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WHY CARDIO makes you FAT!

drveejay11

New member
From BadKitty @ BodyBuilding4Life

by David Lewandowski, D.C.

I know what you're thinking. How can something that burns calories make you fat? Well, I don't mean instantly. This is a process. Any process requires time. So those hours upon hours of aerobics you see Mr. Muscles of an Eleven-Year Old Girl Scout doing, are, in the long run, going to act counter to every reason why he is doing them. The fact that you are reading this probably is an indication that you most likely aren't doing anything considered purely aerobic (with oxygen) anyway. But just in case, I will explain what it is I am saying.

There appears to be two reasons why someone would do aerobics. First, they think that they will burn significant calories for weight loss. Secondly, a very popular misconception is that aerobics will improve cardiovascular condition to a greater extent than weight training alone. Somehow aerobics will therefore "complete" an exercise program which is not only geared towards keeping their heart healthy but will also add muscle mass.

Let's look at the first reason that people do aerobics. For the average individual (Ya, who in the hell want's to be average?) walking a mile or running a mile will take the same amount of calories to do, about 100. And since there is 3,500 calories in a pound of fat, you "only" have to walk 35 miles to lose a pound of fat(100cal. X 35miles = 3,500cal). Say you want to lose 10 pounds. Why that's "only" 350 miles of hitting the pavement. What a bargain! For the grossly overweight, You merely have to stroll 3,500 miles to lose those extra 350,000 fat calories or 100lbs! Just think, all you have to do is add in not eating for a couple of months, quitting your job, leaving your family, and walking across the country to lose that unsightly chubb.

The body is a very efficient fat storage unit. Exercise for the purpose of fat loss is doomed to failure because of the stingy release of fat stores for the action of low intensity activities, which aerobics are by definition. You simply are not able to do enough aerobic activity as part of a healthy lifestyle for the rest of your life. Some will say that they have, and maybe they have, but at what cost? The overuse injuries from aerobics are inevitable. If you aren't doing them you can't be burning calories. If you are injured you can't do them. Muscle on the other hand isn't wasted at the same lightening rate that aerobic conditioning is lost. How many do you know that started doing aerobics in the seventies are still doing them? I don't mean the constant layoff people that are always starting to run again or something of that ilk. What I am getting at is that muscle requires approximately 50-100 calories per pound per day just to maintain. Where as fat requires somewhere around a measly 2-3 calories per pound per day. Muscle is really the only metabolically active tissue that you can exert control over. It requires calories at rest! This is a boon to anyone wanting to lose body fat. The more muscle one has the more calories they can burn at rest without even lifting a finger! This is important. Say you gain 10lbs of muscle. You would burn from 500 to 1000 calories a day extra with no "aerobic" activity just by merely breathing. Pretty cool, right? One week with no change in caloric intake, and without any of those fruity aerobics, would result in 1-2lbs of fat lost (500 and 1000X's 7 = 3,500-7000 calories, respectively). All this would take place considering that you paid attention to significant protein intake. Enough to allow for maintenance of existing muscle mass, enzyme production, shedding of the intestines, neurotransmitters, skin, hair, nails, and repair of any damaged muscle during a workout, etc. Even if that equals ½lbs minus the water weight that still is a rather significant amount of protein. Far more than what most ingest. Granted there is some reclamation that takes place but even accounting for this most trainees do not get enough to maintain growth beyond their current levels. Doing aerobics further exacerbates the problem because it prevents one from fully recovering from a workout and the maintenance of calorie burning muscle tissue.

Now let's look at the second reason someone would do aerobics: cardiovascular conditioning. Just by the name one could conjure up a picture of a massive powerful heart. The heart will grow some as far as left ventricle thickness is concerned but the main increase in the ability to do long duration (greater than about 30 seconds) low intensity exercise comes from the skeletal muscle's increased efficiency at using supplied oxygen, improved CO2 dumping ability, and the regeneration rate of ATP(the energy molecule) by adenosine triphosphatase. Since oxygen consumption and CO2 expiration are rarely a problem as long as a person is breathing, the regeneration of ATP seems to be the most important factor for increased aerobic capacity. So, exercise that demands the more immediate regeneration of ATP in greater amounts is by far the greater stimulus for improved energy production from ATP. Aerobic exercise doesn't require the same rate of regeneration as weight training with short rest periods between sets and therefore is less of a stress to the body's existing homeostatic controls. It is just like when one is seeking to improve muscle mass. The greater the intensity of muscular contraction the more likely you have disrupted homeostasis. The body responds by increasing it's reserves of the needed materials just in case the same or similar stress is encountered again in the near future. It will then be able to absorb the stress without great homeostatic upset and the consummate cell death. That is if the body is given enough time to produce such stores. Aerobics are usually done with such frequency that this hardly ever occurs over time in connective tissue (other than muscle due to it's good blood supply). The result is overuse injuries that were rarely seen before the aerobics craze except for cases of child/slave labor. They are now self-inflicted. No big price to pay because now you can run 4 miles instead of 1. Well, not so fast. If the demand to regenerate ATP is contingent on exercise intensity and HIT style anaerobic exercise demands the most then wouldn't it make sense that your ability to regenerate ATP would be better improved by doing intense weight training rather than long duration low intensity training? I know this to be true for myself because I will purposely avoid aerobic activity for long periods of time (like 2 months) and actually increase my aerobic capacity in activities such as hiking, biking, and running. This is because any activity greatly below a max 500lbs deadlift or squat, for example, will require such a miniscule amount from the body's capacity that it can be continued for great periods of time without fatigue. If you have done an activity long enough, as I have, then skill isn't much of a factor. Though I do recognize that being uncoordinated in an activity requires more energy to do, with low skill activities this becomes negligible.

You now have two reasons not to do aerobic activities to improve fat loss and increase cardiovascular efficiency. One because they aren't good for burning calories and two because they don't contribute much to conditioning the heart. The only reason I would recommend aerobics would be in an activity such as walking which really is aerobic and not stuck in the neitherland between anaerobic (without oxygen) and aerobic activities such as jogging. Besides, doing something like walking in the sunlight relaxes the mind by slowing the world down and allows your mind time to wonder and to smell the roses.

Simply stated aerobics will make most fat over time because of one's inability to do them for a lifetime and because aerobics reduce your ability to maintain calorie burning muscle tissue in any significant amount. And also realize that even though you might see some Iron Man athletes with some muscle and low body fat levels, be aware that steroids are now common place even in events considered aerobic. For the non-drugged trainer adding meaningless aerobic activity to an intense HIT program amounts to overtraining. The less muscle you can maintain the less calories you can eat before increasing fat storage. If it is pretty much impossible for the drugged genetically expressive athlete to maintain muscle doing both weight training and aerobics. How in the hell do you think the common trainee will fair incorporating both into a training routine?

I suggest dropping activities other than weight training and slow walking for a period of at least 6 months and see just how much your size, strength, and, yes, definition improve. Accordingly, indulge in an aerobic activity after the 6 months every 4 weeks or so and note the level of exertion. Also be cognizant of your strength in the workout following the aerobic session. I am confident you'll soon realize what a waste aerobics are for those concerned with increasing size and strength while maintaining a healthy cardiovascular system.

:bawling:
 
By theway..before I get flamed into tomorrow, I don't necessarily believe everything in this article. I just trhought it was an interesting read.
 
i gotta say one thing........... damn this makes me think!!
 
I NEVER use cardio to get cut, and I am between 5-7 percent when not bulking.
 
acutally, i'll tell you some'n about my experiences with and without cardio.....

i've always been a believer in bulking naturally and using steroids only for cutting.

when i cut, it was usually on 500mg sustanon or 600mg deca. maybe i'd stack some oral at a low dose but for the most part i kept it simple. my diet was super clean and i'd do a.m cardio 4-5 times a week.

so 6 weeks ago, it was time for yet another cutter. i decided to go with 400mg deca/400mg primo. i was clean for one week... ate clean, worked out like a madman, and did my a.m cardio. but at week 2 i ran outta steam. i realized that i'm not mentally ready for a cutter.

with that in mind, i continued the dosage as planned but cut out all cardio and ate 4000 cals a day which is about 500-700 more than what i should be eating per day.

it is now the end of week 6 and the results are unbelievable...

i'm up to 210 pounds from about 202. my bodyfat, despite the extra cals, is about the same.

keep in mind that during previous cutters i'd lose a lot of fat but not gain that much muscle. strenght increase was only very minor on cutters.

in all, i dont think i'll be doing any more cardio in the near future. there just isnt a point. at the end of this cycle i should be 220 if not more and if i cut back on 500 cals a day, i should be burning about 1-1.5 pounds of fat per week.

over 3 months, thats about 15 pounds of fat.

FUCK CARDIO!
 
40butpumpin said:
that article is horse shit to put it mildly.

I agree... I have been stuck at 10-12% BF for years and I never did cardio... Now I do and I am at 9% and dropping. I think some don't need it... some do.

I don't think you need to kill yourself though. 60-75% max heart rate is good enough.
 
Well....not that it matters MUCH these days but the guy's a DOC. (ok.....start flaming :rolleyes: )

"David Lewandowski, D.C."

DC =Doctor of Chiropractic
 
i wouldnt say that cardio will make you fat, but its certainly not a must if one's interest is slow and even fat loss without sacrifcing muscle tissue.
 
alright now let me put something out there, for people that are already lean and want to drop a little bf and or get rid of a little fat.and even just get ripped. would be a lot diffrent than a person that has a lot to knock off!!! it wouldnt be the same.

and to say you will gain from it :shoot:
-matt
 
OK to be fair...there are some good points about losing weight because of muscle mass buring calories...but that's nutrition 101. The most important point, in my opinion, is long term fat loss (or maintaining weight) isn't best suited by doing cardio.

My Example of this point is the following:
When I was in High School I decided to try wrestling...I had never done it before and at the start of the season I was a tub of goo. I worked my ass off every day doing aerobic excersise (wrestling, running, etc.) and eat a low calorie diet. I went from aprox. 20%BF (158lbs) to around 10% (135lbs) by the end of the season and looked fucking cut.

Over the next 3 years of college I gained it all back plus more because I didn't maintain the strick wrestling regiment. At the start of this summer I started heavy weight training...used some supplements and made some good gains. I've just finished my 1st cycle of sustanon and have lost 3% BF and gained 20lbs on that cycle alone. I am not "massive eating" or anything like that...regular diet (except for protien shakes). Weight lifting may not provide as dramatic results in as short a period of time...but it provides results for a longer period of time and is more practical throughout your entire life.

This is why I don't understand why people tell ANYONE that they should try to lose weight before taking test. If you take test, hit the weights hard and stay on a reasonable diet you will both lose weight and gain muscle! ...this is of course assuming you're not already at peak potential.

OK let the flaming commence!
 
the only kind of cardio i do is running. there was a time when i was skinny bcoz of that. then i cut down on running and started bulking and there hasn't been much difference in bf in spite of a pig out style bulking diet. having said that i am asthmatic and do take corticosteroids very often. and the reason i run is bcoz of the asthma- it has helped my lungs but i do suspect it affects my ability to put on more muscle mass.
 
Good read, the article is very factual. Many skin and bones world class distance runners are actually clincially obese. They posess more than 30% bodyfat with minimal muscle. The bottom line is that if you engage in an intense aerobics program, forget muscle growth to any extent. Weight traing will not hinder your aerobic capaicity to any extent (provided you train hard) but intense aerobics will squash your ability to build the maximum muscle and strength that you are capable of.

Its all about what an individual wants to shoot for, being half ass in several areas, or the best that he can be in a specific area. How many handy men, so called jack of all trades, make the big bucks?

If you want to do aerobics, great, just don't over train with it or you will burn valueable muscle. Personally I like to hike fairly rugged trails.:)
 
satchboogie said:
acutally, i'll tell you some'n about my experiences with and without cardio.....

i've always been a believer in bulking naturally and using steroids only for cutting.

when i cut, it was usually on 500mg sustanon or 600mg deca. maybe i'd stack some oral at a low dose but for the most part i kept it simple. my diet was super clean and i'd do a.m cardio 4-5 times a week.

so 6 weeks ago, it was time for yet another cutter. i decided to go with 400mg deca/400mg primo. i was clean for one week... ate clean, worked out like a madman, and did my a.m cardio. but at week 2 i ran outta steam. i realized that i'm not mentally ready for a cutter.

with that in mind, i continued the dosage as planned but cut out all cardio and ate 4000 cals a day which is about 500-700 more than what i should be eating per day.

it is now the end of week 6 and the results are unbelievable...

i'm up to 210 pounds from about 202. my bodyfat, despite the extra cals, is about the same.

keep in mind that during previous cutters i'd lose a lot of fat but not gain that much muscle. strenght increase was only very minor on cutters.

in all, i dont think i'll be doing any more cardio in the near future. there just isnt a point. at the end of this cycle i should be 220 if not more and if i cut back on 500 cals a day, i should be burning about 1-1.5 pounds of fat per week.

over 3 months, thats about 15 pounds of fat.

FUCK CARDIO!

Ya know, from what i've seen most of the people that hate cardio are extreme ectomorphs, and judging from your picture you seem to be another. Coming from someone that was formerly 60-70 lbs overweight, lemme tell you...NOTHING helps burning fat like cardio does. NOTHING.

Does diet alone improve glucose clearance for up to 24 hours? NO
Does diet alone release mood enhancing endorphins ? NO
Does diet alone improve insulin sensitivity? NO

Muscle wasting is only an issue if you overdo cardio, or don't do weight training simultaneously...from personal experience.
 
I will probably get flammed and yelled at, so I won't even look at this thread again after posting :) and I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything. Cardio is mostly used by people that don't know how to diet, it's that simple. They use cardio as a means of fixing there poor diet. The thing is, most people have no freaking clue on how to actually diet. I mean, why do you think every Olympian pays over 5 grand a year for nutrition information, marking out every little thing to eat, it's because it is really hard to make a diet that works for you. I got really lucky and found some people that did it for me that charge that amount, and I needed no cardio except at the very end to get as lean as possible. Cardio does work, but dieting then adding in cardio works so much better. If you are 10% or over, and can't go any lower, thats your diet, I don't think anyone should be doing cardio over 10% for fat loss. But in the same breathe, most people can't afford to get a diet made for them, so they have to use cardio to drop bodyfat, simple because they can't get the information they need for there dieting. So yes, cardio does work of course, but when people say they have to do cardio, well, that just means they don't have a good diet, and your not gonna find a good diet on the internet, simply because a good diet has to be taylored to the person, everyone is different, and the people that are good cost a lot of money, simply because it works so well. I mean, the difference between me consuming a 4oz potato and a 5oz potato meant wether I had an 8pack of abs or a 4pack of abs within 2 hours of eating. So yes, Cardio does work, but diet works so much better, cause if you start cardio over 10%, you will get lean, but it's gonna be really hard to get real lean, and it doesn't matter your body type, if you are obese or skinny, it's all diet. Okay, that just just my opionion, and I still have the flu, so BE NICE! ;) :) :) :)
 
i think of this article to be geared more towards those people you see pounding away at the stairmaster or ellipitical 2 times a day, every day, and not supporting it with a proper diet.. they dont realize that they are just burning away muscle and in the end, leaving there body with little muscle and a low RMR.. thus they have to do cardio for the rest of their lives because there is nothing left on their body to burn off the calories
 
Just like any type of activity, the body will adjust to the tasks set to it. Saying cardio will make you fat is like saying that when you stop lifting muscle will turn to fat. Your body will adjsut over time to the loads and types of loads it is given, if you fail to account for changes in lifestyle by changes in diet then weight gain can occure.
 
BrickGirl said:
I will probably get flammed and yelled at, so I won't even look at this thread again after posting :) and I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything. Cardio is mostly used by people that don't know how to diet, it's that simple. They use cardio as a means of fixing there poor diet. The thing is, most people have no freaking clue on how to actually diet. I mean, why do you think every Olympian pays over 5 grand a year for nutrition information, marking out every little thing to eat, it's because it is really hard to make a diet that works for you. I got really lucky and found some people that did it for me that charge that amount, and I needed no cardio except at the very end to get as lean as possible. Cardio does work, but dieting then adding in cardio works so much better. If you are 10% or over, and can't go any lower, thats your diet, I don't think anyone should be doing cardio over 10% for fat loss. But in the same breathe, most people can't afford to get a diet made for them, so they have to use cardio to drop bodyfat, simple because they can't get the information they need for there dieting. So yes, cardio does work of course, but when people say they have to do cardio, well, that just means they don't have a good diet, and your not gonna find a good diet on the internet, simply because a good diet has to be taylored to the person, everyone is different, and the people that are good cost a lot of money, simply because it works so well. I mean, the difference between me consuming a 4oz potato and a 5oz potato meant wether I had an 8pack of abs or a 4pack of abs within 2 hours of eating. So yes, Cardio does work, but diet works so much better, cause if you start cardio over 10%, you will get lean, but it's gonna be really hard to get real lean, and it doesn't matter your body type, if you are obese or skinny, it's all diet. Okay, that just just my opionion, and I still have the flu, so BE NICE! ;) :) :) :)

>Does diet alone improve glucose clearance for up to 24 hours? NO
>Does diet alone release mood enhancing endorphins ? NO
>Does diet alone improve insulin sensitivity? NO
 
cardio improves bp and helps lipid profiles. if you use aas, this alone is a good reason to walk vigorously 4 or 5 times a week for 30 minutes.

wasn't chris aceto the one nutrionist who said cardio at 30 minutes or lower in fat burning mode is not enough to chew up aminos necessary for muscle growth/maintenance? coming from him, i'll keep my cardio.
 
Originally posted by BrickGirl
I will probably get flammed and yelled at, so I won't even look at this thread again after posting and I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings or anything. Cardio is mostly used by people that don't know how to diet, it's that simple. They use cardio as a means of fixing there poor diet. The thing is, most people have no freaking clue on how to actually diet. I mean, why do you think every Olympian pays over 5 grand a year for nutrition information, marking out every little thing to eat, it's because it is really hard to make a diet that works for you. I got really lucky and found some people that did it for me that charge that amount, and I needed no cardio except at the very end to get as lean as possible. Cardio does work, but dieting then adding in cardio works so much better. If you are 10% or over, and can't go any lower, thats your diet, I don't think anyone should be doing cardio over 10% for fat loss. But in the same breathe, most people can't afford to get a diet made for them, so they have to use cardio to drop bodyfat, simple because they can't get the information they need for there dieting. So yes, cardio does work of course, but when people say they have to do cardio, well, that just means they don't have a good diet, and your not gonna find a good diet on the internet, simply because a good diet has to be taylored to the person, everyone is different, and the people that are good cost a lot of money, simply because it works so well. I mean, the difference between me consuming a 4oz potato and a 5oz potato meant wether I had an 8pack of abs or a 4pack of abs within 2 hours of eating. So yes, Cardio does work, but diet works so much better, cause if you start cardio over 10%, you will get lean, but it's gonna be really hard to get real lean, and it doesn't matter your body type, if you are obese or skinny, it's all diet. Okay, that just just my opionion, and I still have the flu, so BE NICE!


Everything that your saying is true:) The original post is also true majority of content although I think the title is misleading.:)
 
Cardio is great for your heart and overall wellness. Go on a nice bike ride in the morning and you feel great. Diet is key in the game, but cardio has its place.
 
ulter said:
It's calories in, calories burned, period.

Cardio burns.

that wasn't the point of the post though...the point of the post is that cardio provides temporary fat loss...but it eats your muscle...which is the best way to have prolonged fat loss...

Your muscles will burn 50-100 calories/lb per day just at rest...not moving at all....your body doesn't run for you while you sit on the couch. Granted you have to work your muscles or they will deterorate...but that's the point...they do the aerobic job too.
 
Please change this thread's topic to:

"Why writing an article on exercise physiology by a Doctor Of Chiropracty makes you a stupid fuck"
 
Everyone's body is diffrent!!! some people can eat whatever they want and they dont gain wait others woulddgain alot! same goes for cardio. it works for some people and some dont need it!
i think diet is huge, but i also think cardio helps too....
-matt
 
my neighbor who is a helluva nice guy is training for a tri-athlon and he take it very seriously. i could not do justice trying to describe how much cardio he is doing. he's 29 and I am 43. now he could outrun, bike, or swim me by a long shot, but he must still be 20-30 pounds overweight with a big gut. I have caught him staring at me (kinda creepy sometimes) like he cannot believe it is possible to look this way at my age. the human body was not meant to spend extreme amounts of time doing aerobics. except for birds I really cannot think of any mammal that is. take my dog for example. sleeps most of the day. but when he goes it is with super high intensity. that beast is all muscle. who looks healthier the marathon guys or the sprinters?
 
Okay, why not...

Quick points.

Everyone who talks about how much weight they lost doing cardio started out overweight. ANY exersice will make you lose weight if you're overweight and overeating.

Fact:Cardio is exercise. PERIOD! It is nothing magical. It is simply activity. Anything it does, weight training does better.

Why are people dissing the author of that piece because he's a Chiropractor? Are the people who disagree any more qualified? I know many chiropractors who will tell you they see more messed up knees from...quess who? Runners.

And by the way, here in NY they hold the Mrtathon every fall and my wife and I usually go to Central Park for the finish -- and let me tell you -- we see A LOT of fat people crossing that finish line. (Except for the top guys from Kenya who weigh 120 pounds)

Zyg is right that the body adapts to any activity but he overlooked one simple fact -- weight training is by nature progressive. The resistance increases as you progress. That isn't the case with aerobics. And as proven by the fat finishers of the Marathon, after a while, the ability to execute the activity provides no alteration of body composition.

Now feel free to disagree. (But you'll be wrong).
 
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increasing distance and/or speed are methods to progress in aerobics type exercises, or even adding those little wrist/ankle weights.. but I suppose that is now essentially becoming a form of weight training :)
 
If you want to keep the muscle and do the cardio you gotta take the drugs. My friend and i have done about 6 cycles together. When we do a cutter, we do a cutter. Cardio out the ass, and good clean strict diet. You gotta do the cardio, diet alone aint enough, to get really ripped. When we do the cut cycles, we always keep the muscle we gained form the previous bulk cycle and we even put on a few pounds of lean muscle in the process. Well his girl found out what he was doing and said "me or the steroids". He quit, right before we were getting ready to start a cutting cycle, we had finished up a nice bulk cycle and were ready to shed some of the fat we put on. Well, I got on some winny, anavar, and a little test. He stayed natural. I aint lying when I say I could see the muscle coming off of him after about 2 weeks of doing cardio. I told him since he was natural he might want to cut back or even stop the cardio and stick to a strict diet. Well he went on for another 3 weeks of the cardio (5-6 times a week) and the fool got smaller then he has ever been. Finally he agreed what was happening and he stopped the cardio. He is finally putting some muscle back on. Now he aint getting as ripped as me like he usually does when he is doing cardio, (which is pissing him off) but at least he aint losing muscle. The point is, I guess, if you wanna get shredded, I mean shredded, you have to do THE CARDIO! Diet alone aint gonna do it. And from my experience to keep the muscle while doing the cardio, you gotta be on the juice.
 
I maintain that you don't have the proper perspective on this because you are an EXTREME ectomorph. Having been a lard ass in the past, I can conclusively state for myself any many others that running, weight lifting and diet is much better than diet and weightlifting alone.

Nelson Montana said:
Okay, why not...

Quick points.

Everyone who talks about how much weight they lost doing cardio started out overweight. ANY exersice will make you lose weight if you're overweight and overeating.

Fact:Cardio is exercise. PERIOD! It is nothing magical. It is simply activity. Anything it does, weight training does better.

Why are people dissing the author of that piece because he's a Chiropractor? Are the people who disagree any more qualified? I know many chiropractors who will tell you they see more messed up knees from...quess who? Runners.

And by the way, here in NY they hold the Mrtathon every fall and my wife and I usually go to Central Park for the finish -- and let me tell you -- we see A LOT of fat people crossing that finish line. (Except for the top guys from Kenya who weigh 120 pounds)

Zyg is right that the body adapts to any activity but he overlooked one simple fact -- weight training is by nature progressive. The resistance increases as you progress. That isn't the case with aerobics. And as proven by the fat finishers of the Marathon, after a while, the ability to execute the activity provides no alteration of body composition.

Now feel free to disagree. (But you'll be wrong).
 
Ah for cripes sake, post me one study where reasonable cardio affects lbm! Sheesh, this is enough to try anyones patience. Where do these mythis come from. Don't like it, don't do it! But for heaven's sake, don't make up stories and fabricate little myths as excuses.

"cardio provides temporary weight loss." Like diet doesn't? ANd to a lesser extent, weight training? stop any of these activities/approaches and guess what? nah, you'll never figure it out.

jb



cmtuggl said:


that wasn't the point of the post though...the point of the post is that cardio provides temporary fat loss...but it eats your muscle...which is the best way to have prolonged fat loss...

Your muscles will burn 50-100 calories/lb per day just at rest...not moving at all....your body doesn't run for you while you sit on the couch. Granted you have to work your muscles or they will deterorate...but that's the point...they do the aerobic job too.
 
Ah the proof. Nelson finally posts his logical proof that cardio does not work. let's see , what is it, oh, the fat finishers at marathons are those that have trained for so long that their bodies have adapted and are now fat because running 26 miles has no meatabolic effect. Go to the head of the class. :)

jb




Nelson Montana said:
Okay, why not...

Quick points.

Everyone who talks about how much weight they lost doing cardio started out overweight. ANY exersice will make you lose weight if you're overweight and overeating.

Fact:Cardio is exercise. PERIOD! It is nothing magical. It is simply activity. Anything it does, weight training does better.

Why are people dissing the author of that piece because he's a Chiropractor? Are the people who disagree any more qualified? I know many chiropractors who will tell you they see more messed up knees from...quess who? Runners.

And by the way, here in NY they hold the Mrtathon every fall and my wife and I usually go to Central Park for the finish -- and let me tell you -- we see A LOT of fat people crossing that finish line. (Except for the top guys from Kenya who weigh 120 pounds)

Zyg is right that the body adapts to any activity but he overlooked one simple fact -- weight training is by nature progressive. The resistance increases as you progress. That isn't the case with aerobics. And as proven by the fat finishers of the Marathon, after a while, the ability to execute the activity provides no alteration of body composition.

Now feel free to disagree. (But you'll be wrong).
 
jboldman said:
Ah the proof. Nelson finally posts his logical proof that cardio does not work. let's see , what is it, oh, the fat finishers at marathons are those that have trained for so long that their bodies have adapted and are now fat because running 26 miles has no meatabolic effect. Go to the head of the class. :)

jb

I find it fucking hilarious that you even posted that on this site. ...you tried to make your point by avoiding the facts:

1. Cardio (running) breaks down muscle
2. Most runners...although appearing to be skinny have a large BF% because they do so much running it continuously breaks down muscle to feed the energy their bodies needs to run.

If you want to support cardio, fine...yes calories in + calories out = gain/loss. BUT for overall BF loss for a prolonged period of time, weight training is much better. Weight training is also better because most people will be able to do it throughout their entire lives, unlike cardio.

If you want to make the point that cardio works just say you use it with roids/supplements while weight training and don't lose muscle...that is about the only viable example.
 
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note that many long distance runners eat mass amounts of carbohydrates to ensure their live/muscle glycogen stores are full.

nelson said exercise burns calories.. maybe I missed something but I don't think he said he was agreeing that it makes you fat, just that without progession your body will adapt to any particular situation, though I believe you can progress in running for example..

saying any one thing makes you fat is rediculous, 1 factor can mean very little in a large array of possible counter factors.

for every action, their is a reaction and for every reaction there is usually a possible counter action and it goes on... bottom line... you will find with most things there are many ways to accomplish similar end results.

hence why people will say 'oh this diet works it's the best'

then some other will tell how another diet is the best...
 
The point I was making was directed to a lifelong scenario. I thought I made that clear. There are many things that make people start being less active throughout their lives (injury, laziness, social stuff, medical conditions, etc.). In any case, assuming they only do cardio, which has broken down their muscles...so they're not burning as many calories a day, then stop doing the cardio THEY WILL get fat faster.

When I say faster, I'm talking in relation to weight lifting.

The bottom line:
CARDIO ->
1) burns calories & breaks down muscle...causing less calories to be burned
2) is harder to do regularly throughout life

WEIGHT LIFTING ->
1) burns calories & builds muscle...causing more calories to be burned
2) easier to do regularly throughout life
 
cmtuggl said:
The point I was making was directed to a lifelong scenario. I thought I made that clear. There are many things that make people start being less active throughout their lives (injury, laziness, social stuff, medical conditions, etc.). In any case, assuming they only do cardio, which has broken down their muscles...so they're not burning as many calories a day, then stop doing the cardio THEY WILL get fat faster.

When I say faster, I'm talking in relation to weight lifting.

The bottom line:
CARDIO ->
1) burns calories & breaks down muscle...causing less calories to be burned
2) is harder to do regularly throughout life

WEIGHT LIFTING ->
1) burns calories & builds muscle...causing more calories to be burned
2) easier to do regularly throughout life

CARDIO >>

BURNS MUSCLE IF YOU DONT PRACTICE PROPER NUTRITION, DONT DO IT IN CONJUNCTION WITH WEIGHTLIFTING, AND DO IT EXCESSIVELY. PERIOD!

I do cardio reguarly and never have a problem with muscle wasting.
 
everything is relative to other factors...

the amount of muscle burned during cardio(in the sense of aerobics such as running, will depend on certain factors, like intensity and amount of glycogen in the liver.

I don't see why it would be harder to do regularily throughout life, I guess that depends on the person....

weightlifting, burns calories and builds muscle(but pretty much only when consuming excess calories.. over maitanance) so factor 1 that it burns calories doesn't become a large issue if the person other wise would have eaten normally and not in excess to become obese.

and I don't see why it is nescaserrily easier to do then cardio in the sense of aerobics throughout life, but again I guess it depends on the person. :)
 
"fucking hilarious" is how i would describe this too. No one is suggesting cardio v weighttraining, we are on a bbing board, i think there might be an implicit assumption that most if not all of us here are doing weight training. What we are talking about is doing moderate amounts of non-resistance exercise which we term cardio for weight loss and fitness. No one is saying that weight training is bad, does not burn calories, yada yada, what we are saying is that moderate cardio in conjuction with weight training will allow for additional weight loss WITHOUT muscle loss.
What, cardio causes you to lose muscle? OK, show me! Just one teensy weensy study that shows moderate cardio in a healthy weight trained individual will cause a loss in lbm. Hmm, having trouble with that?

Did you check the title of this thread? It mentions cardio, i nowhere see lifelong marathon running mentioned as the cardio referenced. You are employing a typical montanarism, taking a very small subset of a class and using it to draw generalisms back to the much larger class.

Avoiding the facts? Huh? Can't do cardio all your life but can do weight lifting? Listen carefully, cardio can be many things including weight lifting, it is not exclusively running! Somehow i think the likelyhood that most of us will be able to walk around the block into our later years is much likier than bench pressing.

I really think you have missed the whole point of the discussion, we are not talking about either/or, we are talking about both!

Back to the muscle loss thing again? For something oft repeated but never proven all you have to do is come up that that single study. Afterall, the world is filled with exercise physiologists that have just about researched everything to death, surely ONE of them must have thought about this?

I'm not sure why so many folks have their undies in a bundle about this, it seems pretty simple, do it if it floats your boat, don't if it doesn't but until you can come up with something better than fat marathoners for proof leave well enough alone. Nelson really does not need any more sycophants.

jb



cmtuggl said:


I find it fucking hilarious that you even posted that on this site. ...you tried to make your point by avoiding the facts:

1. Cardio (running) breaks down muscle
2. Most runners...although appearing to be skinny have a large BF% because they do so much running it continuously breaks down muscle to feed the energy their bodies needs to run.

If you want to support cardio, fine...yes calories in + calories out = gain/loss. BUT for overall BF loss for a prolonged period of time, weight training is much better. Weight training is also better because most people will be able to do it throughout their entire lives, unlike cardio.

If you want to make the point that cardio works just say you use it with roids/supplements while weight training and don't lose muscle...that is about the only viable example.
 
This is an absolute ridiculous post. Plain and Simple. If I was a moderator, I'd woud have deleted it WAY before it could get out of control, which is obviously has done. Here it is. Cardio is benefitial for dropping excess bodyfat (and possible some hard earned musle if done incorrectly.) It's extremely mundane and takes pure dedication to do it often enough for it to be benefitial. If nothing else, it's also key for a healthly heart and lifestyle. NOW, we aren't talking running a triatholon or taking to the streets for 30+ miles. A mere 30 minutes on the treadmill or eliptical will do many fat bodybuilders justice. I, for one, use it only when I feel it's necessary to get down to 5-6%bf. Currenty, I'm about 8%. I train my ass off and will toss in a little cardio 3-4x a week for shits and giggles so I'm not sucking wind when I need to drop a few more % points and do it 5-6x a week. Just for clarification, my bench is around 350 and military around 225, so I'm not too much of a pud. I see too many fat ass bodybuilders who train (well, thats what they call it, they are in the gym) using 5x5 and talking on their cell between sets. They are the ones I hear say "CARDIO? F- CARDIO!)

Anywho, point is to each his own. Many of my comp. bodybuilders do little-no cardio up until about 4 weeks out. Some, do it all through bulking and cutting. We all metoblize fat and calories differently......so don't generalize shit by saying Cardio will make you fat.........toss it in a little bit and see if you don't FIANLLY see that thing called a six pack hiding under your chub......
 
JKurz1 said:
This is an absolute ridiculous post. Plain and Simple. If I was a moderator, I'd woud have deleted it WAY before it could get out of control, which is obviously has done. Here it is. Cardio is benefitial for dropping excess bodyfat (and possible some hard earned musle if done incorrectly.) It's extremely mundane and takes pure dedication to do it often enough for it to be benefitial. If nothing else, it's also key for a healthly heart and lifestyle. NOW, we aren't talking running a triatholon or taking to the streets for 30+ miles. A mere 30 minutes on the treadmill or eliptical will do many fat bodybuilders justice. I, for one, use it only when I feel it's necessary to get down to 5-6%bf. Currenty, I'm about 8%. I train my ass off and will toss in a little cardio 3-4x a week for shits and giggles so I'm not sucking wind when I need to drop a few more % points and do it 5-6x a week. Just for clarification, my bench is around 350 and military around 225, so I'm not too much of a pud. I see too many fat ass bodybuilders who train (well, thats what they call it, they are in the gym) using 5x5 and talking on their cell between sets. They are the ones I hear say "CARDIO? F- CARDIO!)

Anywho, point is to each his own. Many of my comp. bodybuilders do little-no cardio up until about 4 weeks out. Some, do it all through bulking and cutting. We all metoblize fat and calories differently......so don't generalize shit by saying Cardio will make you fat.........toss it in a little bit and see if you don't FIANLLY see that thing called a six pack hiding under your chub......
:D i agree 100%
 
JKurz1, how is this out of control? We are arguing a great issue.

My negative comments about aerobics relate to when they are done alone…or with great intensity for an extended period of time. The original article on this thread claims ANY aerobics is bad. Here is another great article, one which I tend to agree with more than the original article in this thread.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Cardio vs Weight Training

by Catherine Wilbert, MFS, CFT, SPN
Master of Fitness Science, Certified Fitness Trainer
and Performance Nutrition Specialist

Summer is here, and if you haven’t yet made that commitment to a fitness program, the thought of shedding a few pounds to look good in those shorts or that bathing suit, may be just the encouragement you need.

So with time of the essence, (immediate gratification being a must, with a trip to the beach just around the corner) what type of program do we embark on. For most, the seemingly obvious solution would be to cut back on the meals and start doing cardio - and lots of it. And as much as this may sound unpleasant (at least to most of us), it’s bound to burn up that extra fat, leaving us lean and toned, ready to show of those abs, right? Wrong! The good news is that these myths about weight loss are just that - while you do need to cut calories and increase activity to loose weight, there is a better, healthier, and more efficient way to do it.

First of all, embarking on some crazy fad diet that severely restricts calories may initially produce results, but in the long run will actually slow down your metabolism. Eating more frequent meals throughout the day will actually boost your metabolism. The key is better food choices, balanced meals and portion control.

What about exercise - what kind and how much? While it may feel like running on the treadmill for an hour (while you are dripping with sweat) is burning tons of calories, it’s only burning calories while you are exercising and for one to two hours after. If you really want to lose fat - and keep it off -- the best way to do it is with weight training. Weight training is the single most effective way to permanently increase your metabolism. The more muscle you have, the more fat you burn all the time - 24hours a day, 7 days a week -- not just one or two hours when you’re exercising, but every hour of every day, whether you’re exercising, eating, sleeping or sitting at your desk. Pound for pound, muscle burns 25 times more calories than fat. One pound of muscle can burn 30 to 50 calories in a day, or 350 to 500 calories a week. One pound of fat only burns two a day or 14 in a week. So, if you build just five pounds of muscle, that’s equivalent to burning 26 pounds of fat in a year.

The evidence is right in front of you in the gym. Notice the number of overweight people who do hours of cardio on the treadmill, in aerobics classes, or on the bike - or worse, all of the above. The same people, on the same program for months, maybe even years, with no noticeable results. Then, compare them to the physiques in the weight room. Ask some of those people who look the most fit how much time they really spend in the gym - it’s much less than you think. The results produced by weight training are much more effective. And if you own research isn’t convincing enough to back up these claims, consider a Tufts University study that showed strength and resistance training can increase metabolism by seven percent, and promote significant changes in body composition. Scientists calculated the higher metabolic rate meant that resistance trained subjects burned an average of an extra 354 calories per day. The final result was that weight training produces an increase in lean body mass and a decrease in body fat by a permanent increase in metabolic rate.

What about the scale? Throw it out! Yes you may end up weighing the same or even more because muscle weighs more than fat, but remember, muscle takes up less space than fat. So, ultimately, you will be small, firmer, more tone, and your clothes will fit better. That’s the true test. How you look and how you feel - not what the numbers on the scale say. And women, no, you become overly muscular. It’s just not possible - women don’t naturally produce enough of the hormones it takes to grow massive muscle. Weight training will, however, give you that tone look you’re striving for - you can’t burn fat off to see muscle tone that doesn’t exist. In addition, weight training is important to help prevent osteoporosis by building and maintaining bone density.

Timing is everything. If your primary goal for cardio, in addition to cardio vascular health, is to burn fat, the most effective time to do it is when glycogen stores are low, therefore, early morning on an empty stomach would be an optimum time since glycogen stores have been depleted throughout the night while you slept.

If morning isn’t an option, and you’ll be doing cardio in the same workout session as weight training, it’s better to do cardiovascular activity immediately following weight training because glycogen levels have also been depleted at this time. Not only will your cardiovascular exercise be more effective at fat burning, but your weight training session will be more effective and intense since you won’t have burned up all your ATP on cardio.

The key to successful weight loss is balance - in both diet and exercise. Weight training will help increase lean body composition and boost your metabolism, even while at rest. While cardiovascular activity will help muscles utilize oxygen more efficiently and promote overall good cardiovascular health. Remember though, too much cardio can actually burn valuable muscle tissue and losing muscle slows down your metabolism -- which is obviously counter productive to your whole weight loss goal. And again, remember balance -- allow your body time to recover from all exercise. Muscle tissue needs recovery time to repair and grow. So, don’t be afraid to take a couple of days off with no exercise and you will actually see better results.
 
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I find it fucking hilarious that you even posted that on this site. ...you tried to make your point by avoiding the facts:

1. Cardio (running) breaks down muscle
2. Most runners...although appearing to be skinny have a large BF% because they do so much running it continuously breaks down muscle to feed the energy their bodies needs to run.

If you want to support cardio, fine...yes calories in + calories out = gain/loss. BUT for overall BF loss for a prolonged period of time, weight training is much better. Weight training is also better because most people will be able to do it throughout their entire lives, unlike cardio.

If you want to make the point that cardio works just say you use it with roids/supplements while weight training and don't lose muscle...that is about the only viable example.


__________________
I need your clothes, boots, and the keys to your motorcycle.


Last edited by cmtuggl on 03-Aug-2003 at 11:07 PM

Good posts throughout the thread, you make perfect sense. Also Nelson's post was telling it the way that it is. And one more point the guy who wrote this article is a D.C., I bet that still leaves him with a shit load more biology and biochem knowledge than the majority of this board. Someone mentioned to let a MD discuss cardio and not a DC, do you want that same MD to design your next anabolic cycle.:)
 
It's an opinion piece, backed up with no appearant scientific study, and we're suppose to take it that Catherine Wilbert is the authority on this?

I also dislike her writing style, can't stand it when people open an article with a statement like

' Summer is here, and if you haven’t yet made that commitment to a fitness program, the thought of shedding a few pounds to look good in those shorts or that bathing suit, may be just the encouragement you need.'
 
Hey lift....Sorry, but you're mis-informed. This is my last post on this topic. If performed CORRECTLY and at the right times, MUSCLE LOSS is not evident when adding a few cardio sessions per week on top of your daily training. Saying roids and supplements are a neccesssity is ignorant. Sure they help and surely people who do endless amounts of cardio will lose muscle, but intense 20-30 minutes 3-5 days a week will definately benefit all of us. ANyways............what else is up?
 
JKurz1 said:
This is an absolute ridiculous post. Plain and Simple. If I was a moderator, I'd woud have deleted it WAY before it could get out of control, which is obviously has done.

It hasn't been deleted by any MODS because it's an interesting topic bro; HENCE the 3+ pages.

Remember WHERE you are bro....Elite Fitness DISCUSSION Boards

:fro:
 
ulter said:
I agree the guy needs to stick to being a Chiropractor and leave Medical opinions about the cardiovascular system to someone with a real medical degree.



Yeah. Like someone else I know.



<did I just say that outloud?>
 
jboldman said:
"fucking hilarious" is how i would describe this too. No one is suggesting cardio v weighttraining, we are on a bbing board, i think there might be an implicit assumption that most if not all of us here are doing weight training. What we are talking about is doing moderate amounts of non-resistance exercise which we term cardio for weight loss and fitness.



I think a thread like this pops up every week or so. Jboldman is correct... too often these threads become a Cardio vs. Weight Training battle. I have incorporated 40 minutes of moderate cardio 6 days a week in the AM on an empty stomach and guess what? My strength is better now than when I started and my body fat has dropped 3%. Whether it be the treadmill, stairstepper, elliptical or full body light weight training with no rest... Cardio has helped me reach a lower body fat level than I could have achieved without it. I also feel better and have increased endurance.

To those that don't need cardio... God Bless you... Not everyone is an ectomorph or has naturally low bodyfat.
 
ONCE AGAIN, MUSCLE WASTING OCCURS WHEN

1) ONE PRACTICES IMPROPER OR INADEQUATE NUTRITION
2) PERFORMS CARDIO EXCESSIVELY
3) DOES NOT DO WEIGHT TRAINING IN CONJUNCTION WITH CARDIO
4) HAS TOO GREAT OF A CALORIE DEFICIT

Close this thread PLEASE....muscle loss is NOT AN ISSUE if cardio is done properly, period.
 
poantrex said:
ONCE AGAIN, MUSCLE WASTING OCCURS WHEN

1) ONE PRACTICES IMPROPER OR INADEQUATE NUTRITION
2) PERFORMS CARDIO EXCESSIVELY
3) DOES NOT DO WEIGHT TRAINING IN CONJUNCTION WITH CARDIO
4) HAS TOO GREAT OF A CALORIE DEFICIT

Close this thread PLEASE....muscle loss is NOT AN ISSUE if cardio is done properly, period.

AMEN
 
I'm convinced that this argumwnt can contine for another 10 years and some people will still miss the basic point.

Cardio and weight lifting are both exercise and any exerise will work!!! But weight training works better. That's it. Deal with it.

When someone says they added 40 minutes a day of cardio and got better results all they're really sayng is that their workouts were too short and they lengthened them with cardio. If they added 20 minutes of high rep weight training with no rest in-between sets they'd have gotten better results.

But I'm sure there will always be those who think that cardio works only if you do it along with weight training. Yeah. And Methoxy 7 only works if you do it along with dianabol.
 
Adding 20 sets to my weight workout interferes with my recuperation more than 20-30 minutes on the bike will. You can argue that for the next 10 years too.
 
Despite this opinion piece being written by a doctor of quackery (oops, I mean chiropractic), I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. His assertions on cardio, as applied to bodybuilding, have been well debated, and deflated, by knowledgable folks here.

However, this little nugget is especially laughable:

"I will purposely avoid aerobic activity for long periods of time (like 2 months) and actually increase my aerobic capacity in activities such as hiking, biking, and running."

So he's basically saying that the aerobic system isn't best trained by aerobic exercise? Um, hello. I guess he's a genetic freak of some sort, or he just doesn't know how to train properly. In fact, the aerobic system is highly trainable, with observable gains in vo2 max, lactate threshold and aerobic efficiency within a matter of a couple months.

Although the original article is, IMHO, assumption-riddled bunk, the subsequent discussion has been great. I do find it hard to understand why anyone would suggest that there is less longevity in aerobic exercise than in weight lifting. Running is but a subset of cardio. There are a ton of enjoyable, low-impact alternatives out there... :)

If you don't like it, don't do it. But there's no denying that, when done properly, it does wonders for many people.
 
Definately~Adding 20 sets to my weight workout interferes with my recuperation more than 20-30 minutes on the bike will. You can argue that for the next 10 years too
 
you guys "recoup" by riding a bike? ...shouldn't you recoup AFTER your done with your workout? ...don't you consider the biking part of your workout?

anyway, here is some of the info I was reading about how cardio is more susceptable to fat gain. ...I thought it was simply obvious because of the fact that cardio doesn't perminately raise your metabolism like lifting does....but oh well...for those who need something to read...it's a summary of an article from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Hopefully that institution is qualified enough to satisfy skeptics.
----------------------------------------
In a recent study, scientists looked at the question, "If you are in good aerobic condition, will you burn fat at a higher rate than people who are not aerobically fit?" The answer in this study was a surprising "No." Researchers gave 50 gm of fat for breakfast to trained and untrained individuals. They then measured energy use and fat oxidation postprandial. There was no difference. There was also no difference between the two groups at 6 hours and at 18 hours after the meal.
 
Cardio making one fat...I can't believe people are taking this seriously. Quite ridiculous, actually.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR GODDAMN HEADS - PEOPLE WHO LOST MUSCLE THROUGH CARDIO ARENT EATING AND TRAINING PROPERLY
 
Dial_tone said:
Adding 20 sets to my weight workout interferes with my recuperation more than 20-30 minutes on the bike will. You can argue that for the next 10 years too.

I said 20 more minutes, not 20 more sets.

20 extra minutes of weight training will interfere with your recuperation but 20 extra minutes of aerobics won't? That's ridiculous.
 
OK lets get something straight...NOONE every said "doing" cardio makes you fat.... However, it makes you more susceptable to fat gains than weight lifting and certainly makes people gain fat faster if they stop doing it and do not adjust their diet....which many people don't. That's why you hear of people "starting to run again" or "starting to do stairs again." It's because when they stop doing their cardio and don't adjust their diet, they gain all the weight back.

The whole reason people have been knocking cardio is weight lifting has EXACTLY the same positive effects (plus more) as doing cardio, but doesn't have it's negative effects...
 
i've heard the story that muscle burns 50 calories a pound, but what about all the EFers who have 60 lbs more muscle than the average person on the street? The guy who has a LBM of 210, he doesn't burn 6000-9000 calories a day.
 
cmtuggl said:
most "average" people also don't eat 6000-9000 calories a day.

i think the average caloric need of a man is about 3000 a day. a man who is 200 might have a LBM of 150 or so. Someone with a LBM of 210 (60 lbs more muscle, therefore 3000-6000 extra calories) probably doesn't eat 6000+ calories a day.

I don't know when the muscle caloric expendature levels off but i'm sure it does sooner or later. I've talked to Paulos on AIM and even though his LBM is about 200 (50 lbs more than an average male) he doesn't lose alot of weight at 2400 calories a day.
 
Nelson Montana said:


I said 20 more minutes, not 20 more sets.

20 extra minutes of weight training will interfere with your recuperation but 20 extra minutes of aerobics won't? That's ridiculous.

Actually, you said 20 minutes of weight training nonstop. If a set takes 45 seconds that ends up being about 20 sets (if not more) by the time you switch stations. If I do 20 minutes on the bike after a chest/delt/tricep workout it doesn't stress my chest, delts and triceps one iota. Let's take it one step further. If I do 20-30 minutes of low-moderate intensity 80-90rpm spinning on the bike after a leg workout it actually improves my recuperation by helping move lactic acid out of the leg muscles.
Take a look at the training routines of track cycling sprinters. These guys have upper bodies like a normal guy but lower bodies like a state champion level bodybuilder. They all do 30 minutes of spinning right after a squat workout. Nelson Vails (Olympic Silver Medalist) was about 5'9, 190'ish and squatted about 550lbs....not bad for a "scrawny cyclist". It certainly didn't hurt his recuperation much.
 
JKurz1 said:
This is an absolute ridiculous post. Plain and Simple. If I was a moderator, I'd woud have deleted it WAY before it could get out of control, which is obviously has done. Here it is. Cardio is benefitial for dropping excess bodyfat (and possible some hard earned musle if done incorrectly.) It's extremely mundane and takes pure dedication to do it often enough for it to be benefitial. If nothing else, it's also key for a healthly heart and lifestyle. NOW, we aren't talking running a triatholon or taking to the streets for 30+ miles. A mere 30 minutes on the treadmill or eliptical will do many fat bodybuilders justice. I, for one, use it only when I feel it's necessary to get down to 5-6%bf. Currenty, I'm about 8%. I train my ass off and will toss in a little cardio 3-4x a week for shits and giggles so I'm not sucking wind when I need to drop a few more % points and do it 5-6x a week. Just for clarification, my bench is around 350 and military around 225, so I'm not too much of a pud. I see too many fat ass bodybuilders who train (well, thats what they call it, they are in the gym) using 5x5 and talking on their cell between sets. They are the ones I hear say "CARDIO? F- CARDIO!)

Anywho, point is to each his own. Many of my comp. bodybuilders do little-no cardio up until about 4 weeks out. Some, do it all through bulking and cutting. We all metoblize fat and calories differently......so don't generalize shit by saying Cardio will make you fat.........toss it in a little bit and see if you don't FIANLLY see that thing called a six pack hiding under your chub......

I've got to agree with ya. Many bodybuilders don't do cardio but that is because they diets are close to perfect. They know exactly what to eat and how their body reacts. Now for the rest of us wannabe bodybuilders who don't have our diets down to an exact science, we do some extra cardio to lean out...
 
OMG, could you point out exactly where in this article it says that subjects in good aerobic condition are more likely to gain bodyfat? Whatever happened to critical thinking and the ability to understand what one reads!

Once again, no one here is advocating aerobics over weight training. Get it? NO ONE IS ADVOCATING AEROBICS OVER WEIGHT TRAINING! Try using that as a starting point and perhaps things will be less confusing to you.

jb




cmtuggl said:
you guys "recoup" by riding a bike? ...shouldn't you recoup AFTER your done with your workout? ...don't you consider the biking part of your workout?

anyway, here is some of the info I was reading about how cardio is more susceptable to fat gain. ...I thought it was simply obvious because of the fact that cardio doesn't perminately raise your metabolism like lifting does....but oh well...for those who need something to read...it's a summary of an article from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Hopefully that institution is qualified enough to satisfy skeptics.
----------------------------------------
In a recent study, scientists looked at the question, "If you are in good aerobic condition, will you burn fat at a higher rate than people who are not aerobically fit?" The answer in this study was a surprising "No." Researchers gave 50 gm of fat for breakfast to trained and untrained individuals. They then measured energy use and fat oxidation postprandial. There was no difference. There was also no difference between the two groups at 6 hours and at 18 hours after the meal.
 
I am not sure that you do not have a point here. My problem is the threat of overtraining since i am an older lifter. When you say add 20 min of high rep, which muscle groups do you do? Just pick some that have not been worked lately. In my case, i work out one bodypart a day, what would i add for the 20 minutes?

As has been oft pointedout, cardio is simply low intensity exercise and high rep training would qualify. Also, what if you do the 20 minutes at a different time than your normal workout?

jb





Nelson Montana said:


I said 20 more minutes, not 20 more sets.

20 extra minutes of weight training will interfere with your recuperation but 20 extra minutes of aerobics won't? That's ridiculous.
 
just got back from doing 30 minutes on the eliptical on an empty stomach! Boy, HOPE I didn't lose all my musculeeessss!!!!

I'm BLASTING Shoulders tonight too.....Maybe I'm fat now, but I'll be ripped after tonight!
 
This is just a case of rationalization and justification.
IE: I don't like to do cardio, I am going to find a reason why I shouldn't do it. Hmmm, let me think how I can justify, uhhhh:bright: OH, THERE IT IS! A chiropractor says it makes you fat! Now I don't have to do it! WOOHOO



Cardio and weight lifting are both exercise and any exerise will work!!! But weight training works better. That's it. Deal with it.

For a self-proclaimed "guru", You sound a lot like the ignorant guys in my gym who are in their 50's, still working out, strong as hell, with fat rolls holding their arms out and telling young girls why their physique is better than the lean and cut younger guys. They workout for 2 hours, then go eat pizza. This is my prediction of Nelson when he gets that age.
 
David Lewandowski

1425 E Orange Grove #14
Pasadena CA 91104
ph: 626-798-4332

Graduated from the
Los Angeles College of Chiropractic
 
pharmguy said:
This is just a case of rationalization and justification.
IE: I don't like to do cardio, I am going to find a reason why I shouldn't do it. Hmmm, let me think how I can justify, uhhhh:bright: OH, THERE IT IS! A chiropractor says it makes you fat! Now I don't have to do it! WOOHOO





For a self-proclaimed "guru", You sound a lot like the ignorant guys in my gym who are in their 50's, still working out, strong as hell, with fat rolls holding their arms out and telling young girls why their physique is better than the lean and cut younger guys. They workout for 2 hours, then go eat pizza. This is my prediction of Nelson when he gets that age.


Talk about displaying one's ignorance.

I'm 49 years old with 10% bodyfat. No aerobics. (But I do like pizza).
 
Nelson Montana said:
If they added 20 minutes of high rep weight training with no rest in-between sets they'd have gotten better results.

i don't see how you can say 'better,' because what you're suggesting is to force the weight training to mimic cardio to such a degree that cardio is obsolete. you can't have it both ways. but your main argument, however, at least as far as i can tell, is implying that the physiological adaptations resulting from cardio and weight training are not different. is that correct?
 
Last edited:
pharmguy said:
For a self-proclaimed "guru", You sound a lot like the ignorant guys in my gym who are in their 50's, still working out, strong as hell, with fat rolls holding their arms out and telling young girls why their physique is better than the lean and cut younger guys. They workout for 2 hours, then go eat pizza. This is my prediction of Nelson when he gets that age.


LOL! This is too funny, Nelson is about 50 and in great shape. Open mouth, insert foot.
 
the article summary I posted was just that, a summary...jboldman, why don't you go to the American Journal of Clincial Nutrition (ajcn.org) and read the entire results...the point is people who do cardio will process fat just as slow as a person who sits on their ass all day... and YES then entire argument of this thread was that weightlifting is better for you than cardio.
 
LOL! This is too funny, Nelson is about 50 and in great shape. Open mouth, insert foot.

I guess I thought Nelson was younger because of the way he argues with everybody and trashes his competition is so unprofessional and childlike. I guess I did put my foot in my mouth. I would have thought a man of 49 years old would respect his competitors (like swolecat) and not have to talk trash. For someone so confident in his workout/diet plans, the success should speak for itself. He sounds more like an immature 25 year old. My bad. Your all that Nelson.......
 
im still a firm believer that cardio is much better for conditioning purposes but it all has to do with what that purpose really is. When i was hardcore freestlye wrestling, if i didnt keep up the rigorous windsprints and prolonged running, i would notice that my endurance went down no matter how long i was spending in the gym. And now that i focus on lifting, my endurance is shit when i step on the mat. Just my 2 pennies
 
pharmguy said:


I guess I thought Nelson was younger because of the way he argues with everybody and trashes his competition is so unprofessional and childlike. I guess I did put my foot in my mouth. I would have thought a man of 49 years old would respect his competitors (like swolecat) and not have to talk trash. For someone so confident in his workout/diet plans, the success should speak for itself. He sounds more like an immature 25 year old. My bad. Your all that Nelson.......



Wrong again. I never trashed swolecat, nor is he comptition. I did, however, have a probem with someone spamming. I get a lot of shit for being self promotional but 99% of my posts have nothing to do with my books. Meanwhile, swolecat has offered nothing on this board other than what he sells. And what he sells I believe to be a waste of money. It may work, but lots of things work that don't cost the ridiculous price he charges. That's not trashing. It's consumer awareness.
 
Hey, some believe X while others Believe Y.......afterall, who really gives a flying fffffffffffffffffffff...................seriously. Is this dumb???? Quit wasting your time and let's discuss something else. If X works for you, DO IT! If Y works for you, DO IT. If you've never done cardio, TRY IT...if you've never trained ballz to the wall, DO IT! Then love it or hate it and move on.............Buffet anyone?
 
JKurz1...good final comments....karma for you...

Hopefully that will end the thread since about everything has been said that could possibly be said...
 
satchboogie said:
i wouldnt say that cardio will make you fat, but its certainly not a must if one's interest is slow and even fat loss without sacrifcing muscle tissue.

I think he was probably talking about average couch potato americans.

If you play a cardio intensive sport......I don't think you're going to be able to skip cardio....lol

Unless you like not playing at all. i.e. Riding the bench.

Fonz
 
Nelson Montana said:



Talk about displaying one's ignorance.

I'm 49 years old with 10% bodyfat. No aerobics. (But I do like pizza).

Than you must be in pretty awful cardiovascular shape.

I have always recommended cardio to EVERYBODY. Walking even...its is good for your cardiovascular system.

People tend to forget about conditioning.

Its one thing to be able to lift, but can you run up 10 flights of stairs without panting?

Somehow I doubt it....lol

Cardio is exceedingly good for your heart.

Fonz
 
People used to say Bill Kazmeier used an oxygen tank in between sets because his breathing was so labored.
 
Fonz said:


People tend to forget about conditioning.

Its one thing to be able to lift, but can you run up 10 flights of stairs without panting?

Somehow I doubt it....lol

Cardio is exceedingly good for your heart.

Fonz

Some degree of cardiovascular training is necessary for my overall health. I have gone long periods where I only lifted weights and I could get fairly lean without cardio... but I knew I was out of shape. It is nice to be able to play a few games of basketball for an hour or two and still have spring in your step. When I did no cardio... I lost my spring after 30-45 minutes. It is hard to explain, but I just feel better when I do cardio.
 
No, the subject of this thread is that cardio makes you fat. the summary is just fine, all it says is that after eating, cardio trained folks burn fat at the same rate as others! Period, nothing about them being more susceptible to gaining fat and nothing about the fat burned during cardio. i suggest YOU go back and read the article and then try drawing LOGICAL conclusions. Try rereading your posts inlight of the article presented, there is NOTHING there that has cardio making folks gain fat. You really should give this up, there are more important battles and points to be won other than trying to read something into an article that not only is not there but is counter to every single piece of real evidence and logic presented.

the point has already been made and accepted that weight training is an effective method off fat burning, that is not the subject nor the title of this discussion.

jb



cmtuggl said:
the article summary I posted was just that, a summary...jboldman, why don't you go to the American Journal of Clincial Nutrition (ajcn.org) and read the entire results...the point is people who do cardio will process fat just as slow as a person who sits on their ass all day... and YES then entire argument of this thread was that weightlifting is better for you than cardio.
 
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