Saliva test AFTER results.. DERMACRINE!!

[AAP]

Ok guys, as promised when I got my second test back, at the two week mark of using DERMACRINE I would post the results. I will either scan this in or as last time when I didn't get access to a scanner, I will take a clear picture of the paper.

BEFORE RESULTS AFTER RESULTS
Date 2/26/07 3/12/07
Estrone 2.6 in range 0-3.0 2.1
Testosterone 190 High range = 44-148 202
DHEAS 15.8 range = 2-23 148.2

I think at this point it is clearcut that this stuff does indeed work.

 

[karter]

You should take the test agin in 3-4 weeks and see if you crash. That is the big question everybody wants to know.

 

[chazk]

You should take the test agin in 3-4 weeks and see if you crash. That is the big question everybody wants to know.

no doubt the dhea levels were raised but that amount of test increase is not significant enough to show a increase
slaiva test have a margin of error of up to 10% and your test didnt even raise past the margin of error on the test before and after increase

it does prove the dhea is making it through the skin just proves your body does not really convert much of it to test.But other people might have a better conversion rate then you do.

glad to see the transdermal part works real well..

to add to it your test levels were already in the high range... I would like to see someone with low test levels use the product .. I suspect the lower the test the more likley the body will convert the dhea into test and the people surpressed might be the ones getting better results then people that really dont need it in the first place.

 

[Mrpumped]

no doubt the dhea levels were raised but that amount of test increase is not significant enough to show a increase
slaiva test have a margin of error of up to 10% and your test didnt even raise past the margin of error on the test before and after increase

it does prove the dhea is making it through the skin just proves your body does not really convert much of it to test.But other people might have a better conversion rate then you do.

glad to see the transdermal part works real well..

to add to it your test levels were already in the high range... I would like to see someone with low test levels use the product .. I suspect the lower the test the more likley the body will convert the dhea into test and the people surpressed might be the ones getting better results then people that really dont need it in the first place.

Agreed. I couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Primordial Performance]

no doubt the dhea levels were raised but that amount of test increase is not significant enough to show a increase
slaiva test have a margin of error of up to 10% and your test didnt even raise past the margin of error on the test before and after increase

it does prove the dhea is making it through the skin just proves your body does not really convert much of it to test.But other people might have a better conversion rate then you do.

glad to see the transdermal part works real well..

to add to it your test levels were already in the high range... I would like to see someone with low test levels use the product .. I suspect the lower the test the more likley the body will convert the dhea into test and the people surpressed might be the ones getting better results then people that really dont need it in the first place.

Yes, this is true… if would have been nice to see a higher increase in test levels.

Its likely that AAP would benefit more from Derma Sustain as it would cause a more direct stimulation of testosterone from the testes, without relying on DHEA to covert to test. Derma Sustain will have a much more positive effect on LH and FSH.

A recent Dermacrine tester got his results back which showed a 600% increase in test levels after 2 weeks, and he started with similar test levels to AAP. This just goes to show the drastic difference in the conversion rate of DHEA to test in different people, no mater what levels they started out with. – All the more reason for the release of the new formula.

-Pp

 

[karter]

Yes, this is true… if would have been nice to see a higher increase in test levels.

Its likely that AAP would benefit more from Derma Sustain as it would cause a more direct stimulation of testosterone from the testes, without relying on DHEA to covert to test. Derma Sustain will have a much more positive effect on LH and FSH.

A recent Dermacrine tester got his results back which showed a 600% increase in test levels after 2 weeks, and he started with similar test levels to AAP. This just goes to show the drastic difference in the conversion rate of DHEA to test in different people, no mater what levels they started out with. – All the more reason for the release of the new formula.

-Pp

Good idea, release the new formula. It cost more money. Make since to me. And when that the new one does not work their will be another new one to try that is even better and even more expensive. End result they got your money!!!

 

[AAP]

Ok, considering that I already had high test levels before using it I can see why I didn't get a huge increase like that sissy needto who has the test levels of a girl scout. LOL

But I have always recovered fast. I have never done any PCT of any kind. My last cycle was 1 gram test weekly, 800mg EQ weekly and 3ius of GH daily and I didn't do any PCT and still came back with high levels of test.

Just the fact that it did do something shows what I said all along when I said that I "felt" it working. Someone with lower test levels would certainly get a better response than I did.

 

[AAP]

You should take the test agin in 3-4 weeks and see if you crash. That is the big question everybody wants to know.

I won't be able to answer that. I plan to start my cycle very soon.

 

[needtogetaas]

Ok, considering that I already had high test levels before using it I can see why I didn't get a huge increase like that sissy needto who has the test levels of a girl scout. LOL

But I have always recovered fast. I have never done any PCT of any kind. My last cycle was 1 gram test weekly, 800mg EQ weekly and 3ius of GH daily and I didn't do any PCT and still came back with high levels of test.

Just the fact that it did do something shows what I said all along when I said that I "felt" it working. Someone with lower test levels would certainly get a better response than I did.

wtf aap I thought you loved me.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Ok, considering that I already had high test levels before using it I can see why I didn't get a huge increase like that sissy needto who has the test levels of a girl scout. LOL

But I have always recovered fast. I have never done any PCT of any kind. My last cycle was 1 gram test weekly, 800mg EQ weekly and 3ius of GH daily and I didn't do any PCT and still came back with high levels of test.

Just the fact that it did do something shows what I said all along when I said that I "felt" it working. Someone with lower test levels would certainly get a better response than I did.

Even though the DHEA may not be getting rapidly converted to testosterone, it still has to convert to something. Unfortunately, the saliva tests cant test for the levels of androstenedione, androstenediol, androstenetriol, ect.— all of which are direct metabolites of DHEA and are sure to be boosted.

-Pp

 

[solidspine]

Just the fact that it did do something shows what I said all along when I said that I "felt" it working. Someone with lower test levels would certainly get a better response than I did.

I wonder what your numbers will look like after your cycle?

 

[AAP]

I wonder what your numbers will look like after your cycle?

Maybe I should order a test kit and see what they read out.

 

[Stryker1992]

Yes, this is true… if would have been nice to see a higher increase in test levels.

Its likely that AAP would benefit more from Derma Sustain as it would cause a more direct stimulation of testosterone from the testes, without relying on DHEA to covert to test. Derma Sustain will have a much more positive effect on LH and FSH.

A recent Dermacrine tester got his results back which showed a 600% increase in test levels after 2 weeks, and he started with similar test levels to AAP. This just goes to show the drastic difference in the conversion rate of DHEA to test in different people, no mater what levels they started out with. – All the more reason for the release of the new formula.

-Pp

Yah bro, that is why I am going to be using the Derma Sustain. I am going to using it for PCT after a test cycle. I will let all my bros know how it goes!

 

[the_clockwork]

awesome.. im gonna try some

 

[beenieman]

I'm so fucking lost on all of this PCT stuff. I haven't started my first cycle yet but it seems the more I read the more confused I get. Guess I'll just throw a dart against the wall to choose my PCT!

 

[needtogetaas]

I'm so fucking lost on all of this PCT - post cycle therapy - stuff. I haven't started my first cycle yet but it seems the more I read the more confused I get. Guess I'll just throw a dart against the wall to choose my PCT!

you need help man.just send me a pm and ill lay it all out for you.

 

[beenieman]

you need help man.just send me a pm and ill lay it all out for you.

Ok bro... PM coming your way!

 

[njmuscleguy]

I didn't get bloodwork after running Derma for 2 weeks, but I don't need a blood test to tell me it was making me feel good! I would definitely recommend it for a nice boost in between cycles, or even as a mild cycle (maybe coupled with an oral).

I had initial bloodwork done after running Sustain for 4 weeks...My test didn't go up quite as high as I was hoping, but then again, I typically have problems with that, plus it was a bit early. I am now running an additional 4 weeks of Sustain... I'm feeling better and better every day. I will have bloodwork done again after 4 weeks. Update to come.

 

[Mrpumped]

Ok guys, anabolic steroids promised when I got my second test back, at the two week mark of using DERMACRINE I would post the results. I will either scan this in or anabolic steroids last time when I didn't get access to a scanner, I will take a clear picture of the paper.

BEFORE RESULTS AFTER RESULTS
Date 2/26/07 3/12/07
Estrone 2.6 in range 0-3.0 2.1
Testosterone 190 High range = 44-148 202
DHEAS 15.8 range = 2-23 148.2

I think at this point it is clearcut that this stuff does indeed work.

Sorry brother but the saliva test only checks for E1 and doesn't check for E2. So it really isn't clear yet and I bet you no one will challenge this fact. Without the results from the E2 test there is no evidence of recovery.

 

[AAP]

Sorry brother but the saliva test only checks for E1 and doesn't check for E2. So it really isn't clear yet and I bet you no one will challenge this fact. Without the results from the E2 test there is no evidence of recovery.

I am not sure about recovery... as I was not on cycle and hadn't been for a while, so I was not suppressed before I started the use.

 

[Mrpumped]

I am not sure about recovery... anabolic steroids I was not on cycle and hadn't been for a while, so I was not suppressed before I started the use.

My bad brother as far as you not being on but if used for PCT alone then recovery isn't going to happen. HCG, Nolva, Clomid and an AI will work for recovery. The added Dermacrine will just aid it.

 

[needtogetaas]

My bad brother anabolic steroids far anabolic steroids you not being on but if used for PCT - post cycle therapy - alone then recovery isn't going to happen. HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - , Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , Clomid and an aromatase inhibitor will work for recovery. The added Dermacrine will just aid it.

thats a line of bullshit.....this thread is prof derma works.clomid is toxic shit imo
derma works and hundreds of people on this site have and are using it for pct so please stop with the bullshit.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Sorry brother but the saliva test only checks for E1 and doesn't check for E2. So it really isn't clear yet and I bet you no one will challenge this fact. Without the results from the E2 test there is no evidence of recovery.

This is something Ulter tried to use to discredit the saliva tests...

There is no connection between “recovery” and E2 levels. In fact, Im not even sure what you’re implying… That E2 should be low to symbolize recovery? Because that certainly wouldn’t be true.

E1 is just as biologically important as E2 and E1/E2 follow the ratio of androstenedione/testosterone in the body. The only reason we tested E1 was to estimate the amount of androstenedione conversion he was getting, since the saliva tests cannot test for androstenedione.

-Pp

 

[orat]

Hey Pp, earlier in the thread you said that the rather significant amounts of DHEA in the OP's body, "has to convert into something" and then named a few of the hormones DHEA is converted into.

Why is this true? Is it possible for DHEA to be broken down or otherwise converted into inactive metabolites rather than the beneficial hormones you listed, at any rate?

FYI- I am currently using Dermacrine, almost 2 weeks out now from the end of my last cycle. I feel great- libido is more than intact, have kept all my strength gains and even added a bit, and have more energy even though I've cut back on caffeine intake drastically. My wife uses one lotion pump a day and wants to fuck all the time so that's a bonus too.

 

[ceo]

Ok, considering that I already had high test levels before using it I can see why I didn't get a huge increase like that sissy needto who has the test levels of a girl scout. LOL

But I have always recovered fast. I have never done any PCT - post cycle therapy - of any kind. My last cycle was 1 gram test weekly, 800mg Equipoise - boldenone undecylenate - weekly and 3ius of gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - daily and I didn't do any PCT and still came back with high levels of test.

Just the fact that it did do something shows what I said all along when I said that I "felt" it working. Someone with lower test levels would certainly get a better response than I did.

How long did you run that cycle?

 

[Primordial Performance]

Hey Pp, earlier in the thread you said that the rather significant amounts of DHEA in the OP's body, "has to convert into something" and then named a few of the hormones DHEA is converted into.

Why is this true? Is it possible for DHEA to be broken down or otherwise converted into inactive metabolites rather than the beneficial hormones you listed, at any rate?

FYI- I am currently using Dermacrine, almost 2 weeks out now from the end of my last cycle. I feel great- libido is more than intact, have kept all my strength gains and even added a bit, and have more energy even though I've cut back on caffeine intake drastically. My wife uses one lotion pump a day and wants to fuck all the time so that's a bonus too.

That is great news bro!

To answer your question, yes some DHEA can become sulfated and excreted by the urine, but most of it is converted to other active metabolites, which are not converted to inactive metabolites untill way further down the line... which then convert to chalones, phermones and all kinds of cool stuff.

If there was a more standard method of measuring the fat burning metabolites 7alpha, 7keto, 7beta DHEA… and the anabolic androstenedione, androstenediol, androstenetriol you would see them go way above baseline, no doubt. So even if you don’t see testosterone go up, your will still be a more anabolic/fat burning state because of the other metabolites.

You can see all of these hormones and pathways on the hormone tree here –
http://www.primordialperformance.com/hormone_tree.cfm

-Pp

 

[Big Rick Rock]

That is great news bro!

To answer your question, yes some DHEA can become sulfated and excreted by the urine, but most of it is converted to other active metabolites, which are not converted to inactive metabolites untill way further down the line... which then convert to chalones, phermones and all kinds of cool stuff.

If there was a more standard method of measuring the fat burning metabolites 7alpha, 7keto, 7beta DHEA… and the anabolic androstenedione, androstenediol, androstenetriol you would see them go way above baseline, no doubt. So even if you don’t see testosterone go up, your will still be a more anabolic/fat burning state because of the other metabolites.

You can see all of these hormones and pathways on the hormone tree here –
http://www.primordialperformance.com/hormone_tree.cfm

-Pp

I loved that part of your site!

 

[Mrpumped]

This is something Ulter tried to use to discredit the saliva tests...

There is no connection between “recovery” and E2 levels. In fact, Im not even sure what you’re implying… That E2 should be low to symbolize recovery? Because that certainly wouldn’t be true.

E1 is just as biologically important as E2 and E1/E2 follow the ratio of androstenedione/testosterone in the body. The only reason we tested E1 was to estimate the amount of androstenedione conversion he was getting, since the saliva tests cannot test for androstenedione.

-Pp

The E2 test will prove that the level of estrogen has been lowered to signify raised testosterone levels which will lead to recovery. I don't even know what Ulter has to do with this. For all those that used Dermacrine for PCT, weren't they still using HCG and/or Clomid? So what's the use of this high priced supp if people still need to use, allready established, PCT medications?

 

[Pikaberdot]

I'd still rather go with a product developed by a pharmaceutical company over an OTC supplement. Especially since I know for a fact that Clomid works for me. If it works, why would I change it?

 

[AAP]

How long did you run that cycle?

17-18 weeks... something like that. I never count the time I am on, I just stay on until I "know" it is time to come off. Then I stay off until I am ready to go back on. Though my off time is quite long, the shortest I stayed off was about 7 months before.

 

[Primordial Performance]

The E2 test will prove that the level of estrogen has been lowered to signify raised testosterone levels which will lead to recovery. I don't even know what Ulter has to do with this. For all those that used Dermacrine for PCT - post cycle therapy - , weren't they still using HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and/or Clomid? So what's the use of this high priced supp if people still need to use, allready established, PCT medications?

Lowering E2 shouldn’t be your #1 goal in recovery. Clomid and Nolva both raise E2… and both those drugs work quite well at raising test. You can see E2 results on our site, which slightly increase if test increases. (as it should) Either way, we don’t promote original Derma for PCT anymore as we have developed a more appropriate version (Sustain). The original is still a great androgen and testosterone booster though… and it does a fine job of controlling both E1 and E2 and keeping them in normal range were they should be.

AAP wasn’t using hCG or Clomid, one tester had used hCG before starting Derma, most of them only on the Dermacrine. (we had about 10 different testers on different boards)

Pikaberdot,

It’s the toxicity of these SERMs which should keep people away. I wrote an extensive article on this topic –

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/potratz/pct-protocols.htm

-Pp

 

[needtogetaas]

The E2 test will prove that the level of estrogen has been lowered to signify raised testosterone levels which will lead to recovery. I don't even know what Ulter has to do with this. For all those that used Dermacrine for PCT - post cycle therapy - , weren't they still using HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and/or Clomid? So what's the use of this high priced supp if people still need to use, allready established, PCT medications?

wrong again as always.......there were only a handful of people using clomid well using derma "and they were told they dont need it"
as for hcg it shouls be use during cycle or after regardless if you using clomid or derma so whats your dame point.

 

[ceo]

17-18 weeks... something like that. I never count the time I am on, I just stay on until I "know" it is time to come off. Then I stay off until I am ready to go back on. Though my off time is quite long, the shortest I stayed off was about 7 months before.

NICE! No PCT and still bounced back??? How long did it take to recover? You're a genetic marvel!

 

[Mrpumped]

wrong again as always.......there were only a handful of people using clomid well using derma "and they were told they dont need it"
as for HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - it shouls be use during cycle or after regardless if you using clomid or derma so whats your dame point.

I'm not wrong. That's why they made a new version. Hopefully now it works better.

 

[needtogetaas]

I'm not wrong. That's why they made a new version. Hopefully now it works better.

go back read the post I you made.that post was "wrong" thank you.

and reg derma worked for a lot of people still works the just made a better one for pct.not one because the other did not work.get it got it good.

 

[MADBALL99]

OK so this teast actually proved nothing signifigant, especially for people trying to revover after a cycle or due to LOW test.



So far I see alot of hype, but no HARD facts or SOLID numbers for people trying to recover from low test. So far this seems like ANOTHER scam. Until we see SOLID numbers, from several people this is just snake oil IMO.

 

[needtogetaas]

OK so this teast actually proved nothing signifigant, especially for people trying to revover after a cycle or due to LOW test.



So far I see alot of hype, but no HARD facts or SOLID numbers for people trying to recover from low test. So far this seems like ANOTHER scam. Until we see SOLID numbers, from several people this is just snake oil IMO.

once again bull crap!!!!!

here is my test results its at the end of dermacrin....

test was very very low and estro was extremely high at the start.after derma test was back to a med normal range and so was estro....

 

[needtogetaas]

and that was after a long cycle of test/deca/dbol

 

[Primordial Performance]

OK so this teast actually proved nothing signifigant, especially for people trying to revover after a cycle or due to LOW test.

So far I see alot of hype, but no HARD facts or SOLID numbers for people trying to recover from low test. So far this seems like ANOTHER scam. Until we see SOLID numbers, from several people this is just snake oil IMO.

We do have some solid test results from Dermacrine with guys who boosted their T about 600%. Still, measuring just T is a poor way of testing the true effectiveness of Dermacrine… since some guys wont have a big increase in T because of their lower conversion capacity. In this case, much of the positive results come from the androstenediol, androstenedione, and DHEA metabolites... all viable beneficial hormones which don’t have a popular standardized testing method.

-Pp