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Whats wrong with Nolva?

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patternsco

New member
Hi Guys,

Just started coming on here more often, reading up as may do a cycle in the future. Seems alot of people on here say nolva is no good for pct? then what is? i know unleashed/phytoserm347 etc are good and i thought additionally to standard pct.

Been on a few other forums and ive always seen nolva or clomid as the standard pct, with optional libido/test boosters thrown in. Someone able to help me understand this or point me in the right direction?
 
Everyone else is doing it because they don't know any better, For PCT 4 words "It's a shitty drug"
Nova does absolutely nothing in restarting your HPTA.
 
haha.. makes sense, times change etc i guess. Strange how most other forums still swear by them though. tbh id be more comfortable with a more natural pct than a breast cancer tab, and my friends all say clomid is nasty on them (emotions, crying, sickness, which scare the crap outta me!).

ok mate well i can see people on here recommend, forma, unleashed/phytoserm347 for pct, bridge for after pct and hcgenerate on. i cant get any of these as in uk and stock seems out everywhere in US, plus some have mentioned customs/shipping can be a problem. i can get hcgenerate and bridge.

so how do you research what IS needed in pct, rather than specific products? are there any alternatives or is it only those that people use? looking at the main ingredients of those, seems you can get most of them separately quite easily.

Looking at pct generally, im presuming once you come off, you want to keep eostrogen binding low to help kickstart test (i.e. Nolva/ a serm), and then aid that with a test type booster/LH . I take it AI's like 6bromo and ATD arent good as serms as you can get rebound and this just shuts down estrogen? im not in a mad rush and still researching at this stage but would be good to know exactly whats what.
 
yeh had a read of that already, will prob need to read again. It only mentioned the products above also though, so im taking it there are no alternatives?

It would be a 500mg pw test only cycle - 10-15 weeks.
 
it's a complete myth that nolva restores HPTA. It is an ant gyno drug and there are better ones. And it kills you dick. That's what's wrong with it.
 
It's highly toxic, carcinogenic, and not very effective. Nonsurgical treatment of male infertility: specific and empiric therapy

"Tamoxifen citrate is an antiestrogen that exhibits less estrogenic activity than clomiphene citrate and has been used in the treatment of male infertility. Doses range from 10 to 30 mg orally per day. Side effects are similar to those seen with clomiphene citrate but occur with lower frequency because of its weaker estrogenic properties. Although initial uncontrolled studies reported impressive results, including increased sperm densities and pregnancy rates (Vermeulen and Comhaire 1978; Bartsch and Scheiber 1981; Buvat et al 1983), all controlled studies using tamoxifen 10 to 20 mg per day reported negative results (Willis et al 1977; AinMelk et al 1987; Krause et al 1992)."

There are other threads with supporting studies on the toxicity of it.

The alternative is Clomid or Torem
 
patternsco said:
Thanks mate i get that, but doesnt really answer my Q above - what is an alternative?
Click to expand...

The biggest reason nolva is a problem is it decreases collagen synthesis

Now to answer your question the alternatives or shall I say better options to nolvadex are:

Clomid dosed 25mg/25mg/25mg/25mg
Or
Torem dosed 90mg/60mg/60mg/30mg
 
so definately oe of those 2, not an OTC pct? im a bit worried about clomid as everyone i know says dont take it, you feel super sh*t on it.

Never heard of torem, will check it now
 
I would just wait until Post Cycle/ Unleashed is back in stock if you are looking for a more natural PCT. Great products, as well as HCGenerate. Read up on the PCT sticky and you will learn all you need to know.
Most people add Clomid at 25/25/25/25 if you want to add a SERM into your PCT. This is the best alternative, definitely don't use Nolva with your PCT.
 
I don't know what to believe when you look at Arnold and other legendary bodybuilders that are still around to this day they used nolva and clomis and they did good and are good today , I don't doubt the NTBM products but I think it's more about promoting it and the reps getting there commission
 
People that feel bad with clomid also take very high amounts. Most of the BB are talking about didn't come off just as none do now. There have been a lot of people that post on here who have issues after running nolva/clomid only pct. If you add hcg can get by okay in my opinion. I run a more modern pct btw. First cycle ran nolva only at 20mg & felt fine the whole time but being young helps with that.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness
 
callmejay said:
It's highly toxic, carcinogenic, and not very effective. Nonsurgical treatment of male infertility: specific and empiric therapy

"Tamoxifen citrate is an antiestrogen that exhibits less estrogenic activity than clomiphene citrate and has been used in the treatment of male infertility. Doses range from 10 to 30 mg orally per day. Side effects are similar to those seen with clomiphene citrate but occur with lower frequency because of its weaker estrogenic properties. Although initial uncontrolled studies reported impressive results, including increased sperm densities and pregnancy rates (Vermeulen and Comhaire 1978; Bartsch and Scheiber 1981; Buvat et al 1983), all controlled studies using tamoxifen 10 to 20 mg per day reported negative results (Willis et al 1977; AinMelk et al 1987; Krause et al 1992)."

There are other threads with supporting studies on the toxicity of it.

The alternative is Clomid or Torem
Click to expand...


^^^^^^ Nice. But one thing this failed to mention is that nolva can cause blood clots in the lungs and/or legs. Combine that with the fact that AAS will increase the volume of blood in your body and some (EQ for example) will thickened your blood. Sounds like a recipe for disaster if you ask me. Blood clots will fucking kill your ass.

Aromasin, Arimidex, forma stanozol, much much much safer. No where near as dangerous. Not dangerous at all in fact. Plus they don't kill ALL estrogen. You WANT estrogen. Just not too much.
 
Johnny698 said:
I don't know what to believe when you look at Arnold and other legendary bodybuilders that are still around to this day they used nolva and clomis and they did good and are good today , I don't doubt the NTBM products but I think it's more about promoting it and the reps getting there commission
Click to expand...



That is absolutely incorrect.
 
patternsco said:
Isnt that why you dont use an AI like arimi and aroma in pct though?
Click to expand...

When you enter pct your estrogen and your test are high. You don't want the test to taper off and leave you with more estro than test. This is when guys get gyno. Which is why you want to run a very small dose of a.i. with pct. Or at least the beginning of pct.

Now if you have been running an a.i. during cycle then its my opinion that you can either drop it right at the beginning of pct or maybe a week into pct. But I would cut the dose or duration back even more.

The difference with aromasin and adex is that they don't block ALL estrogen like nolva does. Aromasin is the superior a.i. imo.
 
Johnny698 said:
I don't know what to believe when you look at Arnold and other legendary bodybuilders that are still around to this day they used nolva and clomis and they did good and are good today , I don't doubt the NTBM products but I think it's more about promoting it and the reps getting there commission
Click to expand...

please stop with the "arnold did this, arnold did that". i don't care what arnold did 40 years ago or whatever and neither does anyone else on here. you don't know what they did back then unless you followed them around 24/7 and went home and slept with him and went through his drawers. also i guarantee you those 'legendary' bodybuilders every single one of them went on HRT at a very young age because their HPTA took such a beating.. if thats the route you want to go then by all means run shitty PCT's because i promise you that you won't last long that way. most of the geniuses on the internet who recommend nolva/clomid pct's either don't even cycle off and also are the idiots who are on HRT at 30 years old because their pct's sucked so bad

also reps don't get commission from promoting products.. obviously you have never repped to understand how it works. lastly chemical need sells both clomid and nolva, whom i rep for as well as NTBM. so i could easily tell you run out and buy both for pct but 1. I know that is a shit pct. and 2. its not the way i PCT. so wt fuck would i recommend it?

they both have their uses, and I will recommend each for certain uses.. but i will never recommend them both for pct. clomid at a low dose with a bunch of natty supps i will recommend.. but never stacking both at high doses :)

please get your facts straight before posting in the future or you look like an idiot
 
Johnny698 said:
I don't know what to believe when you look at Arnold and other legendary bodybuilders that are still around to this day they used nolva and clomis and they did good and are good today , I don't doubt the NTBM products but I think it's more about promoting it and the reps getting there commission
Click to expand...

How bout this....I don't rep for anyone. I also don't give a shit what anyone thinks. N2BM sells some shit that works. I don't take, nor do I like everything they sell. But some of the new age supps are superior to old school shit drugs.

There's a lot of promotion here. I can totally see where it might seem like a conspiracy sometimes. Especially to new guys here. It N2 and his products are the real deal. Protein factory is another one that sells a lot of quality shit. There's a few others too.
 
Burnthiscorpse said:
When you enter pct your estrogen and your test are high. You don't want the test to taper off and leave you with more estro than test. This is when guys get gyno. Which is why you want to run a very small dose of a.i. with pct. Or at least the beginning of pct.

Now if you have been running an a.i. during cycle then its my opinion that you can either drop it right at the beginning of pct or maybe a week into pct. But I would cut the dose or duration back even more.

The difference with aromasin and adex is that they don't block ALL estrogen like nolva does. Aromasin is the superior a.i. imo.
Click to expand...

Nice reply mate, really appreciate that, and thanks to everyone for the replies. Have to say every single forum out there still recommends nolva etc for pct. Agree with what you guys are all saying about modern pct etc, makes sense, just need to re-learn everything again now.

so would recommend arimi/aroma over say clomid also? what if (as an e.g.) i dont need ai during as i have no sides, does that make a difference? A few mates run prop and never get sides (will definately always have it to hand though).
 
here is the proper pct...

[FONT=&quot]clomid 25/25/25/25 chemicalneed.com
Unleashed/post cycle combo
forma stanzol mrsupps.com
daa powerchews or powder

optional
ostarine 25 mg day uniquemicals.com[/FONT]
 
dylangemelli said:
here is the proper pct...

[FONT=&quot]clomid 25/25/25/25 chemicalneed.com
Unleashed/post cycle combo
forma stanzol mrsupps.com
daa powerchews or powder

optional
ostarine 25 mg day uniquemicals.com[/FONT]
Click to expand...

the only thing I would say is ADD to that.....hcgenerate throughout pct to continue the hcg benefits durning pct without suppression of hcg itself.
One or two pins of hmg if you can get it would help a ton also.
 
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