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Today is not Jesus's Birthday
- Thread starter biteme
- Start date
PsychoSkitz
New member
Because most Christians are sheep that do what they're told?
http://www.christmas.com/pe/1446
Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.
Born nearly two thousand years ago, Christians believe Him to be the Son of God. Whether Jesus was really born on December 25th, no one can say for certain. It was chosen because it already was a holiday in ancient times -a pagan feast. But pagans did not believe in Jesus. Around the third century there was an attempt to fix the day of His birth by tying it to a festival of the Nativity kept in Rome in the time of Bishop Telesphorus (between A.D. 127 and 139). Some Christmas observances of the Roman Church are said to be of Bishop Telesphorus' appointment. There was also a story of Christians being massacred in the catacombs on the day of the Nativity between A.D. 161 and 180 but the exact year, again is not known. In A.D. 300, a similar event is said to have taken place at Nicomedia in the reign of Diocletian. Neither of these stories seem reliable as a measure of the day Christ was born.
It was believed the Nativity took place, indeed, on the 25th of the month; but which month was uncertain and every month at one time or another has been assigned. During the time of Clement of Alexandria (before 220) five dates in three different months of the Egyptian year were said to be the Nativity. One of those corresponds to the December 25th date. During the third century, it was a common belief that Christ was born on the winter solstice based on an interpetation of some prophetic scriptures and an idea that the Annunciation and the Crucifixion both occured on the same day - March 25th. Another third century set of writings, The Apostolic Constitutions, indicate the Apostles ordained that the feast be kept on the 25th day of the ninth month which, at that time meant December. The works of John Selden, published in 1661, suggested that in the early Christian ages the winter solstice fell on the 8th of the Kalends of January, that is, December 25th, though not accepted universally by modern day students who put the day between the end of July and the end of October.
The Roman Church finally fixed December 25th as the birthday of Jesus Christ after the great persecution that took place around A.D. 310; which connects the visitation of the wise men from the East, being celebrated twelve days later. Though questioned for several generations by the Eastern Church, the Roman day became universal in the fifth century.
Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.
Born nearly two thousand years ago, Christians believe Him to be the Son of God. Whether Jesus was really born on December 25th, no one can say for certain. It was chosen because it already was a holiday in ancient times -a pagan feast. But pagans did not believe in Jesus. Around the third century there was an attempt to fix the day of His birth by tying it to a festival of the Nativity kept in Rome in the time of Bishop Telesphorus (between A.D. 127 and 139). Some Christmas observances of the Roman Church are said to be of Bishop Telesphorus' appointment. There was also a story of Christians being massacred in the catacombs on the day of the Nativity between A.D. 161 and 180 but the exact year, again is not known. In A.D. 300, a similar event is said to have taken place at Nicomedia in the reign of Diocletian. Neither of these stories seem reliable as a measure of the day Christ was born.
It was believed the Nativity took place, indeed, on the 25th of the month; but which month was uncertain and every month at one time or another has been assigned. During the time of Clement of Alexandria (before 220) five dates in three different months of the Egyptian year were said to be the Nativity. One of those corresponds to the December 25th date. During the third century, it was a common belief that Christ was born on the winter solstice based on an interpetation of some prophetic scriptures and an idea that the Annunciation and the Crucifixion both occured on the same day - March 25th. Another third century set of writings, The Apostolic Constitutions, indicate the Apostles ordained that the feast be kept on the 25th day of the ninth month which, at that time meant December. The works of John Selden, published in 1661, suggested that in the early Christian ages the winter solstice fell on the 8th of the Kalends of January, that is, December 25th, though not accepted universally by modern day students who put the day between the end of July and the end of October.
The Roman Church finally fixed December 25th as the birthday of Jesus Christ after the great persecution that took place around A.D. 310; which connects the visitation of the wise men from the East, being celebrated twelve days later. Though questioned for several generations by the Eastern Church, the Roman day became universal in the fifth century.
Jesus was born in the Spring. The Roman festival Saturnalia celebrated the end of the Roman year as well as the winter solstice.
This pagan festival was very well-liked by the Roman Armies, so when the emperor Constantine instituted Christianity as the official state religion, he replaced Saturnalia with Christmas.
This helped smooth the transition for the empire.
Anyone want to hear where they go the Virgin Birth from?
This pagan festival was very well-liked by the Roman Armies, so when the emperor Constantine instituted Christianity as the official state religion, he replaced Saturnalia with Christmas.
This helped smooth the transition for the empire.
Anyone want to hear where they go the Virgin Birth from?
ConstantChange
New member
Sure...enlighten us. 
ConstantChange said:Sure...enlighten us.
I can only imagine you mean me.
Anyway, the dominant religion in the Roman Empire around 300 AD was something called Mithraism. Mithra was the big cheese deity in that one. Mithraism was very popular with the Roman Armies, and dates back hundreds of years BC to the Persian empire.
Mithra was believed to have been born to a virgin. In order to develop a stronger following of Christianity among the Roman military, this characteristic was projected to Jesus.
Any other questions?
Testosterone boy
New member
MattTheSkywalker said:
Thank you...and here is your reward.
Enjoy and don't spend it all in one place.
I believe that the concept of the virgin birth can be attributed to many ancient religious beliefs. I recall reading this in Josephs's Cambell's book, "The many masks of God" I think was the title. That book and another I read would cause me to doubt any religious book. I don't see how any Christian's or people of other faiths could continue to believe their religious doctrine's after reading these myth exposing books. Seems like noone wants the truth to get out.
T
t3c
Guest
minion said:
interesting
Hollywood131
New member
Christmas
Is Christmas a celebration based on the Bible?
M'Clintock and Strong's Cyclopedia says: "The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin. The day of Christ's birth cannot be acertained from the N[ew] T[estament] ,or,indeed,from any other source."
-(New York, 1871),Vol.II,p.276.
Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepards were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus' birth. The book "Daily Life in the Time of Jesus" states: "The flocks...passed the winter under cover;and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the sheperds were in the fields."
-(New York, 1962),Henri Daniel-Rops,p.228.
The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: "The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun'...The Roman Saturnalia(A festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun.), also took place at this time, and some Christmas customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration.-(1977), Vol.6,p.666.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: "The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month...According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener...and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice(December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the "dies natalis Solis Invicti(birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularily strong at Rome.-(1967),Vol.III,p.656.
Wise men, or Magi, led by a star
Those Magi were actually astrologers from the east. (Matt.2:1,2,NW;NE)
Although astrology is popular among many today, the practice is strongly disapproved in the Bible. (Deut.18:10-12)
Would God have led to the newborn Jesus persons whose practices He condemned?
Matthew 2:1-16 shows that the star led the astrologers first to King Herod and then to Jesus and that Herod then sought to have Jesus killed. No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star". After they left, Jehovah's angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt to safeguard the child. Was that "star" a sign from God or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's son destroyed?
Note that the Bible account does not say that they found the babe in a manger, as customarily depicted in Christmas art. When the astologers arrived, Jesus and his parents were living in a house. As to Jesus' age at the time, remember that, based on what Herod had learned from the astrologers, he decreed that all the boys in the district of Bethlehem two years of age and under were to be destroyed.
-Matt.2:1,11,16.
Gift giving as part of the celebration; stories about Santa Claus, Father Christmas, etc.
The practice of Christmas gift giving is not based on what was done by the Magi. As shown above, they did not arrive at the time of Jesus' birth. Furthermore, they gave gifts, not to one another, but to the child Jesus, in accord with what was then customary when visiting notable persons.
Depending on where they live, children are told that gifts are brought by Santa Claus, St. Nicholas, Father Christmas, Pere Noel, Knecht Ruprecht, the Magi, the elf Jultomten(or Julenissen),or a witch known as La Befana.(The World Book Encyclopedia, 1984, Vol.3,p.414) Of course, none these stories are actually true. Does the telling of such stories build in children a respect for the truth, and does such a practice honor Jesus Christ, who taught that God must be worshiped with truth?-John 4:23,24.
Compare Exodus 32:4-10. Notice that the Israelites adopted an Egyptian religious practice but gave it a new name, "a festival to Jehovah." But Jehovah severely punished them for this. Today we see only 20th century practices associated with holidays. Some may appear harmless. But God observed firsthand the pagan religious practices from which these originated. Should not this view be what matters to us?
Illustration: Suppose a crowd came to a gentleman's home saying they are there to celebrate his birthday. He does not favor the celebration of birthdays. He does not like to see people overeat or get drunk or engage in loose conduct. But some of them do all those things, and they bring presents for everyone there except him! On top of that, they pick the birthday of one of the man's enemies as the date for the celebration. How would the man feel? Would you want to be a party to it? This is exactly what is being done by Christmas celebrations.
Do Bible references to birthday celebrations put them in a favorable light?
Gen.40:20-22: "Now on the third day it turned out to be Pharaoh's birthday, and he proceeded to make a feast...Accordingly he returned the chief of the cupbearers to his post of cupbearer... But the chief of the bakers he hung up."
Matt.14:6-10: "When Herod's birthday was being celebrated the daughter of Herodias danced at it and pleased Herod so much that he promised with an oath to give her whatever she asked. Then she, under her mother's coaching said: "Give me here upon a platter the head of John the Baptist.'...He sent and had John beheaded in the prison."
Everything that is in the Bible is there for a reason.
(2 Tim.3:16,17)True Christians take note that God's Word reports unfavorably about birthday celebrations and so shun these.
How did early Christians and Jews of Bible times view birthday celebrations?
"The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."-The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries(New York,1848), Augustus Neander(translated by Henri John Rose),p.190.
"The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days.
-The Imperial Bible-Dictionary(London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p.225.
What is the origin of popular customs associated with birthday celebrations?
"The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating-complete with lighted candles -in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year...Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom."
-Schwabische Zeitung(magazine supplement Zeit und Welt),April 3/4,
1981, p.4.
"The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea...This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint...The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks...Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]...Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes...Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic signifigance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune...Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday...Originally the idea was rooted in magic...Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."-The Lore of Birthdays(New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp.8,18-20.
Is Christmas a celebration based on the Bible?
M'Clintock and Strong's Cyclopedia says: "The observance of Christmas is not of divine appointment, nor is it of N[ew] T[estament] origin. The day of Christ's birth cannot be acertained from the N[ew] T[estament] ,or,indeed,from any other source."
-(New York, 1871),Vol.II,p.276.
Luke 2:8-11 shows that shepards were in the fields at night at the time of Jesus' birth. The book "Daily Life in the Time of Jesus" states: "The flocks...passed the winter under cover;and from this alone it may be seen that the traditional date for Christmas, in the winter, is unlikely to be right, since the Gospel says that the sheperds were in the fields."
-(New York, 1962),Henri Daniel-Rops,p.228.
The Encyclopedia Americana informs us: "The reason for establishing December 25 as Christmas is somewhat obscure, but it is usually held that the day was chosen to correspond to pagan festivals that took place around the time of winter solstice, when the days begin to lengthen, to celebrate the 'rebirth of the sun'...The Roman Saturnalia(A festival dedicated to Saturn, the god of agriculture, and to the renewed power of the sun.), also took place at this time, and some Christmas customs are thought to be rooted in this ancient pagan celebration.-(1977), Vol.6,p.666.
The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: "The date of Christ's birth is not known. The Gospels indicate neither the day nor the month...According to the hypothesis suggested by H. Usener...and accepted by most scholars today, the birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice(December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the "dies natalis Solis Invicti(birthday of the invincible sun). On Dec. 25, 274, Aurelian had proclaimed the sun-god principal patron of the empire and dedicated a temple to him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the sun was particularily strong at Rome.-(1967),Vol.III,p.656.
Wise men, or Magi, led by a star
Those Magi were actually astrologers from the east. (Matt.2:1,2,NW;NE)
Although astrology is popular among many today, the practice is strongly disapproved in the Bible. (Deut.18:10-12)
Would God have led to the newborn Jesus persons whose practices He condemned?
Matthew 2:1-16 shows that the star led the astrologers first to King Herod and then to Jesus and that Herod then sought to have Jesus killed. No mention is made that anyone other than the astrologers saw the "star". After they left, Jehovah's angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt to safeguard the child. Was that "star" a sign from God or was it from someone who was seeking to have God's son destroyed?
Note that the Bible account does not say that they found the babe in a manger, as customarily depicted in Christmas art. When the astologers arrived, Jesus and his parents were living in a house. As to Jesus' age at the time, remember that, based on what Herod had learned from the astrologers, he decreed that all the boys in the district of Bethlehem two years of age and under were to be destroyed.
-Matt.2:1,11,16.
Gift giving as part of the celebration; stories about Santa Claus, Father Christmas, etc.
The practice of Christmas gift giving is not based on what was done by the Magi. As shown above, they did not arrive at the time of Jesus' birth. Furthermore, they gave gifts, not to one another, but to the child Jesus, in accord with what was then customary when visiting notable persons.
Depending on where they live, children are told that gifts are brought by Santa Claus, St. Nicholas, Father Christmas, Pere Noel, Knecht Ruprecht, the Magi, the elf Jultomten(or Julenissen),or a witch known as La Befana.(The World Book Encyclopedia, 1984, Vol.3,p.414) Of course, none these stories are actually true. Does the telling of such stories build in children a respect for the truth, and does such a practice honor Jesus Christ, who taught that God must be worshiped with truth?-John 4:23,24.
Compare Exodus 32:4-10. Notice that the Israelites adopted an Egyptian religious practice but gave it a new name, "a festival to Jehovah." But Jehovah severely punished them for this. Today we see only 20th century practices associated with holidays. Some may appear harmless. But God observed firsthand the pagan religious practices from which these originated. Should not this view be what matters to us?
Illustration: Suppose a crowd came to a gentleman's home saying they are there to celebrate his birthday. He does not favor the celebration of birthdays. He does not like to see people overeat or get drunk or engage in loose conduct. But some of them do all those things, and they bring presents for everyone there except him! On top of that, they pick the birthday of one of the man's enemies as the date for the celebration. How would the man feel? Would you want to be a party to it? This is exactly what is being done by Christmas celebrations.
Do Bible references to birthday celebrations put them in a favorable light?
Gen.40:20-22: "Now on the third day it turned out to be Pharaoh's birthday, and he proceeded to make a feast...Accordingly he returned the chief of the cupbearers to his post of cupbearer... But the chief of the bakers he hung up."
Matt.14:6-10: "When Herod's birthday was being celebrated the daughter of Herodias danced at it and pleased Herod so much that he promised with an oath to give her whatever she asked. Then she, under her mother's coaching said: "Give me here upon a platter the head of John the Baptist.'...He sent and had John beheaded in the prison."
Everything that is in the Bible is there for a reason.
(2 Tim.3:16,17)True Christians take note that God's Word reports unfavorably about birthday celebrations and so shun these.
How did early Christians and Jews of Bible times view birthday celebrations?
"The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."-The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries(New York,1848), Augustus Neander(translated by Henri John Rose),p.190.
"The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days.
-The Imperial Bible-Dictionary(London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p.225.
What is the origin of popular customs associated with birthday celebrations?
"The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion. The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating-complete with lighted candles -in ancient times were meant to protect the birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year...Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday celebration as a pagan custom."
-Schwabische Zeitung(magazine supplement Zeit und Welt),April 3/4,
1981, p.4.
"The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea...This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint...The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks...Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]...Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes...Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic signifigance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune...Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday...Originally the idea was rooted in magic...Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."-The Lore of Birthdays(New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp.8,18-20.
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