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The Heavier White Women Are, The Less They Earn
- Thread starter George Spellwin
- Start date
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buksoon
Guest
Woah, some of your attitudes are really unfortunate. I'm no lawyer, nor am I capable in my mindframe right now (I'm a little batty) to talk legalese.
But, the morality of not hiring someone solely on basis of being overweight aside (sweep the moral issues under the rug, shall we?) I feel absolutely certain that it IS actionable in court.
To the poster who almost seemed to argue that it is a disability (more sick days, etc--btw, you can't discriminate based on the POTENTIAL for something, for falling into a category that has historically had problems)...
to that poster, ever hear of the Americans With Disabilities Act? So if that was going to be your strategy--the overweight are health liabilities--that's not gonna fly.
Whatever. I just get pissed off. One week "Us" or "People" magazine is questioning: "Is Hollywood Getting Too Thin?" and the next week, the very same actresses on the cover, under the heading: "Learn the secrets of their diets!!"
And no one seems to notice how fucked up that is, including--evidently--some of you ladies on the board.
But, the morality of not hiring someone solely on basis of being overweight aside (sweep the moral issues under the rug, shall we?) I feel absolutely certain that it IS actionable in court.
To the poster who almost seemed to argue that it is a disability (more sick days, etc--btw, you can't discriminate based on the POTENTIAL for something, for falling into a category that has historically had problems)...
to that poster, ever hear of the Americans With Disabilities Act? So if that was going to be your strategy--the overweight are health liabilities--that's not gonna fly.
Whatever. I just get pissed off. One week "Us" or "People" magazine is questioning: "Is Hollywood Getting Too Thin?" and the next week, the very same actresses on the cover, under the heading: "Learn the secrets of their diets!!"
And no one seems to notice how fucked up that is, including--evidently--some of you ladies on the board.
I am also not a legalese. I also do not live in America the home of the free.
But I am aware that in your country, health and life insurance companies can discriminate on many things including BMI (basically a measure of obesity) , history of tobacco smoking or other drug abuse, age, gender, self inflicted damage, etc...etc...ad infinitum. To me I don't understand why employers can't use the same common sense/statistics when deciding between two otherwise equaly competent applicants?
I would have NO hesitation in hiring or working with anyone no matter what religion/gender/race. And I would choose an obese person with a suitable personality over a healthy looking person who I felt would not work well in my group EVERYTIME. All I am admitting to is human nature. When all else appears to be equal I will choose someone that is not obese. So sue me.
But I am aware that in your country, health and life insurance companies can discriminate on many things including BMI (basically a measure of obesity) , history of tobacco smoking or other drug abuse, age, gender, self inflicted damage, etc...etc...ad infinitum. To me I don't understand why employers can't use the same common sense/statistics when deciding between two otherwise equaly competent applicants?
I would have NO hesitation in hiring or working with anyone no matter what religion/gender/race. And I would choose an obese person with a suitable personality over a healthy looking person who I felt would not work well in my group EVERYTIME. All I am admitting to is human nature. When all else appears to be equal I will choose someone that is not obese. So sue me.
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buksoon
Guest
That's honest, MS.
I just get so frustrated, ya know? I look at fat women (I am not one of 'em--just to make clear that it's not a personal thing) and feel like they just have it SOOOO hard in America.
Everyone talks about how minorities have a harder time of it, how they're rendered "invisible" in the media. Not comparatively. I mean, I can think of dozens of ethnic "minorities" on TV (the religion of America.) For women who don't fit the beauty ideal?? I can think of ... um, Camryn Manheim? And Camryn Manheim? And oh yeah Camryn Manheim.
The chicks on Friends would fuck every single black man in America before they let themselves gain 5 lbs, trust me.
And it saddens me. Because of how unnoticed the discrimination is, and how therefore ALLOWED it is.
Us ladies on the board don't necessarily see it. We're all fit--the insurance charts love us. But we have to be aware of it, I think.
I just get so frustrated, ya know? I look at fat women (I am not one of 'em--just to make clear that it's not a personal thing) and feel like they just have it SOOOO hard in America.
Everyone talks about how minorities have a harder time of it, how they're rendered "invisible" in the media. Not comparatively. I mean, I can think of dozens of ethnic "minorities" on TV (the religion of America.) For women who don't fit the beauty ideal?? I can think of ... um, Camryn Manheim? And Camryn Manheim? And oh yeah Camryn Manheim.
The chicks on Friends would fuck every single black man in America before they let themselves gain 5 lbs, trust me.
And it saddens me. Because of how unnoticed the discrimination is, and how therefore ALLOWED it is.
Us ladies on the board don't necessarily see it. We're all fit--the insurance charts love us. But we have to be aware of it, I think.
HappyScrappy
New member
buksoon said:
okay - in all honesty, I've only glanced over all the other posts but read the last one hoping that it would sort of sum up the recent discussion and I could then glean info from that.
but where the hell did the black man comment come from?!
now I have to read the other posts to see if this has some sort of structural relavence in this thread or not.
for the record, if given the chance, the cast of friends might very well fuck all the black men without any incentive
and they are larger now than they were a season or two ago when it was getting really stupid.
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buksoon
Guest
Hap Scrap, the thread was about discrimination. I said that discrimination was, in my opinion, a huge problem for fat women--bigger even than what we think of when we think of discrimination (so-called "minority group" members).
There have been amazing strides in that area. And yeah, maybe a little political correctness, where it becomes offensive to EVERYONE.
But discrimination to fat women? Where's the "fat pride" parade? Where's their protective legistation? Where's their representation in Hollywood (except to be made fun of and shamed)?
So all these people think they are so moral decrying the lack of ethnic representation on TV, and then they go and make a fat joke. Or it doesn't occur to them to hire a fat extra. Or whatever. AND THEY DON'T EVEN REALIZE.
Everyone on this thread was all: "I would never discriminate based on skin color... blah blah." But then you go to the Chat boards or wherever (or just step outside your front door) and the things said about fat women are cruel and DEEPLY discriminatory (not just in terms of salary issues, but in WHO THEY ARE). And no one notices.
It's 4 a.m. Can't sleep. Hope, but doubt, that made a semblance of sense.
There have been amazing strides in that area. And yeah, maybe a little political correctness, where it becomes offensive to EVERYONE.
But discrimination to fat women? Where's the "fat pride" parade? Where's their protective legistation? Where's their representation in Hollywood (except to be made fun of and shamed)?
So all these people think they are so moral decrying the lack of ethnic representation on TV, and then they go and make a fat joke. Or it doesn't occur to them to hire a fat extra. Or whatever. AND THEY DON'T EVEN REALIZE.
Everyone on this thread was all: "I would never discriminate based on skin color... blah blah." But then you go to the Chat boards or wherever (or just step outside your front door) and the things said about fat women are cruel and DEEPLY discriminatory (not just in terms of salary issues, but in WHO THEY ARE). And no one notices.
It's 4 a.m. Can't sleep. Hope, but doubt, that made a semblance of sense.
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buksoon
Guest
spatterson said:
Well then that's a shame. Wearing a robe and having the title "Your Honor" does not automatically = fairness and moral rectitude, though.
I edited a book last Spring on the Constitution for middle schoolers. The Supreme Court justices wrote these incredibly eloquent decisions that were pro-slavery and all that. ("The 'Negros' are proven to be intellectually lesser"....)
So just goes to show: law-makers can be BONEHEADS like the rest of us.
"So just goes to show: law-makers can be BONEHEADS like the rest of us"
Now that's plain truth for ya.
It's all good debate. For the record I would not discriminate against an obese woman. But I would discriminate against an obese job applicant (of any age/race/gender). Especially in my field of work where the actual work space is pretty tight. We have an obese employee in the lab and let me tell you it's damn hard to work in the same area. We can't exactly expand the labs.......Maybe some day when I have a web-cam I'll take a photo and show you the nature of the problem.
I have friends and family who are also obese. They are all lovely people and their obesity does not stop me from enjoying their company. In fact everyone of my close relatives is obese (mom, dad, brothers, aunts, cousins etc...) except me.
Now that's plain truth for ya.
It's all good debate. For the record I would not discriminate against an obese woman. But I would discriminate against an obese job applicant (of any age/race/gender). Especially in my field of work where the actual work space is pretty tight. We have an obese employee in the lab and let me tell you it's damn hard to work in the same area. We can't exactly expand the labs.......Maybe some day when I have a web-cam I'll take a photo and show you the nature of the problem.
I have friends and family who are also obese. They are all lovely people and their obesity does not stop me from enjoying their company. In fact everyone of my close relatives is obese (mom, dad, brothers, aunts, cousins etc...) except me.
wanderlusty
New member
hey, fat woman coming in
I think in some cases it's okay to descriminate against the obese, but only when their size impedes their ability to do their job. Really fat folks probably shouldn't be flight attendants because they couldn't fit down the aisles easily. However in MOST cases, size will not be an issue. I am fat, but I am also healthy and reasonably fit. I can leg press 275 lbs, keep my heart rate above 145bpm for 90 minutes, and pretty much any thing else your average woman could. I lift three times a week and do cardio 3-4 times. I am not sick very often, nor do I like to miss work. I am very intelligent, and provide high quality work. At my last job I got my work done three times as quickly as the other women.
Sadly, I will probably face discrimination. I may never realize it, I doubt a potential employer will ever say to me, "gosh, you're too fat for this desk job!" But I expect that I will be passed over. Fat women are not only mocked in our society, we are also invisible. I am automatically less interesting to people, I see it every day. This means networking is harder, impressing people is harder. Anything I do that might fall into fat stereotypes, is likely to be attributed to my innate nature (lazy fatty) rather than a one time incident.
Not that all this is impossible to over come. I think (hope) most people will look past my weight and give me a chance. I may have to work harder to get people's attention, but I still can. There are cases on the book, however, where the descrimination is blatant. Fat people as yet do not have much legal protection in most states. Some progress is made under disabilities law, but is obesity really a disability? Do we want to concede that as truth?
Anyways, in the case where the two employees are comepletely equal.. would you hire the fat one or the thin one? Well it's somewhat silly to argue because that is NEVER the case. Nobody is completely equal, at the very least, you jibe better with one than the other. I don't think you should hire somebody BECAUSE they are fat, but weight is also, for most professions, not a reason to NOT hire someone either.
I think in some cases it's okay to descriminate against the obese, but only when their size impedes their ability to do their job. Really fat folks probably shouldn't be flight attendants because they couldn't fit down the aisles easily. However in MOST cases, size will not be an issue. I am fat, but I am also healthy and reasonably fit. I can leg press 275 lbs, keep my heart rate above 145bpm for 90 minutes, and pretty much any thing else your average woman could. I lift three times a week and do cardio 3-4 times. I am not sick very often, nor do I like to miss work. I am very intelligent, and provide high quality work. At my last job I got my work done three times as quickly as the other women.
Sadly, I will probably face discrimination. I may never realize it, I doubt a potential employer will ever say to me, "gosh, you're too fat for this desk job!" But I expect that I will be passed over. Fat women are not only mocked in our society, we are also invisible. I am automatically less interesting to people, I see it every day. This means networking is harder, impressing people is harder. Anything I do that might fall into fat stereotypes, is likely to be attributed to my innate nature (lazy fatty) rather than a one time incident.
Not that all this is impossible to over come. I think (hope) most people will look past my weight and give me a chance. I may have to work harder to get people's attention, but I still can. There are cases on the book, however, where the descrimination is blatant. Fat people as yet do not have much legal protection in most states. Some progress is made under disabilities law, but is obesity really a disability? Do we want to concede that as truth?
Anyways, in the case where the two employees are comepletely equal.. would you hire the fat one or the thin one? Well it's somewhat silly to argue because that is NEVER the case. Nobody is completely equal, at the very least, you jibe better with one than the other. I don't think you should hire somebody BECAUSE they are fat, but weight is also, for most professions, not a reason to NOT hire someone either.
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