Why/How does Osta cause gyno ?

[Oxbow]

Anybody knows ?

Actually I think an AI is weird to deal with Osta gyno. It has nothing to do with oestrogen because Ostarine doesn't aromatize. BUT maybe if your Oestrogen is lower, you would be less prone to gyno.

Using Nolvadex would make more sense to me.

Are you sure guys that it is really possible to avoid gyno from Osta ? I got a gyno from HGH 4 years ago. HGH's gyno has nothing to do with oestrogen and there is NOTHING you can do against it, it is because HGH binds with the prolactine receptors. The only solution is to stop HGH, even letro and cabergoline cannot do anything.

I hope it is not the same shit with Osta..

 

[pdelta]

According to PA, at higher doses (above 12mg) Ostra looses it's selectivity and acts like any other steroid.

 

[Shrine1]

Always run AG Guys Aromasin with ostarine.
12.5mg ED

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[WolfpackAlpha]

As long as you run a proper dosage protocol, you wont have any gynecomastia side-effects from osta. I suggest you work with a moderate osta dosage (s1) and a low aromasin dosage (ag) to feel out where you are in terms of gyno prone.

 

[northernknight]

I've been trying to figure this out too. I seem to respond very well to Osta and LGD, both have very strong effects in my case, postive and negative. I've never had problems with gyno symptoms with any AAS, but Osta and LGD always cause some minor symptoms like sensitive nipples. This is not from high E2, I've run bloods couple of time to check where my levels are. I have also done one LGD run using Nolva instead of an AI (I came to same conclusion that it would make more sense because of the lack of aromazation) with pretty much same results, maybe slightly less sensitive nipples. So even if you are not prone to gyno from AAS, you can be prone to gyno from SARMs, and propably other way around too. Like you mentioned then there is also HGH gyno, which I don't know much about, the bottom line is even if you are not prone to gyno from something that doesn't mean you can't get it from some other substance, so you should always use caution when trying something new and take all the precautions that you can.

In my case since the symptoms have always been minor with SARMs, and never caused anything problematic, I now use OTC AI like Formestane or Liquidex AI while running Osta or LGD. ATM I'm actually running them both to get my E2 down, (it rised a bit above the normal range from my TRT) while on LGD, S-4, and GW-50. Works like a charm for me.

 

[Viv1008]

Guys - I've started my second osta cycle and can feel some hard painful lumps below my nipples - obviously gyno is coming on. Should I stop my cycle and get hold of something like raloxifene to reduce it, it should I get some aromasin and run it alongside the osta? Will that reduce the lumps?

 

[crockpot]

Probably has some affinity for the estrogen receptor?

Id just use a serm.

 

[stevesmi]

I would definitely keep aromasin on hand!!

it is unusual to have issues with ostarine but those that are very gyno sensitive need to always keep an AI on hand.. ag guys has you covered with AI's!

 

[Shrine1]

Guys - I've started my second osta cycle and can feel some hard painful lumps below my nipples - obviously gyno is coming on. Should I stop my cycle and get hold of something like raloxifene to reduce it, it should I get some aromasin and run it alongside the osta? Will that reduce the lumps?

Always keep aromasin on hand. I personally always run it on ALL of my cycles. www.ag-Guys.com

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[STTM]

I think Nolva would be a much better option for gyno with this. 10-20mg a day.

 

[Nelson Montana]

HCG doesn't aromatize but it raises T, which in turn aromatizes. Osta raises T also, so...

 

[northernknight]

HCG doesn't aromatize but it raises T, which in turn aromatizes. Osta raises T also, so...

No, Ostarine or other SARMs do not raise Testosterone. Although Osta and LGD can cause some minor Estrogenic activity in some people, it has nothing to do with them raising Test levels, simply because they have absolutely no effect on rising Test level.

It distantly reminds me of the way Adrol causes Estrogenic sides like bloat and gyno even though its not capable of aromatizing to Estrogens. That has been explained with many different theories like "receptor crossover", but none of them fit to SARMS.

Anyway, estrogenic activity caused by Ostarine and LGD is so weak that you just need an good AI to keep aromazation from your natural Tests or other compounds that you may be taking under control and you should be fine. That's why AIs help when on Osta or LGD, not be cause SARMS them selves would aromatize.

How do I know this? I've been switching between Osta and LGD about a year straight now, while also on at least TRT dose of Test, with and with out AI, with SERM etc., and had bloodwork done about every two months. IOW I've experimented with SARMS in controlled environment using different variables, and read about the results mentioned above from my bloodwork.

 

[Nelson Montana]

No, Ostarine or other SARMs do not raise Testosterone. Although Osta and LGD can cause some minor Estrogenic activity in some people, it has nothing to do with them raising Test levels, simply because they have absolutely no effect on rising Test level.

It distantly reminds me of the way Adrol causes Estrogenic sides like bloat and gyno even though its not capable of aromatizing to Estrogens. That has been explained with many different theories like "receptor crossover", but none of them fit to SARMS.

Anyway, estrogenic activity caused by Ostarine and LGD is so weak that you just need an good AI to keep aromazation from your natural Tests or other compounds that you may be taking under control and you should be fine. That's why AIs help when on Osta or LGD, not be cause SARMS them selves would aromatize.

How do I know this? I've been switching between Osta and LGD about a year straight now, while also on at least TRT dose of Test, with and with out AI, with SERM etc., and had bloodwork done about every two months. IOW I've experimented with SARMS in controlled environment using different variables, and read about the results mentioned above from my bloodwork.

Actually anadrol causes gyno from progesterone. It could be that Osta does the same. And Osta may not raise T levels but it still causes androgenic activity, so, once again... who knows? There's still that is a lot unknown about it.

 

[northernknight]

Actually anadrol causes gyno from progesterone. It could be that Osta does the same. And Osta may not raise T levels but it still causes androgenic activity, so, once again... who knows? There's still that is a lot unknown about it.

I agree with you about 90%, since we are still learning new things about AAS discovered over 50 years ago, there certainly is lot more to learn about Ostarine and SARMs in general.

However, Anadrol is not a Progestin, and I've never seen any claims that Ostarine would interfere with Progesterone receptor, since it's a SARM and specificly targets Androgen receptors, I would consider it nearly impossible.

I've red many different theories based on many different studies, about how and why Adrol causes Estrogenic side effects without being able to actually convert to Estrogens. In many cases it's been said to raise Prolactin or being a Progestin as you suggested, but personally what I've found to be most accurate, and what I base my arguments about it is very well stated in this text (I belive the author is Anthony Roberts):

"Since Anadrol 50 is derived from DHT, it cant actually convert to estrogen (via the aromatase enzyme), and its not a progestin or a compound with progestenic activity so the estrogenic (?) side effects produced by it are of a very mysterious nature. It has been speculated that perhaps it can stimulate the estrogen receptor without actually being converted to estrogen and that's about as plausible an explanation as Ive heard. However, things really get strange, when Oxymetholone has been used in studies to alter the female reproductive/menstrual cycle; in those cases, it has lowered plasma progesterone levels! (7)"

Anyway, Anadrol a topic for a different thread, and I'm not trying to start an argument with you about it, just stating my own opion own the subject...

 

[Viv1008]

Guys, I've started a 2nd osta cycle and spotted some gyno this time. What should be run along side this to reduce the gyno? I'm based in the uk so will need something a.s.a.p

Should I keep the cycle going until the Anti estrogen arrives or stop the osta right away?

 

[Oxbow]

@ nothernknight Do you think an AI is enough for preventing Osta gyno ? Actually on TRT it means you reduce your oestrogen levels just to limit oestrogen activity induced by Osta, right ? Isn't it a bad think to have a low Oestrogen level ? I mean, you need this hormone to live.

Second thing, what do you think about Nolvadex with Osta ?

 

[Nelson Montana]

I agree with you about 90%, since we are still learning new things about AAS discovered over 50 years ago, there certainly is lot more to learn about Ostarine and SARMs in general.

However, Anadrol is not a Progestin, and I've never seen any claims that Ostarine would interfere with Progesterone receptor, since it's a SARM and specificly targets Androgen receptors, I would consider it nearly impossible.

I've red many different theories based on many different studies, about how and why Adrol causes Estrogenic side effects without being able to actually convert to Estrogens. In many cases it's been said to raise Prolactin or being a Progestin as you suggested, but personally what I've found to be most accurate, and what I base my arguments about it is very well stated in this text (I belive the author is Anthony Roberts):

"Since Anadrol 50 is derived from DHT, it cant actually convert to estrogen (via the aromatase enzyme), and its not a progestin or a compound with progestenic activity so the estrogenic (?) side effects produced by it are of a very mysterious nature. It has been speculated that perhaps it can stimulate the estrogen receptor without actually being converted to estrogen and that's about as plausible an explanation as Ive heard. However, things really get strange, when Oxymetholone has been used in studies to alter the female reproductive/menstrual cycle; in those cases, it has lowered plasma progesterone levels! (7)"

Anyway, Anadrol a topic for a different thread, and I'm not trying to start an argument with you about it, just stating my own opion own the subject...

Drol isn't a progestin just like Dbol isn't a estro, but it seems to aggravate that activity in many people. But not all. At any rate, I agree, there are still a lot of unknowns. But at least human grade drugs are studied. Research chemicals are essentially experiments or things that have been passed over as not worthy of human usage. That's not to say they aren't effective, but it has to be addressed where the short comings might be.

 

[northernknight]

@ nothernknight Do you think an AI is enough for preventing Osta gyno ? Actually on TRT it means you reduce your oestrogen levels just to limit oestrogen activity induced by Osta, right ? Isn't it a bad think to have a low Oestrogen level ? I mean, you need this hormone to live.
Second thing, what do you think about Nolvadex with Osta ?

OTC AI like Formestane or Arimistane/Androsta has done the job well for me, and bunch other guys running Ostarine or LGD.
Just like always when using an AI, key is to balance your dose to keep your E2 under control, not over do it. You definitely never want to crush your Estrogen levels (unless absolutely necessary ie. When treating gyno with Letro), its a horrible feeling, just keep it under control.
That's why good OTC AI should be more than enough for Ostarine and LGD-4033. I've been using Liquidex AI from N2BM lately, and really like it, it's strong enough with moderate dosing to keep E2 under control from my TRT, and keep any gyno symptoms from LGD-4033 & Osta away. (And I always get at least minor gyno symptoms from them, if I'm not using some kind of anti-estrogen)

I don't have anything against Nolva, I actually did one experimental LGD run using Nolva instead of AI, and everything worked out pretty much same as with AI. I wouldn't still recommend using it, Nolva can be a very harsh drug to some, and it's a bit tricky to come off it after a long time without Estrogen rebound. It will be lot easier to just keep your Estrogen levels under control with AI, and probably also healthier since there is no need to use heavier AIs like Adex or Letro which would influence your lipids.

EDIT: So IME Nolva is best used for gyno flare ups, it works fast and for most it works well, but an AI should be used to prevent the whole issue happening.

 

[Viv1008]

Will nolva or aromasin get rid of the lump that's already there? I assume it will get rid of the puffiness?

 

[Viv1008]

Can someone PM me and tell me a good source of aromasin? I am based in the UK and need a quick supply before this thing gets worse!

 

[northernknight]

Will nolva or aromasin get rid of the lump that's already there? I assume it will get rid of the puffiness?

How did you get it? From Osta? How long has it been there? You need to tell as much details as you can, so we can help you out, stats, cycle you got the gyno from, bloodwork if you have any, everything that might be relevant to the situation. Fill us in and I'm sure you will get help you are looking for.

Also, (even if it's from Osta, and so fort relative to this thread) you should start your own thread about this, it's proper etiquette thing...

 

[Viv1008]

Thanks for getting back to me. I did an osta cycle last year and had some great gains. Then earlier this year I started a new osta cycle and two weeks into it, I notice puffy, sensitive breasts and a hard painful lump under my left greats, like a peanut. I've had it for about 10 days or so.

Can you advise please? I've done some research and have been told evista would be a good choice to run alongside the osta and should reverse the gyno as it's not been too long. Is this correc?

 

[northernknight]

Thanks for getting back to me. I did an osta cycle last year and had some great gains. Then earlier this year I started a new osta cycle and two weeks into it, I notice puffy, sensitive breasts and a hard painful lump under my left greats, like a peanut. I've had it for about 10 days or so.

Can you advise please? I've done some research and have been told evista would be a good choice to run alongside the osta and should reverse the gyno as it's not been too long. Is this correc?

I've heard good things about Ralox, so definitely try it if you want to. However I don't remember much info about it, so I can't advice on its use protocol or dosage atm.

Combination of an AI and SERM should reverse your gyno, especially since it hasn't been there a long.
You pretty much have two options for an AI to choose from using with Ralox, either go with Aromasin which tolerated very well without side effects by most, or Letrozole which is extremely harsh, but it's also very effective against gyno.

I believe that you have good chance of knocking out your gyno with combination of Aromasin and Ralox (Evista). Use Aromasin at 25 mg ED until gyno subsides. Like I mentioned I can't help with Ralox dosing, but you should be able to find the protocol by doing a search.

Now if that doesn't help, you will need to run Letro and Nolva. It's a bit trickier cycle to run, and you will also need at least few other things if you want to keep your libido going when on it (and a while afterwards), and sides as minimized health wise. You can read about couple versions of this kind of anti-gynocomastia cycles from evolutionary.org. You can also PM me if you want to know something more about the subject, or anything else.

Now what comes to continuing Ostarine, it's really up to you to decide. Personally, since you have only ran it for short time, I would stop it until gyno issue is under control. You can always start it again, and this time use something to prevent gyno from the beginning.
If you do go on with Ostarine, get everything mentioned ready so you have everything on hand if you need them (Aromasin, Letrozole, Nolva, and Ralox if you want to use it).

 

[Viv1008]

Thanks bro! You're a total legend! Now trying to find a place to get hold of all these substances in the UK!