The Hall of Shame - Bookies Gone Bad

[hamstershaver]

2. The transfers go from the bettor to the bookie at the time the bets are placed. The bets are paid when the bookie (or a mod) settled the event. Then the Karma is paid out of the bookie's account. If you become a Platinum Member, the transfers that you make in the Karma Store are much cheaper. Plus, you can be a bookie too!

so you are saying if i made a 1000 pt bet the 1000pts is taken out of my account at the time of the bet and transferred to the bookies account? (am i correct in this what you are saying?)
that seems fine to me, thats how it is done in vegas
so on a 3-1 odds bet if the bookie already has your 1000pt bet that you have given him the payout back to you if you win should be 4000k pts (3000pts for the win plus your 1000pt original bet returned)
1-1 = 2000 (1000pt win + your 1000 original returned)
2-1 = 3000 (2000pt win + your 1000 original returned) etc. etc. etc.

now if i am correct in understanding you that the bookie gets your bet transferred into his account at the time you make the bet i assume there is someway you can include "juice" into the system which is what is done at all sports books

"juice" would only apply to bets with 2 teams involved where the odds were 1-1 on both sides or there was a point spread involved and you take one team or the other (patriots -6 over the dolphins for example) i am sure there will be A LOT of pt spread betting once fb starts. So if you liked the patriots -6 you would take them but give the bookie "juice" for taking your bet
the standard juice is 10% of your bet which is how bookies make money
so if you wanted to win 1000 you would need to bet 1100 (the extra 100 is the 10% juice), in other words bet 1100, and if you win, your return will be 2100 (your 1100 bet returned + the 1000 you win). if you lose, you lose 1100.

linesmakers try to make lines so that the public bets games right down the middle (half the money gets bet on one team, the other half on the other team) vegas wins this way because they collect the juice

To give an example of a perfect world for vegas and juice lets say half the money on a game is on one team and half on the other (a total of 220,000 was bet on the game 110,000 on each side) well with juice the gamblers have to bet 110,000 to win 100,000. Vegas wont care which side wins because they have to pay out 100,000 to the winner but they collect 110,000 from the side that loses (a profit of 10,000 the "juice"), i hope this makes sense its a little difficult to explain

i dont even know if you could incorporate juice into the system, but its something to think about

 

[pintoca]

maing, betting is complicated...

 

[Spartacus]

now I understand why my karma is going up beyond what's been given me.
I'm automatically banking bet karma.
then when the event settles I payout the win at the odds plus I suppose the amount of the original wager.
e.g. if someone wagers 1000 at 2-1 and wins
I payout 3000?

 

[swole]

if someone wagers 1000 at 2-1 and wins
I payout 3000?

yes

I have a 1:1 bet going which is simply double the original bet amount should it come through.

 

[hamstershaver]

now I understand why my karma is going up beyond what's been given me.
I'm automatically banking bet karma.
then when the event settles I payout the win at the odds plus I suppose the amount of the original wager.
e.g. if someone wagers 1000 at 2-1 and wins
I payout 3000?

yes exactly since you are getting the bet beforehand
im glad it its like that
and yes you would payback 3k if you lost the bet
nothing if you win since the k is already in your account, this is good since you dont have to hunt down welches that bet and wont pay you if they lose
now if somehow we can get juice involved it will be perfect

 

[hamstershaver]

i would assume this also means that you cant bet more k than you have in your account since it is transferred to the bookie at the time of the bet, thats also good, and i apologize to the guy i said was betting more than he had i didnt realize the karma went to the bookie at the time of the bet.

 

[George Spellwin]

so you are saying if i made a 1000 pt bet the 1000pts is taken out of my account at the time of the bet and transferred to the bookies account? (am i correct in this what you are saying?)
that seems fine to me, thats how it is done in vegas
so on a 3-1 odds bet if the bookie already has your 1000pt bet that you have given him the payout back to you if you win should be 4000k pts (3000pts for the win plus your 1000pt original bet returned)
1-1 = 2000 (1000pt win + your 1000 original returned)
2-1 = 3000 (2000pt win + your 1000 original returned) etc. etc. etc.

now if i am correct in understanding you that the bookie gets your bet transferred into his account at the time you make the bet i assume there is someway you can include "juice" into the system which is what is done at all sports books

"juice" would only apply to bets with 2 teams involved where the odds were 1-1 on both sides or there was a point spread involved and you take one team or the other (patriots -6 over the dolphins for example) i am sure there will be A LOT of pt spread betting once fb starts. So if you liked the patriots -6 you would take them but give the bookie "juice" for taking your bet
the standard juice is 10% of your bet which is how bookies make money
so if you wanted to win 1000 you would need to bet 1100 (the extra 100 is the 10% juice), in other words bet 1100, and if you win, your return will be 2100 (your 1100 bet returned + the 1000 you win). if you lose, you lose 1100.

linesmakers try to make lines so that the public bets games right down the middle (half the money gets bet on one team, the other half on the other team) vegas wins this way because they collect the juice

To give an example of a perfect world for vegas and juice lets say half the money on a game is on one team and half on the other (a total of 220,000 was bet on the game 110,000 on each side) well with juice the gamblers have to bet 110,000 to win 100,000. Vegas wont care which side wins because they have to pay out 100,000 to the winner but they collect 110,000 from the side that loses (a profit of 10,000 the "juice"), i hope this makes sense its a little difficult to explain

i dont even know if you could incorporate juice into the system, but its something to think about

This is a great post Hammy,

I'm learning more about bookmaking too. I'm a blackjack player after all.

We could build Juice into the system, but as you can imagine, there's a cost to all new features. We're working on a Poker Room, more things to buy in the Karma Store, and much more, but we do need to turn a profit from all this.

Can you think of ways we can make more money from the Karma Bookie? We've invested a lot in our new features and if we saw more return from them, we can further develop them.

 

[hamstershaver]

This is a great post Hammy,

I'm learning more about bookmaking too. I'm a blackjack player after all.

We could build Juice into the system, but as you can imagine, there's a cost to all new features. We're working on a Poker Room, more things to buy in the Karma Store, and much more, but we do need to turn a profit from all this.

Can you think of ways we can make more money from the Karma Bookie? We've invested a lot in our new features and if we saw more return from them, we can further develop them.

i really cant think of a way to make money off the karma bookie room, although i do hope once you make the hold em room it can turn a profit.
like i told you before i play poker at ultimate bet and people love to play poker.
i play almost exclusively with play chips there and ub gives your account 2000 play chips to start.
with time and good poker you can really build up your play chip account, mine is now at about 50 million.
they have a lot of bigger play tables at ub where the ante is 1000-2000 and the pots usually get up to about 75,000 every hand. in order to play these tables you need a lot of chips in your account.
and what some players would do after they got a good amount of chips is they would go sell them at ebay and you would be surprised how many people bought them. they would usually sell like 100,000 up to 1,000,000 at a time.
ub frowned on this and was able to stop people from doing it but they werent smart enough to make their own store at the ub site and have people buy play chips from them directly. why they dont do this is beyond me.
i think seeing this you may be able to get people to buy karma from your store in order to play at your tables if you are going to gamble with karma and not just make only real money tables. its at least something to think about

 

[hamstershaver]

i failed to mention how the ebay play chip selling worked.
once someone bought the chips, the seller would transfer them into the buyers account.
they have a chip transfer system set up there like your karma transfer system here, although ub doesnt take a percentage of the transfer.

 

[Rex]

Hammy: The Sam Rothstein of Elite's gambling world.