Now, now.....let's not get nasty....al I said was you won't be LARGE without getting a little bit chunky during bulking....just a matter of science....I never said FAT, in fact, I am very against getting fat to gain muscle.......but, it's virtually impossible to put on a nice chunk of mass and hold on to the abs....finding that out the hard way.......I'd rather go by bf% than waist size.....NEVER higher than 12%............