RyanH - 20 years to life?

[Warik]

So, you were in favor of the school punishing the boy for creating that awful drawing of a gun.

What about that waste of human flesh who killed his teacher and was just convicted of second degree murder? (Which should have been first degree!)

Do you think he should get 20 years? Do you think he should get life? Do you think he should have been charged with first degree murder and put to death?

You seem to be so vehement about punishing children for doing awful things like drawing guns, which could lead to horrible violence. What is your opinion now as to what we should do to someone who took one of these evil WEAPONS OF DEATH, walked into his school, and INTENTIONALLY SHOT HIS TEACHER IN THE FACE, thereby killing him.

What should we do with him?

You're the judge. Sentence him.

-Warik

 

[May1010]

Hey Angel Tits,


You didn't ask, but IMHO:


I think he should be incarcerated, but not for 20 plus years.

I suggest a place where he can get counseling, complete his high school education, and then be released upon completion of either a vocational program or something like that.

He needs to serve time. But, he also needs to be counseled. ... and he needs to learn some skills that will serve him well upon his release.

 

[satanic goatslayer]

Counselling? Vocational training?

I've got the best idea for counselling.

Death.

Vocational training?

I hear corpses are in high demand right now.

 

[RyanH]

Do you think he should get 20 years? Do you think he should get life? Do you think he should have been charged with first degree murder and put to death?

You seem to be so vehement about punishing children for doing awful things like drawing guns, which could lead to horrible violence. What is your opinion now as to what we should do to someone who took one of these evil WEAPONS OF DEATH, walked into his school, and INTENTIONALLY SHOT HIS TEACHER IN THE FACE, thereby killing him.

You're the judge. Sentence him.

-Warik

Warik, as usual, you attempt to trap someone....to find an inconsistency in one's argument---a nobel effort-- at best.

I never said that the child who drew a picture of a gun should receive a stiff sentence, only that he should be suspended from school. Any punishment beyond that would be futile.

In the present case, this child should not be sentenced to anywhere near 20 years. The whole purpose of sentencing a wrong-doer is not to exact revenge on him, but to reform him and once again make him a citizen capable of co-existing with the rest of society. In other words, instead of focusing on revenge, we should be focused on "how do we make this kid capable of becoming a worthy citizen again?"

The answer to that lies in placing the child into the juvenile justice system, not the criminal justice system where he will certainly not be reformed but sodomized, raped, or perhaps even killed.

The kid, as May1010 pointed out, needs counseling, and possibly a short incarceration in a juvenile center. To do anything else, would become only revenge. And again, revenge is not what we should be concerned with. Instead, our focus should be on REFORM............

 

[Warik]

RyanH, how is suspension from school a way to "reform" the student and "once again make him a citizen capable of co-existing with the rest of society?" Actually, when did the student who drew the gun NOT become a citizen capable of co-existing with the rest of society? Was the suspension of the student an attempt for "reform," or was it a punishment for no crime?

"The whole purpose of sentencing a wrong-doer is not to exact revenge on him?" Where do you get this information? Is your belief suddenly the popular belief?

Why do you think some crimes result in stiffer penalties than others? Perhaps because the crime itself was worse and thus the punishment must be? Is it POSSIBLE that the real purpose of sentencing a wrong-doer is to keep him outside of society where he belongs? Society is a place of peace. Those who disrupt that peace do not belong in that society. That is what prisons are for, if you didn't know.

What about Timothy McVeigh? Should we try to reform him?

He has admitted to perpetrating the act - would you defend him in a court of law, Mr. Lawyer?

-Warik

 

[Warik]

WARIK

YOU MUST ANSWER IN WITTY, ONE LINE RESPONSES DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stfu, bitch. Don't make me draw you getting shot.

-Warik

 

[pauly]

Great arguments but I'm with May.

 

[Jimsbbc]

I will only comment on the kid who shot his teacher. The disturbing part of this is that the kid was an honor student with no criminal history. I think this is one who could have been a contribution to society. Honestly, I think on the last day of school, the excitement got to him and he made a very bad decision. So in one act of stupidity, he turned into a menace to society. I do not think he is fit for society. He did the crime, he can do the time. The kids think they can be like the rappers singin about cappin some mark that pissed him off. A friend of his mentioned that he said watch- tommorrow I will be all over the news. This shit is glorified now= instant notoriety.

 

[thermo]

Thats screwed up you have 14 year old kids running around poppin caps in there teachers. I feel sorry for the kid because he is only 14 and has a life ahead of him, but on the other hand what the hell was this little punk thinking? There is a teacher dead, that was trying to educate this kid. I think he got what he deserved. I believe he was sentenced to 20 years, in which probably he will only serve 15. Worse comes to worse for him and he does the whole 20 year stint, he will be 34 when he gets out. Maybe he will see the light on the inside , who knows.

 

[chesty]

First for the kid who drew a gun. What if he drew a knife? What if he drew a 1974 pontiac? What if he drew a rope? What if he drew a needle? What if he drew a pen? What if he drew God? What if he drew saran wrap? What if he drew two hands?

All of those items can and have been used as weapons to kill.

What happened to the First Amendment? Is it suspended for those under 18 or still in high school?

Suspension is not an answer to any problem. If I wanted out of school I would just get my ass suspended! Instead they should stay in school but have extra duty just like the military.

As for the kid who killed his teacher. He knew what he was doing, he may not have been able to comprehend fully the choice of his actions, but he knew he was killing his teacher, he knew that shooting a person in the face with a real gun would kill that person.

Twenty years? Is not enough. At minimum he should get life in prison at hard labor. It is hard to imagine and more so for me having two young sons and three daughters that I might be faced with the same situation. And while I would be heartbroken to see one of my children incarcerated or put to death, they did wrong and have to pay. All I could do is to pray that they somehow ended up in a better place with a better chance than I gave them.

It is also unfair to compare the boy who drew a gun to the kid that killed his teacher.

And for RyanH, I anticapate your response as I already know how it will read. You my son, are a bafoon looking to get your lame ass whooped on the street. I for one wouldn't choose you to defend me or anyone I knew period. I would rather be whipped with a cat of nine tails and dipped in an alcohol/salt solution first.

 

[RyanH]

Chesty...I would never ask you to defend me.....I can and have done that myself. If anything, you seem to want to bully the underdog---I want to protect him.

You've overdosed on machoism without substance.

 

[BO-CEPHUS]

The kid who killed his teacher should be put to death. You kill someone, than you die. It is that fucking simple.

 

[chesty]

I never said I would defend you. I am not against the underdog, but your idealisms are dangerous for this country and god forbid that others might think as you do. You are not liberal or leftist you are nuts! a lunatic if you will who lives in an isolated individualistic idealic society within your own mind. Well buuuudy, it don't exist out here in the real world.

Told you I knew how you would respond.

 

[HeavyDutyGuy]

An Honor student knows perfectly well that killing is wrong and should bear the consequences. Period.

 

[WODIN]

They should take him back to his Jr. High and Hang is ass in the auditorium in front of the whole student body!

 

[The Varnsen]

A 14 year old put to death? Isn´t there a way to reform the kid? He´s still very young, he can be reeducated, you guys are extremists... You should think about it as if he was your son... 14 year olds put to death only in Ruanda or Afganistan... He has been corrupted by the society in which he lives!!!
As for the kid drawing a gun... Well in that case its a wrong decision to suspend him... But what was he thinking? There has to be more to that story...

 

[TxCollegeguy]

I still think there had to be more to the story about the kid drawing the gun, probably the media did right the whole story.

Varn over the past 30 years our society has seen what the "rehab" does for our criminals. In most circumstances the come out of prison a bit more harsh and commit more crimes. Every so often there are those who come out of "rehab" and change there lives. Prison numbers were down back when Hard labor was a requirment of those in prison. I personally wish they would bring those days back. Get rid of the cable, the weights, and make them work for those meals. Make a real contribution to society

 

[john937]

Question - in the case of the kid that shot his teacher -
How many years DID the court asses his punishment ?
(not what you want, but what actually happened)

 

[TxCollegeguy]

he doesn't get sentenced till June, the judge has alot of discretion to decide punishment, but a mandatory sentence for the crime according the Court tv people say a min of 20-life

 

[chesty]

My friend and supervisor while I was a Deputy was killed by so called kid who under went years of rehabilitation.

Another of our Deputy's was killed by a fourteen year old gang member, who had stolen a car, his father's gun and then shot the Deputy 3 or 4 times, then took the Deputy's gun.

Now, should I rehabilitate this "little" innocent of God?

 

[TxCollegeguy]

Chesty all to many times people forget about the men and women who lay their life on the line for their community. Some people who are troubled can be helped but for those cold blooded enough to take someones life I wont have pitty when their time comes

 

[The Varnsen]

The thing is: Here in Europe we don´t have the death penalty, and we have a much lower crime rate... I don´t think that that kind of revenge fixes anything... Its the socitety itself that has to be fixed...
If the kid hadn´t access to the gun he wouldn´t have commited that crime... Seing how difficult it would be to get it done he would have thought twice...

 

[TxCollegeguy]

the kid stole the gun from the faimly unless I missunderstood.

If he wouldn't have used a gun he would have had a knife or something else

 

[tomcat]

IMO It is impossible to forcefully rehabilitate someone.
The Penal system can provide the opportunity for rehabilitation (Education, counseling etc) but ultimately it is up to the Individuals desires or lack thereof to once again be a member of society.

In recorded history, Incarceration has NOT been designed to reform or rehabilitate individuals.

It was meant as a way of simply segregating those individuals from society found guilty. Either temporarily or permanently, depending on the crime.

Only recently have we come up with this idea that we can rehabilitate anyone.

 

[RyanH]

The thing is: Here in Europe we don´t have the death penalty, and we have a much lower crime rate... I don´t think that that kind of revenge fixes anything... Its the socitety itself that has to be fixed...
If the kid hadn´t access to the gun he wouldn´t have commited that crime... Seing how difficult it would be to get it done he would have thought twice...

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER!!!!

 

[RyanH]

What about Timothy McVeigh? Should we try to reform him?

He has admitted to perpetrating the act - would you defend him in a court of law, Mr. Lawyer?

-Warik

Mr. McVeigh is beyond help. He is, in fact, the only person whom I have ever believed deserved the death penalty----Primarily for his lack of remorse at taking so many innocent lives.

But as a matter of policy and principle I am still staunchly opposed to the state acting as an avenger.

 

[The Varnsen]

Timmy McVeigh is a harder version of these fools we have here...

 

[Cleaner]

Has anyone ever know anyone to be reformed in prison?I have some family memebers that will die in prison from stupidty. It all they know -- they get out and they look for a way to go back.


I can make an effective gun out of sipmle house hold items. I guess we are going to have to go after bullets to.

 

[MP5]

In think they should kill anyone that murders someone regardless of age. I really don't want that little black bastard getting out at age 34 and moving in next door.

I drew a picture of my teacher getting blasted in half with a shotgun in highschool and another teacher found it in the trash and gave it to him. I never heard another word about it. Needless to say he gave me an F in his class. Get this, it was a weight lifting class and I had a broken arm cast all the way to the armpit so I could not do shit. And he was going to give me a D. So I drew a pic showing how much I hated him.

 

[The Varnsen]

You said he is a "little black kid"... I didn´t know he was black till now... Does that matter? Why do you guys take all the issues to the the racial aspect?

 

[RyanH]

You said he is a "little black kid"... I didn´t know he was black till now... Does that matter? Why do you guys take all the issues to the the racial aspect?

Because he is a racist....plain and simple.

 

[TxCollegeguy]

I didn't know indicating someones race made one a racists. Cause we should just throw out all the Race questions on applications huh

 

[chesty]

First, once again as I posted the results of a study done by a European College, Europe and Australia have a much higher violent crime rate than the USA.

Second, black white asian whatever, he shot the teacher he fries.

Wonder what would have happened if he was the kid who drew the gun instead. Would they have led him away in handcuffs? Hmmmmmmmmmmm?