whats your deadlift max?

[AAP]

Here's why I think deads are just a pissy waste of time:

First of all, they do thicken your waist. Muscle or not, it gets thicker.

Second of all, people do deads on the day they train back and after such a draining effort of hauling weight up off the floor for no reason, they don't have enough energy, focus or CNS reserves to really hit the back the way it is suppose to be hit.

Third, what part of the back does it hit? Lower back? You can do hyper extensions and reverse hypers to detail that area. And a detailed area will always look better and bigger than a thick area. Deads touch on other areas with the stress (whole body actually), but I am going to tell you that you are not going to get the same growth inducing size from deads that you will get from exercises that target your back more specifically and in better harmony than with your natural body biomechanics. Face it. When you are hauling something up off the floor, the primary movers are your quads anyway. As any Good Employee Safety Program says... lift with your legs.

You want rods of iron going up your mid back to your skull? Then work the traps with that intensity. Most people simply do barbell, dumbell or machine shrugs for traps. Hello? Have you seen an anatomy chart of trapezius location and composition? Those things run 3/4 of the way down your back. But most people don't realize this and train accordingly. Sitting on a row machine, you can hold the handle and try to pinch your shoulder blades together without bending your elbows and thicken the mid traps. You can hit lower traps by hanging from a chinning bar or on a lat machine and shrugging your shoulder blades down and backwards. The range of movement is about 2 inches and if you do it right, it will cramp hard on every rep.

Also, don't be fooled by so and so pro BBer saying they do them. I know for a fact that Lee Haney never did deadlifts, despite being photographed and filmed doing them. He just did that to follow a script someone else wrote. Hell, in Lee Haney's gym, deadlifts are forbidden. You do them, they show you the door.

You take all that energy and time you are wasting in doing deads and apply it to a more intelligent and thorough back and trap workout and you will see much better results.

Besides, the lower back area is composed more of tendons and connective tissue than actual muscle. I can assure you that when you reach 40 years old, you are NOT going to be happy with fucking around in that area with heavy weights 10 years prior.

 

[bignate73]

it actually means i need to do them regularly....like GM's. LOL. i actually don't deadlift too often, every 2 weeks or so. i usually do GM's, OLY high bar squats and PL squats as my lower body work.

 

[bignate73]

Here's why I think deads are just a pissy waste of time:

1.First of all, they do thicken your waist. Muscle or not, it gets thicker.

2.Second of all, people do deads on the day they train back and after such a draining effort of hauling weight up off the floor for no reason, they don't have enough energy, focus or CNS reserves to really hit the back the way it is suppose to be hit.

3.Third, what part of the back does it hit? Lower back? You can do hyper extensions and reverse hypers to detail that area. And a detailed area will always look better and bigger than a thick area. Deads touch on other areas with the stress (whole body actually), but I am going to tell you that you are not going to get the same growth inducing size from deads that you will get from exercises that target your back more specifically and in better harmony than with your natural body biomechanics. Face it. When you are hauling something up off the floor, the primary movers are your quads anyway. As any Good Employee Safety Program says... lift with your legs.

4.You want rods of iron going up your mid back to your skull? Then work the traps with that intensity. Most people simply do barbell, dumbell or machine shrugs for traps. Hello? Have you seen an anatomy chart of trapezius location and composition? Those things run 3/4 of the way down your back. But most people don't realize this and train accordingly. Sitting on a row machine, you can hold the handle and try to pinch your shoulder blades together without bending your elbows and thicken the mid traps. You can hit lower traps by hanging from a chinning bar or on a lat machine and shrugging your shoulder blades down and backwards. The range of movement is about 2 inches and if you do it right, it will cramp hard on every rep.

5.Also, don't be fooled by so and so pro BBer saying they do them. I know for a fact that Lee Haney never did deadlifts, despite being photographed and filmed doing them. He just did that to follow a script someone else wrote. Hell, in Lee Haney's gym, deadlifts are forbidden. You do them, they show you the door.

6.You take all that energy and time you are wasting in doing deads and apply it to a more intelligent and thorough back and trap workout and you will see much better results.

7.Besides, the lower back area is composed more of tendons and connective tissue than actual muscle. I can assure you that when you reach 40 years old, you are NOT going to be happy with fucking around in that area with heavy weights 10 years prior.

1. if its not muscle thickening your waist, its fat... and its not deadlifts doing that.

2. I agree, most people waste time doing it on "back" day, because its primarily a lower body exercise and should be rotated in as such. going back to that statement, then there should be plenty of time and energy if back work is done on upper body days.

3 & 4. what part of the back doesn't it hit? statically and concentrically. those thick cords you allude to are contracted under way more load than isolated shoulder blade pinches. not to mention the amount of glute, ham and erector work. all of this in one exercise vs. a low pulley, high pulley, hyper/rev. hyper machine, leg press, leg curl.

5. heaven forbid if the door fell off the hinges...no one there could pick it up.

6. more spices in a dish doesn't make it a better dish. it just takes alot longer to make.

the term "bang for your buck" comes to mind with compound movements that get bashed on bb sites. Its amazing how the simple things that work so well get over thought by breaking down every muscle involved to a ton of isolation movements thats are supposedly superior. i have yet to see someone doing tricep kickbacks who has better triceps than someone who can bench press a house. but tricep kickback man will have to also do cable flyes, front raises, and side raises to yield the same as a simple bench press. its like trying to reinvent the wheel. bb'ers have to microscrutinize the inner most cords of the teres minor in order to bring out such and such blah blah blah....ROW HEAVY!

as for a detailed smaller bodypart looking better than a thick bodypart. so lagging a muscle group so it looks "sharp" under lean conditions is the way to go? i always thought a larger muscle group under lean conditions would stand out more! its like looking for detail flying over iowa, or flying over new york. bigger building stick out more. its topographics.

 

[sonic_death_monkey]

ah I see what you mean now

yeah big benchers are usually crappy pullers, I think because they focused on bench for so long at the expense of other lifts.. deadlifters are more likely to be all round trainers. At least we have bigger buts even if the big benchers always look way more jacked than us pull-monkeys

Dude, You said "Pull-Monkey"..... awesome.

I'm totally a pull monkey.

On another note....maybe someone can answer this question: I developed a bit of a strength imbalance in my right leg. During squats I would favor my right leg and lean a bit. Eventually I injured my "left" leg in the upper vastus lateralis..near the hip. It only hurt when I would squat.

The injury didn't seem to hurt nearly as bad when I would Deadlift. Maybe from not having to go parallel.

Anyhoo....the injury is healed, but the strength imbalance isn't quite cleared up. However, I'm pulling 500+ .

Maybe I should've posted this on another board, but being as we're talking about deadlifts, I thought someone would have some insight.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

it actually means i need to do them regularly....like GM's. LOL. i actually don't deadlift too often, every 2 weeks or so. i usually do GM's, OLY high bar squats and PL squats as my lower body work.

thats perfectly fine..if youre doing GM's with your dead stance its less taxing on teh CNS to build your GM rather than pulling 1rm every week..its what WSB is built on although they are doing a lot more special pulls these days

 

[wnt2bBeast]

as far as doing dead to each their own..i do them for a completely different reason than a BB'er would

ill just say this AAP is not normal lol

 

[Madcow2]

I'm just not in the isolation boat or of the mind that someone can isolate individual muscles and arrive at the same or supperior net stimulus. That would make the combo of leg extension and leg curls equivalent to squatting, dumbell flies and front raises the equivalanet to benching, and now I guess some shrugs, cable rows, and hyper extensions the equivalent to deadlifting.

The best and most effective compound lifts all do one thing, heavily load the entire system and multiple muscle groups through a basic and fundemental range of motion (squat, dead, press, row, etc..). Regardless of the amount of isolation work done, the quality of the stimulus and it's ability to force adaptation is vastly lessened. Granted, if one takes enough drugs or if once is a novice one can see progress but one will still make better progress natural or at any equal dosage doing it right. The dead is not essential in and of itself but the isolation argument doesn't hold logically because it would have to be applicable to other lifts and it isn't. An all isolation workout nets a small weak trainee.

Personally though, pulling from the floor is a fundemental movement for the human body. It's a shame that most trainees only know how to deadlift and not clean/snatch because they don't have the option of performing effective but less taxing alternatives - not a big deal for a novice but if you are strong the dead can take a lot out if done on a consistent basis. You can work around not doing deads but the bottom line is that it is one hell of an effective exercise for developing the entire body. If I couldn't squat and pull, I wouldn't lift anymore.

 

[Sub-Zero]

I'm just not in the isolation boat or of the mind that someone can isolate individual muscles and arrive at the same or supperior net stimulus. That would make the combo of leg extension and leg curls equivalent to squatting, dumbell flies and front raises the equivalanet to benching, and now I guess some shrugs, cable rows, and hyper extensions the equivalent to deadlifting.

The best and most effective compound lifts all do one thing, heavily load the entire system and multiple muscle groups through a basic and fundemental range of motion (squat, dead, press, row, etc..). Regardless of the amount of isolation work done, the quality of the stimulus and it's ability to force adaptation is vastly lessened. Granted, if one takes enough drugs or if once is a novice one can see progress but one will still make better progress natural or at any equal dosage doing it right. The dead is not essential in and of itself but the isolation argument doesn't hold logically because it would have to be applicable to other lifts and it isn't. An all isolation workout nets a small weak trainee.

Personally though, pulling from the floor is a fundemental movement for the human body. It's a shame that most trainees only know how to deadlift and not clean/snatch because they don't have the option of performing effective but less taxing alternatives - not a big deal for a novice but if you are strong the dead can take a lot out if done on a consistent basis. You can work around not doing deads but the bottom line is that it is one hell of an effective exercise for developing the entire body. If I couldn't squat and pull, I wouldn't lift anymore.

this is completely off topic and probably should have its own thread, but what are ur stats and lifts and do u have pics

 

[wnt2bBeast]

this is completely off topic and probably should have its on thread, but what are ur stats and lifts and do u have pics

what will pics prove??

AAP has an amazing physique however there are very few if any that can copy him and achieve the same results...

deadlift if you want or dont dont do them..but do not skip them because AAP doesnt do them

 

[Scotsman]

this is completely off topic and probably should have its on thread, but what are ur stats and lifts and do u have pics

How is it off topic? This is another rebuttle to AAP's statement. Besides as a powerlifter all pics do is prove if you're big or not as most of us aren't lean enough to show off our muscular develpment. If you want to be a bodybuilder then no deads aren't 100% necessary but if you are a powerlifter than there isn't any alternative.

Cheers,
Scotsman