So What Do You Think About Romney's Taxes Being Stolen

[digimon7068]

oh no...a deduction is taken against income...a tax credit is taken against tax that is calculated on income...thus, a tax credit is significantly more valuable than a deduction...for a typical american household, a deduction is worth around 20 cents on the dollar, while a tax credit is 1-to-1 (i.e., 100 cents on the dollar)...and, we don't all get tax credits...and refundable tax credits are even more valuable because they are in excess of the tax itself...what i'm saying is that those people who qualify, not only get back all the federal tax that was withheld from their wages, they get back money that they didn't even pay in...capiche??? it's quite crazy actually.

p.s. i'm a...

certified public accountant
certified valuation analyst
certified forensic financial accountant

...and i have a masters degree in taxation...and i've been practicing public accounting for almost 23 years now...this stuff is my life...i sit around reading and digesting this shit every damn day...you have to...it changes at a frightening pace!

 

[javaguru]

p.s. i'm a...

certified public accountant
certified valuation analyst
certified forensic financial accountant

...and i have a masters degree in taxation...and i've been practicing public accounting for almost 23 years now...this stuff is my life...i sit around reading and digesting this shit every damn day...you have to...it changes at a frightening pace!

So you're part of the problem?

No offense intended but I could have been a tax attorney and I can't imagine a more unfulfilling profession with a high income thanks to the IRS and licensing by the government.

 

[ceo]

See above re my attitude.

But again, most people dont want to see them because theyre curious to see how much money he made. Everyone knows hes the wealthiest man to ever run for president.

People want to see them because theyre confident he paid little to nothing in taxes, took advantage of amnesty programs, etc. Completely legal, but if some people think Obama wasnt fit to be president because he had a flamboyant pastor, I'm sure many would think Romney isnt fit for office if he's been bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes.

if it's all completely legal, then why is it a problem? Again, that is the only defense he needs. Nice way to put it though, "bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes." LOL! Makes what even you say is legal sound pretty illegal.

What does that mean exactly? Bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes? Like...he tried really hard, or went out of his way to avoid paying taxes? I'm sure his part in it was pretty easy. The tax lawyers and CPAs set it all up for him, basically did it all. Legally (presumably).

So what's the big deal again?

If he releases 10 years of tax returns and everything checks out and all the tools his CPA/tax atty. used to lessen his tax burden were completely legal...somehow he's not fit for office?? I've always thought you were pretty smart and reasonable 75th. This sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Please explain.

 

[ceo]

CEO, you had an interesting discussion with yourself on a flat tax.
I wonder why you righties are so obsessed with the fact that people who have basically nothing don't pay significant federal income tax. (But they do pay tax, lets be clear about that that).
If you tax the poor, you get no revenue, and you take away incentive to work. So, if its not for revenue, why do you want so badly to take money from poor people? Do you hate the poor? Do you view them as freeloading minorities who should be penalized for what they are, through the tax system?

Below is a good link with some good graphics on the distribution of wealth. A very few people have everything. 80% of the people only have 7% of the wealth.
The GOP feels it is very important to keep their hands off of those very few rich people, and talk frequently about getting money from those who have nothing. Not only is that immoral, it can't work. You can't balance the budget by collecting nickels and dimes while the rich light their cigars with hundred dollar bills. How do you explain your problem with poor people and your support of the very rich?

the understatement: US Wealth Distribution Visualized

lol @ you putting words in my mouth. I don't hate the poor like you apparently hate the rich. Nor do I have problems with them. I give to charities, but not as much as Mitt. So I support the very poor. I certainly don't give to the very rich, other than by buying what is produced and distributed by their companies as does everyone, including the very poor. Of course I also give to the very rich/wealthy by paying taxes and having that go to pay the salaries and lavish expenses of those fools that sit up in the capitol in our nation's capital.

As for the poor, I think they should pay as little taxes as possible, and as would be allowed by the law. I don't want anyone to have to pay more taxes than they legally have to (including Romney). I also don't want my burden to be unfairly increased to pay for people who abuse social programs or who are supposed to be public servants, but are completely worthless and serve only themselves. I don't mind paying taxes to support infrastructure and military, public safety, and to support those who truly need the support. Those who truly cannot do anything to support themselves and have no family to help them out need help from someone. Those who can work but don't because it's easier to just let the gov't take care of them need to be taken off the dole.

The wasteful spending by politicians, dms and repubs alike, the people taking advantage of the system, who are able bodied and can work but don't, the billions in aid to foreign countries (some that openly hate us), and other areas of gov't waste need to be eliminated. Those are problems that have been around for decades and seem to only get worse. It feels like we're all the fools arguing about it while all the politicians sit up there laughing at us paying for all their opulence with our hard earned money. That's what I hate. I hate politicians. I hate people that fuck with other peoples' money and waste it.

I like the idea of a flat tax, but I see problems with it like I dialogued. I was serious. If I made $74,999 and the cutoff to pay a 15% flat tax was $75,000, I would make damn sure my boss never gave me a raise, which would in effect lower my income by 15%. Maybe a federal sales tax? A VAT? Those would be in lieu of a federal income tax of course.

 

[75th]

and people wonder why we have a deficit...no one's paying any fucking tax!!!

Let the Bush tax cuts expire and get unemployment down to 5% = no more deficit.

 

[mistaballoonhands]

We had a seminar today on how to minimize all sorts of taxes

 

[75th]

if it's all completely legal, then why is it a problem? Again, that is the only defense he needs. Nice way to put it though, "bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes." LOL! Makes what even you say is legal sound pretty illegal.

What does that mean exactly? Bending over backwards to avoid paying taxes? Like...he tried really hard, or went out of his way to avoid paying taxes? I'm sure his part in it was pretty easy. The tax lawyers and CPAs set it all up for him, basically did it all. Legally (presumably).

So what's the big deal again?

If he releases 10 years of tax returns and everything checks out and all the tools his CPA/tax atty. used to lessen his tax burden were completely legal...somehow he's not fit for office?? I've always thought you were pretty smart and reasonable 75th. This sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Please explain.

Not sure whether or not you actually read my post...especially the part where I said I dont care whether or not I see them.

 

[digimon7068]

Let the Bush tax cuts expire and get unemployment down to 5% = no more deficit.

yeah...that pretty much sums it up.

 

[Headholio]

oh no...a deduction is taken against income...a tax credit is taken against tax that is calculated on income...thus, a tax credit is significantly more valuable than a deduction...for a typical american household, a deduction is worth around 20 cents on the dollar, while a tax credit is 1-to-1 (i.e., 100 cents on the dollar)...and, we don't all get tax credits...and refundable tax credits are even more valuable because they are in excess of the tax itself...what i'm saying is that those people who qualify, not only get back all the federal tax that was withheld from their wages, they get back money that they didn't even pay in...capiche??? it's quite crazy actually.

I get the difference between a deduction and a credit. The earned income credit tops out at 5 thousand something.
So if your tax on income is 7k, and you have a 5k credit, you pay 2k. Since it is a refundable credit, even if your tax is 4k, you get the full 5k, so you get a 1k check back.
Am I right so far?

But you made it sound like everyone who qualifies for the earned income tax credit has a net negative tax rate. That's not the case, is it? What I'm wondering is what percentage of people actually pay less than zero (have a net income) bottom line from federal tax.

 

[digimon7068]

I get the difference between a deduction and a credit. The earned income credit tops out at 5 thousand something.
So if your tax on income is 7k, and you have a 5k credit, you pay 2k. Since it is a refundable credit, even if your tax is 4k, you get the full 5k, so you get a 1k check back.
Am I right so far?

But you made it sound like everyone who qualifies for the earned income tax credit has a net negative tax rate. That's not the case, is it? What I'm wondering is what percentage of people actually pay less than zero (have a net income) bottom line from federal tax.

see post #157 above http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/c...axes-being-stolen-983593-16.html#post14077293

the most recent statistics released by the dept of treasury (the only ones that are actually trust-worthy, everything else is conjecture based) are only from 2008 and 2009...which is kinda old, but it's the best we got...anyway, the bottom 20% paid 0.3% of the total federal income tax...so, the bottom 20% contains all of those who had "negative" tax.

i've never prepared a return for anyone that qualified for the earned income credit, whose credits (including withholding taxes) did not exceed their total federal tax liability...i suppose it's mathematically possible, i've just never seen an instance where the combined credits did not result in a "negative tax".