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Recovery

D

DrJMW

New member
I have posted this recovery cycle many times. Since this is a new category, I will repost. This recovery cycle works 100% of the time. In extreme cases, it actually needs to be done twice. This recovery cycle is predicated on the fact that the athlete has something to recover. Baseline blood testing of testosterone levels, estradiol levels, and prolactin levels will tell the athlete the whole story. If the athlete's baseline Testos levels are low to low-normal of the range, then recovery is a waste of time. If the athlete's levels are in the middle, then a recovery cycle may be worth it to see the body's reaction.

Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.
 
DrJMW said:
I have posted this recovery cycle many times. Since this is a new category, I will repost. This recovery cycle works 100% of the time. In extreme cases, it actually needs to be done twice. This recovery cycle is predicated on the fact that the athlete has something to recover. Baseline blood testing of testosterone levels, estradiol levels, and prolactin levels will tell the athlete the whole story. If the athlete's baseline Testos levels are low to low-normal of the range, then recovery is a waste of time. If the athlete's levels are in the middle, then a recovery cycle may be worth it to see the body's reaction.

Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.
Click to expand...

I think this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again...at what point is HCG necessary? I did a short (4.5 week) cycle of testosterone, anavar and for the last week Halotestin and experienced zero testicular shrinkage, so I decided against HCG for that, and for another reason...

Isn't it true that HCG inhibits your body from producing LH? In my limited understanding of the HPTA access and steroids, the one thing that I've read (somewhat conclusively) is the fact that after a steroid cycle it's LH that's suppressed which causes the testosterone suppression, not the other way around. I also recall reading that there are VERY few anabolic steroids that suppress the testicles directly, rather they inhibit LH production.

If the above is true (if it's not then please correct me) then wouldn't it stand to reason to use HCG as a last resort and Clomid as the first line of defense?

My PCT which seems to be working damn well entails Arimidex (which in and of itself has an effect on increasing LH) and a moderate dose of Clomid - 100 mg for 4 days, then 50 mgs for 10. I'll be getting my bloodwork done in 2 weeks, so we'll see if I made the right choices.

I had my bloodwork done prior so I do have something to compare it to.
 
Hey Doc! It is of my preference to use HCG during the cycle, but I like your recovery protocol. Now that I can get my accutane I'm going to do a test+EQ cycle for 10 weeks.

Cycle will be as follows:
Week 1-10: 200mg Test Enan
Week 1-10: 200mg EQ
Week 2-10: 500IU HCG (250IU Mon + 250IU Thurs)

Recovery will be as follows:
Week 12-17: 20mg Nolvadex daily

I will have arimidex on hand just in case. Thoughts?
 
DrJMW said:
I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.
Click to expand...

I cant stress how important the above statements are.

DrJMW,

My standard PCT protocol is almost identical to yours except my dosage of HCG is 1,500 IU's which is primarily due to what is regulary available amongst other minor factors such as genetic predispositions.

Is there any particular reason for continuing treatment with Clomid? I might be missing out on something but the clinical effectiveness, benefits and risks don't seem to justify administration. Why not continue it with HCG? If the test readings show that the patient has not responded as expected, wouldn't you continue the HCG and Nolvadex therapy until the desired or acceptable levels are achieved?

Thanks in advance.

Jenetic
 
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Jenetic said:
I cant stress how important the above statements are.

DrJMW,

My standard PCT protocol is almost identical to yours except my dosage of HCG is 1,500 IU's which is primarily due to what is regulary available amongst other minor factors such as genetic predispositions.

Is there any particular reason for continuing treatment with Clomid? I might be missing out on something but the clinical effectiveness, benefits and risks don't seem to justify administration. Why not continue it with HCG? If the test readings show that the patient has not responded as expected, wouldn't you continue the HCG and Nolvadex therapy until the desired or acceptable levels are achieved?

Thanks in advance.

Jenetic
Click to expand...



Eh Bro, ... I believe that the SERMS remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the HCG therapy has been stopped, to further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels.
 
I think this question was asked before, but I'll ask it again...at what point is HCG necessary? I did a short (4.5 week) cycle of testosterone, anavar and for the last week Halotestin and experienced zero testicular shrinkage, so I decided against HCG for that, and for another reason...

HERE IS THE PROBLEM. JUDGING SHRINKAGE IS SUBJECTIVE. THE RECOMMENDED USE OF HCG (THREE WHOLE WEEKS, THREE TIMES A WEEK AT THE SUGGESTED DOSES) IS NOT HARMFUL. 95% OF THE USERS DO HAVE SOME SHRINKAGE. SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATION IS UNRELIABLE.

Isn't it true that HCG inhibits your body from producing LH? In my limited understanding of the HPTA access and steroids, the one thing that I've read (somewhat conclusively) is the fact that after a steroid cycle it's LH that's suppressed which causes the testosterone suppression, not the other way around. I also recall reading that there are VERY few anabolic steroids that suppress the testicles directly, rather they inhibit LH production.

THERE IS SOME SUPPRESSION, BUT SO WHAT? THE IMMEDIATE GOAL IN THE FIRST THREE WEEKS OF RECOVERY IS TO GET THE TESTES BACK UP TO SIZE. LH SECRETIONS RECOVER VERY RAPIDLY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE CYCLE, YOU SEE THAT NOLVA IS CONTINUED FOR THREE MORE WEEKS. THIS IS TO ENSURE A RAPID RECOVERY OF THE LH SECRETIONS.

If the above is true (if it's not then please correct me) then wouldn't it stand to reason to use HCG as a last resort and Clomid as the first line of defense?

NO. YOUR THINKING IS FUZZY.

My PCT which seems to be working damn well entails Arimidex (which in and of itself has an effect on increasing LH) and a moderate dose of Clomid - 100 mg for 4 days, then 50 mgs for 10. I'll be getting my bloodwork done in 2 weeks, so we'll see if I made the right choices.

AGAIN, IF YOUR PCT WORKS FOR YOU, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE. THE HCG/NOLVADEX/CLOMID RECOVERY CYCLE HAS BEEN USED BY ENDOCRINOLOGISTS FOR YEARS. AS FAR AS USING BLOOD TESTING, YOU WILL NEED TO POST YOUR BASELINE READINGS TO SEE THE COMPARISON. I HAVE FOUND NO STUDIES NOR HAVE I SEEN ANY INCREASES IN LH BECAUSE OF ARIMIDEX ALONE. IF YOU USED ARIMIDEX DURING THE CYCLE, YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS ARE ALREADY LOW. YOUW ANT YOUR ESTROGEN LEVELS TO RECOVER AS WELL, SO USING ARIMIDEX DURING PCT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. I HAVE SEEN TOO MANY FAILING PCT'S WHEN THE MAJORITY OF ATHLETES STRAY FROM BASIC, PROVEN RECOVERY CYCLES.

I had my bloodwork done prior so I do have something to compare it to.[/QUOTE]

GREAT. WE WILL AWAIT THE COMPARISON. YOU WILL ALSO NEED TO POST THE MEDS, DOSING AND FREQUENCY TAKEN PRIOR TO RECOVERY AS WELL AS EXACT DOSING, MEDS, FREQUENCY OF THE RECOVERY CYCLE.

IT SEEMS YOUR BASIC PREMISE IS THAT HCG IS NOT NEEDED IF SUBJECTIVE OBSERVATIONS OF NO TESTICULAR SHRINKAGE HAS OCCURRED. AGAIN, THE MAJORITY OF USERS EXPERIENCE SHRINKAGE..YOU KNOW THIS FROM JUST READING THE FAILURES OF PCT ON THE BOARD.
 
I am curious. I know this has never failed for you patients. Does this also mean that you recommend their cycles? Is it usually Test and Decca? Anything else? I never see you mention anything else like D-bol . Obviously you can expect consistent results if you already know what to expect. What if someone who wasn't a regular patient came and needed PCT. Is this what you would always recommend him. What if it doesn't work?

Victor
 
Last edited:
VictorBR said:
I am curious. I know this has never failed for you patients. Does this also mean that you recommend their cycles? Is it usually Test and Decca? Anything else? I never see you mention anything else like D-bol . Obviously you can expect consistent results if you already know what to expect. What if someone who wasn't a regular patient came and needed PCT. Is this what you would always recommend him. What if it doesn't work?

IT SHOULD WORK FOR ALL AAS. I ONLY RECOMMEND CYCLES WITH AAS THAT IS FDA-APPROVED, HENCE I NEVER MENTION D-BOL, TREN, ETC. THE PRINCIPLES ARE THE SAME. THE RECOMMENDED PCT HAS WORKED ON EVERYONE, EVEN THOSE SHUT DOWN FOR MONTHS WITH TREN, D-BOL, ETC. IT HAS BEEN STANDARD TREATMENT FOR ENDOCRINOLOGISTS FOR YEARS.

IF THE RECOMMENDED RECOVERY CYCLE FAILS AFTER TWO ATTEMPTS, THE USER WILL REQUIRE HRT INDEFINITELY. HE EITHER HAS A FAILURE OF THE TESTES OR A FAILURE OF THE PITUITARY--BLOOD TESTS WILL REVEAL WHERE THE PROBLEM IS. ANOTEHR REASON FOR BASELINE BLOOD TESTING.

Victor
Click to expand...
 
Bump....the recommended recovery cycle is the first post. This works for all AAS cycles (heavy, prolonged, or both). It also assumes that you have something to recover. If your natural, baseline testosterone levels are low to low-normal, do not expect the recovery cycle to significantly raise these levels. For low-to low-normal baseline athletes, I recommend that they stay "on" to maintain gains..and there are many ways to do maintenance..but they all require AAS.
 
DrJMW said:
Bump....the recommended recovery cycle is the first post. This works for all AAS cycles (heavy, prolonged, or both). It also assumes that you have something to recover. If your natural, baseline testosterone levels are low to low-normal, do not expect the recovery cycle to significantly raise these levels. For low-to low-normal baseline athletes, I recommend that they stay "on" to maintain gains..and there are many ways to do maintenance..but they all require AAS.
Click to expand...

BUMP to the top
 
I have always had problems with recovery I just could never get it right. One of the reasons is because i cycle to long (15-18 weeks) Im going to try the Docs method for the first time. I really hope it works...my cycles are complete rollercoasters. im up to 215-218 bulked then down to 208 solid then I come off and go down to 198 and look soft. Every cycle is the same from whatever I use.

I will try:
Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

If this doesnt work and my bloodwork comes back w/ my Test in the low 70's like before im lost with this recovery shit.
 
in your recommendation, you say start 1 wk after last AAS dose. Does this hold true for long ester cycles (Deca,EQ,etc)? What about short ester cycles (npp,testprop,etc)?
 
Great thread. DrJmw i have had quite a few hellish recovery attempts. I was so confused with all the different opinions on how to take Hcg, dosage and frequency of administration. Your plan sounds tops, so im going to try it in 4 weeks time...stay tuned for the feedback. Thanks for the advice.
 
DrJmw, I have Pregnyl 5000 iu amps, so would it be OK to divide that by three which would work out to 1600iu Mon,Wed,Fri. It would be easier than trying to divide 5000 into 1000 doses thats all. Feedback appreciated.
 
You need 9,000U of HCG to do the recommended PCT. Add 5ml's of bacteriostatic water to a 5,000U vial to get 1,000U per ml. Then inject IM 1ml per the schedule. It doesn't get any easier than this.
 
Yes i meant i have 3 of 5000iu ampoules of powder and 3 of 1ml water. My question was since they both come in snap top ampoules ( approx. 1ml volume)and not a vial, can i simply mix the 1ml so its 5000iu/ml and divide that into 3 which will make each shot 1660iu, or is that too much since you recommend 1000iu per shot.
To add extra water i would assume i will need a vial of water with an injectable rubber cap so i can mix the 1ml and then add it to the extra water and mix that way. Is this correct?
 
Last edited:
5000iu of powder mixed with 1ml water gives me 5000iu/ml. To get 1000iu i will need to divide 1ml(5000iu) by 5. So the volume will be 0.2ml at 1000 iu.
Would it be fair to use an insulin syringe and inject subcutaneously? Because i think it would be difficult to measure such a small volume in a regular syringe.
Also is there a problem with mixing the hcg with the solution supplied and preloading the syringesand storing it in the fridge. Ive been trying to source this "bacteriostatic water and empty pre sealed vials" here in OZ but all i can seem to find is sodium chloride 0.9% and no vials,will that do the same job?
Thankyou for taking the time to advise.
 
Last edited:
Hello all,
A very nice post, this is...
Just wondering though: is the daily nolva enough to stop the HCG from causing gyno? I heard (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it can cause gyno quite easily...

Thx
 
no bac water? do you know anyone that works at a hospital? they have the shit laying around everywhere there...as for the sterile sealed vials, there are plenty of websites selling those (same with the bac water really-but if a buddy at a hosp. can grab you a 20ml. bottle that'd be cool).
 
Thanks CEO.. Yeah can you believe it bac water and no pre sealed vials. Im thinking of going to the Doc to ask how to get it. Do you know of any sites on here that sell in Australia (please post links if you know of any). Also can i preload the 5000iu into 5 syringes @ 1000iu each and leave in the fridge?
 
Hey whats up guys,
I'm just new to this board, and new to steroid use.
I've been reading up on them quite a bit recently, but I can't seem to find some concrete information on PCT. I've been finding alot of either contradicting information, or information that doesn't pertain to me. I'm not looking to hit the steroids hard or anything, so I'm not interested in stacking or anything like that.
I've picked up some Dbol, Nolvadex, and Clomid. I am 6'0 205 pounds and have been working out pretty heavily for the past year. I was hoping one of you guys could outline how I should be administering these products.
Should I take the nolvadex during the dbol cycle? How much? How should I pyramid the dbol use? When should I take the clomid? How much??
Or should I try a different combination of stuff all together??
It would be great if you one of you guys could take a few minutes to direct me on this, it would help me out alot.
Thanks again
 
Doc,
You may have answered this before, but my question is for a guy (me) in my early 50's who did a lot of AAS in the past and did not know what I was doing or anything about PCT do I need to even bother with PCT?? My Urologist did some test a couple of years ago and said my Nat Test levels were low (I think it was 100 or 200 something). He Rxed Test Cyp 400mg once per month - I have taken this as HRT for 2 to 3 years.

Do you think my previous AAS use caused the low Test levels?? Is 400mg / mo high enough for good maintaince. We recently did some new tests but don't have results yet. I have experimented with changing the dosage myself (I have a medical background - I am a Dentist). I have uped it to 400mg per week recently stacking with 300mg Deca. Do I need to even bother with HCG? or am I wasting you money? What about Novadex and or Clomid? Should I still take them for the anti-estrogen effects? Should I just stay on Test for HRT? and cycle AAS as I want?
 
c gheller said:
5000iu of powder mixed with 1ml water gives me 5000iu/ml. To get 1000iu i will need to divide 1ml(5000iu) by 5. So the volume will be 0.2ml at 1000 iu.
Would it be fair to use an insulin syringe and inject subcutaneously? Because i think it would be difficult to measure such a small volume in a regular syringe.
Also is there a problem with mixing the hcg with the solution supplied and preloading the syringesand storing it in the fridge. Ive been trying to source this "bacteriostatic water and empty pre sealed vials" here in OZ but all i can seem to find is sodium chloride 0.9% and no vials,will that do the same job?
Thankyou for taking the time to advise.
Click to expand...


I'd rather inj. .2ml than a whole ml of HCG/bac water...OUCH
 
Wonderful read, I just got tested and waiting for the results.

What would you recommend if I wanted to prevent shrikage from happenning in the first place and/or speed up recovery by taking HCG while on with some nolvadex?

I dont really want to crash hard and watch my nuts shrik, so i'd rather take HCG while on..
I also don't think its necessary to wait til you feel puffy nips to start taking nolva, plus if i'm not mistaken nolva would help minimize water retention

What are your thoughts? If it taking HCG and nolva while on doesnt sound like a bad idea to you....

Question : how much HCG and nolva should be taken during and/or after the cycle and how frequently?

Thank you in advance

DrJMW? Jenetic?
 
Last edited:
Doc,
What's your thoughts on using winstrol (stanazolol) in place of dostinex or bromocriptine for preventing nandrolone (progesteronic) sides?

thanks,
Q
 
i think the hcg its the same of Nolvadix
but the best way to recovery its
Last Week of cycle
HCG :Three time weekly 1500 IU ( tow weeks only )
Clomid :100 mg first week Second 100 mg third week 50 mg
three month
Vitamin E 1000 one tab*day
Vitamin B Comblex 1tab*day
vitamin b12 Norebion Injection 1amp*week
Vitamin C 1000 1tab*day
 
DrJMW said:
[50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

QUOTE]

Does this quote mean 12+ wks at a dosage of AAS 600mg + per week?

Or is it if ur on for 12+ wks or take a dosage of AAS 600mg+ per week
Click to expand...
 
ceo said:
no bac water? do you know anyone that works at a hospital? they have the shit laying around everywhere there...as for the sterile sealed vials, there are plenty of websites selling those (same with the bac water really-but if a buddy at a hosp. can grab you a 20ml. bottle that'd be cool).
Click to expand...

So, just to doublecheck this again:

You use the 1ml of solvent supplied with hcg and mix it with the power to get a 1ml solution containing 5000ui hcg. You then transfer this solution into a sterile vial and add 4ml of sterile water?
 
DrJMW said:
I have posted this recovery cycle many times. Since this is a new category, I will repost. This recovery cycle works 100% of the time. In extreme cases, it actually needs to be done twice. This recovery cycle is predicated on the fact that the athlete has something to recover. Baseline blood testing of testosterone levels, estradiol levels, and prolactin levels will tell the athlete the whole story. If the athlete's baseline Testos levels are low to low-normal of the range, then recovery is a waste of time. If the athlete's levels are in the middle, then a recovery cycle may be worth it to see the body's reaction.

Begin this cycle the week after last AAS intake.
Weeks one thru three: 1,000U HCG, IM, Monday, Wednesday, Friday; 20mg Nolvadex daily. [50mg clomid daily is added to the cycle if the athlete is coming off a prolonged (12 week+), 600mg+total, weekly AAS dosing (heavy)].

Weeks four thru six: 20mg Nolvadex daily. (50mg Clomid daily if you used it the first three weeks)

Weeks seven, eight: clean. Use this time to evaluate your previous AAS cycle and your recovery. Begin planning your next AAS cycle.

I have posted the following statement a million times, and still 95% of the steroid athletes ignore it: "Blood testing is essential to determine your baseline, see how your body reacts and to see if you recover."

The medications for this cycle are readily available, so there is no excuse. Remember, the antiestrogens and recovery meds are just as important (or more so) than the AAS.
Click to expand...

thx doctor for this valuable info. this is for sure the protocol i'll be following in my pct begining march 2010 at the end of my current stack (1 gram test e , 800 mg eq for 16 weeks starting from half the dose and ascending and 400 mg tren e for the first 8 weeks),is i'm taking 50 mg of proviron started week 5 till the end and 500 iu hcg per week divided in two doses started week 3.

My question is that is it enough to use 50mg proviron to control estrogen during cycle and not to use any AI in pct, and can i use proviron in pct too in low dosage for my libido and my mood swing cuz last time clomid and nolva fucked up my emotions and can't find any arimidex or aromasin or even femara, i only have proviron.

my second quuestion is as i stated above i'm running hcg 500 iu per week during cycle , is it safe , will it desensitize my testicles at this dosage , cuz i'm planning to do the 3 shots of 1000 iu per week for the first 3 weeks of pct, is it counterproductive for ur pct protocol?

thx for the assistance doc.
waiting for ur reply
 
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