Why do you guys take prohormones?

[Immortal Juicer]

If I might jump in Par. The studies looked at anabolic (myotropic) potency, not anabolic to androgenic ratio.

Thanks for clarifying. I dont know anything about the study but "7 times as anabolic" is an ambiguous claim, similair to Hydroxycut's 2500% better bullshit.

Originally posted by w_llewellyn Dbol is actually considered an anabolic, not an androgen.

I meant that steroids all have both anabolic and androgenic properties. Deca is high anabolic/low androgenic and Dbol is high anabolic/high androgenic. I wasnt implying an either/or situation.

Originally posted by w_llewellyn It is only laughable because in the real world estrogenic drugs are better for building mass for a variety of reasons. The rest of the statement makes no sense though. I don't even know how to comment on it.

1-Test could not have higher anabolic properties than test without having the higher androgenic and consequently estrogenic effects as well.

As for the nor-test thing, I wanted to account for drugs like Fina and Deca that aromatize to progesterone, not estrogen. I figured if I didnt someone would jump on my ass for that.

Originally posted by w_llewellyn 1-Test is a steroid. It only tricks you testicles and hypothalamus in stopping the release of testosterone and gonadotropic hormones. Same for all PH's.

Great. I have just never seen a prohormone manufacturer admit, much less advertise their products will suppress natural production. All I have advertised is the all of the benefits with none of the side effects.

Originally posted by w_llewellyn You statement makes little sense because 1) For years studies conflicted as to whether or not steroids could even build muscle and 2) it assumes that steroids not FDA approved should be useless, or are not supported by controlled studies, which is ridiculous. The studies come first, approval later. There is no way every AAS shown to be effective in studies could be approved for sale as a drug, as the market would be flooded and financially ruinous for steroid manufacturers. It is a business, not a contest.

I know steroids are not approved by the FDA, but to come to the market at all in any country they must be proven effective and safe to a degree.

Drug companies spend tons of money on R&D before a product makes it to the market if it does at all. There is no funded research required to put supplements on the market. That is why there has been the endless stream of shit flooding the sports nutrition-smilax, boron, hmb, chromium, wild yam, pyruvate, androstenedione, ipriflavone, etc...

Every month there is a new, latest and greatest supplement thats closer to steroids than ever before. Companies can throw anything out because they have nothing to lose if the new product sucks. Its also why once someone does hit on something that may work, every other company comes out with their own.

It is a business, there are no patents necessary partly because companies do not have to invest in R&D costs before putting out a product.

That is why countless supplements have come and gone but the handful of steroids have been around for the past 30-50 years. Drug companies cannot afford to introduce ineffective drugs.

While you did point out some technical errors of mine, you still didnt answer my question: why would someone take prohormones for any reason other the legality?

And for Gods sake, why would you be willing to make 1-test with an animal kit and inject it, but not willing to take Sustanon??

Guys make Fina with a kit because Parabolan isnt available, Vet Tren is expensive as hell and it is the same, not a precursor.

On a different note, my doctor let me borrow his copy of Anabolics 2002. He said it was excellently written, thoroughly researched, and medically sound and accurate. I've got a great doctor who monitors my health and blood work while I'm cycling. He honest with me and doenst give me that steroids kill bullshit. I was suprised when he told me he bought the book. I was also kind of suprised when he spoke so highly of it. I figured a doctor would try to discredit it for not being a medical textbook.

Anyway, thanks for the great books. I'ts tough to arguing with the source of much of my information!

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

1-Test could not have higher anabolic properties than test without having the higher androgenic and consequently estrogenic effects as well.

Nobody is saying in the real world it will put on more muscle than testosterone. It is likened most commonly to steroids like trenbolone and Primobolan, which do not aromatize but are decent tissue building steroids. I think we are arguing around each other, as I'm sure you will agree that it is a steroid is not useless just because it doesn't convert to estrogen.

As for the nor-test thing, I wanted to account for drugs like Fina and Deca that aromatize to progesterone, not estrogen. I figured if I didnt someone would jump on my ass for that.

Neither converts to progesterone. They both exhibit progestational activity via interaction with the progesterone receptor.

Great. I have just never seen a prohormone manufacturer admit, much less advertise their products will suppress natural production. All I have advertised is the all of the benefits with none of the side effects.

That type of advertising is BS, and not all PH companies market like this.

Every month there is a new, latest and greatest supplement thats closer to steroids than ever before. Companies can throw anything out because they have nothing to lose if the new product sucks.

1-Test is a real steroid, and a particularly potent one at that. If I chose to sell products that suck I would lose respect for myself.

It is a business, there are no patents necessary partly because companies do not have to invest in R&D costs before putting out a product.

Patents apply in every business. It is just that in this one people tend to think they can ignore them. Several prohormones are patented now.

That is why countless supplements have come and gone but the handful of steroids have been around for the past 30-50 years. Drug companies cannot afford to introduce ineffective drugs.

The laws in the U.S. only recently allowed us to sell things like prohormones and 1-test via the way they were worded. In many other countries they are considered steroids, and similar not allowed to be sold.

why would someone take prohormones for any reason other the legality?

Legality is the primary reason of course. If I did use steroids though, I'd still like 1-test, as I'd probably find a use for a non-aromatizing compound from time to time, and without using C-17aa's my choices are limited.

And for Gods sake, why would you be willing to make 1-test with an animal kit and inject it, but not willing to take Sustanon??

I'm not willing to take Sustanon because the propionate makes my ass swell and gives me a fever. I'd also not think of injecting 1-test, considering all the negative feedback about it.

Guys make Fina with a kit because Parabolan isnt available, Vet Tren is expensive as hell and it is the same, not a precursor.

1-Test is not a precursor.

Anyway, thanks for the great books. I'ts tough to arguing with the source of much of my information!

Thanks for the feedback. Hopefuly, with a little work, we will help you see the true steroid in 1-testosterone.

- Bill

 

[manny78]

Try Sustanon 250 and you will see how stupid you sound.

yup with arimidex and poufff !

 

[Par Deus]

I dont think you understand what anabolic means as it relates to muscle growth.

For fuck's sake. "Anabolic" means promoting the synthesis of more complex substances from simple ones. In relation to muscle growth, that means it promotes the synthesis of muscle tissue from proteins. And as Bill said, the 700% figure is in regards to growth of the levator ani muscle -- I thought about using the term "myotropic", but I thought you would probably not know what it meant -- after your post, I am quite certain my assumption was correct.

Steroids are described as "anabolic" in relationship with their androgenic properties. Highly anabolic compounds like deca, winstrol, and primobolan are condsidered so because they are low androgenic. Test, A-50, and Dbol are considered androgens because they are highly androgenic.

They are all androgens, in that they bind to the androgen receptor, and they are all anabolic, in that they promote muscle growth.

The claim that 1-Test or any compound in "7X as anabolic as test" is laughable because the product would also be 7X as estrogenic as test provided that it is not a nor-test derivitive.

WOW!! So, there is a 100% correlation between estrogenic and anabolic activity?? Could you point me to that study????

Your hormones and body work a certain way. No supplement no matter how cool the ad is can trick your testicles and hypothalmus.

No shit -- I specifically said you were right in that regard.

I'm still stuck with only one logical reason, legality/availibility.

Though several prohormone/1-test products are very effective, I cannot help but think that to say that if you could get Parabolan at Wal-Mart, people would not be buying them is about the most unspectacular conclusion I have ever heard.

 

[Immortal Juicer]

You are totally missing the point of this thread. You are tearing up my argument about 1-Test because I dont know anything about it and thats not the point. I never said 1-Test didnt work. That entire post is a sales pitch about 1-Test.

Without testimony about the greatness of 1-Test, answer my question.

What is the logic behind "all legal" bodybuilders that take prohormones but will not take AAS?

 

[HighIntensity]

bro your missing the point. are "real" roids going to give you better gains than prohormones "YES". no shit, thanks for the info.

People take pro's because there legal and can get to your door in three days. 1Test will work a lot like anavar, yea I did not blow up on it. But im more vascualar and stronger...I use pros to bridge and done right they can be effective.

 

[jenoben]

Immortal
For me personally the only prohormones that I like is 1-AD, I have never tried 1-test. The sides are way lower and there's no way you can deny that, I mean in the summer time who wants to have the acne back and oily skin--it's not very cool.

I've done test, deca, winny and their all great but the sides are generally not worth it. Although in the winter i'll probably do a dbol, test, armidex cycle--but that's winter.

Honestly, if your not prone to acne and don't care about the legality issue, then aas are the best bang for the buck. But, honestly give 1-AD a try and then come back on here and let me know what you think--the pumps, strength gains are very solid.

 

[Par Deus]

Without testimony about the greatness of 1-Test, answer my question.

What is the logic behind "all legal" bodybuilders that take prohormones but will not take AAS?

Do you have reading comprehension issues??? I addressed that in two separate instances. To make it easy:

1) "They are legal, easily obtainable, and likely to contain what they are supposed to."

2) "Though several prohormone/1-test products are very effective, I cannot help but think that to say that if you could get Parabolan at Wal-Mart, people would not be buying them is about the most unspectacular conclusion I have ever heard."

 

[Ulter]

1-Testosterone is comparable to Tren. You guys are kidding right?

You guys beat everything. This is a classic example of what's wrong with the supp business. Bill you've cycled and if you've used tren then you know how ridiculous you two sound. Par Deus maybe you actually believe what you are saying is true. There's no way to know because not having used tren you're totally in the dark. But I don't think so. I think you both know full well the crap you're peddling to these guys. The only reason either of you post here is self-promotion and that's become obvious to even the most casual observer. Hell Par Deus has publicly blasted the people at Elite as being retards*. Now he wants these same "retards" to believe his 1-testosterone crap simply to make a buck.

*"A thousand posts from the retards on the Anabolics board at Elite are worth about one from any other board (there is a reason it is the one every other board makes fun of.) "

Par Dues Jan 19, 2002

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

1-Testosterone is comparable to Tren. You guys are kidding right?

You guys beat everything. This is a classic example of what's wrong with the supp business. Bill you've cycled and if you've used tren then you know how ridiculous you two sound. Par Deus maybe you actually believe what you are saying is true. There's no way to know because not having used tren you're totally in the dark. But I don't think so. I think you both know full well the crap you're peddling to these guys. The only reason either of you post here is self-promotion and that's become obvious to even the most casual observer. Hell Par Deus has publicly blasted the people at Elite as being retards*. Now he wants these same "retards" to believe his 1-testosterone crap simply to make a buck.

Ulter,

We are both saying I'm sure that it is qualitatively similar to tren. We are not advocating the obsolescence of the home fina kit, or minimizing the value of a good bottle of Ttokkyo Tren. I've used trenbolone, and know how potent an androgen it is.

That said, 1-Test does bind to the AR with a closer affinity to tren than most other steroids. It too is a very potent non-aromatizing androgen, and I say again, qualitatively similar to it.

Ulter, I’m sure you know enough to understand that 1-test is a steroid, and that it is comparably a very potent one at that. The fact that it is sold as a nutritional supplement is miraculous. If the laws changed tomorrow, and we could bottle Primo, would you call it worthless? Of course not, because you know about this steroid. Take off the 1-methyl group and you have 1-Test, an obscure steroid OTOH (because it was never marketed). Some people are resistant to it because they see it in a store instead of a dealer’s gym bag, and do not understand anything about it except that it is legal. But it is a steroid, and far from "crap" as you insinuate.

And self-promotion? That’s funny. Don’t you sell Yohimburn, primarily through attention you draw to it on the boards? Shit man, you've got an active link on your signature.

- Bill