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Very Important! 10 Year Anniv. Of Waco Slaughter! Do Not Forget!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Frackal
  • Start date Start date
but wait...there's more...


The next issue the Court must address is the Plaintiffs' allegation that FBI agents fired into the Compound on April 19, 1993 to prevent the Davidians from exiting. As the Court previously noted, there is sufficient summary judgment proof contained in the record in this case, along with the report from Vector Data Systems, to rule upon this issue without the necessity for a hearing, although the Court did provide the opportunity for the parties to address these issues in a hearing. The basis for Plaintiffs' argument in this regard is the presence of flashes or glints of light that could [**11] be seen on the FLIR tape taken on April 19. The Court has carefully considered all of the expert testimony filed by both sides, as well as that of VDS, and has determined that Plaintiffs have failed to establish that any of those "anomalies" are gunfire. This is bolstered by the following: (1) the glints are too long in light of the signature flashes of the fastest weapons possessed by the FBI on that day; and (2) there is no detectable human presence in the vicinity of the glints. Plaintiffs' experts offer mere speculation that FBI agents could have been there and might have been wearing clothing that would not have been detected by the FLIR. Mere speculation does not constitute proof, and there is no further proof in support of those claims. Accordingly, it is ORDERED that the Government is entitled to Judgment as a matter of law on the FLIR issue.

Andrade v. U.S., 116 F.Supp.2d 778, 783 (2000).
 
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Now THAT is interesting bwood... do you have anymore?


I'd be curious to how they came to that conclusion... do you have any idea:


- How they determined who brought what weapons

- Whether there were genuine tests comparing the flash signatures...not just testimony from FBI experts or what-not?

I ask because I've seen testimony from 2 separate independent sources, one ex high level govt analyst and one independent analyst company both stating that it was automatic weapon fire...I have a hard time believing it would be anyone else but agents...as Branch davidians would have been gunned down if they were sitting there firing automatics outside.

That is asking too much to investigate for yourself if it's not readily available I realize, it would be near impossible to discover..but if you have the info on hand I'd be interested
 
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dude this is not a slight...

but before i put any of this stuff out, i have
to spend an inordinate amount of time
checking that the cases are still good
and havent been overturned...

so that i dont look like an idiot...

i dont think that your sources have done the same...

it is late and i am going to bed...

i will try to get to what "I THINK" that the us supreme court said
in dismissing the "self defense" claims tomorrow...

but i will be sure of it before posting...

frac, in all honesty, you are dealing with a lot of
crap with some of those sources...
 
bwood said:
dude this is not a slight...

but before i put any of this stuff out, i have
to spend an inordinate amount of time
checking that the cases are still good
and havent been overturned...

so that i dont look like an idiot...

i dont think that your sources have done the same...

it is late and i am going to bed...

i will try to get to what "I THINK" that the us supreme court said
in dismissing the "self defense" claims tomorrow...

but i will be sure of it before posting...

frac, in all honesty, you are dealing with a lot of
crap with some of those sources...



It's possible that I am ...but one of the problems is that the Official Truth is dictated by the many of the same people that are suspect in this case, so anything less looks more suspect...

I can be convinced that this was a justified venture, but that will be very difficult given all the evidence I've seen..
 
you know, frackal, i think the main reason some of the people on this thread are arguing with you is because you make it sound like the ATF sent a death-squad to waco with the specific intent to murder all of the branch davidians(sp?)..

also, as someone else pointed out, you act as if you know the whole truth while at the same time admit that none of us know the whole truth.

plus, some of your "facts" are a bit off i.e. no warrant, no illegal weapons found, cleared of molestation claims.

i am probably wrong though.
 
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rushx,

I don't mean to act as though I know the entire story and no one else knows anything relevant...some of my facts may be wrong or slightly off..the warrant thing for example, I am still not sure if the warrant was ever produced publicly, but more importantly there was the issue of executing the raid despite the fact that the element of surprise had been lost....

About illegal weapons, I don't believe I ever said that no illegal weapons were found....I may have said they were cleared by local authorities in the past of having illegal weapons which is true to my knowledge....

Also as I understand it they were investigated and cleared twice by local authorities for molestation claims...so that was not faulty information either.... I'm sure it's possible that Koresh did do this, but he was cleared by local authorities as far as I know...I will doublecheck though


collegiatelifter,

I wish I knew...I think dcup offers the best insight into that...
 
p0ink said:
i'm just curious here....

yeah, a bunch of people got killed, but why do you care?



I am also curious. You are very concerned when the power base of the right wing stands to get diminished. Fine.

You clearly do not care about human life though, you have demonstarted this previously.

Just an observation.
 
One thing I'd like to point out to bwood and others is that the flashes that the judge said: "Did not match any automatic-weapon fire that the FBI had that day" were called automatic weapons fire by 2 or more independent analyst sources...And as you can see the Judge does not say that the flashes were not automatic weapons fire, just that it didn't match anything the FBI had that day.... that's assuming everyone has been told the truth about their arsenal...
 
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