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Superstud takes a break from the NFL to become a Ranger. Hooah!

MattTheSkywalker said:


I think he was referring to the looming strike threat.

While the labor conditions in baseball may be unfavorable compared to some unions, most fans really don't care. McGwire and Bonds may have helped bring baseball back to popularity but the 1994 strike left deep wounds. McGwire is long gone and the impending steroid revelations are not going to help the credibility of many of today's stars.

If they do it again it will decimate the sport. People simply cannot imagine "unfair" labor conditions for people who make an average of $2 million per year to play baseball.

Rudedawg I know you've been in the majors, and that's awesome, but how seriously can anyone take A-Rod (or anyone else for that matter) complaining about labor conditions, as he did on ESPN this morning?

The NBA and NFL have a cap. This is because they have national league-wide TV contracts and split up the advertising dollars equally based on those revenues. Baseball cannot attract the same type of high dollar advertising money, except in a few markets.

The shitty NBA teams of yesterday (Nets, Kings) are awesome. Even the LA Clips are coming back. The once-shitty Rams are the NFL's best team the last 3 years. How lousy were the Bucs and Packers in the 80's? They are two of the league's better team the last few years.

This is due to the cap creating long-term fairness in those sports, which means any team can build up and break through. This creates excitement in all markets, which means advertisers can expect a return on their investment everywhere.

Baseball players sadly don't seem to understand this. The national pastime is past its time.

I think most of the players do understand what is happening or is going to happen to baseball if it is not turned around and soon. But they are not going to let the owners (who keep opening their pocketbooks) take complete control of the game. A-Rod shouldn't say a word about anything that has anything to do with contracts or labor relations. He is by far in a no win situation. Is it A-Rod's fault that Tom Hicks is a dumbass business man?????? Should he have turned the offer down? Would anyone else have in A-Rod's shoes? HELL NO!!!!!

What everyone needs to do is read this link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/2002/special/owners_players/

Educate yourself on what each side wants and what they can do to meet somewhere in the middle. This sounds like big bad baseball players are only out for themselves doesn't it??????? This shows that baseball players want an even playing field.


THE OWNERS SAY
"We need more of it. If our richer teams give some percentage of their revenues to our poorer teams -- not from all of their revenues, mind you, just a percentage from the local revenues -- teams will be on more of an equal financial footing and competition, theoretically, will improve. It helps everyone.

THE PLAYERS SAY:
We're all for improving the ability of the small-revenue teams to pay. But not if it's going to hinder the ability of the big-revenue teams to shell out mega-deals to mega-stars. And we don't want to reward poorly managed teams by handing them revenue-sharing checks.

WHAT"S AHEAD
This may be the biggest sticking point in the negotiations. At last look, owners wanted to up the revenue shared from $186 million to $253 million, with each team basically kicking in half of its local revenues. Players countered with a plan that would up the percentage from its current 20 percent to about 22.5 percent. The two sides differ on what formula should be used to distribute the money, too. Owners want the money to be evenly divided among all the teams. PLAYERS want something that gets more money to the more needy teams. "


BTW it is the OWNERS not the PLAYERS who want contraction!
 
Hey Rudedawg..

yes that is what I meant. I was talking about the possibility of a strike by the baseball players association.

While I do empathize to what you're saying and I have read that SI article before online, I agree with Matty that if baseball would just open its eyes a little, that there is a possibility that with a cap, the game would grow MORE!

How? Well lets take the average sports fan in America. Joe Fan usually loves the major sports..Baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

When its THAT respective sport's season, Joe Fan watches. Sometimes seasons overlap (NBA playoffs during baseball season...basketball during football season etc.) and Joe Fan has to decide if he's gonna drop this week's paycheck on the Bulls Game or the Bears game or the White Sox, or the Cubbies..

Decisions, decisions....but wait, if baseball continues to be this selfish (owners AND players) Joe Fan will spend his money on the Bulls game. Hey, the Bulls suck now, but at least they can compete and possibly grow one day to be strong again via draft picks and smart free agent signings.... and this is possible how? A salary cap--just like Matty said.

A salary cap allows revenue sharing and a decent balance of money power within the professional league. Allowing teams, to stay competitive, to give their fans in their respective city the hope that even though times might be bad now, they wont be forever as long as smart choices are made with Free agents and draft picks. Because the money will be there...it will always be there.

With baseball, some teams are lucky if they can pay their grounds crew..
 
Kakdiesel said:
Hey Rudedawg..

yes that is what I meant. I was talking about the possibility of a strike by the baseball players association.

While I do empathize to what you're saying and I have read that SI article before online, I agree with Matty that if baseball would just open its eyes a little, that there is a possibility that with a cap, the game would grow MORE!

How? Well lets take the average sports fan in America. Joe Fan usually loves the major sports..Baseball, basketball, football, and hockey.

When its THAT respective sport's season, Joe Fan watches. Sometimes seasons overlap (NBA playoffs during baseball season...basketball during football season etc.) and Joe Fan has to decide if he's gonna drop this week's paycheck on the Bulls Game or the Bears game or the White Sox, or the Cubbies..

Decisions, decisions....but wait, if baseball continues to be this selfish (owners AND players) Joe Fan will spend his money on the Bulls game. Hey, the Bulls suck now, but at least they can compete and possibly grow one day to be strong again via draft picks and smart free agent signings.... and this is possible how? A salary cap--just like Matty said.

A salary cap allows revenue sharing and a decent balance of money power within the professional league. Allowing teams, to stay competitive, to give their fans in their respective city the hope that even though times might be bad now, they wont be forever as long as smart choices are made with Free agents and draft picks. Because the money will be there...it will always be there.

With baseball, some teams are lucky if they can pay their grounds crew..

If you read it then you would realize that with a good revenue sharing plan in place they don't need to have a salary cap.

If you open up a Burger King on XYZ corner and gross $1billion and I open up one on ABC corner and gross $500 million should you give me $250 million so that we are equal?

What if you hired the BEST fast food manager (LOL) around and he is a huge reason that your shop is flourishing and I continue to hire the HS graduate that worked his way up from fry cook. Should you continue to give me money because I won't hire a good manager?

What if your store is in an area that has a population of 500K and mine is in a rural area with a pop of 50K? Should you not be allowed to have a higher payroll than mine?


You forgot to mention Hockey overlapping EVERY other season.

In regards to the teams barely being able to pay their grounds crew.......... don't you think there is a reason the owners won't open up their books? Take the avg attendance times the avg ticket price times 82 for any team and let me know what you come up with. And these owners are the same ones that keep shelling out the cash aren't they? Yet they keep crying about how much money they lose don't they? And also every team that has been sold has been sold for a hell of a lot more than what was paid for it. Why is that? Why would a smart businessman/woman/group buy something that was going to LOSE money? These people that buy these teams aren't Joe Schmoes? They are very successful business people.
 
I forgot to add.......look at the standings right now:

Minnesota (ya the small market team that was going to be contracted) is in 1st place by 7.5 games.

Montreal (the other team that was to be contracted) is in 2nd place.

Cincinnati........ 2nd place in the same division with perennial LOSER but a large market team Chicago who is in 5th place and is 12.5 games out.

Anaheim is in 2nd place with the 4th best record in the AL.
 
rudedawg said:


If you read it then you would realize that with a good revenue sharing plan in place they don't need to have a salary cap.

If you open up a Burger King on XYZ corner and gross $1billion and I open up one on ABC corner and gross $500 million should you give me $250 million so that we are equal?

What if you hired the BEST fast food manager (LOL) around and he is a huge reason that your shop is flourishing and I continue to hire the HS graduate that worked his way up from fry cook. Should you continue to give me money because I won't hire a good manager?

What if your store is in an area that has a population of 500K and mine is in a rural area with a pop of 50K? Should you not be allowed to have a higher payroll than mine?


Your examples only highlight why baseball is behind the other sports.

The NBA and NFL have league-wide, nationwide, TV contracts, and the players are "entitled" to a percentage thereof. (This is the cap).

The teams can then do other stuff on the side (As Jerry Jones did - the league was pissed but they couldn't stop him). Likewise, teh Bulls with MJ were far more marketable than the Clips at the same time. But it didn't take TV money from the Clips. The TV money was league money, not team money.

In your example, each BK would get X dollars from the corporation, and then do whatever they want to earn more, but the original X would still be there. So some BK's (teams) are more valuable than others, but all can compete. (Ask the Clips, Kings and Nets)


Here is where baseball struggles: they can't get a similar contract. The interest isn't there in a lot of markets. Therefore, teams like the Yanks go out and get huge cable deals, while the Expos, Twins, Royals, etc. get contraction talks.

And it might just be too late.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Your examples only highlight why baseball is behind the other sports.

The NBA and NFL have league-wide, nationwide, TV contracts, and the players are "entitled" to a percentage thereof. (This is the cap).

The teams can then do other stuff on the side (As Jerry Jones did - the league was pissed but they couldn't stop him). Likewise, teh Bulls with MJ were far more marketable than the Clips at the same time. But it didn't take TV money from the Clips. The TV money was league money, not team money.

In your example, each BK would get X dollars from the corporation, and then do whatever they want to earn more, but the original X would still be there. So some BK's (teams) are more valuable than others, but all can compete. (Ask the Clips, Kings and Nets)


Here is where baseball struggles: they can't get a similar contract. The interest isn't there in a lot of markets. Therefore, teams like the Yanks go out and get huge cable deals, while the Expos, Twins, Royals, etc. get contraction talks.

And it might just be too late.

Baseball also has National TV contracts and licensing. You want to penalize a businessman for being able to market his team and get a huge local TV contract?

In your example of Jerry jones......who is to say that owners in baseball wouldn't do the same thing. I guarantee you that Steinbrenner has already figured ways around the salary cap issue. Plus the big market teams already have a hell of a lot more reserves than small market so it would make it even easier to do the deferred contract thing like the NBA does. Every time you hear the phrase "salary cap" you usually hear someone saying how they are "working around the salary cap". So what good does it do to have a cap in place if it gets abused?

This article was written 2 years ago!!!!!!!!!

"Salary cap not a solution for baseball, but revenue sharing is

Sunday, July 23, 2000

I don't pretend to occupy the same intellectual level as pundit George Will. The only time he speaks in single syllables is when he says his name. Another George, former Senate Majority Leader Mitchell, is also playing in a higher league. Nevertheless, I'm sure they'll both be thrilled to know that I agree with their findings as members of baseball's Blue Ribbon Committee that meaningful revenue sharing is more effective as a cost-control mechanism than a salary cap.

What's wrong with the cap is that it doesn't take human foibles into account. What we have now in baseball, all sports really, is players don't trust owners, owners don't trust players' unions, and most importantly, owners don't trust their fellow owners. Rich people, worried that other rich people may be getting over on them, like to bend rules with their money. And so they expend more energy attempting to circumvent the rules of the cap than they do adhering to the spirit of them -- to control costs.

You could look it up. For years the NBA flaunted their salary cap, boasting that they were the best and brightest for employing it. But what happened with their cap in place? NBA owners, seeking an edge on their ownership brethren, subscribed to the Wimpy School of Economics: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" They began to offer contracts so back-loaded they could do wheelies. A dollar down, $50 million later. Well, later came sooner, and the league had to force a lockout to get restrictions on the salary-cap restrictions. In essence, the owners needed the players to help them abstain from their own gluttony.

It's happening in the most prosperous and successful league, the NFL. But they are those things because they share revenue, not because they have a salary cap. We knew all along that Jerry Jones was redefining the term "creative accounting" down in Dallas. We have just begun to discover exactly how creative the DeBartolo family was in San Francisco. And truth be told, there isn't a team in the league that doesn't look for ways to manipulate the system to its advantage. The true "spirit" of the cap is to clandestinely work around it.

Why in the world would anyone think that it would be any different in baseball? Baseball has long been known for its dysfunctional ownership family. The owners' motto? "What's in it for me?" If it created tomfoolery in the NFL, where there is at least a facade of bonding for the common good, what would the cap be like in a renegade-infested ownership group like baseball's? Guaranteed, George Steinbrenner has already thought of 10 ways to dance through salary-cap raindrops.

In fact, I believe a salary cap would even accentuate the advantage for the big-market teams. If the Yankees, Braves and Dodgers started to back-load contracts with cash they have in reserve, while the little guys continue living hand-to-mouth, the disparity grows even greater. However, if there's a substantial tax on payroll, all of a sudden George is spending his profit margin.

Let's say the Yankees turn a profit of $20 million per annum. But if $8 million of that goes back into baseball's central fund, the profit margin is cut nearly in half. Maybe then George thinks twice about spending extra to buy a player, because the cash expenditure and the additional tax he must pay on that expenditure reduces his profit margin to a negligible number. He might still do it, but he would be playing on his own money. And anyone who has ever played poker or the ponies knows you get a bit more cautious when you dig down and feel the lining of your own pockets. George also knows that by spending more money, thus paying more in taxes, he is thereby empowering his opposition, giving them more to spend.

I'm not suggesting that revenue sharing/luxury tax is a perfect solution. It may not even be a solution. But it has a much better chance of succeeding than a salary cap. Because this isn't really about economics. It's about human nature. Give people a limit, and they'll immediately try to exceed it. Tell people there's a price to pay for the price you pay, and that spending one's money may benefit others instead of just yourself, watch those wallets flap shut.

All the Georges' -- Will, Mitchell, and even Steinbrenner -- understand that."


How about the teams that get 25 million in revenue sharing.....YET their payroll is under that? The Twins got $24 million last year...... YET players salaries were only $16.5 million. They need a Salary Minimum......the caps don't work. NFL players get the "Franchise Player" tag slapped on them and they are screwed.
 
hey rudedawg..i hope you didnt take my comments as any sort of flame or in any argumentive fashion. :)

anyways, i'll just say this. Know what I miss? I miss the days when players stayed on their team.

What happened to the Mike Schmidts, Alan Trammels, Lou Whitakers, Cal Ripkens, and a thousand others who stayed with one (and at the most two) teams in their entire 12+ seasons??

thats what i miss :(
 
Kakdiesel said:
hey rudedawg..i hope you didnt take my comments as any sort of flame or in any argumentive fashion. :)

anyways, i'll just say this. Know what I miss? I miss the days when players stayed on their team.

What happened to the Mike Schmidts, Alan Trammels, Lou Whitakers, Cal Ripkens, and a thousand others who stayed with one (and at the most two) teams in their entire 12+ seasons??

thats what i miss :(

Believe me I didn't take it as a flame......I like to call it a debate.... flames are name calling things to make people feel inferior.

I miss the idea of being able to see a spring training game and seeing the same guys on the same teams they were on when the prior season ended.

Hell I can't even keep up with the guys I played with let alone against. Last time the Cardinals were in town I was talking to Edmonds and I look out and asked him "Is that Eddie Perez?" Sure as hell it was. I had no idea he was with the team.
 
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