The Tonight Show ( Jay Leno) fired the writers that were striking and now

[mrplunkey]

i don't disagree that SOME unions have gone too far in their demands.



BUT....



if we did not have unions we would be back to 60-70 hour work weeks with pay cuts and benefits eliminated.

how many managers/CEO's have had THEIR pay and benefit packages slashed in the last few years????

do you really believe that all the dick chenny's and corporations like "hell-a-button" would continue to pay high salaries if they didn't have to?

Wow! Here's some food for thought:

There is no such thing as a "CEO's Union"... or a "CFO's Union".... or even a "VP's Union"... yet executive pay and benefits have SOARED over the past 70 years. How did it happen? These guys didn't have a union to protect them from onerous, greedy shareholders who are investing in their companies merely to turn a fast buck. Hell, as a shareholder I'd love to see all executives making $50k/year because it would mean more dividends for me.

Do you think that maybe... just maybe... that the right thing to do is let the market set wages and benefits? I'm pretty sure the entire concept of capitalism is based on this concept. There have been some guys who tried to out-think capitalism with their own ideas (U.S.S.R., cuba, China) and it didn't work so well for them in the past.

 

[rnch]

....Do you think that maybe... just maybe... that the right thing to do is let the market set wages and benefits?...

yeh, that worked VERY WELL in the 1890's/early part of the 20th century, didn't it...while the management robber barons like carnagie, melon, getty and ford were millionaires (in THAT time period!) and living in palatial mansions up and down the east coast the workers were living in shacks and working 12 to 16 hours a day in unsafe, poorly lit sweat shops....bush & co would love to see this economic class system revived.

 

[mrplunkey]

yeh, that worked VERY WELL in the 1890's/early part of the 20th century, didn't it...while the management robber barons like carnagie, melon, getty and ford were millionaires (in THAT time period!) and living in palatial mansions up and down the east coast the workers were living in shacks and working 12 to 16 hours a day in unsafe, poorly lit sweat shops....bush & co would love to see this economic class system revived.

Yup, you caught us. All we're really after is to hold the little guy down! Never mind the fact that those evil "robber barrons" drove the early industrialization of our country. They laid the foundation for the tremendous lead we gained on the rest of the world that helped us win WWI and WWII and also let us provide leadership in the rebuilding of Europe and Japan. Now that I think about it, we didn't need railroads, or the steel industry, or the textile industrie, or automobiles did we? Those people working 12 hours a day for small wages would have been much better-off tucked-away in the hills somewhere quietly starving on their own.

Maybe we should just confiscate the wealth of today's "robber barons" as well. I think you should personally lead a raid on Bill Gates and Warren Buffet's mansions and demand they surrender their ill-gotten gains over to the people!

Wages and benefits improved from the 1890's/1900's because society demanded change. Employees wanted more and were willing to change jobs (or even industries) to pursue those opportunities. Unions latched-on to the cause and figured-out how to turn it into a business and now they continue to prey on uninformed workers like ticks cling to a dog.

 

[Arabian]

i hope for leno's downfall. being a stern fan and having watched his shit over the years, i can only have a negative opinion. he's one of the least funny dudes on the air, always has been. apparently, he used to be funny as a stand-up, but he took the tonight show in a fucking gay-ass direction. carson was fucking dope. leno's a worthless piece of shit.

They should hire Ron White.lololo

 

[rnch]

spewed forth like a toe touching management lacky, mrs. plunket

 

[Arabian]

Unions are businesses -- nothing more. Businesses exist to make a profit and provide for their employees. The funny thing is that union workers aren't "owners" or "managers" of the union business -- they are the product. The union is always trying maximize revenue (raise union dues and recruit more people) but just like any other business, its also going to try to minimize costs (do as little as possible for its members).

Unions are an obsolete throwback from the early industrial age that are doing untold damage to American workers. Sure, a few guys get to sit-around doing nothing for $30/hour but all it does is insures that product (and the job associated with it) will get shipped overseas.

So enjoy! It's all part of the forces driving jobs out of the US and destroying the middle class.

Exactly

 

[rnch]

arabian, do you REALLY beleive the unions are destroying the middle class of America?

 

[mrplunkey]

spewed forth like a toe touching management lacky, mrs. plunket

No, just spewed-forth like a realist who recognizes what is happening in both America and the world at large.

I guess it would be easier to blame the Chinese, the President, the religious right, or big corporations but the harsh reality is that big-government, socialist thinking has crippled American competitiveness and is destroying our middle class at a record rate.

 

[chewyxrage]

yeh, unions are responsible for "unrealistic" benefits like: paid vacations, sick leave, 40 hour, 8 hours a day work weeks, time and a half wages after 8 hours a day/40hours a week, liveable straight time hourly wages, healty working conditions, 15 minute breaks, uninterrupted lunch breaks away from your job.......


does anyone think that management would give workers these benefits out of the bottomless goodness for their Cold Coporate heart?

Um, Yeah. I'm not in a union and get all those things. There is no laws in my state mandating 15 minute breaks or 'liveable straight time hourly wages' (lol minimum wage is liveable?)

Paid vacation, sick leave - management decides to grant these fringe benefits, they don't have to, yet I get them. I'm not in a union, according to your logic I must work for the best employer in the world

 

[chewyxrage]

Well shit I just realized that plunkey made my point (and better) earlier in the thread, that's what I get for not reading the entire thing