nausous so I found that to be weird. Pissing 5 times as much as normal probably does wonders for someone's kidneys over long periods of time.
D
DaddyX
Guest
lartinos said:
Im not one for supps but i actually have gained in the past pretty good weight. anything under 15-20grams is worthless tho
Silent Method
New member
Lot's of conflicting views.
I've seen data I trust showing anything over about 5-6 grams (post-loading) per day in a non-setroid using athlete is simply pissed down the drain.
lartinos, not everyone responds well to creatine supplementation for various reasons. Some people are in a natural state where in their muscle are simply already "full" of all the creatine they can use. Some do not absorb it well. Others experience cramps and other side effect. (I experience nausea proximal to the time of ingestion the first week or so of a creatine cycle.) In addition, some products are simply crap. Creatine is not very stable on the shelf.
What product were you using? How much were you taking? How were you using it?
I believe the actual effects users experience from creatine are confounded by expectation and/or placebo effect. A realistic expectation would be an extra rep or two on your 8-10 rep max - not god-like strength nor multiple pounds of true lean mass gain in mere weeks.
I've seen data I trust showing anything over about 5-6 grams (post-loading) per day in a non-setroid using athlete is simply pissed down the drain.
lartinos, not everyone responds well to creatine supplementation for various reasons. Some people are in a natural state where in their muscle are simply already "full" of all the creatine they can use. Some do not absorb it well. Others experience cramps and other side effect. (I experience nausea proximal to the time of ingestion the first week or so of a creatine cycle.) In addition, some products are simply crap. Creatine is not very stable on the shelf.
What product were you using? How much were you taking? How were you using it?
I believe the actual effects users experience from creatine are confounded by expectation and/or placebo effect. A realistic expectation would be an extra rep or two on your 8-10 rep max - not god-like strength nor multiple pounds of true lean mass gain in mere weeks.
TraxZBT
New member
The only thing it does for me is give me steroid like pumps in the gym. Don't notice much strength wise and my weight does not increase with it. Although, it does make me look fuller througout the day.
p.s. I've cycled creatine with caffeine and without. It worked the same exact way every time.
p.s. I've cycled creatine with caffeine and without. It worked the same exact way every time.
Sigmund Roid
New member
Karma please!
: J Appl Physiol. 2002 Feb;92(2):513-8. Related Articles, Links
Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans.
Hespel P, Op't Eijnde B, Van Leemputte M.
Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Tervuursevest 101, B-3001 Leuven, Belgium.
The effect of creatine and caffeine supplementation on muscle torque generation and relaxation was investigated in healthy male volunteers. Maximal torque (T(max)), contraction time (CT) from 0.25 to 0.75 of T(max), and relaxation time (RT) from 0.75 to 0.25 of T(max) were measured during an exercise test consisting of 30 intermittent contractions of musculus quadriceps (2 s stimulation, 2 s rest) that were induced by electrical stimulation. According to a double-blind randomized crossover design, subjects (n = 10) performed the exercise test before (pretest) and after (posttest) creatine supplementation (Cr, 4 x 5 g/day, 4 days), short-term caffeine intake (Caf, 5 mg x kg(-1) x day(-1), 3 days), creatine supplementation + short-term caffeine intake (Cr+Caf), acute caffeine intake (ACaf, 5 mg/kg) or placebo. Compared with placebo, Cr shortened RT by approximately 5% (P < 0.05). Conversely, Caf increased RT (+ approximately 10%, P < 0.05), in particular as RT increased because of fatigue. RT was not significantly changed by either Cr+Caf or ACaf. T(max) and CT were similar during all experimental conditions. Initial T(max) was approximately 20% of voluntary maximal isometric contraction force, which was not different between treatments. It is concluded that Caf intake (3 days) prolongs muscle RT and by this action overrides the shortening of RT due to creatine supplementation.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 11796658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
: J Appl Physiol. 2002 Feb;92(2):513-8. Related Articles, Links
Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans.
Hespel P, Op't Eijnde B, Van Leemputte M.
Exercise Physiology and Biomechanics Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Tervuursevest 101, B-3001 Leuven, Belgium.
The effect of creatine and caffeine supplementation on muscle torque generation and relaxation was investigated in healthy male volunteers. Maximal torque (T(max)), contraction time (CT) from 0.25 to 0.75 of T(max), and relaxation time (RT) from 0.75 to 0.25 of T(max) were measured during an exercise test consisting of 30 intermittent contractions of musculus quadriceps (2 s stimulation, 2 s rest) that were induced by electrical stimulation. According to a double-blind randomized crossover design, subjects (n = 10) performed the exercise test before (pretest) and after (posttest) creatine supplementation (Cr, 4 x 5 g/day, 4 days), short-term caffeine intake (Caf, 5 mg x kg(-1) x day(-1), 3 days), creatine supplementation + short-term caffeine intake (Cr+Caf), acute caffeine intake (ACaf, 5 mg/kg) or placebo. Compared with placebo, Cr shortened RT by approximately 5% (P < 0.05). Conversely, Caf increased RT (+ approximately 10%, P < 0.05), in particular as RT increased because of fatigue. RT was not significantly changed by either Cr+Caf or ACaf. T(max) and CT were similar during all experimental conditions. Initial T(max) was approximately 20% of voluntary maximal isometric contraction force, which was not different between treatments. It is concluded that Caf intake (3 days) prolongs muscle RT and by this action overrides the shortening of RT due to creatine supplementation.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 11796658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Sigmund Roid
New member
J Appl Physiol. 1996 Feb;80(2):452-7. Related Articles, Links
Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.
Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P.
Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.
This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 8929583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.
Vandenberghe K, Gillis N, Van Leemputte M, Van Hecke P, Vanstapel F, Hespel P.
Faculty of Physical Education and Physiotherapy, Department of Kinesiology, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, Belgium.
This study aimed to compare the effects of oral creatine (Cr) supplementation with creatine supplementation in combination with caffeine (Cr+C) on muscle phosphocreatine (PCr) level and performance in healthy male volunteers (n = 9). Before and after 6 days of placebo, Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1), or Cr (0.5 g x kg-1 x day-1) + C (5 mg x kg-1 x day-1) supplementation, 31P-nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy of the gastrocnemius muscle and a maximal intermittent exercise fatigue test of the knee extensors on an isokinetic dynamometer were performed. The exercise consisted of three consecutive maximal isometric contractions and three interval series of 90, 80, and 50 maximal voluntary contractions performed with a rest interval of 2 min between the series. Muscle ATP concentration remained constant over the three experimental conditions. Cr and Cr+C increased (P < 0.05) muscle PCr concentration by 4-6%. Dynamic torque production, however, was increased by 10-23% (P < 0.05) by Cr but was not changed by Cr+C. Torque improvement during Cr was most prominent immediately after the 2-min rest between the exercise bouts. The data show that Cr supplementation elevates muscle PCr concentration and markedly improves performance during intense intermittent exercise. This ergogenic effect, however, is completely eliminated by caffeine intake.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 8929583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Silent Method
New member
Good stuff Sig.
allnaturalier
New member
I TAKE PROLAB MONOHIDRATE CREATINE CREPURE, ABSOLUTELY GREAT SHIT, 5 GRAMS 1 HOUR PRIOR WORKOUT, 5 GRAMS POST WORK OUT... GIVES ME STRENGHT, ENDURANCE AND THEREFORE EXTRA REPS, MORE WEIGHT INVOLVED...
TRHE ONLY SIDE IVE NOTICED IS THE NAUSEA... NOT TOO MUCH BUT NOTICEABLE , I GUESS ITS JUST THE ADAPTATION PHASE... AND NO LOADING PERIOD ... THAT IS BULLL SHIT , JUST TAKE 5 PRIOR, 5 POST.
TAKE IT WITH AN ELECTROLITE LIQUID OR JUICE, OR GATORADE.
TRHE ONLY SIDE IVE NOTICED IS THE NAUSEA... NOT TOO MUCH BUT NOTICEABLE , I GUESS ITS JUST THE ADAPTATION PHASE... AND NO LOADING PERIOD ... THAT IS BULLL SHIT , JUST TAKE 5 PRIOR, 5 POST.
TAKE IT WITH AN ELECTROLITE LIQUID OR JUICE, OR GATORADE.
Silent Method
New member
IMO, at 10 grams per day you're not comming off the loading phase. Unless your a really big boy (muscle mass wise) I'd wager that you could maintain the same ergogenic effect with about half the dose.allnaturalier said:
Of course everyone is different. 10 grams per day is certainly not a dangerous or counter productive dosage, and it may make up for product degredation. If it works for you and has no adverse effects, no need to worry.
Those are some interesting studies about the creatine/caffeine combo. I've read that some of the original studies testing creatine used tea, and it had caffeine but still people had good results.
Maybe it depends on what type of creatine you take. And of course everyone is different so some respond well to it and some don't. I've had good results using it and still have my morning coffee, I just can't take them too close together or it causes some stomach upset.
Maybe it depends on what type of creatine you take. And of course everyone is different so some respond well to it and some don't. I've had good results using it and still have my morning coffee, I just can't take them too close together or it causes some stomach upset.
