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Too much cardio
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Cackerot69
New member
Yes, it is.
I say eat something before your cardio and do high intensity/low intensity intervals for about 15-20 minutes 3 maybe 4 times a week max.
I say eat something before your cardio and do high intensity/low intensity intervals for about 15-20 minutes 3 maybe 4 times a week max.
I don't see any problem with doing both. That's what I always do in preparation for my competitions and that's while I'm depleting my carbs and everything. On the other hand....you're not trying to compete, so I'd raise the morning cardio to about 45 min. and that should be fine.
Angel Face
New member
Cardio
Studies examining hypertrophy and strength gains while peforming cardio routines show that individuals doing cardio gained less...
...Why? the people that performed cardio overtrained..thus the lack of gains is primarily attributed to OTS...These individuals trained like endurance athletes and strength athltes at the same time.
...You can tolerate more cardio than you realise without actually losing muscle tissue...it depends on volume and intensity...interval training is an excellent form of training and I cannot recommend it enough!...adding more cardio is not a problem as long as you dont go cardio crazy...
...Rememebr this cardio itself does not burn fat...you burn fat at low intensities thus while relaxing you burn fat ...the higher intensity that you are wroking the more Crabohydrates you are utilsing hence.. cardio for fat loss purposes should be used to stimulate the metabolism...thus neccessitating interval training...low intensity long duration cardio is not optimal for loosing fat rapidly!
Studies examining hypertrophy and strength gains while peforming cardio routines show that individuals doing cardio gained less...
...Why? the people that performed cardio overtrained..thus the lack of gains is primarily attributed to OTS...These individuals trained like endurance athletes and strength athltes at the same time.
...You can tolerate more cardio than you realise without actually losing muscle tissue...it depends on volume and intensity...interval training is an excellent form of training and I cannot recommend it enough!...adding more cardio is not a problem as long as you dont go cardio crazy...
...Rememebr this cardio itself does not burn fat...you burn fat at low intensities thus while relaxing you burn fat ...the higher intensity that you are wroking the more Crabohydrates you are utilsing hence.. cardio for fat loss purposes should be used to stimulate the metabolism...thus neccessitating interval training...low intensity long duration cardio is not optimal for loosing fat rapidly!
gymtime
New member
Re: Cardio
Can you explain this more? I don't see how relaxing can be considered "low intensity". I consider it "no intensity". Sustained, low intensity cardio training has been widely accepted as the best way to lose bodyfat without sacrificing muscle tissue. Are you saying that this is invalid?
Angel Face said:
Can you explain this more? I don't see how relaxing can be considered "low intensity". I consider it "no intensity". Sustained, low intensity cardio training has been widely accepted as the best way to lose bodyfat without sacrificing muscle tissue. Are you saying that this is invalid?
Angel Face
New member
What I am saying is low intensity cardio has its place but its not optimal...
...your utilsation of fat and carbs exists on a conituum at one extreme end is complete rest...at this end your body oxidizes (scientific refrence for burning basically) at the other extreme is the highest intensity exercise...basically anaerobic exercises like sprinting...at this end of the continuum all energy is obtained via carbohydrates....
...in its most basic form fat burning is time costly - its not efficient as it takes (in relative terms) a long time to be broken down to provide energy...with carbs its different as energy is obtained rapidly...
...so low intensity areobics will burn a percentage of fat and carbs...but the amount of fat in poundage terms is pretty much negligable so its optimal to perform cardio to super charge your metabolism....Interval training can increase your metabolic rate for 12-16 hours...consequently you will be burning more Kcal throughout this time than you would if yu had not done the cardio.
...Its like this losing weigth is all about one thing: expending more kcal than you intake...it doesnt matter if you do cardio all day long and eat only the cleanest food in the world...if your Kcal intake is too high (over or at maintenance level) then forget about losing a pound!.
...your utilsation of fat and carbs exists on a conituum at one extreme end is complete rest...at this end your body oxidizes (scientific refrence for burning basically) at the other extreme is the highest intensity exercise...basically anaerobic exercises like sprinting...at this end of the continuum all energy is obtained via carbohydrates....
...in its most basic form fat burning is time costly - its not efficient as it takes (in relative terms) a long time to be broken down to provide energy...with carbs its different as energy is obtained rapidly...
...so low intensity areobics will burn a percentage of fat and carbs...but the amount of fat in poundage terms is pretty much negligable so its optimal to perform cardio to super charge your metabolism....Interval training can increase your metabolic rate for 12-16 hours...consequently you will be burning more Kcal throughout this time than you would if yu had not done the cardio.
...Its like this losing weigth is all about one thing: expending more kcal than you intake...it doesnt matter if you do cardio all day long and eat only the cleanest food in the world...if your Kcal intake is too high (over or at maintenance level) then forget about losing a pound!.
gymtime
New member
OK, I think I get it. I found an article on it as well:
High Intensity Interval Training - The Optimal Protocol for Fat Loss?
So at the risk of squeezing you for even more info, I have two questions.
Would 20 minutes of interval training, say three times a week be sufficient?
Is it still best to do this in the am on an empty stomach?
High Intensity Interval Training - The Optimal Protocol for Fat Loss?
So at the risk of squeezing you for even more info, I have two questions.
Would 20 minutes of interval training, say three times a week be sufficient?
Is it still best to do this in the am on an empty stomach?
fhg43
New member
low intensity long duration cardio is not optimal for loosing fat rapidly!
This statement is false. Cardio works in a number of ways to stimulate weight and fat loss. When marathon runners do their long ass workouts (3+ hours) they burn fat and lots of it-look at them they're all twig skinny. Yes they are very strong muscularly-they just don't have the size. Your body likes to burn simple sugars first because they are easy to burn. Your body will burn off all the glucose you have in about 15-30 minutes. The fitter (aerobically) you are the faster your body will burn fat. Your body really likes burning fat as it converts to ATP faster and a fat cell releases like 120+ ATPs where as carbs and protein when converted release 38 ATPs. Fat is an almost bottomless energy source for your body, but you need some carbs to help burn the fat. You never burn just fat or just carbs; it is always a ratio of carbs/fat/protein. When endurance athletes "bonk" that means that they have run out of carbs to help burn fat so they are basically out of energy.
IMO if you are cutting you should do cardio for 1 hour on non-lifting days. That's right 1 hour. Obviously you need to be spot on in recovering from those workouts; lots of protein with some carbs, good supplements etc... Don't start out doing an hour build up to it. Don't go running unless your knees are real good. Try riding a bike or go for a vigorous walk. Thats right- a vigorous walk! It's exercise and you an do it for an hour easily-not too hard on the joints. Bike riding is good as it is easy on the joints. Treadmills or exercise bikes are boring so I suggest doing the real thing. 3 hours a week seems like a lot, but not considering what you are shooting for. It may be too much for very serious bodybuilders, but anybody who just wants to look nice a trim and cut-3 hours is just fine. It's catabolic of you recover properly.
Doing cardio for less than an hour is a waste of time IMO. If you want to do less cardio do 2 days at 1 hour. But do at least an hour. You're a serious athlete if you read this board so you can do a hour of cardio. 2-a-days are great; just do an hour in the morning and :30 in the evening. Doing that twice a week will be great for you.
Just do at least an hour! Oh yeah when you do it; don't lollygag-put some effort into it!
FHG
This statement is false. Cardio works in a number of ways to stimulate weight and fat loss. When marathon runners do their long ass workouts (3+ hours) they burn fat and lots of it-look at them they're all twig skinny. Yes they are very strong muscularly-they just don't have the size. Your body likes to burn simple sugars first because they are easy to burn. Your body will burn off all the glucose you have in about 15-30 minutes. The fitter (aerobically) you are the faster your body will burn fat. Your body really likes burning fat as it converts to ATP faster and a fat cell releases like 120+ ATPs where as carbs and protein when converted release 38 ATPs. Fat is an almost bottomless energy source for your body, but you need some carbs to help burn the fat. You never burn just fat or just carbs; it is always a ratio of carbs/fat/protein. When endurance athletes "bonk" that means that they have run out of carbs to help burn fat so they are basically out of energy.
IMO if you are cutting you should do cardio for 1 hour on non-lifting days. That's right 1 hour. Obviously you need to be spot on in recovering from those workouts; lots of protein with some carbs, good supplements etc... Don't start out doing an hour build up to it. Don't go running unless your knees are real good. Try riding a bike or go for a vigorous walk. Thats right- a vigorous walk! It's exercise and you an do it for an hour easily-not too hard on the joints. Bike riding is good as it is easy on the joints. Treadmills or exercise bikes are boring so I suggest doing the real thing. 3 hours a week seems like a lot, but not considering what you are shooting for. It may be too much for very serious bodybuilders, but anybody who just wants to look nice a trim and cut-3 hours is just fine. It's catabolic of you recover properly.
Doing cardio for less than an hour is a waste of time IMO. If you want to do less cardio do 2 days at 1 hour. But do at least an hour. You're a serious athlete if you read this board so you can do a hour of cardio. 2-a-days are great; just do an hour in the morning and :30 in the evening. Doing that twice a week will be great for you.
Just do at least an hour! Oh yeah when you do it; don't lollygag-put some effort into it!
FHG
jennifer BFL chick
New member
I personally find that a combination of both high intensity, and low intensity cardio is best.
Angel Face
New member
FHG
I disagree..please prove your statement scientifically...I will repost later as I dont have the time to write some of the biochemical priciples right now...
..show me the scientific data for your statements..I can easily show them for mine!
I disagree..please prove your statement scientifically...I will repost later as I dont have the time to write some of the biochemical priciples right now...
..show me the scientific data for your statements..I can easily show them for mine!
Angel Face
New member
GYMTIME
The article that you posted pretty much sums up my point...With regards to how often you should perform HIIT ...it depends (sorry I never seem to give clear answers LOL!) ...it all depends on homeostasis once you have got to a point where you have adapted to the stimulus then you need to change either by increasing volume or duration....
three times a week for 20 mins is a great place to start keep the intensity high, it should be very uncomfortable...get a heart rate monitor and monitor your intensity through your HR (for an extremely basic refrence point you max HR should not exceed 220 minus your age)...
...So I recommend that you go ahead with your interval training but closely monitor your conditioning once it plateaus is the time to increase the volume to a point...Overtraining is a concern with Hiit...ask if you want to know more..I dont really have much time at this second.!!
The article that you posted pretty much sums up my point...With regards to how often you should perform HIIT ...it depends (sorry I never seem to give clear answers LOL!) ...it all depends on homeostasis once you have got to a point where you have adapted to the stimulus then you need to change either by increasing volume or duration....
three times a week for 20 mins is a great place to start keep the intensity high, it should be very uncomfortable...get a heart rate monitor and monitor your intensity through your HR (for an extremely basic refrence point you max HR should not exceed 220 minus your age)...
...So I recommend that you go ahead with your interval training but closely monitor your conditioning once it plateaus is the time to increase the volume to a point...Overtraining is a concern with Hiit...ask if you want to know more..I dont really have much time at this second.!!
gymtime
New member
Hmmmmm.....what to do. I think you two are purposely making my life difficult!!! 
j/k Seriously, thank you both for replying. Strong arguements on both sides so I'll likely end up trying both.
AF - Any info you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated! Please PM me with anything you have at your convenience. Also, there is a post by Warlobo on the Women's board that puts up a good argument for the 60-minute, low-intensity am cardio. You might want to check that out.
Again, thank you both for the input!
j/k Seriously, thank you both for replying. Strong arguements on both sides so I'll likely end up trying both. AF - Any info you could provide me with would be greatly appreciated! Please PM me with anything you have at your convenience. Also, there is a post by Warlobo on the Women's board that puts up a good argument for the 60-minute, low-intensity am cardio. You might want to check that out.
Again, thank you both for the input!
fhg43
New member
Angel Face-
Just read any anatomy/physiology textbook. HIIT cardio will work okay but you don't burn as much fat as you can if you extend your cardio to an hour. I'd do a ton of research, but I'm busy at work. However I'll try and come up with something. I personally get leaner if I do harder workouts so I recognize that your assertion has validity. But in the long run I have to do extended workouts to keep BF low.
THIS IS MY POINT:
You will burn more fat if you exercise for an hour. It just seems to make sense that if you aren't a competetive BB and you want to lean out that you should do cardio longer. 20 minutes is fine for a competetive BB, but the person who posed these questions wasn't competing (I think). In a cutting cycle one's goal is to reduce BF so it makes sense to increase cardio duration. And low intensity isn't like walking around-your HR should be at 75% of max. If you maitain that pace for an hour you will burn lots of cals and fat is the primary energy source. Marathoners are 4% BF because they run 2-3 hours at 65-80% max HR not because they do 30 minutes of HIIT. They may do HIIT during 2-3 hour run (in fact I'm sure they do as my fiancee is a marathoner), but they are still continually exercising for 2-3 hours. IMO 20 minutes is pretty useless as it just burns off blood glucose and you sweat out water weight. Yes your metabolism stays higher for while and this may cause you to burn more fat. But it seems more effective to increase exercise time. . .
I think gymtime should incorporate both forms of cardio into his exercise routine. Maybe two days of HIIT and one day of hour plus cardio. I agree with you that too much HIIT is a recipe for burn out. That is why it is a good idea to mix it up (cardio workouts).
I know HIIT works. Everybody talks about how it is better than doing longer workouts, but this assertion isn't entirely true. A lot of people don't know what intensity level they need to maintain during a longer cardio workout. Lots of people underestimate the intensity and they think long cardio doesn't work (i.e. they aren't going hard enough). Obviously using a HR monitor would be best, but a good rule of thumb is you should be exerting yourself to the point where you cannot comfortably carry on a conversation. An example of this is when you do a VOMax test they are monitoring your HR, wattage, and gas exchange, but they always ask you your intensity level via a scale of 1-20, 20 being maximum effort. Usually your threshold is when you indicate you are uncomfortable at level 16 which is ~75-80%.
FHG
Just read any anatomy/physiology textbook. HIIT cardio will work okay but you don't burn as much fat as you can if you extend your cardio to an hour. I'd do a ton of research, but I'm busy at work. However I'll try and come up with something. I personally get leaner if I do harder workouts so I recognize that your assertion has validity. But in the long run I have to do extended workouts to keep BF low.
THIS IS MY POINT:
You will burn more fat if you exercise for an hour. It just seems to make sense that if you aren't a competetive BB and you want to lean out that you should do cardio longer. 20 minutes is fine for a competetive BB, but the person who posed these questions wasn't competing (I think). In a cutting cycle one's goal is to reduce BF so it makes sense to increase cardio duration. And low intensity isn't like walking around-your HR should be at 75% of max. If you maitain that pace for an hour you will burn lots of cals and fat is the primary energy source. Marathoners are 4% BF because they run 2-3 hours at 65-80% max HR not because they do 30 minutes of HIIT. They may do HIIT during 2-3 hour run (in fact I'm sure they do as my fiancee is a marathoner), but they are still continually exercising for 2-3 hours. IMO 20 minutes is pretty useless as it just burns off blood glucose and you sweat out water weight. Yes your metabolism stays higher for while and this may cause you to burn more fat. But it seems more effective to increase exercise time. . .
I think gymtime should incorporate both forms of cardio into his exercise routine. Maybe two days of HIIT and one day of hour plus cardio. I agree with you that too much HIIT is a recipe for burn out. That is why it is a good idea to mix it up (cardio workouts).
I know HIIT works. Everybody talks about how it is better than doing longer workouts, but this assertion isn't entirely true. A lot of people don't know what intensity level they need to maintain during a longer cardio workout. Lots of people underestimate the intensity and they think long cardio doesn't work (i.e. they aren't going hard enough). Obviously using a HR monitor would be best, but a good rule of thumb is you should be exerting yourself to the point where you cannot comfortably carry on a conversation. An example of this is when you do a VOMax test they are monitoring your HR, wattage, and gas exchange, but they always ask you your intensity level via a scale of 1-20, 20 being maximum effort. Usually your threshold is when you indicate you are uncomfortable at level 16 which is ~75-80%.
FHG
Cackerot69
New member
Intervals are better.
Say you do low intensity cardio for an hour and burn 250 cals, 70% fat and 30% glucose. So, you burned 175 calories from fat.
Or, you could do some interval training for a half an hour and burn 500 calories, 40% fat and 60% glucose. so, you burned 200 calories from fat.
Note the duration difference.
What's better for burning fat?
Say you do low intensity cardio for an hour and burn 250 cals, 70% fat and 30% glucose. So, you burned 175 calories from fat.
Or, you could do some interval training for a half an hour and burn 500 calories, 40% fat and 60% glucose. so, you burned 200 calories from fat.
Note the duration difference.
What's better for burning fat?
fhg43
New member
Long Cardio is better to answer your question Cack.
People who run for an hour are skinnier than people who only run for 20 minutes.
Marathoners are leaner and smaller than sprinters.
The longer you exercise the more calories you burn which means more fat burned.
My theory is that people want to believe in HIIT because they are lazy and don't want to do a long cardio workout they know is better. Long cardio has worked for everyone who has tried it for centuries dating back to the year 490BC when a Greek guy ran across thru the plain to the city of Marathon to bring news of a victory over the Persians.
FHG
People who run for an hour are skinnier than people who only run for 20 minutes.
Marathoners are leaner and smaller than sprinters.
The longer you exercise the more calories you burn which means more fat burned.
My theory is that people want to believe in HIIT because they are lazy and don't want to do a long cardio workout they know is better. Long cardio has worked for everyone who has tried it for centuries dating back to the year 490BC when a Greek guy ran across thru the plain to the city of Marathon to bring news of a victory over the Persians.
FHG
Cackerot69
New member
Longer doesn;t = more calories bruned if the intensity is lower.
If you sprint for 10 minutes you burn about the same cals as walking for an hour. Call me lazy but I'd rather bust my ass for 15-20 minutes with intervals than sit on a bike for an hour and get the same, if not more benefits.
I'd also much rather look like a sprinter, but that;s beside the point.
All cardio has worked for everyone dating back to when the neandrathals were walking around.
If you sprint for 10 minutes you burn about the same cals as walking for an hour. Call me lazy but I'd rather bust my ass for 15-20 minutes with intervals than sit on a bike for an hour and get the same, if not more benefits.
I'd also much rather look like a sprinter, but that;s beside the point.
All cardio has worked for everyone dating back to when the neandrathals were walking around.
PowerManDL
New member
fhg43 said:
People who run for an hour are skinnier all right-- they don't have any fat but they don't have any muscle tissue either.
Marathoners are leaner and smaller than sprinters. But I'd rather look like the sprinter, as I think most people who lift would.
Maybe you do burn more calories the longer you run, but that's not always a good thing. Nor are you taking into account the fact that HIIT is muscle sparing, which keeps metabolism higher, and that it actually aids the muscle tissue in metabolizing fat for fuel.
People want to do HIIT because it spares muscle, because it is more efficient that endurance cardio, it is more specific to strength training than endurance cardio, and because it also burns more total body fat than endurance cardio.
And just for the record, that Greek guy keeled over when he got to Marathon.
nikolai_bolkov
New member
I'm not even sure marathoners are leaner than sprinters. If you look at the top athletes, they appear equally 'lean' in terms of bf%, just that the sprinters have significantly more muscle.
If you want to combine an hour long workout with sprint intensity, try training for boxing. IMO, training for boxing is unequalled in terms of cardio, but you also keep your muscles working. I dropped 20 pounds of fat in 2 months training boxing and muay thai. I know it's fat because I didn't even have any muscles at that point. Left me lean and toned. My goals now are different (size), but I am going back to the boxing gym because weights and my occasional (2-3 a week) track runs aren't doing it for me in turns of fat loss anymore.
Also, that hour will go quickly, and it's hell of a lot more fun than grueling it out on the track, stairmaster, stationary bike or whatever. It's also easier to go through the torture when you have a coach yelling at you, unless you have discipline of steel and can do it by yourself.
If you want to combine an hour long workout with sprint intensity, try training for boxing. IMO, training for boxing is unequalled in terms of cardio, but you also keep your muscles working. I dropped 20 pounds of fat in 2 months training boxing and muay thai. I know it's fat because I didn't even have any muscles at that point. Left me lean and toned. My goals now are different (size), but I am going back to the boxing gym because weights and my occasional (2-3 a week) track runs aren't doing it for me in turns of fat loss anymore.
Also, that hour will go quickly, and it's hell of a lot more fun than grueling it out on the track, stairmaster, stationary bike or whatever. It's also easier to go through the torture when you have a coach yelling at you, unless you have discipline of steel and can do it by yourself.
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