Should some of you really be using AAS?

[wilson6]

This is not meant to be a rant or flame or anything of that nature, but an observation that got me thinking.

I just read a thread that stated that before AAS this person could only press 25 x 8, now with a pretty good cycle of AAS she can press 45 x 6.

Now, not to only pick on this person because I have seen a number of threads boasting about increases in strength with AAS and lifts being mentioned so I have to comment.

As I read about these weights begin lifted, I think of my some of my female clients. No juice, average american diets, few if any supplements, train 3 HOURS a WEEK, no lifting background, etc.

But, in many cases with only a year or so of training they are shoulder dumbbell pressing 40 - 50 x 8, flat dumbbell pressing 50 - 65 for 8, leg pressing 500 + for high reps (50), etc.

Even some of the "rails" or distance runners I get in with no lifting backgound, skinny as a toothpick and pathetically weak are shoulder pressing 30 x 8 DBs and flat pressing 35 x 8 DBs within 6 months. Again, nothing fancy, no supplements, just a relatively balanced diet and hard training.

So when I hear that someone is using some of the weights described while on AAS and these weights are no more or less than most of the women I train without AAS, supplements, special routines and hours in the gym, I have to think there is something wrong here and it's not that most of you have poor genetics.

Don't ask me what the problem is, but it really seems like there is one.

If you can't flat dumbbell press 50 x 8 or bench 95 x 8 or squat 225 x 8 to the box on a smith machine without AAS after a year of training, supplements, proper diet and hours in the gym, there is a problem and it shouldn't be solved with AAS.

Does anyone agree here?

W6

 

[Phemomena]

I'm probably one of the ones that is being referred to in this thread.. but i have many reasons for going the route that have... i'm tiny and determined to get stronger... the two combined in me have resulted in a lot of injuries and abuse that my body just didn't want to be put through any more... i think unfortunately i'd reached my genetic limit at a measly 110 lbs.. (maybe i'm wrong, but three years of busting my ass says to me that i'm not)... could i have gotten where i am w/o AS, probably, but at what cost... i don't want to be a candidate for knee/shoulder or whatever surgery... i'm now feeling a lot more comfortable with the weights i want to use and not scared that something will give at any second (i do now and have always used good form, but that's not always enough)

what really gets me is the girls that don't even know WHY they're doing this... they are using as a form of 'weight control' or 'fat loss'... where did these ideas come from? really, who is telling girls that they can take steroids and loose weight... 1) they aint going to do jack crap for you if your diet and training isn't bang on... and 2) you probably will gain weight... and most importantly 3) this is serious stuff... they aren't the least bit educated on what they're putting into their bodies... and are liable to end up wth some pretty nasty sides that they never even seen coming...

 

[Phemomena]

hehe for the record i was pushing 40's on db press (chest) before AS use probably could do more but i never have a spot and my wrists are bad...

 

[wilson6]

Spat,

1) You're not BULKING if you're bodyfat is going down.

2) There are many other factors related to strength than just plain muscle size. AAS alter a number of variables that affect strength. The muscle may become more dense for example. In other words, more contractile tissue and less non-contractile tissue in a given amount of space. Do your muscles feel harder? Ever hear, "I feel harder", etc. There are also changes in the nervous system (brain and at the muscle level). Also mechanical changes due to water retention.

3) Being leaner makes it harder to add muscle, thus harder to increase contractile tissue. However, you are getting leaner, but unless you are on an AAS that doesn't cause water retention, you won't look as defined or lean even though this has nothing to do with fat.

I know everyone says steroids don't make you leaner, but they do because they are nutrient repartitioning agents. If you stay on the same diet (total kcal and balance of protein, carbs and fat), didn't change your lifting routine, daily activity or cardio, I assure you that just adding AAS will increase muscle and decrease fat especially in women. This has been shown in the literature. In fact, if you look at the fact sheets given to docs to determine if a female patient is using steroids, they say to watch for increases in muscle mass and decreases in fat. There is a reason for that.

However having said that I will also say that steroids should NEVER be used solely as a fat loss agent or considered for that purpose. Too many possible negative sides simply to try and lose a few pounds of fat. Many other far safer and legal options that start with diet and exercise.

W6

 

[wilson6]

I understand your mindset PHEM. But..........

Sounds like chronic overtraining was holding you back more than genetics. The only thing that the AAS are doing now is overcoming that. If your injuries were truly due to poor genetics, you'd have plenty of them now as well. In fact, possibly more since your muscles are going to get stronger faster than the tendons will thus increasing your risk of injury. It's your desire to get bigger that's holding you back. No different than someone trying to get thin. You're trying too hard. AAS will only go so far and eventually you'll be back to an overtrained state and have to get off the AAS. Then life will not be fun at all.

W6

 

[Phemomena]

i know... its just hard on me hearing about all you bigger gals (no offence meant, i'm trying to get there myself )pushing so much weight and i'm coming along, but i struggle sometimes (especially squats... i get flashbacks of my transverse pull awhile back when i'm loading up the squat bar... eeek..) i think we have to take a person's size and genetics into account when we talk about how much weight they should be lifting... for a girl who's a muscular 150 to bench 135 it shouldn't be that much of an accomplishment, but for my tiny ass, well i'm pretty damn proud

and for the record... you're right, i have NEVER suggested ANYONE take an AS route... that is their own decision to make and they should know when they are ready... i fume to no end when i see people suggesting AS to anyone (though it really doesn't happen much)... i'm all about pushing that clean diet/hard work thing... no easy ways out...

 

[Hannibal]

Great post Phem. Gear is a tool...it is not a magical potion. It is just a part of your arsenal. I personally researched it for SEVERAL years before I decided to use. And even then I waited till after I was 24 when the male body's natural test production begins to reduce.

It kills me that these people will be so reckless with what they take into their body. I mean what kind of SHEEP mentality is it to take something that "some guy" told you would make you stronger. It is really sad...I mean do the research. And then you can make an educated decision whether or not the risk is worth it.

Your body is only as strong as its weakest link. And unfortunately for some....that weak link is their mind

"Mens Sana en Carpore Sani" (Latin)
A strong mind in a strong body"

 

[Phemomena]

w6-

did i overtrain - yes, of course i did... haven't we all at one point in our lives?

did i ALWAYS overtrain... ummm... NO!!!

my genetics may have not been the only factor holding me back, maybe i could have gotten farther without AS... but on the same note, i know i'll never be 140lbs unless i get back up to 30+% bf... at my size i'll never be able to lift as much on AS as some girls can lift naturally... i can accept that... i wanted to take myself to my limit... and i'd rather not be compared to other people (which is the main reason that i'll probably never compete)

don't get me wrong, i haven't plateaued for three years... its been about 5-6 months, and my injuries were one main (transverse pull) which brought my whole body outta whack.. (you never know what it's like to pull a muscle until you've pulled a stabalizer... dang!!!)... this caused just about every other type of ache and pain to manifest itself in the worst way... while recoperating from that, i made the decision to go the route i did...

i personally have been through all ranges of the spectrum... i've been in competitive gymnastics (that's where the bad wrists/ankles come from), i've been 30-40lbs overweight... i'm now pretty in tune with my body... i'm very careful when i train and yeah, i'm tough on myself.. am i using AS as a tool to overtrain and get away with it... i certainly hope not...

its possible that i'm harder on myself now... but it goes with the territory, you have to push yourself to get somewhere... i'm not just going to sit around in my comfort zone and hope that things will change, i have to make changes happen for myself...

was it the absolute best decision... who knows, but it was the one i made, and i feel it was a good one. Being the person i am, i fully researched everything, and tried learn as i possibly could... i didn't jump into this route lightheartely...


(okay, sorry if that was disjointed a little, i'm at work and i keep having to leave and come back )

 

[new@gettinbig]

Very good post....especially after I just read muneca wanted to change her body cause she went from a size 3-4 to a 6!!!! I guess everyone has their reasons and I am not one to judge..its your body...and your choice. I do believe however it is a very SERIOUS choice and sometimes is not seen as that. I think many assume they will get better results, lose weight yada yada yada..and you can but you gotta train your ass off. Its not a short cut and you cant slide your way through it. Yes I think you should establish a good solid base...if you are lifting 10lbs dumbbells you may want to wait for a bit

Sometimes women are unaware of their strength because they have never lifted heavy and it is something they may not do for whatever reason. Some may have no one to spot them...or just scared to do the heavier weights for fear of putting on tons of muscle....Sometimes some of the posts on here scare me a bit...lots of research and education needs to be done. We live in a society where everyone wants to take a pill and let it do the work.....while we relax and the lbs drop and bodies sculpt into hard ones. I come into contact w/ women all the time who look for this...and want overnight results as well.

Not many want to go at it hard and sacrafice and really push themselves. If you are going to do it... do it right and make it worth your time and money. Make sure you know what the hell is going on!

 

[buksoon]

My question in all of this is: Do you think that the compulsion to get bigger is a "cousin" of the compulsion to get smaller (aka anorexia)?

Both are rooted in a dissatisfaction with the body that genetics handed you and an (almost) "at whatever cost necessary" to change it. And more importantly, both are rooted in the need for CONTROL. Controlling the body, conquering its desires to eat (or DROP the thing that is heavy enough to make you cry and/or puke).

All that is healthy to a point. But with AS and courting injury and the boasting about crying/fainting/puking after a lift (I am DEFINITELY guilty of that) ... I wonder if it's just a different strain of the same "virus" that is anorexia.

*It's not really "boasting" as much as it is proving we're not wimps and we can belong among a group of women on a site called "Elite."

 

[Phemomena]

My question in all of this is: Do you think that the compulsion to get bigger is a "cousin" of the compulsion to get smaller (aka anorexia)?

Both are rooted in a dissatisfaction with the body that genetics handed you and an (almost) "at whatever cost necessary" to change it. And more importantly, both are rooted in the need for CONTROL. Controlling the body, conquering its desires to eat (or DROP the thing that is heavy enough to make you cry and/or puke).

All that is healthy to a point. But with AS and courting injury and the boasting about crying/fainting/puking after a lift (I am DEFINITELY guilty of that) ... I wonder if it's just a different strain of the same "virus" that is anorexia.

*It's not really "boasting" as much as it is proving we're not wimps and we can belong among a group of women on a site called "Elite."

control is a good word, dissatisfaction is probably not... i'm not dissatisfied at all with my body, but i do love the fact that i've discovered how to shape and mold my body into a work of art... its not to control my size though... i'm small, i've never said i want to be huge, it's not going to happen... i just want muscles.. i believe that i can be small, feminine and muscular... and i am but that's just me personally i can't speak for others...

as for injuries, they happen... i think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who has trained hard and for a number of years and hasn't had some sort of injury... its how you deal with them that determines your success or failure in this game... you need to know and understand your body and its signals... and know when to back off or stay away from the gym...

again, on a personal note, my injury issues are unique, when you pull a stabalizer muscle, you may only feel it at certain times, when it first started bugging me (nagging aches not a strong pain) i would say well i'll see just how much i can work through this, but what happens is that other muscles (that wouldn't normally be handling the load) end up compensating... then your entire muscular structure is thrown for a loop so to speak... i believe i was lucky... my minor ache quickly became a severe pain (this happened outside of the gym)... it wasn't a serious tear/pull, but it was a real awakening for me... suddenly i couldn't sit up or lie down by myself...

had i not tore the muscle, i would have probably ended up pulling a lot of other muscles... i spent a few weeks in athletic therapy and physio and according to one of my therapists, "my body was really on the verge of doing some nasty things to me"... so i personally took that whole ordeal as a sign...

i would NEVER do anything at "whatever cost" i have my priorities and my reasoning... both have been well thought out...

 

[buksoon]

Spatterson: Indeed I am quite sure it is NOT for me! Which is why I'm not on it.

Phem: I didn't mean to imply that you had "issues." (I don't perceive that as the case.) I just got a sense of "dissatisfaction" from when you said that your body, without AS, would never be where you wanted it to be.

It's just: If my younger sister (of whom I am very protective) said she wanted to start AS, I'd beg her to reconsider. Even if she was as shrewd and emphatic in its defense as you ladies are. I would tell her:

"Why artificially produce testerone? You're perfect right now! And I'll kick your ass if you put yourself at risk for all the myriad health problems that will emerge at a later point!"

(The same way that I kick her ass when she lights a cigarette. And the same way I'd throw out an AS dose if it was offered to me, no matter how tempting.)

If I am wrong about the health risk, I'd love to learn about it. Spats, you called AS "preventative medicine." Really? How??

 

[MS]

All I want to add to this enlivened discussion is that, medically speaking, AAS use in bodybuilders leads to a disproportionate increase in muscle strength compared to tendon, ligament and overall joint strength. Any attempt at justifiying AAS use based on previous non-muscular injuries is misguided IMHO (possible exception is Deca which is great for men who don't produce any naturally occuring progestenic steroids). And as always I have to add that if the majority of AAS using females on this board applied the same dedication to training and eating but without the AAS I can assure you that you would all imprees yourselves beyond your wildest dreams. To me it feels like AAS use in America is becoming an 'excuse' for non-professional bodybuilding females to eat more and train harder. What if you just decided to eat more and train harder without the motivation of AAS use???? Scary thought I know, but what if.........

 

[Phemomena]

Phem: I didn't mean to imply that you had "issues." (I don't perceive that as the case.) I just got a sense of "dissatisfaction" from when you said that your body, without AS, would never be where you wanted it to be.

not true... never said that...

i said maybe i could have gotten where i have w/o AS, i don't know. I've personally taken my injuries and plateauing as a sign that my body has reached its natural potential... did i bow out too easy? i don't know, but this is the choice i've made... no regrets here, not dissatisfied... i think i'm a hottie ... there's always room for improvement, but that's motivation to me, not a reason to be dissatisfied...

 

[Hannibal]

For me...this is from a male perspective...it is about Quality of Life. "Given a long enough timeline the survival rate of everyone drops to zero." We only have a certain amount of time on this earth with this body. Why not make the most of it. Gear will NEVER EVER replace hard work. But it might reduce the amount of time that it takes someone to reach their dreams. And as long as they can deal with the moral issues behind it...and are prepared for any side effects that MIGHT occur then I say live your life to the fullest. Having said that I have the uptmost in respect for anyone that has decided not to use. I only hope that they do so of their own judgement and have not had the judgement placed in their head. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. You are the only one that has to look yourself in the mirror.

After reading that it might sound like I advocate the EASY way out. Couldn't be further from the truth. I would bank on the fact that I am in the top 1% of the people on this board when it comes to effort put forth in the gym. I am a competitive powerlifter and compete in non tested events...so I am not cheating anyone. I know that my view is a bit different from you ladies...but it still is about making the most of the little time that we have been alotted. And with careful planning and research, done in moderation...AAS use can increase the quality of life...without imparing the quantity of life.

Strength and Honor

 

[Phemomena]

exactly hannibal...

i think that the comments are basically being directed at me since i seem to be the only one with the testicular fortitude to post my reasoning... regardless of my reasons it was my decision... my body, my choice... i knew, in my mind and in my heart that i was ready to take things to another level... and i know fully what i'm getting into... i've done my research, i'm not taking the AS to recover from injuries or avoid other ones, it was just injuries and such that opened my eyes that things hadn't really been going anywhere for about 3-4 months... i waited until i was fully recovered and lifting to my pre-injury level prior to starting my cycle...

there are girls on here that saying i weigh 200lbs want to loose 50lbs, i walk for 30-40 min 3 times a week and started doing some pushups and squats (weightless).. should i take winny or anavar to speed the fat loss (and i'm seriously not exagerating, i can dig up the post if you want)... now, its these people who this post really should be directed at... i've done my research and stand by my reasoning..

lets look at the real issue on these boards... if someone goes a route they are going for a shortcut (not speaking of myself) to being stronger, that's really their decision, at least they have the right idea...we have girls on AS for the wrong reasons who are setting themselves up not only to loose their money, but also for some nasty sides that they probably haven't researched and won't even see coming...

but that's just my opinion...

 

[Hannibal]

but that's just my opinion...

I completely concur...I know that I have not posted on this board often. Looks like I have been missin out on some valuable information...as well as some wonderful people

Forgive my ignorance...but what are these injuries that you speak of Phem??!

 

[Phemomena]

I completely concur...I know that I have not posted on this board often. Looks like I have been missin out on some valuable information...as well as some wonderful people

Forgive my ignorance...but what are these injuries that you speak of Phem??!

minor details posted above....

in depth story... here it goes ya'll laugh at me now...

felt a slight pull in my ab area (thought it was an oblique, left side), just worked through it (you know one of those things, only hurt doing certain things....) this went on for about 2-3 weeks... no better, no worse... then it started to feel a bit better... for a couple weeks it was pretty much gone.. went on vacation... caught a cold... coughed a lot, which aggrivated it again... it was like that for another 1-2 weeks...

during this time i was getting aches and pains (knees, wrists which have always been bad, glutes, quads, lower back, shoulders... you name it, it all hurt to some degree and generally on the left side)... i took a couple weeks off during which everything else cleared up except for the pull..

then one day at work.. get this, i sneezed and bam, rip in my side like you would not believe... couldn't sit down, lie back... nada...
i'd ripped (and minorly, though the pain i was in was NOT minor) my transverse ab

weeks in physio and athletic therapy revealed that during the weeks of training through this pull i'd been stabilizing with muscles on my left side that weren't accustomed to doing this work and that it was causing imbalances and symetry problems... i didn't actually pull anything else, but had i carried on i may have... and it really could have been bad... i consider myself lucky...

 

[wilson6]

"W6, do you avoid answering my posts and PM's on purpose? "

No ladies, I exist only to address your threads. What ARE you talking about?

W6

 

[wilson6]

Not getting any PM's.

You're putting on muscle. As I said, you feel fat because of the water or simply the fact that you're not used to putting on weight (a mental thing).

Case in point. For those thinking about using AAS for fat loss. You'll feel fatter with AAS that cause water retention.

Not sure what you're getting at SPAT.

BTW, below is a pic of huge with freaky shoulders. If you're not this big, you're only huge in your own mind. You'll get over it. In fact, soon you'll see yourself as not big enough. Am I right New@?

 

[new@gettinbig]

Yes now that is some MASSIVE FREAKY Shoulders!!!! In response to all this…we as individuals may think and feel we got some big size…biceps…legs…..etc…but in the whole scheme of things we do not!!!! Unless you are a pro heavyweight and training for YEARS on end you are not huge. By societys standards yes we may be big and out of the ordinary but by no means huge. We may be big in our own eyes...from what shape we came from and our bodies have never reached this size...so it seems BIG!

I have come to find that unless you plan on training for years....hard and heavy and taking some good amounts of stuff...w/ some sides to deal w/. You will not get massive! I promise you that. It takes time and good diet, and training. Its something that is not achieved easily.

Sometimes I think we get caught up in our own little worlds and forget being realistic. Once I started putting on muscle...I was one of those that just wanted to tone....not put on any weight and by all means not put a lot of mass on. Well now I am 30 lbs heavier...bought all new clothes...can keep some that will fit a few weeks before my shows but I am where I never intended on being and I love it...and I want more size. If you would have told me that I would a long time ago I would of said are you kidding????

Now I do not want to be as large as the girl in the picture...but a version of Valentina...maybe even a somewhat smaller one?? Thats why it cracks me up when I go out and I get so many stares...comments and guys asking and saying shit to me...saying I am big....cause really Im not..just big to what they are used to. Im yet to see a massive girl on this board like that pic...most of us have just begun....muscle is something that will not happen w/ one cycle of anavar..or winny...you gotta build...day in and day out...year after year...nutrition like crazy...and let your muscle mature. As women we all suffer w/ image shit. We are either not thin enough...or want more size..more muscle. We are never satisfied....

and I promise you the more size you gain, and the more time you spend in the gym....you will continue to want to grow. Let me know when you get to the point of wanting to just stop and stay where you are at. Doubt it will happen.

 

[Phemomena]

BTW, below is a pic of huge with freaky shoulders. If you're not this big, you're only huge in your own mind. You'll get over it. In fact, soon you'll see yourself as not big enough. Am I right New@?

i'm assuming you've directed this at me... and you need to step back and look at the situation and where I'm coming from...

my freaky shoulders post was not in reference to their size... i've never said i was "big" or that i thought my shoulders are "big"... my physique is more in the realm of fitness than bodybuilding...

well i don't think the rest of the post is directed at me, but when you're going to particuarily point that out, well, what gives? I've never complained about my size i rarely even bring up that i feel big or small... my shoulders are looking striarated (sp?)... in my mind i associate that with freaky...

i'm tiny, my size on me is fine, i have a goal of putting on about another 5lbs then seeing just how lean i can get with what i have... do i want to get bigger, sure but i'm not and never will be in that league, and never said that was my goal....

new - i totally understand where you're coming from, but in my eyes, if you're not willing to risk things like a well-paying job in an area that has NOTHING to do with fitness, if you're not willing to take the stuff that reaching this size takes (and we all know it's not anything like my 12.5mg a day anavar cycle) AND if you dont' have the genetics to look like this is the first place even if points 1 and 2 aren't factors, well then this look isn't even in an ultimate goal or passing fantasy!

as i said above, i'm tiny, do i want to put on size sure, lots of size no, because:

1) my world is surrounded by the reality checks that these types of ladies do not have (9-10+ hour day job in software, family and friends who have no clue about a gym other than its a place they'll never see the inside of, fiance who expects to do more than just spot me etc)

2) i know i NEVER could... just like any sport, this isn't all a matter of what drugs you take... genetics play a part in it.. genetics that i don't have... if i did it would be another story, but since i don't i don't even consider it...

i find myself looking at other people and saying damn, if i had her genetics i'd be a monster... but working with what i have, amature bb isnt' even really an option, i've a fitness physique and if i ever cross a stage it'll be a fitness stage... i think i may have pretty good genetics for that , plus the drive, determination and knowledge... don't get me wrong, i have the utmost respect for the bb physiqe, but its not me...

sooo... w6- stop pickin on me already.... answer your questions w/o taking pokes at me, ... jeeesh... i wish i would have just remained out of this thread, now i'm the target of the day it seems

 

[Sassy69]

Just wanted to throw out a few comments on what people consider the different "types" of bodies in terms of competition -

- BB
- Ms. Olympia - the huge, rock hard chick with the square jaw is the general perception of the typical female bodybuilder. At this level, yes you have to be jacked, yes you will look freaky huge, though the general look is not quite as freaky as it used to be - consider Valentina and Jennifer McVicar
- "Natural" competitors -- these girls have what you might call a fitness chick body, maybe a little thicker. Most of you have seen some of my comp pix -- I still needed to be maybe 1-2% leaner yet. These are not freaky big people. If anything, I shrank prepping for that show.

- Fitness - These girls not only get to do the suit posing, they have to do the flying splits & other gymnastics stuff, now including a compulsory session where they do certain flexibility & strength moves as well.
- These girls are usually lean as shit and at the professional level, they are still ripped up --- Kelly Ryan is small, but consider Timea - she's a very tall girl, but still as beefy as many natural (or "tested") bb competitors I've seen. And built! At some local shows, I've seen some gymnasts compete who would make Valentina look twice at their thickness.

- Figure-- the new field with the "Fitness chick" look in terms of leanness as well as the 2 posing sessions ( 1 piece & 2 piece suits) but not the fitness / performance requirement. This is somewhere in between bb and fitness. The funny thing is they claim to not have to be as lean or shredded as the fitness or bb girls, but I personally think the judges are lying when they say that - in the comps I've seen, only the completely shredded girls won. This is probably going to be the fastest growing segment of women's physique competition because it does not have the "freaky" stereotype that bb has and also doesn't require a gymnastics background.

Anyway, just wanted to mention these... There are the extremes, but those descriptions don't necessarily always apply.

 

[Sassy69]

the pic looks great from the neck down. Shoulders and all.

 

[wilson6]

SPAT and PHEM

Now I'm picking on you two? First I'm not answering your PMs (no attention), then I'm picking on you two Come on ladies, can't remain indecisive forever. Am I picking or am I ignoring?

Regarding my PM box. I never check that thing. I barely have enough time to read some of the posts, but I'll go check it. Had to ask New@ this morning just how to get in.

Besides, I'm not picking on anyone, just firing up some conversation and I'm pretty good at getting women going, well at least in the conversation area, actually the defensive argumentative area and it's working..........

From the shoulders down......... Be careful, even without the muscle I'll bet that not all of you on this board would get on the cover of Cosmo. I know I wouldn't make GQ and we sure don't judge the male BBs by their faces nearly as much as we do the women.


W6

 

[Phemomena]

SPAT and PHEM

Now I'm picking on you two? First I'm not answering your PMs (no attention), then I'm picking on you two Come on ladies, can't remain indecisive forever. Am I picking or am I ignoring?

Regarding my PM box. I never check that thing. I barely have enough time to read some of the posts, but I'll go check it. Had to ask New@ this morning just how to get in.

Besides, I'm not picking on anyone, just firing up some conversation and I'm pretty good at getting women going, well at least in the conversation area, actually the defensive argumentative area and it's working..........

From the shoulders down......... Be careful, even without the muscle I'll bet that not all of you on this board would get on the cover of Cosmo. I know I wouldn't make GQ and we sure don't judge the male BBs by their faces nearly as much as we do the women.


W6

sorry if i was mistaken, i just thought the 'freaky shoulders' comment was directed at me and my post a few days ago... after all that's probably not the freakiest thing on her...

all in good fun though, i'm not upset at all... takes more than that to really irk me, and ya'll know when i'm pissed...

and for all that its worth (tooting my own horn here)... i'm cute i've done a little bit of modeling in the past but since i've cut my hair super short i'm not really in the realm of covergirl any more...

(but i did have 3 guys i never met before suddenly give me flowers last night (flash back from some cheesy 80s commercial))

and spatts is a hottie too...

 

[Star]

That pic looks like they cut and pasted a mans head on that body.....NASTY!!!!

Star

 

[wilson6]

Lobo,

It's an easy pot to stir up and I'm pretty good at stirring up those kinds of pots (estrogen broth).

Ya see, they (the estrogen based units) see it as disjointed, but we (the T based units) know exactly what's going on.

I think I was confusing PHEM with SPAT or vice versa, oh well, same operating system just different software

W6

 

[BrickGirl]

I know I got all stirred up over it I just couldn't control myself wait, this is my first post on this thread, hmmm

 

[tripleV]

me too!

 

[ann]

This is an estrogen based board.....why do the Tbased units want to come and stir up the estrogen broth??

Thought it was kind of a wimpy, slow stir at best. Everything wasnt mixed up smoothly enough....too lumpy.

Perturbed me a lot also.

 

[ann]

Still enjoy w6 knowledge in the drug field..... Matter of fact , might need to PM you on something, if you have figured that doohickey button out yet??

 

[Dingo12]

When you first start lifting you do make incredible gains - I only turned to AS when I 'stood still' for 12 months despite trying everything else I could think of with training/diet. I then took off again. I have maintained this whilst 'off' the as and am looking forward to gains in my next cycle.