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Self-imposed HRT at 24.

10001110101

New member
I am 24 years old, I recently completed my first cycle, I have been depressed for about 7 years, basically always run down, tired, unfocused, poor sleeping habits, etc. Anyways I recently completed my first 6-week cycle, and it was possibly the first time in my life I ever wanted to actually make something of myself, first time I felt like I was the person I was supposed to be, I felt like life was richer and everyone around me was better for it as a result. I was just happy with myself and yet working harder and getting more out of life than ever. College was a breeze, little things didn't get me down, I was getting laid regularly, I did little things to make my life better. I've been on many different meds for depression, tried the herbal therapies. I've used Prozac, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, SAM-e, DHEA, Fish Oil, 5-htp, everything out there to try to beat this thing. Depression has cost me so much already not to mention the years I should be getting the most of. When I came off cycle, I used proper PCT (clomid was a disaster, so i switched to aromasin) recovered fine after about 4-5 weeks and now I feel better than I did in PCT but I'm stuck back where I was before the cycle.

Pre-cycle I had my test levels checked they were midrange (around 500) anyways, what would be the implications of self-administered HRT of 250mg every 2 weeks? I understand I would be infertile during HRT and to have kids I'd have to come off and that I'd probably permanently limit my T production.

I understand that this is asking for something I'll have to do forever, but I'd rather do this forever than live the way I have been, my other options would be prozac forever with a limp-dick and countless other side effects. (not to mention SSRI's always left me feeling a little "unnatural") I dunno guess some feedback would be nice.
 
You may have some under lying bipolar issues bro and it may not just be a depression issue. Thus, your talking a whole different array of medications.

Wellbutrin has no sexual sides and Klonopin will help prevent negative sides caused by SSRI's also.

As long as your test is normal when you come off you dont need TRT and I dont recommend at such a young age.

Basically, if its normal thats not a cause for the depression or fatigue. Its something else.

And the self imposed HRT will only be a temporary relief to your real issues.

just my .02..................................................
 
Yeah wellbutrin didn't have sexual sides, but it caused anxiety, insomnia, and didn't really do anything for the depression. The prozac and lexapro both helped at first but eventually stopped working (probably because I couldn't maintain a relationship b/c of libido issues)

Anyways any medication is a temporary fix anyways, this is just a different medication, one that actually exists naturally. I understand it isn't perfect, but I'm willing to accept the compromises. What are the real long-term ramifications starting at a young age, anyone know anything about this?
 
Herein is one of the psychological manifestations of roid use. But whenever you use drugs to balance one problem out, the mind and body have a way of sidestepping it eventually. Then you still have the problem, plus another one.

Your life has just begun. There are a million things to experience. Don't do it on crutches. Keep bodybuilding. It's best thing on the planet for self esteem and mental stability. Get busy and stay busy. And don't look back.
 
This is very interesting. Having a test level of about 500 naturally is not so bad.....Did the doctor did any other testes? Like measuring all the other hormons and the free T as well. Testosterone testing by itself it's not complete it only tells you very little. What's amazing is that being on a cycle made you feel waaaay better than your natural testosterone.
Usually ppl have problems if their testosterone is low like 200 or so. However, you might have other underlying issues but also there could be a problem with your pituitary gland being lazy or something. That will put you on a rollacoaster ride with high/low test levels all the time. The reason I'm saying all this is that I've been through the same thing myself with the highs and lows till my pituaitary was getting very unpredictable how was working, mainly lacking the production of LH. Everything else was fine except the LH, very weird. Since HRT I'm feeling great, I'm not tired, moody etc.
It's fuck in great
 
If you natural test is 800 why would you need TRT? If you get up over 900 the side effects only increase thats why we cycle. That being said when I did 1000mgs of test and 400mgs of Eq for about 6 months I actually improved my hdl and blood work numbers.

Theres so many variables bro.

how much do you drink?

do you spend the weekend doing the yao?

You pre dispositioned for bad cholesterol or a heart attack?

With increased bp those arteries will thicken bro....slowly.....over time

but again..............genetics

who knows

If anything, change the thread to "self imposed cruising"

but hey, if you dont have a problem with needles for life? Now remember you will be shooting that wrinkly old ass up at 80yrs old, so things may look different then?Lol
 
Great advice Nelson.

Drugs in general taken over a long period of time; unless taken to fix a natural defficiency (for example lithium for bipolar disorder) will only ever make things worse.

10001110101, you're aware of your problem and your lucky enough to not have followed the path of addiction many of us have - don't add another problem - don't make it worse.
 
galaxy said:
If you natural test is 800 why would you need TRT? If you get up over 900 the side effects only increase thats why we cycle. That being said when I did 1000mgs of test and 400mgs of Eq for about 6 months I actually improved my hdl and blood work numbers.

Theres so many variables bro.

how much do you drink?

do you spend the weekend doing the yao?

You pre dispositioned for bad cholesterol or a heart attack?

With increased bp those arteries will thicken bro....slowly.....over time

but again..............genetics

who knows

If anything, change the thread to "self imposed cruising"

but hey, if you dont have a problem with needles for life? Now remember you will be shooting that wrinkly old ass up at 80yrs old, so things may look different then?Lol

There is always TESTIM if you don't like needles.....It actually works great even though is a pain to put that shit on all the time :)
 
Varga said:
This is very interesting. Having a test level of about 500 naturally is not so bad.....Did the doctor did any other testes? Like measuring all the other hormons and the free T as well. Testosterone testing by itself it's not complete it only tells you very little. What's amazing is that being on a cycle made you feel waaaay better than your natural testosterone.
Usually ppl have problems if their testosterone is low like 200 or so. However, you might have other underlying issues but also there could be a problem with your pituitary gland being lazy or something. That will put you on a rollacoaster ride with high/low test levels all the time. The reason I'm saying all this is that I've been through the same thing myself with the highs and lows till my pituaitary was getting very unpredictable how was working, mainly lacking the production of LH. Everything else was fine except the LH, very weird. Since HRT I'm feeling great, I'm not tired, moody etc.
It's fuck in great

yeah i didn't get any hormones checked besides thyroid. yeah, and it's not like i felt like life was perfect or anything, i still got angry, sad, bored, everything, in fact my emotions were probably heightened, but it was different, they were clear and they made sense, i was actually in really dire financial straits but instead of getting down i felt motivated by the situation, i just felt alive i guess, anyone who's been depressed knows it's hard to describe, you seem normal and you more or less act like someone who isn't depressed if you're good at faking it, but there's just this constant heavy blanket over everything you do and you just feel trapped and suffocated. ALL THE TIME. it sucks. yeah sure occasionally stuff makes you feel good, but that good feeling is usually less than what you feel at baseline if you aren't depressed. it's a fuckin bitch.

i'm guessing if it is testosterone related it's gotta be low free test since my levels are in the middle of the range.
deadlifts are the only thing that feels good to me anymore.
 
If you think there is a solution to your problem then go talk to your docter about it...your right anti-depressents are not the solution, and im not saying you couldnt do it with out test but who knows. I know whats its like to be down and it sucks more then anything. Talk to your family, friends docter about it and do what you feel is best for you. The only advice is if your depressed and you think there is somethign out there that can really help you(not just temp fix it)then by all means go for it.
 
8and20 said:
treat the depression first before dealing with the aas issue.


I disagree

establish a healthy Endocrine System FIRST with in normal to high normal THEN deal with issues if they are there.

He probably I am guessing has low Free Test Levels and possible elevated "female hormones"

he would def need more tests before

If the Thread starter stated that he has tried it all then all of so sudden in one feel swoop he felt better after and entire LIFE I'd say thats a clue to the WISE
 
corto said:
doesnt low testosterone in the body cause depression in some cases?


in MANY cases

think of your self as a car running

which is a happier car? one with the Best gas, or that shit gas that makes you move slow?
 
the depression is directly related to the endocrine issue imho. in any case self medication without doc consult is not wise in this case and not necessarily the answer.

OMEGA said:
I disagree

establish a healthy Endocrine System FIRST with in normal to high normal THEN deal with issues if they are there.

He probably I am guessing has low Free Test Levels and possible elevated "female hormones"

he would def need more tests before

If the Thread starter stated that he has tried it all then all of so sudden in one feel swoop he felt better after and entire LIFE I'd say thats a clue to the WISE
 
OMEGA said:
I disagree

establish a healthy Endocrine System FIRST with in normal to high normal THEN deal with issues if they are there.

He probably I am guessing has low Free Test Levels and possible elevated "female hormones"

he would def need more tests before

If the Thread starter stated that he has tried it all then all of so sudden in one feel swoop he felt better after and entire LIFE I'd say thats a clue to the WISE

But at 24, how can you say you've tried it all? There is so much to know and learn and experience. Also, at 24 if it's a matter of hormones, you're at the age where you should be ultra responsive to certain supplements. If it's a case of free test then UNLEASHED would make a big difference. At 24 it'll make you a total horndog. But depression is a separate thing. I don't think the steroids treated the depression due to a hormonal deficiency. It makes more sense that the increased strength, muscle and well being is what made the difference. That can not be maintained over a lifetime. In short, at some point you got to get your shit together. Stop looking for excuses. Get going with making something of yourself. That's the best anti depressant in the world.
 
no one can say he is tried it all but as we all know it case by case

as I said "use your intuition and an Ivy League Doc"

As far as depression etc, I think the correlation between the Endocrine system and ones mental state go HAND in HAND

and the way the original poster presented his experiences does not sound at all souns like a cop out or easy way out. It sounds like he knows intuitively the answer is tied somehow to his hormone levels

and I encourage his exploration of it under a docs care
 
And how can you know its just sime depression? Is it an Anxiety disorder or like i said, underlying bipolar disorder.

I guess what you look for , or at least what I want is mid to high total and free test. I need Test injects to do this. Do you? Otherwise the test wont help.

Its just gonna shut you down naturally. See if I went natural I would be very low and have no energy and fatigue with shitty libido thus I need the TRT. You may be fine without.

Total numbers whether yours from your natural pitutary or from a Organon vial dont make a difference with your issues.

Like sustanon test levels arent better than your natural ones if your 600 either way?
 
24 and you want HRT ??? Wrong move...You are dealing with depression issues that I doubt have anything to do with your endocrine system. Priorities change and you may want to have a family one day...I'm almost 10 years your senior and just now got on HRT and it's because of a legit medical reason.

Based on your lab work It sounds like to me you are looking for an excuse to just use gear all the time....I would listen to Nelson and to Galaxy both.

If you feel the need to use gear all the time, then do so{I'm certainly not judging}....but do not expect people to validate your reasons for you.
 
Time out. For starters Depression is a result of misfiring or disconnected neurotransmitters. This "short circut" causes a decrease in Seratonin. Low seratonin or L-Dopa or Nor-epi, make you feel waaaay down, even suicidal.
This is a result of a chemical reaction in the brain caused by a lack of these chemicals in your system.
SSRI or SSNI increase these levels and in effect, re-wire your brains neurotransmitters. And greatly improving your mood.

Most people diagnosed with depression stay on this medication for years, if not for life. Some can come completely off after "a while."
I have been on Efexor for almost 10 years, and it has absolutely
NO NEGATIVE EFFECT while using AAS. In fact I can usually lower the dose when I'm ON.
That is MY experience... I'm sure there are others that have had an adverse reaction to AAS while taking anti-depressants. Experiment, just be aware.

Regarding HRT: YOU DON'T NEED IT!
 
10001110101 said:
I am 24 years old, I recently completed my first cycle, I have been depressed for about 7 years, basically always run down, tired, unfocused, poor sleeping habits, etc. Anyways I recently completed my first 6-week cycle, and it was possibly the first time in my life I ever wanted to actually make something of myself, first time I felt like I was the person I was supposed to be, I felt like life was richer and everyone around me was better for it as a result. I was just happy with myself and yet working harder and getting more out of life than ever. College was a breeze, little things didn't get me down, I was getting laid regularly, I did little things to make my life better. I've been on many different meds for depression, tried the herbal therapies. I've used Prozac, Lexapro, Wellbutrin, SAM-e, DHEA, Fish Oil, 5-htp, everything out there to try to beat this thing. Depression has cost me so much already not to mention the years I should be getting the most of. When I came off cycle, I used proper PCT (clomid was a disaster, so i switched to aromasin) recovered fine after about 4-5 weeks and now I feel better than I did in PCT but I'm stuck back where I was before the cycle.

Pre-cycle I had my test levels checked they were midrange (around 500) anyways, what would be the implications of self-administered HRT of 250mg every 2 weeks? I understand I would be infertile during HRT and to have kids I'd have to come off and that I'd probably permanently limit my T production.

I understand that this is asking for something I'll have to do forever, but I'd rather do this forever than live the way I have been, my other options would be prozac forever with a limp-dick and countless other side effects. (not to mention SSRI's always left me feeling a little "unnatural") I dunno guess some feedback would be nice.

Get more tests done at different times to compare results....Find what exactely is wrong before you jump into anything. Natural tests levels of 500 are normal-high. Keep going to different doctors till you find the cause of the problem bro!
 
No actually 500 is in the dead middle, and could possibly be somewhat low for his age, but certainly not low enough for HRT...and why would you want it at 24 ???
Varga said:
Get more tests done at different times to compare results....Find what exactely is wrong before you jump into anything. Natural tests levels of 500 are normal-high. Keep going to different doctors till you find the cause of the problem bro!
 
you should see an endocrinologist--in conjuction with a psych doc.

self-imposed hrt at 24 could be 60+ years of TRT---you really need to have a solid discussion with professionals about this....it really is a decision that is not to be done w/o such consulatation.

there are just too many issues at stake here to make the decision alone.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/81/10/3578

Testosterone replacement therapy improves mood in hypogonadal men--a clinical research center study
C Wang, G Alexander, N Berman, B Salehian, T Davidson, V McDonald, B Steiner, L Hull, C Callegari and RS Swerdloff
Department of Medicine, Harbor-UCLA, Torrance 90509. USA. [email protected]

The effect of testosterone (T) replacement on changes in mood was studied for 60 days in 51 hypogonadal men. All patients were withdrawn from their prior T replacement for at least 6 weeks before enrollment. Of these patients, 18 received T enanthate 200 mg im every 20 days, 16 received sublingual T cyclodextrin (SLT) at a dose of 2.5 mg three times daily, and 17 received SLT at a dose of 5.0 mg three times daily. The total treatment period was 60 days. The patients were asked to respond to a questionnaire on 7 consecutive days before the start of treatment and on 7 consecutive days before their visits to the clinic on days 21, 41, and 60 of treatment. The following mood parameters were assessed using a 7-point Likert rating scale: angry, alert, irritable, full of pep (energy), sad/blue, tired, friendly, nervous, and well/good. When compared with the baseline period, T replacement led to significant decreases in anger (P = 0.0045), irritability (P = 0.0009), sadness (P = 0.0033), tiredness (P = 0.0035), and nervousness (P = 0.0291), and significant improvement in energy level (P = 0.0020), friendliness (P = 0.0072), and sense of well-being (P = 0.024) in all subjects as a group. Analyses of the area under the curve (AUC) of baseline serum T levels before T replacement showed significant positive correlations between serum T (AUC) and friendliness (r = 0.29, P < 0.05) and sense of well-being (r = 0.27, P < 0.05), and significant negative correlations with nervousness (r = -0.27, P < 0.05), irritability (r = -0.29, P < 0.05) and tiredness (r = -0.28, P < 0.05). Similar correlations were found between serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and some of the mood parameters. After T replacement in the hypogonadal men, these correlations between AUC of serum T levels and the positive and negative mood scores disappeared. These results were corroborated in a subsequent study in which 30 hypogonadal men were supplemented with SLT 5 mg three times daily for 6 months. The patients were less nervous (P = 0.0025) and more alert (P = 0.0004), friendly (P = 0.042), and energetic (P = 0.0001) during the 6-month treatment period compared with baseline. We conclude that T replacement therapy in hypogonadal men improved their positive mood parameters, such as energy, well/good feelings, and friendliness and decreased negative mood parameters including anger, nervousness, and irritability, and direct correlations between serum T and DHT with mood scores were only observed in the baseline period when serum androgen levels were below the normal range. The latter observation suggests that once a minimally adequate serum T/DHT level was achieved by T replacement therapy, further increases in serum T/DHT levels did not further contribute to the improvement in mood variables.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/160/1/105

Testosterone Gel Supplementation for Men With Refractory Depression: A Randomized, Placebo-Controlled Trial
Harrison G. Pope, Jr., M.D., Geoffrey H. Cohane, B.A., Gen Kanayama, M.D., Ph.D., Arthur J. Siegel, M.D., and James I. Hudson, M.D., Sc.D.
OBJECTIVE: Testosterone supplementation may produce antidepressant effects in men, but until recently it has required cumbersome parenteral administration. In an 8-week randomized, placebo-controlled trial, the authors administered a testosterone transdermal gel to men aged 30–65 who had refractory depression and low or borderline testosterone levels. METHOD: Of 56 men screened, 24 (42.9%) displayed morning serum total testosterone levels of 350 ng/dl or less (normal range=270–1070). Of these men, 23 entered the study. One responded to an initial 1-week single-blind placebo period, and 22 were subsequently randomly assigned: 12 to 1% testosterone gel, 10 g/day, and 10 to identical-appearing placebo. Each subject continued his existing antidepressant regimen. Ten subjects receiving testosterone and nine receiving placebo completed the 8-week trial. RESULTS: The groups were closely matched on baseline demographic and psychiatric measures. Subjects receiving testosterone gel had significantly greater improvement in scores on the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale than subjects receiving placebo. These changes were noted on both the vegetative and affective subscales of the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale. A significant difference was also found on the Clinical Global Impression severity scale but not the Beck Depression Inventory. One subject assigned to testosterone reported increased difficulty with urination, suggesting an exacerbation of benign prostatic hyperplasia; no other subject reported adverse events apparently attributable to testosterone. CONCLUSIONS: These preliminary findings suggest that testosterone gel may produce antidepressant effects in the large and probably underrecognized population of depressed men with low testosterone levels.
 
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