Testicular cancer survivors and AAS? Beginners cycle review

[platinumblue]

Hello forum!

This is my first post so I thought I'd come in with a bang! (long ass post
, enjoy the read )

I was diagnosed with testicular cancer about 5 years ago. Underwent radical orchiectomy(removal) of left testicle , followed by 3 cycles of "BEP" chemotherapy. Since then I'm going for regular bloodwork to keep an eye on possible relapse and/or secondary cancers.

My Question to you guys:
Are there any testicular cancer survivors here who are using or have used anabolic steroids? If so, does the gear in any way affect your "normal" bloodwork for testicular cancer in such a way your doc sees red lights?
Lastly : is it a bad idea to use gear after the o'l cancer thing?

I am considering using steroids but kinda worried about the only remaining nut. If anything goes wrong now, it's bye-bye nut hello TRT (trying to avoid that). Would love to hear from people in the same situation. If some of you are going :"Why the heck do you want to mess around with this and take risks after your ordeal?", my response is plain and simple... Why do YOU use steroids? I think our answers would be the same. Let's get BIG.

My stats :
26 years old, training for 8 years.
Height : 6'0"
Weight : 190lbs (207lbs prior to chemo, think I might have slightly less test now)
Bodyfat : no idea
Biceps : 16"
Training : Mon/Wed/Fri in the afternoon
Diet : Typical day... 3 egg whites + cup of oats + fruit, protein shake (48grams protein/60grams carbs), chicken breast/fish + veg and potatoes, 75g pasta + 2 slices of toast, training, protein shake, steak + rice + potatoes + mixed veg, protein shake.

Preliminary Cycle: (my first one)
Sustaplex 325 from Axio Labs (1X10ml vial)
Dianabol 10mg

Week 1-4 : 30mg (3 tabs) throughout the day
Week 1-10 : 1 ml Sustaplex on Sundays

PCT (21 days after last injection)
Clomid 50mg ED for 5 weeks
--------------or--------------------
Nolva 40mg ED for 14 days and then 20mg for 14-28 more days

I will be upping my caloric intake while "on" cycle. I've heard people say inject Sustaplex twice weekly (mon/thu) to keep levels more stable, would that be better? Also, I know 325mg/week is not really a lot, will I see OK gains from it, i.e. about 12lbs? I'm trying to keep doses low for now. Regarding PCT: which is better, clomid or nolva, or should I use both, if so, which dosages? Should I include Aromasin at all?

I read about the use of HCG but at this point I would like to avoid it due it being one of the "tumor markers" in my cancer screening bloodwork.

Any flaming/agreeing/critique/advice is most welcomed.

Thanx for reading

 

[goin on 4T]

What is your natty test levels?
Your PCT sux

clomid 25/25/25/25
forma
Phytoserms 347
DAA
Unleashed/post cycle

 

[platinumblue]

Thanx for the reply @goin on 4T . No idea what my test levels are atm. Doc didn't take baseline test prior to orchectomy either, so no way of comparing (I would've liked that)
Will be getting some testosterone bloodwork done in the near future.

Apart from the PCT everything else seem ok?

 

[goin on 4T]

Thanx for the reply @goin on 4T . No idea what my test levels are atm. Doc didn't take baseline test prior to orchectomy either, so no way of comparing (I would've liked that)
Will be getting some testosterone bloodwork done in the near future.

Apart from the PCT everything else seem ok?

Please get them done before you mess with any oral or injectable. That way you know what your normal is. I didn't and wished I had.
Welcome to the site, lots of good guys and gals here.
Please read as much as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app

 

[wootoom]

Welcome to the board and congrats on beating the cancer bro

 

[Balkan_x]

Agree with the others, get a base line and aim to get back to your normal afterwards. And maybe testing your test levels now will provide some valuable info re losing the one testicle.? If it were me, I'd closely monitor everything while on as well, liver, kidneys, lipid profiles etc. maybe even get a scan on the remaining testicle now, during and after. (Assuming that would find abnormalities?)

Provided i run with a proven, reliable and sensible stack, I really think I am the most at risk of bad health after cycle - so pct will VERY important for you as it is for everyone.

Re cancer returning no one can answer that, testosterone and other AAS are natural but powerful hormones - abuse it and sides are guaranteed. Run it properly and listen to the senior guys on this board, as well as doing your own research and you will avoid (nasty) side effects.

Silly question and a little off topic (maybe) - but do you know why/how you actually got the cancer? Do you lead a healthy lifestyle, any trauma to the area? Family history? Are you a smoker/drinker/drugs?

All of the above would need to be considered IMO. Keep researching, lots to learn.....

 

[musclei]

Regarding not wanting to go into TRT: dude, you just lost a testicle and are probably producing less testosterone than the average man already and if you have an interest in bodybuilding then you know you have to keep your testosterone high. Get that hormonal panel done and don't be surprised if your doctor or yourself decide that TRT is what's best for you well being or for your goals in this sport.

Now, regarding AAS having an effect on recurring cancer, I'm no doctor but I'm gonna go with NO. The reason is that testosterone or testosterone based anabolics don't induce cancer in the testicles. This might sound silly to say but it's in fact relevant since in some cases like with breast and ovarian cancer, estrogen does have an effect in developing a cancer and making it grow. Not the case with testosterone and any other organ including the testicles.

It's not like anabolics can't ever have any effect in a cancer either: there's a theory that AAS and specially HGH can not make a tumor appear but at least make it grow even though I don't think this has ever been proven in a study but the HGH part makes a lot of sense.

 

[stevesmi]

you better get bloods as 4t said before touching hormones so you know where you are at.

and also looking at your pic you have zero base, you won't get anywhere with steroids right now. build a base.

 

[platinumblue]

Thanx for all the replies so far! I really apreciate it!

@balkan_x - Silly question and a little off topic (maybe) - but do you know why/how you actually got the cancer? Do you lead a healthy lifestyle, any trauma to the area? Family history? Are you a smoker/drinker/drugs?
No one kows exactly. But.. In my teens I discovered I had varicocele veins(abnormal enlargement of the connecting veins)in my left testicle. On a routine check-up years before my diagnoses I mentioned this to my GP and I asked about surgery. He shot me down saying varicoceles pose no real health risk other than aesthetics. I have a theory that the 2 conditions are linked somehow. Apart from that, no family history of cancer, no trauma, very healthy lifestyle even for a 20 year old.

@musclei - Yes that makes sense man, especially this part --> It's not like anabolics can't ever have any effect in a cancer either: there's a theory that AAS and specially HGH can not make a tumor appear but at least make it grow even though I don't think this has ever been proven in a study but the HGH part makes a lot of sense.

@stevesmi - you better get bloods as 4t said before touching hormones so you know where you are at. and also looking at your pic you have zero base, you won't get anywhere with steroids right now. build a base.
Build a base?

 

[Labtec70]

Hi Platinumblue

"Build a base?"
Stevesmi means build yourself a muscular foundation naturally first. Okay, you're not thin and weedy, but you are very smooth and don't have enough muscular mass to make a steroid cycle viable for you. By eating right and enough, and doing a good training routine with plenty of compound movements: Deadlifts, Squats, Bench Press, Good Mornings, Pull-ups/chins, and Military Presses etc, you will quickly put on mass and get to your natural limit in a year or two. You are very young to consider anabolic steroids, and taking oral steroids like Dianabol and such like is going to take it out on your liver and kidneys, which will probably still be recovering from the bleomycin, etoposide, and platinum drugs, which are all very aggressive chemotherapy drugs. You should also get a lung function test done too to rule out respiratory problems that Etoposide can can affect.

Do you get any symptoms of low testosterone?
Low libido, night sweats, lethargy, depression, no morning woodies or few sexual thoughts, impotence, increased fat gain and/or decreased muscularity, poor concentration and mental clarity?
If you're getting two or more of the above symptoms you need to get your testosterone levels checked. Musclei says you might need to go on HRT. If you really are low on T then it does need treating. About 10%-20% of testicular cancer patients end up on therapy and it is nothing to be embarassed about. There's a hell of lot more at stake if you need it and don't get treated. There's a forum on Elite Fitness that is called something similar to: Andropause, TRT, HRT, and Masters' Bodybuilding.

At the end of the day, why do something that could cause you damage in an illegal fashion, when you could get it legally and monitored carefully. Okay, therapy doesn't involve athletic doses of AAS but it will hugely elevate your natural levels meaning you could easily grow 25lbs+ of solid fibrous muscle in twelve months of treatment. I'm not joking. If you are T deficient, with good training form, rest and diet, this is attainable.

Don't go half-arsed in to this it is a very serious step and even more serious given your previous medical history.

 

[platinumblue]

@labtec70 - Thank you sincerely for a very informative post.

Do you get any symptoms of low testosterone?
Low Libido, night sweats, lethargy, depression, no morning woodies or few sexual thoughts, impotence, increased fat gain and/or decreased muscularity, poor concentration and mental clarity?
*Lethargy - yes *Depression - Yes *Few sexual thoughts - Yes *Impotence - slight change in strength and duration..

Guess I should continue working on my diet, train hard, and get my T-levels, liver enzymes, respiratory/renal functions - checked before I go any further.......

Thanx goes out to all whom contributed thus far. Anyone else who would like to share anything or ask questions, please feel free.

 

[stevesmi]

yeah building a base means work out for a few years and build some muscle. you look like you don't workout in your pic, you are too raw .. no need for steroids right now at all

 

[Labtec70]

Hi Plat

You really do need to get your hormone levels checked if you've got some symptoms.
Secondly, I think I got it wrong...Bleomycin is the one that can affect lung function, but really most guys do okay unless you are a cardio/endurance athlete or cyclist. Still, better get it checked by your GP to get a handle on it befoe going hardcore in the gym.

 

[LoveSnatches]

Wow man unbelievable you had and survived cancer at our age (I'm 26 as well) Congratulations!

I have had a few medical issues setting me back from bulking up as much as I'd like - and I would love to run gear. Unfortunately no one with a decent rep has suggested such, just work on diet and training I'm 5'10 175 9% BF.

Someone mentioned that estrogen can contribute to cancer - but not test, yet test will aromatize to estrogen so I'm unsure as to this statement.

I have run some natural test boosters with good luck though, Testrol being one. DAA helped (I think, at least my GF said it did).

Have you looked into peptides? That's been what's keeping me up late at nights with my eyes glued to the computer screen researching.

 

[Pound4PoundAAS]

I use heavily and pass all my cancer screens. I have to be checked 2x/year since my cancer cleared. Just avoid orals or tren near your test.

 

[platinumblue]

@ lovesnatches - Thanx man! Appreciate it!

Yeah it's kinda tough to find decent help regarding juice. Most of the doctors here interrupt me mid-sentence with "DON'T USE IT!!, as soon I as mention the words "anabolics" or "steroids". Yet, at my local gym, I see firsthand how guys aged +-20 buy some Dbols, a vial of Sustaplex, and off they go. 70% of them have no idea what PCT even is. This one guy went on to win an amatuer bodybuilding contest after one of such cycle (he gained 8kg consuming 4500 cals/day). Get this...NO PCT whatsoever. The sides he mentioned : acne, increased sex-drive (really??) and testicular atrophy. Somehow he isn't worried too much because "more experienced" juicers at the gym said don't worry, they will become their normal size real soon! I simply went WTF.

As far as I know the only cancer and estrogen link is with breast cancer. Testosterone and cancer are in turn linked with prostate cancer. But the studies I've found on that too, are pretty mixed :

Higher serum free testosterone is associated with an increased risk of prostate cancer: results from the Baltimore longitudinal study on aging. J. Kellogg Parsons, H. Ballentine Carter, Patricia Landis, E. James Wright, Elizabeth Platz, E. Jeffrey Metter.
--and--
No causal relationship found between testosterone replacement therapy and prostate cancer or heart disease risk. A retrospective analysis by researchers at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center (BIDMC) published in The New England Journal of Medicine
Guess the TRT sections will shed more light on this.

Regarding natural test boosters : I've tried herbal ones like ZMA, Tribulus, Testoblast, etc. Didn't really see or feel any big difference. Marginal strength gains(placebo effect?) and better sleep..
In my current situation I wouldn't opt for something like that even if it worked really well. Just don't want to put too much strain on the only remaining trooper by forcing it to make more test.

What about these peptides you mentioned? Can you give me a good link or something?

 

[platinumblue]

@ Pound4PoundAAS - "I use heavily and pass all my cancer screens. I have to be checked 2x/year since my cancer cleared. Just avoid orals or tren near your test"

Finally a fellow survivor! Congrats bro! Few Questions... What type of cancer? What kind of treatment? How old when diagnosed/cleared? What gear are you running/doses?

Would love to get some feedback.

 

[LoveSnatches]

GHRPs!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using EliteFitness

 

[platinumblue]

Yeah I thought about ditching the laziness so I googled peptides... Very interesting! Further reading showed a connection between cancer growth and Human Growth Hormone.... Man, how I HATE that C-word....

Thought I'd share what I found:
We all know the benefits of Growth Hormone from a bodybuilding standpoint. Basically it does what the name says, it makes you grow. There are many different mechanism as to how it accomplish this[increasing protein synthesis capabilities, increasing the amount of insulin a person can use effectively, and the release of Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1) which increases cell-division and even creates new muscle cells, hailed as the "Rolls-Royce of muscle building hormones"] Problem comes in when an imbalance is created. Anytime insulin to glucose, testosterone to estrogen, HGH to IGF-1, or any other ratio gets out of balance in human physiology, illness seems to happen. It's only natural. When it comes to cancer, a high level of insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) appears to be the culprit when IGF-1 : HGH ratios are out of whack.

When I continued reading it seemed that this wasn't really the case. Research show that robust levels of HGH just may prevent many cancers. The problem as mentioned above is mainly IGF-1. But why? The problem lies not with IGF-1 as a stand-alone hormone, but in the IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3), better stated: the lack thereof. When THIS ratio of IGF-1 : IGFBP-3 is upset, the shit could hit the fan:

Researchers announced that, in a six-year study of 32,826 nurses, those with the highest levels of IGF-1 had a two-and- a-half times greater risk of colorectal cancer.
------on the flipside-------
High levels of IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) produced the opposite effect. Taken from the Department of Nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health

In the case of those with the highest IGF-1 and lowest IGFBP-3, the relative risk of colorectal cancer rose fourfold, after accounting for differences in weight, height, alcohol intake, and other known risk factors. OK so what do we know now? Let's recap. An increase of Human growth hormone leads to an increase of IGF-1. When IGF-1 levels are increased so much that its ratio to one of it's binding proteins: IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) become too big, cancer risks increase. Almost all (>95%) of serum IGF-1 circulates bound to specific IGF binding proteins (IGFBPs), of which six classes (IGFBPs 1-6) have been identified. BP3 is thought to be the major binding protein.

Now we have to look at the peptide itself, available for purchase for use in bodybuilding. I'ts called - IGF-1 LR3
The goal when injecting the peptide is to skip the part being precursed and released due to the release of Human Growth Hormone, and to be made readily available for use by the body. This is how its done : “Long R3 IGF-1 is signifacantly more potent than IGF-1. The enhanced potency is due to the decreased binding of Long R3 IGF-1 to all known IGF binding proteins. These binding proteins normally inhibit the biological actions of IGF’s.”

So they purposefully made it to be bound less by IGF binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3)? Didn't we just see that when this ratio of IGF-1:IGFBP-3 is disrupted it creates a high-risk cancer environment as the studies above prove?

I might be missing some serious point here on the workings of IGF-1 LR3 and its binding proteins, or it looks seriously dangerous.

Can someone call a peptide-guy?

 

[LoveSnatches]

Hmm my local supp shop is owned by a pro and he was uncertain with the Ghrps as well because of the lack of research. He uses hgh I'm sure.

Damn that c word changes everything with this. Anything exogenous could theoretically cause cancer. You are good at your research I'm a little jealous even with a BS in psych.

 

[musclei]

Someone mentioned that estrogen can contribute to cancer - but not test, yet test will aromatize to estrogen so I'm unsure as to this statement.

Estrogen contributes to breast and uterus cancer but I hope you don't have any of those.