Taking a week off??

[Half_Natty]

When I was training natty i would usually take a week off or have a de-load week every 8-10 weeks to help my CNS.

Do you need to do this when you are taking AAS or is it not necessary due to the drugs?

Im in my last week of PCT after a 12 week course, so totaling in 16 weeks of training without a week off and im feeling pretty tired in myself. I can still get mysef to the gym no problem but I just feel sluggish and worn down a bit.
I know most of this will be due to the clomid/nolva/anastrozole but do you think its your CNS thats worn out a bit as well?

Any thoughts would be appreciated as my next course im planning to do is 16 weeks, 22 weeks counting PCT.

 

[Stackinplates]

Time off is very beneficial

I just can't do it
Mentally it messes with me

I just recently took off 4 days and it felt like a month !

But it's very good to take time off! on cycle though I would not take time off unless ur injured or ur cycle is long and u feel overtrained

Also time off on pct is not wise cuz u wanna keep ur gains and not let ur body think u don't need that new muscle by not lifting

 

[Stackinplates]

Ur prob feeling like that cuz ur pct did not get your test levels up where they need to be ! Imo it's hormone related and something is off ...

How many days a week are u lifting ?

If ur hitting 6 try taking just weekends off ! Good massage epson salt bath and relax whenever you're not lifting his key!

 

[Half_Natty]

Ur prob feeling like that cuz ur pct did not get your test levels up where they need to be ! Imo it's hormone related and something is off ...

How many days a week are u lifting ?

If ur hitting 6 try taking just weekends off ! Good massage epson salt bath and relax whenever you're not lifting his key!

I lift two days on and one off I've always have done it that way due to work.
Yeah I dont enjoy taking a week off either so I mainly do a de-load week. I seem to have less energy when I dont train!
I'll keep going for a few more weeks and clear my PCT before I do think about taking any time off then, thanks.
Doesn't sound good that! Im booked in for my bloods in 2 weeks so I should know more then. Libido is fine and im sleeping pretty well, i work shifts as well, usually 2 night shifts, 1 day off, 2 day shifts and repeat, so that could be playing a part in it all do you think?

 

[Stackinplates]

Yea could just be tired in general man!

But honestly libido and sleeping well does not mean shit!

My test levels were at 192 before I got on Trt and I could have sex with my wife 4 times a day easy! Slept like a rock too.


What happens most times guys think because of certain symptoms that means there pct worked but in all actuality only real way t know is bloods !

Ur on the right track though!

Please let us know about ur bloods

Ur levels could just be fine though

Hard to tell we just gotta see

 

[Stackinplates]

BTW with two days on one day off ur getting PLENTY of rest imo!

I hit 2 a days often when I cut and I train 6 days a week only Sunday off

 

[Half_Natty]

Now you've got me worried Ha! I'll post an update as soon as my bloods come back. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if I can move my appointment up. I'm lucky because where I live we have this place called the PUMP Clinic which is run by the NHS mainly for steroid users and some other things.

 

[Stevewc1]

I was told as a youngster after going hard for 3-4 months, it's good to take a week off. It's great for your joints, tendons and even your nervous system. If you feel guilty do maybe 3 days of cardio during that week for 20-30 minutes. Your body will thank you.

 

[ALIN]

When I was training natty i would usually take a week off or have a de-load week every 8-10 weeks to help my CNS.

Do you need to do this when you are taking AAS or is it not necessary due to the drugs?

Im in my last week of PCT after a 12 week course, so totaling in 16 weeks of training without a week off and im feeling pretty tired in myself. I can still get mysef to the gym no problem but I just feel sluggish and worn down a bit.
I know most of this will be due to the clomid/nolva/anastrozole but do you think its your CNS thats worn out a bit as well?

Any thoughts would be appreciated as my next course im planning to do is 16 weeks, 22 weeks counting PCT.

Its a GREAT idea to take break especially after long durations of intense training. The rest can be very beneficial.
I have found with myself and others I train a week off is just about perfect 2 weeks MAX. The mind and body tend to
get a little lazy from that 2wk point and beyond.

 

[bigorse]

similar to stacking i juat came off 4 days rest (due to sickness) and my body is loving me for it. my strength is up, i feel better and i look better! yes i wanted to train like crazy those 4 days but in the long run i think it will do me a world of good. deadlifts had fallen to 440lbs for a single after 4 days off i pulled 485lbs for a single which is an equal pr for me. and last time i pulled 485lbs it was after a holiday where i trained like 4 times in 2 weeks like a year ago... so that just goes to show how vital rest is.

 

[George Spellwin]

Time off is very beneficial

I just can't do it
Mentally it messes with me

I just recently took off 4 days and it felt like a month !

But it's very good to take time off! on cycle though I would not take time off unless ur injured or ur cycle is long and u feel overtrained

Also time off on pct is not wise cuz u wanna keep ur gains and not let ur body think u don't need that new muscle by not lifting

I will take a week off every now and then, but I kind of feel like it messes with me mentally too. Either it's hard to get back in the gym after my week off and breaking the routine, or it feels like I'm going to be way weaker the first week back (just a mental thing).

 

[Vast]

When I train hard for 15-16 weeks with no break I get sick and am forced to take a week off. It's very good for you in the long run even though your ego/mind go a little crazy lol

 

[Zinergy]

Do you need to do this when you are taking AAS or is it not necessary due to the drugs?

Yes even more so.

 

[Half_Natty]

Quick update, got my bloods done yesterday, results should be coming to me on Monday.
Can i post the results up here so I can get a bit of insight from you guys as well?

 

[Stackinplates]

Hell yes post them up! Bloods are great to see especially so new guys can learn more

 

[Half_Natty]

Ok, got a phonecall today with my results but I was out so no pen and paper handy. Results are being posted to me as well so should be here in a couple of days. But this is what he told me on the phone;
Kidney Function - Elevated level of creatine. (I supplement with it everyday)
Liver Function - Normal
Cholesterol - 5.6 (said it should be under 5)
HDL - A little under 1
LH - A little high (he did say for the HDL and LH that the fact I got my bloods done the day after I stopped the Clomid and Nolva could of made those a little inacurate)
Estrogen Levels - Low
Test Levels - In the high end of the normal ranges.

I will post all the proper figures up when they arrive. But all in all it doesnt look to shabby, well on the way to recovery.

 

[Stackinplates]

How long after pct did u get ur bloods done ? Did u have pre cycle bloods done ?

 

[Half_Natty]

I got them the day after I finished my PCT. No unfortunatly I didnt get them done before I started my cycle so I have nothing to compare my results to.

 

[Half_Natty]

Ok my proper results just arrived in the post, the figures in bold are mine and the figures in italics are the reference ranges. The letters are the units of measurement. These are my 1st bloods so any insight would be great.

Cholesterol 5.6 mmol/L 0.0 - 4.0
High Density Cholesterol 0.84 mmol/L
LDL Cholesterol 3.98 mmol/L 0.0 - 2.0
Follicle Simulating Hormone 9.3 IU/L 1.5 - 12.4
Lutenising Hormone 14.2 IU/L 1.7 - 8.6
Oestradiol 86 pmol/L 99 - 192
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 48 nmol/L 15 - 47
Testosterone 26.6 nmol/L 10.0 - 35.0
Prolactin 209 mU/L 86 - 324

 

[DocToxin8]

Your pituitary and hypothalamus has recovered well I see. (LH count is high, FSH is high normal)
Testes also function.

Lipids, well that should've been better. Should do a apolipoprotein check as well. Supplements to help with the cholesterol imbalance include Milk Thistle(silymarin) & taurine. Would be prudent to use some 75mg aspirin ED to help with the apolipoproteins as well as reduce plaque formation. (Atherosclerosis)

If creatinine is high, it all depends how high. Somewhat high is OK 'cause both creatine supp's and increased muscle mass contribute to this. Too high and your kidneys are at risk.

 

[DocToxin8]

The high SHBG means u can feel symptoms of low test regardless of high total test. Check free test levels. Suspect it's not a problem since SHBG isn't really that elevated.

You'll need a new blood test later when the SERMs are out of your system to see if LH stays good. But you'll also need to check up the lipid profile later to see if it normalizes.

 

[Stackinplates]

Bloods look great man except lipids and shbg the shbg can cause libido issues are u having any ?

Congrats on a good recovery !!

Lipids are outta wack

Policosanol is a natural supplement derived from sugar cane.

It's phenomenal for lipids !!!

Research it works every time !!!

My bloods proved it time and time again if u running with cycle u will have no issues

 

[Stackinplates]

How long post cycle were ur bloods taken ?

 

[Zinergy]

What were you taking, any hcg or clomid when the test was taken, that fsh and lh is too good for natural.


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[DocToxin8]

Yes even more so.

Good advice.
When training hard you will need breaks now and then. I do this often by just skipping workouts so I'll get 3-4 days of rest.
Rest days should incorporate light activity like going for a walk, light jogging, etc. This is to keep the blood flowing and to calm the CNS (nervous system) to recover. If you look at what the humanoid body is adapted to, it's bouts of hard activity followed by constant light activity.

(LONG RANT, just skip this

I like to use the Neanderthals as examples for BBrs, since they were of equal or a little shorter stature than h. Sapiens, but weighed roughly 20kgs (>40 pounds) more than H. Sapiens. This weight was due to a more compact skeleton (all joints were about twice our size) and more muscle. Neanderthals did crossbreed with early humans on several occasions, and Neanderthal DNA is preserved in some European people very clearly.
OK, I'll stop myself now, cause this can be a long topic.
Suffice it to say, that Neanderthals were like modern humans on hGH & AAS. And some parallels between how they lived and a bodybuilding lifestyle can be drawn.
The point was rest; so take this example;
They went out hunting for big game like mammoths with spear made for thrusting, not throwing since it would be difficult to penetrate their thick skin. So they used a LOT of force. After that they ate meat and relaxed, walking around some in terrain (light activity), and rested until the next round of explosive activity.

Ok, this was a long rant and more than a little beside the point.

 

[DocToxin8]

The LH value reflect that he still has SERMs in his system, (and cause the estrogen was so low) but it's a good sign it's so high.
I'm also very interested to hear if and when you used hCG relative to when the blood work was done.

 

[Stackinplates]

What were you taking, any hcg or clomid when the test was taken, that fsh and lh is too good for natural.


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That's what I was thinking

Think the pct is still lingering !

It's above normal this is not typical at all post cycle unless pct meds were used

If I remember correctly u did hcg 500 iu 2x week

Think I remember us talking about somthing like that

 

[Stackinplates]

Good advice.
When training hard you will need breaks now and then. I do this often by just skipping workouts so I'll get 3-4 days of rest.
Rest days should incorporate light activity like going for a walk, light jogging, etc. This is to keep the blood flowing and to calm the CNS (nervous system) to recover. If you look at what the humanoid body is adapted to, it's bouts of hard activity followed by constant light activity.

(LONG RANT, just skip this

I like to use the Neanderthals as examples for BBrs, since they were of equal or a little shorter stature than h. Sapiens, but weighed roughly 20kgs (>40 pounds) more than H. Sapiens. This weight was due to a more compact skeleton (all joints were about twice our size) and more muscle. Neanderthals did crossbreed with early humans on several occasions, and Neanderthal DNA is preserved in some European people very clearly.
OK, I'll stop myself now, cause this can be a long topic.
Suffice it to say, that Neanderthals were like modern humans on hGH & AAS. And some parallels between how they lived and a bodybuilding lifestyle can be drawn.
The point was rest; so take this example;
They went out hunting for big game like mammoths with spear made for thrusting, not throwing since it would be difficult to penetrate their thick skin. So they used a LOT of force. After that they ate meat and relaxed, walking around some in terrain (light activity), and rested until the next round of explosive activity.

Ok, this was a long rant and more than a little beside the point.

Bro if my wife heard ya use this analogy she would freak !!

I'm always saying well back in the day
Cavemen ate all natural and worked there ass off to hunt and provide then rested through the evening wile the are their kill

I always use the " back in the day " term

Romans
Greeks
Cavemen

U get the point

All jacked and working their ass off !!

Don't get me started

Because of the all natural diet im sure all hormones were in optimal range ! Now a days shit food is all over !!! Even if u try to eat clean it's hard

 

[Half_Natty]

DocToxin8 I havn't got numbers for my apolipoproteins but my total protien was 74 g/L. Says it should be 60-80. I'll pick up some milk thistle first thing monday morning, didn't know that could help my coll so thanks. I supplemnt with 5g taurine and 5g of creatine everyday as well. I'm going to wait about 4 weeks and then go back and get some fresh tests once the SERMs are gone. I think im going to take next week off the gym and do some light cardio just so I dont go too crazy doing nothing! Interesting stuff on the neaderthals as well. Makes sense. My whole cycle was 1-12 weeks of sus @ 750mg pw
1-10 weeks of NPP @ 300mg pw
I started HCG at 1000iu's pw spead over 3 injections, weeks 12-15
Then Clomid 100/100/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Stackin, libido seems fine, nothing out of the ordinary for myself. I'll have a look into Policosanol thanks for the heads up how much did you take per day? Just had a quick scan on google and they come in a few different mg's. My bloods were taken the day after I finished PCT, I finished my cycle 7, nearly 8 weeks now.

I take it theres nothing I should be worried about from these numbers then, just need to work on getting my cholesterol down and sorting my lipids. Go back in a few weeks for a fresh test and touch wood everything should be good no?

Judging by these results how long would you wait before doing another cycle? going on the time on = time off rule i could go back on in 4 weeks time? Is it worth waiting a bit longer or should I just see what my next set of bloods say?

Apreciate everyones input, thanks guys you never fail to produce!

 

[DocToxin8]

Total protein (serum) ain't related to apolipoprotein balance, it's a measure of total protein in the blood, which is mainly albumin and immunoglobulins. Low counts can reflect liver disease as albumin is produced in the liver. Ratio of albumin:immunoglobulins can reflect infection.

Your numbers are fine for so close to PCT, although you need to be a little careful about the lipid profile. For a cycle without c17-alkylated orals they are somewhat affected. Might be the contribution from the AI.
All will be fine, just take care.
Some cardio seems great, just don't overdo it.
(High cardio can lead to suppression of mTOR activation, preventing muscle growth. This is more relevant to the topic: can you be both very big and strong and still be a marathon runner?)

 

[Zinergy]

Easy on the cardio for now, and test by itself will destroy lipid profiles. Creatine kinase will be high just because you're training which is normal. I wouldn't do anything just stop eating shit foods to help your cholesterol.

Once the serms and hcg clear fully you will crash for a little until your body picks up again.



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[Half_Natty]

Total protein (serum) ain't related to apolipoprotein balance, it's a measure of total protein in the blood, which is mainly albumin and immunoglobulins. Low counts can reflect liver disease as albumin is produced in the liver. Ratio of albumin:immunoglobulins can reflect infection.

Your numbers are fine for so close to PCT, although you need to be a little careful about the lipid profile. For a cycle without c17-alkylated orals they are somewhat affected. Might be the contribution from the AI.
All will be fine, just take care.
Some cardio seems great, just don't overdo it.
(High cardio can lead to suppression of mTOR activation, preventing muscle growth. This is more relevant to the topic: can you be both very big and strong and still be a marathon runner?)

Ahh ok, im sorry you'll have to bare with me, im starting to realise I havn't done enough reasearch on AAS as I thought.....
my Albumin levels were 44 g/L ref range is 34-48
Bilirubin levels were 7 umol/L ref range is 0-22
I'll stick to to a bit of light cardio for now then thanks.

I forgot to mention I ran clen for the first two weeks of my pct. Tapered up from 40mcg pd to 120mcg and back down to 40mcg again. Will this be a factor for the lipids do you think?

 

[DocToxin8]

I've searched the literature on whether Clen would effect lipids, since beta antagonists certainly do. My findings this far are either no it doesn't, or it might (by beta 3 activation) be slightly beneficial.
However, so far I think no, it doesn't in normal circumstances.

Your bilirubin is very OK, no jaundice for you.

Thank you very much for sharing your blood work (with a timeline), it's to the benefit of us all.

 

[Stackinplates]

I would keep cardio to under 15 min and would not take a week off so close to pct !!! I would drop a training day or two but don't stop and take a week off u need to keep those fibers stimulated

As far as a dose 20 mg a day is good if u get bloods done and it helped a tad u can up it to 40

I start at 40 if my lipids are outta wack bad and drop it down after a bit to 20

 

[Half_Natty]

I've searched the literature on whether Clen would effect lipids, since beta antagonists certainly do. My findings this far are either no it doesn't, or it might (by beta 3 activation) be slightly beneficial.
However, so far I think no, it doesn't in normal circumstances.

Your bilirubin is very OK, no jaundice for you.

Thank you very much for sharing your blood work (with a timeline), it's to the benefit of us all.

Probably the anastrozole then if not the clen. I have been eating 4 whole eggs a day so im going to lay off them for a bit until things drop back down to where they should be.

Not a problem, happy to be able to contruibte to the forum, even if it is in a barage of questions from me ha!

 

[Half_Natty]

I would keep cardio to under 15 min and would not take a week off so close to pct !!! I would drop a training day or two but don't stop and take a week off u need to keep those fibers stimulated

As far as a dose 20 mg a day is good if u get bloods done and it helped a tad u can up it to 40

I start at 40 if my lipids are outta wack bad and drop it down after a bit to 20

Ok ill hold of on the week off then, I do feel better than I was when I first posted this thread so i dont feel like im in any rush to take time off.

Shopping tomoroow, I have a cool little herablist shop in my town so im sure they'll stock it in there.

 

[Half_Natty]

Lipids, well that should've been better. Should do a apolipoprotein check as well. Supplements to help with the cholesterol imbalance include Milk Thistle(silymarin) & taurine. Would be prudent to use some 75mg aspirin ED to help with the apolipoproteins as well as reduce plaque formation. (Atherosclerosis)

Picked up some milk thistle and aspirin today, the aspirin are 300mg so should i just take 150mg eod or is it fine ed?

 

[Zinergy]

Picked up some milk thistle and aspirin today, the aspirin are 300mg so should i just take 150mg eod or is it fine ed?

If you lift, DON'T take aspirin.

anti-inflammatory drugs have no place for athletes.

And save your money on milk thistle, its useless, the only thing that helps your liver is time off from strain.

 

[Half_Natty]

Ahh well it's already been bought now so I may as well use it, supposed to help digestion as well.
I read a study on aspirin where they took it for 8 days and their cortisol levels had dropped and their test had boosted. Anything more than 8 days and the effects were reversed and it blocked protein synthesis

 

[DocToxin8]

If you lift, DON'T take aspirin.

anti-inflammatory drugs have no place for athletes.

And save your money on milk thistle, its useless, the only thing that helps your liver is time off from strain.

I strongly disagree.
Aspirin in small doses (75mg ED) will not inhibit COX enzymes in the muscles to any degree, but being an irreversible inhibitor of thromboxan A2 it will have an impact on coagulation. It could also help with apolipoprotein balance.

Milk Thistle won't replace rest between cycles but it's the liver protectant aside from NAC & SAMe I have seen the most studies that show it affects lipid profile favorably, as well as being a liver protectant.

 

[DocToxin8]

But yes, high doses of aspirin or other COX inhibitors are another matter. But if your gonna go that road then avoid NAC as well since I saw one small study on if lowering effects of resistance excersize.