what's the point of bulking for gaining muscle?

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

i know that so much bodybuilder's bulk in the off season, but i don't understand whats the point to gain all that fat and water just to have to take it all off pre-contest? Is it because they don't want to look after their diet and pig out and make sure they are over maintence calories to keep their muscle mass and make it kinda of easier to lift heavier weights which doesn't really serve a purpose for building muscle because intesity of every rep is all that matters.

Also, i have been bulking the past 4 months. I gained 20 pounds, i went from 136 to 156. Only 3-4 pounds that i gained is muscle and the rest is fat and water. I was getting 250-350g of protein everyday sometimes even more and about 500 calories per day over maintence. I used to believe in one year its possible to gain 20-25 pounds of lean muscle without roids. Now im convinced that it is not. I mean i was gaining 2 pounds a month and with all that protein i really thought half of the 2 pounds i was gaining would be muscle but thats completely false. The average proffessional bodybuilder gains 8 pounds of muscle per year that means .15 pounds of muscle per week. I read somewhere that your body is capable of manufacturing .25 pounds of muscle per week that means 13 pounds of muscle per year. That much of muscle in one year sounds possible only with very high testosterone levels or steroids.

Let's just say as a novice, like me, with virgin receptors you can gain 10 pounds of muscle in 12 months. That means .19 pounds of muscle per week which is extremely good. If 1 pound of human muscle equals 600 calories then 10 pounds would be 6,000 calories. That means your body needs only 6,000 extra calories to build 10 pounds of muscle in one year. (not counting the fact that fat calories can be replaced for muscle not sure though). Divide 6,000 calories by 365 days that means your body only needs 16 calories above maintance per day to put on 10 pounds of muscle. And more calories doesn't mean more muscle which i discussed earlier. It means more fat and water.

So if my maintence calories are 1,800 per day without strenous activity then with weight training and mixed martial arts it is 2,200 calories. That means 2,300 calories per day should be enough for putting on 10 pounds of muscle in one year without putting on much bodyfat.

Ok so i figured out how much calories my body needs. Now i have to figure out what kind of calories. Muscle is only 22% protein. So 22% of 16 surplus calories is about 4 calories which is 1 gram of surplus protein per day. To stay out of catoblism, 1 gram per one pound of bodyweight is reccomended. So that would be 150g of protein. To stay on the safe side lets just make it 200. That's 800 calories. Then about 900 calories from carbs and 600 calories from fats sounds good. So 200g of protein, 225g of carbs, and 66g of fat. That's a 39-34-26 ratio of carbs to protein to fats.

My Every day extremely easy Diet Plan

Monday thru Friday. (saturday and sunday move every meal 3 hours forward)

meal 1 - 34-54-10 - 7:00am
2 whole eggs, 4 egg whites
1 cup of oatmeal

meal 2 - 45-60-8 10:00am
5 ounces chicken
half a yam and brown rice
or
Chicken panini - 40-40-14
5 ounce thinly sliced chicken
2 big whole grain slices
red roasted peppers
2 slices swiss cheese
or
tuna sandwich 40-40-5

meal 3 - 30-60 minutes prior workout 2:30pm
2 tbsp flax oil, 5g l-glutamine, 24g ON Natural chocolate whey protein, 20g dextrose
*optional BCCA's, liver tablets, b-complex, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C

meal 4 - immediately after-workout 4:00pm
5g l-glutamine, 24g ON Natural chocolate whey protein, 20g dextrose
*optional BCCA's, liver tablets, b-complex, calcium, magnesium, vitamin C

meal 5 - 740-70-70-20 4:45pm
Filamignon/tilapia/sushi/turkey burger/beef or buffalo burger

martial arts - 6:00pm-8:30pm tuesday-friday

* Optional meal 6 - low fat cottage cheese with low sugar jelly - 20-20-5


With this diet plan i gain an extra 700 calories per week. This means Im gaining just 1/4 of a pound of fat and hopefully 1/4 of a pound of muscle. So with water and glycogen gains that means i will be gaining .5-1 pounds of weight per week. I find this type of diet plan much better then the one were i had 300-500 surplus calories per day which made me gain 2 pounds a week which even though was a very clean diet with up to 350g of protein it still doesn't matter because all it is, is fat. Does anybody understand my concern with bulking and it being pointless for bodybuilding, just gaining muscle? I see bulking can help powerlifters and linebackers but not bodybuilders. Why gain all this fat and then spend hours and hours of cardio burning it and losing muscle along the way?

 

[Deleted member 33117]

There is no benefit to pig out on junk to bulk if you are natural. Just eat clean and go 500-1K cals over maintenance if that.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

but, 500 calories over maintance is bulking. That's 3,500 of calories per week. Which is 1 pound of fat. Why gain 1 pound of fat not to mention water gains from so much carbs for to get all these calories. So why gain 1-2 pounds of fat/water weight per week just to have to lose it all later on when cutting. Thats why im keeping at just 100 calories over maintence.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

I have untill June 21st to workout consistently then im off to Russia for vacation for 3 months where i won't really have much access to the gym . So i want to set some goals. I have 24 weeks left that means i can build 4-6 pounds of muscle total from .15-.25 pounds per week. So starting at my current weight of 156 pounds and with 4-6 more pounds of muscle, 6 pounds more of fat i will be 166-168 pounds at 14%bf assuming water retention is at its peak, gaining a total of 7-9 pounds of muscle since september 1st 2006. So long term goal in 3 and 1/2 years (im 17) at age 21 is to get to 166 6%bf. Then by 23 be at 180 6%bf. I think i want to stop gaining muscle at 180. 180 might even be my natural limit and potential at a 5ft 8 ectomorph frame.

 

[javaguru]

Well, to gain muscle you have to consume more Calories than you expend. Gaining a little fat is inevitable but there is no need to go from 10% BF to 15%-18% and then cut down. Go up two or three percentages in fat and then cut back down and bulk up again. That's what I did, I stayed between 9%-12% BF year round, depending on if I was bulking or getting ready for Summer. These days I can't gain appreciable muscle unless I wanted to start juicing so I don't "bulk" anymore.

 

[mm107]

Well i have been bulking for the last month, all clean, no fat.

i also "bulked up" in the summer, while everyone told me bulking puts on fat. You need to start manipulting the times u eat and food combinations.

Eat clean bulking which is hard and u will not get fat

 

[jpt]

heavier weights which doesn't really serve a purpose for building muscle because intesity of every rep is all that matters.

?????

 

[mm107]

?????

yeah i read that too, let it slide.

 

[jpt]

yeah i read that too, let it slide.

yeah...must have been a typo lol

 

[mm107]

yeah...must have been a typo lol

LOL it must have been a typo yep lol

i disagreed with his post alot, but since he was so determined against it, i didnt feel like typing.

now if he sounded like he wanted another answer i would have gave him mine, but im on the sauce right now, so im answer might not seem 'creditable'

 

[SgtSlaughter]

136lbs to 156lbs is easy.



When I was a newbie I went from 147 to 180 (lean) in a couple years without eating much at all or having this website/knowing anything about proper foods then.



Go from 200 to 220 and tell me how easy it is




That's the point of bulking amigo. Not being 160lbs.

 

[Deleted member 33117]

LOL it must have been a typo yep lol

i disagreed with his post alot, but since he was so determined against it, i didnt feel like typing.

now if he sounded like he wanted another answer i would have gave him mine, but im on the sauce right now, so im answer might not seem 'creditable'

What he said.

 

[poysyn]

Well i have been bulking for the last month, all clean, no fat.

i also "bulked up" in the summer, while everyone told me bulking puts on fat. You need to start manipulting the times u eat and food combinations.

Eat clean bulking which is hard and u will not get fat

lol to each his own..i gain some fat no matter what I eat, when I eat, or how I eat it..

granted i fair a hell of a lot better on the clean bulk compared to a dirtier one

 

[mm107]

lol to each his own..i gain some fat no matter what I eat, when I eat, or how I eat it..

granted i fair a hell of a lot better on the clean bulk compared to a dirtier one

But eating clean consists of

Tuna/Eggs/Peanutbutter/Steak and Only carbs are from whole wheat in the morning. Drop carbs mid day to keep those pounds off too....

if i have carbs after 7pm, i hold a ton of water and it starts developing into fat gain if eat late too much.

Before you go to bed, try having some REAL food. Like Tuna in a can + almonds/peanuts.

That always wakes me up 'dry' and CLEAN.

i feel tuna is my heart when bulking OR cutting. i feel tuna can ONLY put on lean mass...

but to each his own, u are probably very carb sensitive and not blocking carbs in your meals.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

mml07, you said you clean bulk and don't gain fat. What do you mean by a clean bulk. How much calories did you go over maintance? And how much weight have you gained and in what period of time? Are your trying to say clean bulking will make you gain more muscle then if you wear just slightly over maintence in calories?

 

[jpt]

mml07, you said you clean bulk and don't gain fat. What do you mean by a clean bulk. How much calories did you go over maintance? And how much weight have you gained and in what period of time? Are your trying to say clean bulking will make you gain more muscle then if you wear just slightly over maintence in calories?

see below

But eating clean consists of

Tuna/Eggs/Peanutbutter/Steak and Only carbs are from whole wheat in the morning. Drop carbs mid day to keep those pounds off too....

eat like your cutting....but just more of it. for example if you usually have 6oz chicken with 1 cup of brown rice...eat 8 oz of chicken and 2 cups of brown rice. it's difficult to clean bulk b/c the cals don't come easy....a trick is to use extra virgin oilive oil when you cook to get extra cals

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

Here is my new diet plan

Click attached files

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

sgtslaughter, you saying you gained 33 pound of lean weight without eating much at all and not much knowlege in just two years. Unless you are like 6ft you must be highly genetically gifted or highly chemically assisted to do that.

 

[ZGzaZ]

sgtslaughter, you saying you gained 33 pound of lean weight without eating much at all and not much knowlege in just two years. Unless you are like 6ft you must be highly genetically gifted or highly chemically assisted to do that.

Why? It's very easy to go from 145lbs to 180lbs naturally, all you really need to do is eat. It doesn't take much effort until you get over 200, like he mentioned.

 

[al420]

and make it kinda of easier to lift heavier weights which doesn't really serve a purpose for building muscle because intesity of every rep is all that matters.?

I just pissed in my panties

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

yeah if you are at least 5ft 11. But im 5ft 7 and i started at 125

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

Originally Posted by YoungIntricateMuscle
and make it kinda of easier to lift heavier weights which doesn't really serve a purpose for building muscle because intesity of every rep is all that matters.?



I just pissed in my panties

that was a typo. I meant the intensity of the rep is more important for building muscle then the weight itself where you start using a lot of secondary muscles.

 

[mm107]

sgtslaughter, you saying you gained 33 pound of lean weight without eating much at all and not much knowlege in just two years. Unless you are like 6ft you must be highly genetically gifted or highly chemically assisted to do that.

If Sgt said he gained 33lbs of lean mass he did, go back he has had several logs in here that shows his diet/effort that he has been doing...

Going from 200 to 230 is a battke. Not 150-190.

I persoanlly was 240lbs. Dropped my weight to 150lbs in 7-8 months. W/O anabolics.

Then went from 150-180 in 3-4 months after.

I eat CLEAN Bulk, meaning i do not have pizza, chips, etc to get extra calories. when i need extra calories i throw in my healthy fat which is 9calories per gram, meanwhile protein is 4 cals.

EATING like a PIG will make u gain weight.

I also, am NOT genetically gifted. On the weekends when i cheat, i hold the fat easily. I am carb sensitivie and hold fat VERY easy when carbs are in play. So i DO work my ass off the eat clean every day i can. Weekends are mine to get dirty lol

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

i got to give a lot of credit to you for eating clean. It's really hard. It's easy for me to stay away from pizza, juice, chinese food, cheesesteaks, fries, and chicken fingers and instead eat lean tuna, turkey, roast beef, steak, chicken and tilapia. But to hold off from pastries is really hard for me. I usaully feel like i am going to completely fall apart if i don't eat that cheese danish; and after i eat it i feel 10 times better and i can't wait to eat a second one. Another problem i have is hunger in the morning as soon as i wake up. I wake up really late anyway and barely have time to get dressed then go to school. I can't wake up early no matter what. If i do then i can't workout or do school work.

I've been really trying to get on a clean light bulk for the past week but couldn't, mostly because of a lot of homework and extracirrucular activities and poor time management. Consistency is really hard. Sometimes im not convinced enough to stay consistent, like it wouldn't matter if i dieted or not especially because im 17. Im currently not doing the 5x5. I did it for 4-5 weeks and didn't really realize any good results and didn't get any good pump from it. Also i hated the fact it didn't have pull-ups which i feel put a lot of stress on my body especially feel it in my biceps which need a lot of work. The barbell row just doesn't feel the same as a pull-up.

Right now my workout is anywhere like 3-5 times a week. I workout what i feel needs to be worked out that day, but i make sure i do deadlifts, squats, bench, and military press no matter what.

My Previous workout (this tuesday) Goal - Pure muscle growth

Squats
First Set - 125 x 10 slow, deep, tight reps
135 x 5 slow, tight reps
145 x 5 slow, tight reps

Bench - 125 x 10 slow, deep, really tight reps (squezing chest 3 seconds at contraction)
135 x 5 slow, tight reps

145 x 3 slow, tight reps

Incline Flies - 2 sets x 10 - squezing at top

Pull-ups - 3 sets x 6

Decline tight half sit-ups - 2 sets x 10
Knee raises on pull-up bar - 2 sets x 10 (held at contraction for 5 tight seconds)

 

[wrknonit]

LMAO at 16cals/day over maintenance = huge muscle gains... I couldn't read the rest of it

 

[al420]

THe workout needs a lot of work - all your desciptives sound like they come from Flex Magazine or some other fag rag. WTF is a "really tight rep"....or for that matter all that "tight" nonsense you speak of. Man you have a lot to elarn, but that is good b/c your young and you will be smarter than all of us by the time you hit 30...Actually now I am jealous of the info you are about to get as if I got it at 17 I think I would be the WSM.

If you are 17 STOP training right away. Buy a book called Starting Strength and don't lift again until you are done. Then read the training stickys (the stickys are worthless IMO w/out spot on form, meaning squatting as deep as the lord allows, etc, etc). Then do the 3x5. Then the 5x5. There is not ONE person on this forum that dosen't wish they had the 5x5 or something like it when they were 17.

Again, your diet sounds like it is straight out of a Muscle&Fitness mag...lol. Eat everything you can, ESPECIALLY cheese danishes - pastries are where PR's come from. NO ONE can grow eating broccoli and chicken. And you are hungry in the AM b/c you are STARVED. You can't have it both ways bro - if you want the muscle you have to eat for it. If you eat like a bird you will look like one.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

you didn't understand what i said............i was doing the 5x5 and pyramid training the past 4 months and no not from magazines which is all bullshit. I didn't get any really noticable muscle growth or definition. but now im experimenting with doing reps and sets based on mind over muscle connection and trying to do the the exersice the puts maximum stress and maximum pump at the time, without overtraining my body. You might look at my workout and say that's not enough, but for how my body felt that day that was just my limit. I don't want cortisol rushing through my body.

I mean i was doing the 5x5, but the way i did my reps with bigger weights and as much as i thought i had good form i didn't. It wasn't untill my strength went up through the 5x5 and pyramid training that i realized im still doing the same weight and reps but with even better form with slower and more controlled reps. With 5x5 i felt like i was training more tendons then anything else. Now with controlling the weight on the way down slowly i feel much more muscle stimulation. The 5x5 is a really great workout, but im always tempted to go up in weight which ruins my form because all those sets and so much of them per week makes you feel like you should be going up in weight quickly.

I don't have a problem with bulking and gaining weight. I do have a problem with clean bulking though. So ok just a little over maintance calories is all that is required for building muscle. I believe that 100 calories over maintance will build just as much musle as 500-1000 calories over maintance which is just addition of fat. More calories doesn't mean more muscle if you are not juiced. Not even more protein calories. Why eat danishes and junk food just to raise insulin levels at wrong times to gain fat? I want to look like a bodybuilder not be fat. To have a 6 pac you have to eat clean calories, well at least for my genetics.

If i can light clean bulk for the next 6 months straight i would look amazing, well anybody would. Light clean bulking saves you months of cutting from being to fat from a bulk and losing muscle. Its really hard to be able to clean bulk even if saturdays and sundays you can cheat.

 

[Jayhawk21]

I am a rather extreme ectomorph, and I fell in the the trap of trying to eat clean bla bla bla. Now I just eat whatever I see. I've successfully gained 13 pounds without giving a shit what I eat. My bf has not gone up noticeably at all, pants still the same size. I don't know why people eat like girls if they don't have to. I don't drink pop and try to stay away from sugar, but I don't understand why people are so anal when they are bulking. Just eat whatever you can in sight, and then cut later if you want to.

 

[gettnlarge01]

Its easier to add muscle when there is a surplus of good nutrients in your body[good excess calorieseveryday? Being consitent with your diet and training makes it easier to adjust so you can make progress.

 

[JKurz1]

How much cardio are you all doing during bulking? And staying lean?

 

[SgtSlaughter]

sgtslaughter, you saying you gained 33 pound of lean weight without eating much at all and not much knowlege in just two years. Unless you are like 6ft you must be highly genetically gifted or highly chemically assisted to do that.

I don't remember exactly, it was back in highschool (i'm 23 yrs old now and 230lbs).... i was 5'10 then.

But yeah... I trained like an animal (horrible training but it was intense) and did NOT eat nearly enough food looking back on it. I remember i used to skip dinner and have a protein shake cuz I thought it was "healthier."

We live and learn.

I'm saying earlier on, newbie gains can be very abundant because your body is being blasted with quality (i hope) training that it's never experienced before. And years of training after it becomes much harder to gain weight, and then pretty much just comes down to eating for serious growth.

 

[JKurz1]

Find your BMR and your maintence cals. Increase them by 250 kcals to start and monitor weight gain weekly.

Adjust from there.

Include cardio 2x a week, lift heavy for 5 and eat clean.....100% clean.

 

[jpt]

AGREED...you can lift heavy all you want... it's the cals that's going to get you bigger!!! so make sure that's in check first

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

weight gain is fat and water if its over 10 pounds a year though......why an extra 250 calories a week. That's like 1/3 pound of fat added per week. Why have to cut. I don't get it. I guess though if you eat clean which is really hard then 250 calories over maintance is pretty good and no carbs after 6pm

 

[Jayhawk21]

weight gain is fat and water if its over 10 pounds a year though......why an extra 250 calories a week. That's like 1/3 pound of fat added per week. Why have to cut. I don't get it. I guess though if you eat clean which is really hard then 250 calories over maintance is pretty good and no carbs after 6pm

How do you back this up? You can't just say that "weight gain is fat and water if it's over 10 pounds in a year though". In my first year of lifting I gained 30 pounds alone, let me assure you 20 pounds of it wasn't fat..

 

[gettnlarge01]

weight gain is fat and water if its over 10 pounds a year though......why an extra 250 calories a week. That's like 1/3 pound of fat added per week. Why have to cut. I don't get it. I guess though if you eat clean which is really hard then 250 calories over maintance is pretty good and no carbs after 6pm

Do you have a ref to a study to prove this or are you just saying it because you can't add muscle?

 

[JKurz1]

Here's the difference. When you are lean like me (sub 7%) eating one thing other than your "broc/chicken" makes your abs and cuts fade faster than shit. Going from 10% to 6% is so friggn hard as is going from 6% to 10% because you hate seeing everything fade away. HOWEVER, there is no real diference once you are higher than 12$ and lower than 20%.....that's where most of these guys stand so they can eat their ass off and think there was no fat gain because the mirror doesnt look any different!

my .02ml

PS ...it's def just as hard for some to go from 160 to 200 as it is from 200-230....I think it's 100x as hard. Hel, if I was 10% or higher, I'd have no problem eating my ass off only to get bigger......but being shredded and losing everything and then not getting stronger in the gym is hard to swallow....

 

[harbinator]

You posted this thread with a question, you got answers, you obviously don't like them. Eat how you want and you can be jkurz 2.0, 175lb the rest of your life and wondering why you can't get big, make sure to focus on "tight" reps instead of weight progression.

 

[JKurz1]

You posted this thread with a question, you got answers, you obviously don't like them. Eat how you want and you can be jkurz 2.0, 160lb the rest of your life and wondering why you can't get big, make sure to focus on "tight" reps instead of weight progression.

and be diced as hell...........we;ll see bro....we'll see what happens by summertime.

 

[mm107]

I KNOW i will be sliced and diced for the summer....In order for you to grow, you need to be in a calorie surplus, its very simple.

OR

Eat Meals at specific times for specific reasons like i do with a slight surplus, but spread it out throughout the day. Specifically breakfast. If you have a 1500 calorie breakfast and a 500 calorie snack(peanutbutter & Tuna) in the morning, you will be already at 2000cals.

Alot of people who say that eating in a surplus will cause them to gain fat. Ok, to each his own, but i bet the group of people saying this are VERY CARB/INSULIN Sensitive. I am also carb sensitive, as i can see my 6pac by friday, and i loose it over the weekend from the carbs. That is just how body acts. So how do i combat this? SIMPLE I EAT LOW GI CARBS which cause LESS of an insulin spike. AND i only consume these LOW GI carbs early in the day. Its very simple Dieting, its consitancy.

I am in no way an ectomorph, in fact i would be consider a endo/meso mix. Simply because my body DOES put on muscle fast, but also will put on fat JUST as fast. Trust me. I know my body, I went from 240lbs -> 150lbs ->205lbs now. And during that 150 ->205 phase, i did put on some noticable fat. BUT it is 2x as easy to burn off that fat considering my new muscle mass now burns even MORE calories at resting point.

So Jkurz, i understand what you are saying also, i was once 150 with a complete set of 8pac. BUT i was still only 150lbs. If eating ANYTHING besides your Chicken/Brocholi gets you fat. Why not start DOUBLING up your chicken servings? I would rather the chicken get proceeses and turned into glucose (since the chances of you over flooding yourself with glucose/glycogen with protein sources are slim because the insuline spike is less, but possible) Carbs will be broken down into glycogen/glucose, but the insilin spike associated with them causes FAT GAIN. So avoid carbs at all costs since it seems you are carb sensitive. And go with LEAN Meats bro. AND ALOT OF them. And DECENT AMOUNT OF EFA's. and you will grow.

 

[JKurz1]

So avoid carbs at all costs

 

[crossy]

You posted this thread with a question, you got answers, you obviously don't like them. Eat how you want and you can be jkurz 2.0, 175lb the rest of your life and wondering why you can't get big, make sure to focus on "tight" reps instead of weight progression.

I was just about to put the same thing. People ask for advice and then think they already know better. There is so many people on this thread alone that can offer loads of decent advice so my advice would be shut up and listen up and let the bros who have been there and done it tell you how its done.

 

[mm107]

So avoid carbs at all costs

basically, whcih sucks i know. But we are carb sensitive people, genetics are genetics.

why not run an ECA stack during bulking?

 

[al420]

Why are we giving this punk 3 pages of help???

 

[Kabeetz]

Why are we giving this punk 3 pages of help???

Because apparently we've all been training our tendons and not our muscles this whole time!

 

[crossy]

Because apparently we've all been training our tendons and not our muscles this whole time!

lol

 

[mm107]

lol i thinks its because the original poster didnt try to argue with us.....i think....i didnt read alot of the thread lol

 

[JKurz1]

Orignial POSTER?? WHo the hell cares...it's still ineresting to see how everyone does it.....I just can't stand limiting carbs on the two off days I do have...I'm topping out around 300 easily right now....next month will be prob. 1 1/2 times that if not more.....THEN, I'll slice up and be show ready...........project 2008, 2009.

I know, I've said it before, with with the Guru I have in my back pocket who is feeding me all the knowledge *training, diet, AAS* I need to be on stage, I'll be there......I have a six pack now (thats fading) but when I come back, it'll be 8.....marke it down.

 

[mm107]

Orignial POSTER?? WHo the hell cares...it's still ineresting to see how everyone does it.....I just can't stand limiting carbs on the two off days I do have...I'm topping out around 300 easily right now....next month will be prob. 1 1/2 times that if not more.....THEN, I'll slice up and be show ready...........project 2008, 2009.

I know, I've said it before, with with the Guru I have in my back pocket who is feeding me all the knowledge *training, diet, AAS* I need to be on stage, I'll be there......I have a six pack now (thats fading) but when I come back, it'll be 8.....marke it down.

iF YOU CANT stand limiting carbs then its going to be hard for you bro....

run a ECA stack while bulking it will keep you shredded. Im gonna be ordering mine real soon.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

ok.....i never said i know better.....im just telling you what i learned with my body with bulking the past 4 months. I know that if i bulk just another 4 months in the same fashion i will end up being pretty fat.

Here is a reference - The Colgan Institute of Nutritional Sciences (located in San Diego, CA) run by Dr Michael Colgan PHD, a leading sport nutritionist explains that in his extensive experience, the most muscle gain he or any of his colleagues have recorded over a year was 18 1/4 lbs. Dr Colgan goes on to state that "because of the limiting rate of turnover in the muscle cells it is impossible to grow more than an ounce of new muscle each day."

In non-complicated, mathematical terms, this would equate to roughly 23 pounds in a year! Keep in mind that high-level athletes are the subjects of these studies

So if the best recorded was 18.4 lbs of muscle in one year with high level athlethes that equates to .35 lbs of muscle per week. So for an ectomorph or a person with bad genitics say it's 75% of what a genetically gifted person gains then that's like .26 pounds of muscle per week. To make .26 pounds of muscle you need only 20 calories over maintance everyday mathematically. When i say maintance i include the 200 calories burned in the gym and if doing other activities like mma thats another 200 calories extra. So really 420 cal over rested maintance.

I just don't like the fact that its so advertised to get 300g of protein a day and 500-1000 calories over maintance a day and drinking all these protein shakes and wasting your money like it will really help you that much.

As for "tight reps" and working "tendons" this is something im experimenting with and i realized my form could be a lot better for squats when i was doing the 5x5 and getting cocky with weights and trying to squat 195 for 5 reps with really bad form when i can only squat 155 with perfect form and making the right pauses and controlling the weight.

 

[JKurz1]

iF YOU CANT stand limiting carbs then its going to be hard for you bro....

run a ECA stack while bulking it will keep you shredded. Im gonna be ordering mine real soon.

hard for me???? bulking is a great time for carbs and caloric suprlus!

 

[al420]

You are too young for this stuff bro - take your calculator and shove it up your asshole.

 

[mm107]

Ok, i just stoped helping...

what the hell do u want us to say? your right? FINE YOUR RIGHT! Go eat 20calories over your maintenance... and we will see how big u get...

ur forgeting that honestly, we were trying to help, you took our advice and tried to proove it wrong with a "study", so now u can take ur study and stick it up your ass because now im pissed i waisted 7 minutes of my life before typing and bolding my post.

if you werent going to listen, why ask the damn question?

Go away and stay with the abercrombie models weighing it at 160. MY GF would brake a 160lb man and she is only 116lbs. Come back and play with the big boys in 10 years when that 20 calories over maintence really BLOWS you up.

P.S. (You read studies on nutrition, while i go to school for it, just so you know)

end of rant

 

[jpt]

You are too young for this stuff bro - take your calculator and shove it up your asshole.

LOL!!!!!!

 

[mm107]

hard for me???? bulking is a great time for carbs and caloric suprlus!

lol i meant if its hard to resist carbs, then run an eca stack......

bulking is supposed to be easy, clean bulking sucks =]

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

i didn't use a calculator unfortunately......stop with the roid rage and let it out in the gym

 

[mm107]

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

mml07 thank you for writing all that............but ok yes i don't agree with 20 calories over maintance but i do agree with 250-500 calories over maintance with clean bulking which is really hard. So if its the choice of doing a little over maintance and maybe not get so clean calories all the time or going a lot over maintance with not so clean calories, i think the first choice is better.

 

[jpt]

time for this thread to just die....lol

 

[mm107]

mml07 thank you for writing all that............but ok yes i don't agree with 20 calories over maintance but i do agree with 250-500 calories over maintance with clean bulking which is really hard. So if its the choice to doing a little over maintance and not maybe not get so clean calories all the time or going a lot of maintance with not so clean calories i think the first choice is better.

Ok, im back to earth...sorry about the rant bro, but it does piss people off to offer advice and have it spit back at them...

i usually only go 500 calories over maintence so i cant disagree with you on that....like i said.....it comes down to cals in vs cals out,.but meal timing plays a huge role in everything.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

Alright i will keep bulking like i used to...................im going to have a nice 1 pac and big sexy chuby bi's with layered lats and big puffy legs, but that all helped me gain tons of muscle underneath right?

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

mml07............yes...........you understand...............thats where i am at right now.........trying to get on a 100% clean bulk of 250-500 calories over a day and no carbs after 6pm but cheat on the weekends.....its really hard but as soon as i get accustomed to it im sure that i won't be gaining a lot of fat.....just gaining muscle slowly.....because muscle gaining is a sloww steady process not a quick fix with tons of calories.........and yess.....timing is amazingly important.......because eating a lot more calories earlier in the day will be metabolized much quicker then during the evening and when your body is just resting when asleep.

 

[JKurz1]

MM - Missing the boat witrh me I think......why would I or we want to limit carbs now during bulking? Makes little sense to me....I guess I never knew anyone truly carb sensative, but it's more about overall cals than anything else......brown rice, oats, pasta....all staples!

 

[mm107]

MM - Missing the boat witrh me I think......why would I or we want to limit carbs now during bulking? Makes little sense to me....I guess I never knew anyone truly carb sensative, but it's more about overall cals than anything else......brown rice, oats, pasta....all staples!

yea, its fine letme try to explain...

I EAT a decent amount of carbs. If its early enough...... (after 5pm is too late for me to consume hugge amounts of carbs, i have learned i am very carb sensitive and night/carbs dont mix.)

But i know alot of people will say "where does your energy come from"...Simple...before i go workout, i have a can of tuna & handfull of peanuts.....

The FAT will help with my energy levels....and protein will always be building mass......

FAT, is i believe dont quote me on this, your bodies BEST energy source. Now Carbs are the bodies EASIEST energy source.....(IF IM WRONG HERE SOMEONE PLEASE SET UP)...

Fat = 9 calories per gram
Carbs = 4 cals
protein = 4 cals

So if you do have a decent amount of FAT ready to go (being digested) your body, or my body atleast, has had decents amoutns of energy...

I HAVE had OATMEAL preworkout.
i HAVE had potato preworkout...

and honestly the peanuts i feel the same amount of a "boost"....

Jkurz, i know its calories in vs cals out right? BUT INSULIN PLAYS A HUGE ROLE IN HOW FOOD IS STORED....

Lets say....

you have
whole wheat + tuna

now the bread will spike insulin, but not too much because it is whole wheat and there is also a protein source too so the insuline spike is not TOO much

now lets say I have...
Tuna + Peanuts....

now, there is virtually NO Insuline Spike....Meaning My body wont have to adjust my insulin levels and all that nonsense, and will go straight to digesting food which burns calories....

Yes your choice would burn calories as well while digesting, but your body main goal at that moment would be to "regulate" your insuline levels...and in turn some of that carbs which got turned into glucose might be stored as unwanted fat.....

i hope this kinda helps ya...

but remember this is from expierience...and some technical knowlege...but mostly how my body acts...

If i have pizza i blow up, my face gets rounder, etc...just from one slize...because im so damn sensitive

 

[al420]

i didn't use a calculator unfortunately......stop with the roid rage and let it out in the gym

I would like to take it out on your 17yr old virgin asshole you tiny little fuck.

You are a punk that can't take advice - the worst kind.

 

[JKurz1]

mm I agree with most of your post. we think alike but are completely different the way we handle food. sure right now the carbs are blurring my cuts but that's what hsppens. pros do it. they get softer build mass and then strip it. my plan and yours too. so for now eat however u are most comfortable but don't be afraid to get soft its WINTER! Still will never be over 12 %

 

[crossy]

Well the thread was worth reading just for mm107 and Jkurz1 conversation. Great info

but point in putting anything else for YoungIntricateMuscle as obviously hes not listening to what you guys have to say. I dont get it, ask advice, you are given good advice yet you come back with a answer as to why the person who has given you advice is wrong.

 

[JKurz1]

cossy mm and al...you guys are my boys. always good conversation. even though we disagree on certain views wr always agrree to disagree and in the end we are all bros. al wants to be the strongest. mm the biggest and me....well.....i just want to be on stage within 2 years. that's my ultimate goal. I willhave to bust through some serious serious walls to get there and will moore than likely need to deal with gettn soft and chubby.....but hell.....thats nothing low carb and a few bottles of tren can't take care of eh? crossy u cuttin?

mm what is your macro ratio? I'm working on perfection. 250 to 500 cals over my bmr on training days....bmr on off days with lower carbs afyer 1pm....and a 40 40 20 split during these last two weeks of pct.....then come feb its all out.....big big gear plans provided I'm up 10lbs by then....

 

[crossy]

Im bulking at the min, i am not liking it to much though bodywise, i try and stay clean as possible (my downside is not moving to lower GI carbs as i still eat white pasta a few times a week) its not a big deal though really i added around 13lbs in around 7 weeks but have been ill so not trained for a week. I added some fat but again i was expecting it cutting again in about 2-3 weeks. This is my first bulk so its been a learning curve next time i will get it right

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

al420......im not a virgin.....just gots mine tonight........tiny little fuck in your pance......and i can take advice......you can't learn just being told something you have to figure out yourself and think about it a little

 

[sardonicone]

Why? It's very easy to go from 145lbs to 180lbs naturally, all you really need to do is eat. It doesn't take much effort until you get over 200, like he mentioned.

I'd argue that point to the death.

IT took me two years of diet manipulation and heavy lifting to go from 110 to 147.

Keep in mind everones basal metabolic rate is different. Also keep in mind everyone has a genetic marker for their homeostatic weight level.

It can be exceedingly hard to break that barrier.

As is, I'm now back down to 130-135, and I already know the fight I'm in for when I start training again (in a few weeks)

That being said, I will gladly be taking all the advice I can from here.

 

[nicee]

sgtslaughter, you saying you gained 33 pound of lean weight without eating much at all and not much knowlege in just two years. Unless you are like 6ft you must be highly genetically gifted or highly chemically assisted to do that.

I went from 150 at 6ft 1" to 198 in 4 yrs on a regular healthy diet (its called hard work) I just cant stay over the 200 mark

 

[gettnlarge01]

Alright i will keep bulking like i used to...................im going to have a nice 1 pac and big sexy chuby bi's with layered lats and big puffy legs, but that all helped me gain tons of muscle underneath right?

If you did everything right it will

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

niccee that's why you are 6ft 1 and have a larger surface area for growing muscle. Im 5ft 7. 198 is not that amazing for a 6ft 1 guy. Congratz though, it was probably hardwork. I know from being an ectomorph.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

If you did everything right it will

I hope i don't become fat for nothing

 

[gettnlarge01]

I'm 5ft8 and weighed about 130lbs when I started training so think again.I'm only 210lbs now so I must have done something right.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

puberty or something better

 

[JKurz1]

however skinny fat sucks........

 

[nicee]

however skinny fat sucks........

nothn worse than the infamous skinny fat guy eeeeewwwwwww!

 

[JKurz1]

so don't get there....ur skinny now....train hard eat harder and rest like a fat lap dog

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

crossy.....thats not cool

 

[nicee]

so don't get there....ur skinny now....train hard eat harder and rest like a fat lap dog

Whatutalknbout willis!

 

[mm107]

Jkurz, great post man...

right now im at 40% protein 35% Fat 25 % Carbs.

Its hard pinpointing the exact macros for the day, but i do try to get as close as possible.

Yeah, i know what you mean, im probably aT 12-13% BF right now, i guess thats why im advocating the low carbs.......When i was at 8% getting larger, i used to eat those hungry man TV dinners (1000+ Cals) to get needed ratios in. (they had a rotisire chicken with about 52g protein in one)

Great post tho, i see where you are coming from, im with that totally, ESP if you dont plan on going over 12%

 

[JKurz1]

which part?

DO YOU CHANGE MACROS FOR OFF DAYS?

PM cardio?

Jkurz, great post man...

right now im at 40% protein 35% Fat 25 % Carbs.

Its hard pinpointing the exact macros for the day, but i do try to get as close as possible.

Yeah, i know what you mean, im probably aT 12-13% BF right now, i guess thats why im advocating the low carbs.......When i was at 8% getting larger, i used to eat those hungry man TV dinners (1000+ Cals) to get needed ratios in. (they had a rotisire chicken with about 52g protein in one)

Great post tho, i see where you are coming from, im with that totally, ESP if you dont plan on going over 12%

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

al420, chill bro........no harsh feelings.......you started beef

 

[crossy]

Dude its annoying when you ask for help and you get it and really you dont listen or if you do you seem to know better or have a answer as to why the info you have been given is wrong or you answer with just plain sarcasm. It comes across as disrepectfull to the people who have taken the time to type all this stuff on here trying to help you. This is why you are getting peoples backs up.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

isn't the point of a forum to argue views and methods; of course if it makes sense? i was trying to get the final truth to what bulking really is when you are a natural and really what happens with all the extra calories that you get in. Im new to bodybuilding but not new to research and scientific facts. If you proved your point to me then i will shutup and say thank you. But the point is still to be fouund. Each person to his own.

 

[gettnlarge01]

You need to research more!! What works for one person will not always work for somebody else.If you have really done some real world research and not just reading things from a book you would have an idea already on what you need to do. Don't get me wrong we all started off needing help but asking for help when you need it and then argueing about how the advice given will not work is preatty damn retarded!!!! Maybe instead of all us experienced lifters having to prove something to you maybe you can explain why the advice given to you is wrong.

 

[crossy]

I dont know what point you want people to make. Getting bigger requires more cals, they will contribute to building muscle and also putting on some fat. You bulk till you are at your goal weight and then change your diet to a cutting diet to strip away the excess fat you put during the bulk. If you want to keep fat increase to a minimum make sure you diet is in check.

Find the calorie intake you need by getting a rough idea (there is a bulking calc in one of the top stickies) run with that, if you dont see a increase add 100-200 more cals for the next couple of weeks until you see a increase on the scales. Run this will a 5 X 5 routine from the weight training section of the forum and see yourself grow and get stronger. Why make this more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

"Find the calorie intake you need by getting a rough idea (there is a bulking calc in one of the top stickies) run with that, if you dont see a increase add 100-200 more cals for the next couple of weeks until you see a increase on the scales. Run this will a 5 X 5 routine from the weight training section of the forum and see yourself grow and get stronger. Why make this more complicated than it needs to be."

word. good advice. Except one thing, well for at least my body, "Eat clean, time your meals, and limit carbs before bad to minimize fat gains." Because i still believe that calories in vs out is not completely true because there must be a difference on receptiveness of fat gain between a 600 calorie cheesesteak and a 600 calorie meal of chicken and yams or brown rice. Also, Right now im at 12-13% bf (started at 10%BF) but still look very small. So cutting for me is kind of stupid.

 

[mm107]

"Find the calorie intake you need by getting a rough idea (there is a bulking calc in one of the top stickies) run with that, if you dont see a increase add 100-200 more cals for the next couple of weeks until you see a increase on the scales. Run this will a 5 X 5 routine from the weight training section of the forum and see yourself grow and get stronger. Why make this more complicated than it needs to be."

word. good advice. Except one thing, well for at least my body, "Eat clean, time your meals, and limit carbs before bad to minimize fat gains." Because i still believe that calories in vs out is not completely true because there must be a difference on receptiveness of fat gain between a 600 calorie cheesesteak and a 600 calorie meal of chicken and yams or brown rice. Also, Right now im at 12-13% bf (started at 10%BF) but still look very small. So cutting for me is kind of stupid.

did u not read my insulin sensitive post towards jkurz?

yes a cheestake will cause insulin spike causing ur body to hold more fat from the meal....

600 calorie meal wont spike insulin as much, meaning more lean mass growth with little fat gain...

its simple bro...

but seriously do whatever you want to do and we will keep doing what we do, so get back to us in 6 months.

 

[crossy]

"Find the calorie intake you need by getting a rough idea (there is a bulking calc in one of the top stickies) run with that, if you dont see a increase add 100-200 more cals for the next couple of weeks until you see a increase on the scales. Run this will a 5 X 5 routine from the weight training section of the forum and see yourself grow and get stronger. Why make this more complicated than it needs to be."

word. good advice. Except one thing, well for at least my body, "Eat clean, time your meals, and limit carbs before bad to minimize fat gains." Because i still believe that calories in vs out is not completely true because there must be a difference on receptiveness of fat gain between a 600 calorie cheesesteak and a 600 calorie meal of chicken and yams or brown rice. Also, Right now im at 12-13% bf (started at 10%BF) but still look very small. So cutting for me is kind of stupid.

Sorry it was wrong of me to presume you have common sense. Of course eating a cheesecake over a proper meal is going to increase fat no-one said it wouldnt. I cant even be arsed to go on anymore you are totally missing the valid points that people are making.

 

[SgtSlaughter]

but still look very small.

You answered the title question to your own thread ^^^

to NOT look small.


Real world experience and figuring out what works for YOU and only YOU is the way to be... even if it means getting a little fat in the process to know that you don't have to eat THAT much to grow... you're that much wiser than some of your peers at your age and continue to find out what your body likes best.

 

[YoungIntricateMuscle]

Ok topdoggs, fair enough.

 

[JKurz1]

this should be ez vause you r young eat eat eat I wqs a solid 240 at your age and solid..plus I oy thouht low fat was ll that .matterd......eat