What should be their punishment?

[lartinos]

What sort of punishment should two college students face if they secretly taped and transmitted footage of two male students having sex, a few days before one of those on the tape committed suicide?
PISCATAWAY, N.J. — The death of a Rutgers University freshman stirred outrage and remorse on campus from classmates who wished they could have stopped the teen from jumping off a bridge last week after a recording of him having a sexual encounter with a man was broadcast online.

"Had he been in bed with a woman, this would not have happened," said Lauren Felton, 21, of Warren. "He wouldn't have been outed via an online broadcast and his privacy would have been respected and he might still have his life."

Gay rights groups say Tyler Clementi's suicide makes him a national example of a problem they are increasingly working to combat: young people who kill themselves after being tormented over their sexuality.

A lawyer for Clementi's family confirmed Wednesday that he had jumped off the George Washington Bridge last week. Police recovered a man's body Wednesday afternoon in the Hudson River just north of the bridge, and authorities were trying to determine if it was Clementi's.

The lawyer has not responded to requests for comment on whether Clementi was open about his sexual orientation.

Clementi's roommate, Dhraun Ravi, and fellow Rutgers freshman Molly Wei, both 18, have been charged with invading Clementi's privacy. Middlesex County prosecutors say the pair used a webcam to surreptitiously transmit a live image of Clementi having sex on Sept. 19 and that Ravi tried to webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi's suicide.

A lawyer for Ravi, of Plainsboro, did not immediately return a message seeking comment. It was unclear whether Wei, of Princeton, had retained a lawyer.

Collecting or viewing sexual images without consent is a fourth-degree crime. Transmitting them is a third-degree crime with a maximum prison term of five years.

ABC News and The Star-Ledger of Newark reported that Clementi left on his Facebook page on Sept. 22 a note that read: "Jumping off the gw bridge sorry." On Wednesday, his Facebook page was accessible only to friends.

Even if the young violinist from Ridgewood was not well known at his new school, his death stirred outrage.

"The notion that video of Tyler doing what he was doing can be considered a spectacle is just heinous," said Jordan Gochman, 19, of Jackson, who didn't know Clementi. "It's intolerant, it's upsetting, it makes it seem that being gay is something that is wrong and can be considered laughable."

Other students who did know Clement were upset that they didn't do more to help him. "I wish I could have been more of an ally," said Georges Richa, a freshman from New Brunswick.

About 100 people gathered Wednesday night for a vigil on campus. They lay on the ground and chanted slogans like, "We're here, we're queer, we're not going home."

Several gay rights groups linked Clementi's death to the troubling phenomenon of young people committing suicide after being harassed over their sexuality.

On Tuesday, a 13-year-old California boy died nine days after classmates found him hanging from a tree. Authorities say other teens had taunted the boy, Seth Walsh of Tehachapi, for being gay.

Steven Goldstein, chairman of Garden State Equality, said in a statement that his group considers Clementi's death a hate crime.

"We are heartbroken over the tragic loss of a young man who, by all accounts, was brilliant, talented and kind," Goldstein said. "And we are sickened that anyone in our society, such as the students allegedly responsible for making the surreptitious video, might consider destroying others' lives as a sport."

Last week, Dan Savage, a columnist at the Seattle weekly newspaper The Stranger, launched the latest of several efforts to try to stem the problem: the It Gets Better Project, a YouTube channel where gay, lesbian and bisexual adults share the turmoil they experienced when they were younger — and that their lives are better now.

In response to Clementi's death and other incidents, the group Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians and Gays said it would issue a "call to action" on the subject on Thursday.

Rutgers University President Richard McCormick wrote in a letter to the campus, "If the charges are true, these actions gravely violate the university's standards of decency and humanity." Coincidentally, the university on Wednesday was launching a new two-year Project Civility, designed to get students thinking about how they treat others.

Meanwhile, for some of Clementi's new classmates, the first time they learned much about him was when they got word of his death.

"I guess the only person I haven't talked to is Tyler 'cause he's like really quiet and shy," said Justin Lee, a freshman from Princeton who lives on Clementi's hall.

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[calveless wonder]

it's hard to say.

what these kids did was fucked up...and just creepy and weird. But it'd be hard to punish them for any aspect of the murder or suicide. It was ultimately the kid who decided to end his own life. He could have handled it many other ways.

but still, they deserve to be punished to the full extent for illegal video taping and what not. Also punitive damages because essentially it was tort

 

[samoth]

Invasion of privacy and/or IIED. Depends on NJ law.

There exist updates regarding the first filming being accidental -- there's some doubt as to the connection between the streaming video and suicide.

Not enough information at this time.

 

[cindylou]

I was waiting on someone to post this thread. I hope they get some real jail time. WTF were they THINKING doing that? The first thing that crossed though my mind when I read this story was that their parents failed them. They have no morals whatsoever.

They need to be made an example, this stuff shouldnt happen.

 

[Rachel...lol]

I don't think there are many precedents set for situations like this - as awful as it was what they did, they can't be held at fault for him taking his own life. There are so many other things involved - all the moments in his life up until that point that contributed to his desperation that made him feel as if he were unable to live a happy life.

You have to separate the two things - how would they be punished in a situation if they had done this, and he were still alive?

 

[samoth]

I was waiting on someone to post this thread. I hope they get some real jail time. WTF were they THINKING doing that? The first thing that crossed though my mind when I read this story was that their parents failed them. They have no morals whatsoever.

They need to be made an example, this stuff shouldnt happen.

It was a college prank in the age of social networking and interwebs. The fag was obviously already extremely unstable. Worst case scenario was transferring, not blowing his brains out.

The female was already released.

 

[Rachel...lol]

I don't think there are many precedents set for situations like this - as awful as it was what they did, they can't be held at fault for him taking his own life. There are so many other things involved - all the moments in his life up until that point that contributed to his desperation that made him feel as if he were unable to live a happy life.

You have to separate the two things - how would they be punished in a situation if they had done this, and he were still alive?

 

[samoth]

You have to separate the two things - how would they be punished in a situation if they had done this, and he were still alive?

Likewise, people have to stop differentiating this from a hetero situation, which would get little to no news coverage.

This ain't 1950. People need to quit making "gay" a huge deal and get on with their lives.

 

[redsamurai]

The fag was obviously already extremely unstable. :

c'mon dude, really? You're better than this.



Anyway....for doing it the second time it'll be a crime against our society if those two little fuckers don't get the book thrown at em. It's 5 years max according to the article and they should serve every single one of those approx 2+ million minutes. I mean didn't they webcast it or something? There's something sick there. I mean if I were king these kids would probably be marched off to the cutting block next week so an example is to be made. All these neat new modern technology is cool and everything....but know your role. Know where the line is. At the very least both of em should be deported even though they are likely U.S citizens.....make some example of them,a line has to be drawn on this shit.

 

[Rachel...lol]

c'mon dude, really? You're better than this.



Anyway....for doing it the second time it'll be a crime against our society if those two little fuckers don't get the book thrown at em. It's 5 years max according to the article and they should serve every single one of those approx 2+ million minutes. I mean didn't they webcast it or something? There's something sick there. I mean if I were king these kids would probably be marched off to the cutting block next week so an example is to be made. All these neat new modern technology is cool and everything....but know your role. Know where the line is. At the very least both of em should be deported even though they are likely U.S citizens.....make some example of them,a line has to be drawn on this shit.

the fact of the matter is - these kids did not kill him, they cannot be punished for that. They can be punished for video taping somebody and displaying it - that's it. you have to take emotions and biases out of it

 

[cuthroat]

While this is tragic beyond prosecuting the two individuals for the obvious invasion of privacy, they can in no way be held liable for his actions proceeding the video stream. It is not a hate crime and anyone who argues so whether heterosexual or homosexual should consider what they would do in the given situation (I doubt that a first choice is the closest bridge).

The deceased's actions seem to be a gross over reaction to the given situation; while I can agree that it may have been very embarrassing for the individual one would think that there would have to be a number of underlying issues maybe his parents did not know of his sexual orientation, depression, (simply speculation).

 

[redsamurai]

the fact of the matter is - these kids did not kill him, they cannot be punished for that. They can be punished for video taping somebody and displaying it - that's it. you have to take emotions and biases out of it

that's why I was saying the full 5 years for invasion of privacy....I know they can't get tagged for the suicide. I wish the kid would have just killed them instead of him. I would totally be on board with that and honestly he probably wouldn't have done all that much time given that he could "legit" claim temp insanity when he saw that his sexual encounter got webcast. I would brain someone if they taped me like that....

 

[samoth]

c'mon dude, really? You're better than this.

Oh, jeez, the selective PC police. Is a gay dude not a fag anymore? I'll send AAP the memo.

Sick? What, are "consentual homosexual couples" (still offensive?) up there with pedophiles now? Nobody's claiming sickness when pranks like this are done with "consentual heterosexual couples" (is straight considered PC?).

Man, this is why I try to stay out of media bonfires. I just don't get the overreactions. Deport them? Are you really that disconnected from 20-year-olds and today's society? EDIT: oh, nm. killing them would definitely be tcr.

 

[cindylou]

Likewise, people have to stop differentiating this from a hetero situation, which would get little to no news coverage.

This ain't 1950. People need to quit making "gay" a huge deal and get on with their lives.

They broke the law and it contributed to his death, imo they should serve the max for invasion of privacy.

 

[cindylou]

c'mon dude, really? You're better than this.



Anyway....for doing it the second time it'll be a crime against our society if those two little fuckers don't get the book thrown at em. It's 5 years max according to the article and they should serve every single one of those approx 2+ million minutes. I mean didn't they webcast it or something? There's something sick there. I mean if I were king these kids would probably be marched off to the cutting block next week so an example is to be made. All these neat new modern technology is cool and everything....but know your role. Know where the line is. At the very least both of em should be deported even though they are likely U.S citizens.....make some example of them,a line has to be drawn on this shit.

yes yes yes

 

[Rachel...lol]

yes yes yes

no - you cannot directly relate suicide with their actions. Emotional trauma takes years to scar

 

[cindylou]

Oh, jeez, the selective PC police. Is a gay dude not a fag anymore? I'll send AAP the memo.

Sick? What, are "consentual homosexual couples" (still offensive?) up there with pedophiles now? Nobody's claiming sickness when pranks like this are done with "consentual heterosexual couples" (is straight considered PC?).

Man, this is why I try to stay out of media bonfires. I just don't get the overreactions. Deport them? Are you really that disconnected from 20-year-olds and today's society? EDIT: oh, nm. killing them would definitely be tcr.

I'm not disconnected, I know EXACTLY how they are. I think its SICK. I had the same thing happen to me, only of course I'm not a closeted homosexual and it wasnt streaming live on the internet. It was HORRIBLE. I never felt comfortable anywhere around anyone for a long time - I cant imagine how it would be to have that many people see something so personal, private and intimate, add on top of that a closeted gay man... I dont feel too sorry for those two kids.

Only a sexual deviant would do that, straight or gay.

 

[Lancer55]

While this is tragic beyond prosecuting the two individuals for the obvious invasion of privacy, they can in no way be held liable for his actions proceeding the video stream. It is not a hate crime and anyone who argues so whether heterosexual or homosexual should consider what they would do in the given situation (I doubt that a first choice is the closest bridge).

The deceased's actions seem to be a gross over reaction to the given situation; while I can agree that it may have been very embarrassing for the individual one would think that there would have to be a number of underlying issues maybe his parents did not know of his sexual orientation, depression, (simply speculation).

I agree 100% word for word on this.

 

[cindylou]

no - you cannot directly relate suicide with their actions. Emotional trauma takes years to scar

I think they should serve the max for invasion of privacy.

 

[samoth]

They broke the law and it contributed to his death, imo they should serve the max for invasion of privacy.

My frosh year at UState: Your kid hits (assults, to make it an illegal act) me in front of my hot girlfriend and all of my football buddies. Mortified, I kill myself. Your kid contributed to my death, and thus should pay for it.

Your kid's fault, no? What if, instead, I toiled inside for a year, then killed myself. Still your kid's fault, no? What if that event destroyed me mentally and emotionally for 4 years of college, caused me to flunk out, after which I got drunk and drove over a bridge. Still your kid's fault?

Tell me, at what point is it not your kid's fault? What does "fault" mean here? Murder? Unintentional homicide? Assistance to homicide? Who draws the line that cannot be argued beyond a resonable doubt?

There are multiple sides. What the guy/girl did had moral and legal implications, but we can't make every legal case out to some butterfly effect thing where we're all guilty of causing someone somewhere to die.

This is a simple IIED case, and the courts won't give a damn what his sexual preference was.

 

[cindylou]

My frosh year at UState: Your kid hits (assults, to make it an illegal act) me in front of my hot girlfriend and all of my football buddies. Mortified, I kill myself. Your kid contributed to my death, and thus should pay for it.

Your kid's fault, no? What if, instead, I toiled inside for a year, then killed myself. Still your kid's fault, no? What if that event destroyed me mentally and emotionally for 4 years of college, caused me to flunk out, after which I got drunk and drove over a bridge. Still your kid's fault?

Tell me, at what point is it not your kid's fault? What does "fault" mean here? Murder? Unintentional homicide? Assistance to homicide? Who draws the line that cannot be argued beyond a resonable doubt?

There are multiple sides. What the guy/girl did had moral and legal implications, but we can't make every legal case out to some butterfly effect thing where we're all guilty of causing someone somewhere to die.

This is a simple IIED case, and the courts won't give a damn what his sexual preference was.

Fine. I see your point. Not quite apples to apples but I get it.

 

[samoth]

Fine. I see your point. Not quite apples to apples but I get it.

I could be wrong, and they were pushing and tormenting him for years... or he could have already been a depressed suicidal kid. I'm sure more will turn up later, but at this point, it's all conjecture.

I can just see it going any which way on a non-discrete spectum; taking either extreme with limited information seems futile (albeit fun to argue )

 

[RottenWillow]

My frosh year at UState: Your kid hits (assults, to make it an illegal act) me in front of my hot girlfriend and all of my football buddies. Mortified, I kill myself. Your kid contributed to my death, and thus should pay for it.

Your kid's fault, no? What if, instead, I toiled inside for a year, then killed myself. Still your kid's fault, no? What if that event destroyed me mentally and emotionally for 4 years of college, caused me to flunk out, after which I got drunk and drove over a bridge. Still your kid's fault?

Tell me, at what point is it not your kid's fault? What does "fault" mean here? Murder? Unintentional homicide? Assistance to homicide? Who draws the line that cannot be argued beyond a resonable doubt?

There are multiple sides. What the guy/girl did had moral and legal implications, but we can't make every legal case out to some butterfly effect thing where we're all guilty of causing someone somewhere to die.

This is a simple IIED case, and the courts won't give a damn what his sexual preference was.

should we add this to your lexicon of inscrutable acronyms or did you supply an explanation somewhere?

 

[miplank]

I'm not disconnected, I know EXACTLY how they are. I think its SICK. I had the same thing happen to me, only of course I'm not a closeted homosexual and it wasnt streaming live on the internet. It was HORRIBLE. I never felt comfortable anywhere around anyone for a long time - I cant imagine how it would be to have that many people see something so personal, private and intimate, add on top of that a closeted gay man... I dont feel too sorry for those two kids.

Only a sexual deviant would do that, straight or gay.

wait just a second...



are you telling me there is a cindylou sex tape floating around?!?!?!

 

[iggy]

the kids that taped it are fucking scum. the kid had some issues, but honestly, he should of sued the fuck out of the guy and girl....

 

[samoth]

should we add this to your lexicon of inscrutable acronyms or did you supply an explanation somewhere?

Don't even pin that one on me. That's probably the most universal and well-known legal acronym in the world.

 

[samoth]

he should of sued the fuck out of the guy and girl....

Seems tcr, but since 18-year-old college freshmen wouldn't have any assets and would be accumulating debt for the next four years...

 

[SpyWizard]

I'd suggest that it is a sex crime... the actions that the deceased did based on it are irrelevant..

If someone said something that wasn't nice about you .. true or not, are they liable for you killing yourself??

 

[-SD-]

Charge with defamation and invasion of privacy or something

 

[grubd]

I would say that it was disgusting the reason he kicked him out of the room. But they should be punished with community service and probation.

 

[bakemeacookie]

It all comes down to %. Was he 10%, 30%, 50% responsible for pushign him over the edge? Would he have killed himself that night if this hadn't happeened?

That and videotaping someone, broadcasting it TO THE WORLD and being a minor gay producer (makes u wonder aobut his own sexuality). That alone is a few years right there. Imagine someone videotaping britney and broadcasting it to the world - 50 years/ min?

Look at how much time that buy who videotaped espn's andrews got. At least he didn't live stream it to the world.

btw: ther are MUCH bigger issues here. If nothing barely happens - internet, wireless webcams, etc. are everywhere nowadays. It would send a message for roommates everywhere to setup webcams to capture their friends, gfs, etc. having sex and stream it live. Including targeting gays & lesbians. What about someone sticking a webcam in women's locker room or bathroom? What about someone doing it cuz they hate their roommate? (more than enough of that everwhere!). What about future suicides from the embarassment? (imagine a female who's in the closet, with a fiancee webstreamed having lesbian sex?) What about pissed off bf's sending that captured video to her workplace?

Much bigger issues here - and hence why seriuos penalites must be given to this clearly well-orchestrated, planned-out episode of invading someone's privacy, creating gay porn of them and ridiculuing them to all of their friends and the world.

What if the person wasn't gay but an attractive female, on the honor role, daughter of a prominent businessman and she killed herself? Then what?

c

 

[stosstruppe]

Invasion of privacy and/or IIED. Depends on NJ law.

Agreed.

They shouldn't be charged with anything directly related to the suicide though.

 

[b0und]

The guys who filmed this kid having gay sex and released the tape should be punished.

They should be forced to have gay sex, top/bottom doesn't matter, and be filmed of course.

The tape should then be released on the internet for all to see.

If the girl is hot I'll definitely wanna see the girl/girl tape, preferably with a forced strap on penetration.

Then everyone one should taunt them for being fags now until they jump off a bridge as well.

And that would totally pwn!










b0und (see, I actually thought this through!)

 

[redsamurai]

oh look everyone...someone who perceives and intuits this reality further than their own nose. Well I'm glad at least two people now seem to get it.

It all comes down to %. Was he 10%, 30%, 50% responsible for pushign him over the edge? Would he have killed himself that night if this hadn't happeened?

That and videotaping someone, broadcasting it TO THE WORLD and being a minor gay producer (makes u wonder aobut his own sexuality). That alone is a few years right there. Imagine someone videotaping britney and broadcasting it to the world - 50 years/ min?

Look at how much time that buy who videotaped espn's andrews got. At least he didn't live stream it to the world.

btw: ther are MUCH bigger issues here. If nothing barely happens - internet, wireless webcams, etc. are everywhere nowadays. It would send a message for roommates everywhere to setup webcams to capture their friends, gfs, etc. having sex and stream it live. Including targeting gays & lesbians. What about someone sticking a webcam in women's locker room or bathroom? What about someone doing it cuz they hate their roommate? (more than enough of that everwhere!). What about future suicides from the embarassment? (imagine a female who's in the closet, with a fiancee webstreamed having lesbian sex?) What about pissed off bf's sending that captured video to her workplace?

Much bigger issues here - and hence why seriuos penalites must be given to this clearly well-orchestrated, planned-out episode of invading someone's privacy, creating gay porn of them and ridiculuing them to all of their friends and the world.

What if the person wasn't gay but an attractive female, on the honor role, daughter of a prominent businessman and she killed herself? Then what?

c

 

[redsamurai]

Oh, jeez, the selective PC police. Is a gay dude not a fag anymore? I'll send AAP the memo.

really? you think my problem was that you called him a fag? The kids dead....does that not register?

Sick? What, are "consentual homosexual couples" (still offensive?) up there with pedophiles now? Nobody's claiming sickness when pranks like this are done with "consentual heterosexual couples" (is straight considered PC?).

I beleive I stated my problem with this was the whole premeditated "egregious" invasion of privacy....the kid being gay had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately his being gay was the reason why he probably jumped....but that say's more about us than it does him. And yeah, you probably didn't have to call him a fag given that he's dead....it's not PC it's just common decency. Either you have it or you don't...

? Are you really that disconnected from 20-year-olds and today's society?

apparently

 

[canadianhitman]

I think they should get whatever the norm is for netcasting someone having sex without their consent; no more, no less. The suicide should have ZERO bearing on this case.