Rather dense AAS question. Please don't flame me.

[newgirl-chargeback]

Yep you have plenty of time and may never opt to do it. Education and knowledge are power and you are willing to open up your mind and take it all in...another kudos for you.

Your are welcome for the compliments however, it is more an acknowledgement and meant in all sincerity. However your quote above about being psyched to get back to the gym only reconfirms what I said in my post --

You are highly self motivated and self disciplined....you need nothing to help you since your genetics and hard work come shining through.

 

[MS]

If you use AAS to move beyond your true genetic potential then I would say that, by definition, you cannot keep those gains long term. However the majority of people I have seen use AAS merely to get to their genetic potential more quickly. If these folks keep their diet/training in order then they have some chance of maintaining their gains. However women will always struggle with their fat distribution reverting back to typical female when they come off a cycle. I gather this is why so many fitness models stay on cycles almost year round.....helps keep those thighs and butt lean.

As far as measuring true LBM gains, I recommend a 3 day no-carb, low sodium diet at the beginning and end of your cycle. This is a practical way to find out what your nett gains are minus any fluid retention/muscle hydration induced by the AAS. If you don't take this extra fluid into account, then you may feel like you lose a lot of your gains even though it was only water.

 

[Realgains]

I've read a number of the AAS threads around here, mostly out of idle curiosity, and I'm wondering: do you ever get to keep your gains once you come off cycle? And if you don't, doesn't that mean that once you do one cycle, you're basically bound to keep cycling forever if you want to maintain or increase those gains?

And if you do decide to come off, do you lose your gains but not the sides?

You can keep your gains but only up to your natural maximum weight/size and this is only if you continue to train

Most people have not reached their natural maximum weight/size so steroids will help you reach that point quickly. Some will take larger doses and go beyond this level but once they stop they will slowly return to the weight/size that can be maintained by the body without steroid supplementation.
Steroids do increase the actual number of muscle cells to a small degree, as well as cause hypertrophy, but it is unclear if the activatation of these so called "satelite cells" causes a permanent increase in muscle cells. Most of the evidence suggests that thses satelite cells return to their pre steroid state.


As far as sides are concerned some sides will remain but some will not. The sides such as oily skin, zits will go away other sides like facial hair growth, clit enlargement and a dropped voice tone will deminish in time but will never return to their pre-steroid state. Thats why it is very important to be aware of these sides when formulating your goals.

If you plan on being competitive at any higher level then you are going to have to settle for a voice change, clit growth and some extra facial hair, especially upper lip. If your goal is to stay recreational then it is best to use very low doses of mildly androgenic gear like anavar at 5-10 mg per day...or don't use steroids at all.

Ever hear Lenda talk? If that bothers you then you better be careful.

RG

 

[SteelWeaver]

IS there actually a way to know what your natural maximum size is? Are there any general parameters for guessing what it is? Can one somehow know once they REACH this size, that this is it, and not that they just need to try a different approach? Is there a maximum juiced size, too? Or are Olympia competitors just going to keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger?

Speaking of Olympia competitors, is there even the slightest, tiniest possibility that someone could make it to the Olympia stage unjuiced? This is just not possible, is it?

And on the topic of recreational use - newgirl, does gear somehow help with motivation and drive? I mean, I know W6 has posted in the past that it definitely does, but would that be a reason for some people to use it?

 

[newgirl-chargeback]

And on the topic of recreational use - newgirl, does gear somehow help with motivation and drive? I mean, I know W6 has posted in the past that it definitely does, but would that be a reason for some people to use it?

I typed what I thought was an appropriate answer but it seemed like an incredible example of how to pontificate!

Steel that is a really hard question. I do not have the drive and motivation of a true athlete and competitor such as yourself. But I have for the past 3.5 years, been motivated enough on my own to totally change my sedentary lifestyle and lift and do cardio and to change my diet drastically. I am not motivated by competing nor being the best. I like the mental and phsyical and visual changes it has brought to me.

I have never fallen off the training wagon.....I have my diet dilemmas but by and large, I am discplined to maintian the lifestyle. I was less than pleased with the plateau in regards to strength and muscle gains.

At 42, I decided I would try a cycle and continue to work my butt off to get stronger and a better body for me...not for a trophy, not for my husband. Yes I was able to eat more cleanly without the mental feeling of deprivation...but no the motivation was not a product of my cycle, directly I suppose.

I am however motivated to do another one becuase I liked the changes I saw and felt.

 

[Realgains]

SteelWeaver going to the Olympia without steroids is like trying to win Miss Universe without make up. The women are getting bigger and bigger because the barriers are coming down in regard to large dose steroid use. Now we are seeing very large doses in the female ranks. 200 of test with 200 of nandrolone per week plus GH is a standard MINIMUM dose for the pro's and that is a hell of a lot of gear for a female. Nobody has a chance without gear now.

RG

 

[THeMaCHinE]

RG -- good posts; especially interesting about the satellite cells. I was under the impression that once they changed, it was permanent.

 

[SteelWeaver]

SteelWeaver going to the Olympia without steroids is like trying to win Miss Universe without make up.

lol. I thought so. So anyone who says an Olympia competitor is natural is lying through their teeth, right? Or seriously naive ...

OK, I know I should do a search on this, but if you wouldn't mind helping with the numbers - how many times MORE than 35-70mg anavar/week is 200mg test or nandrolone? Test and ox aren't directly comparable just by the numbers, correct?

newgirl - er ... I'm not sure about true athlete and competitor ... I'm just determined to be the absolutely best at bodybuilding that I can be (within whatever limits re: food, gear, etc that I place on myself) .... And training and competing thrills me like nothing else ever has.

 

[newgirl-chargeback]

Steel exactly my point...here is what you wrote:

I'm just determined to be the absolutely best at bodybuilding that I can be (within whatever limits re: food, gear, etc that I place on myself) .... And training and competing thrills me like nothing else ever has.


Now -- THAT my dear is a wonderful competitive spirit. That is an athlete capable of excelling.....these are the words of a true WINNER. I cannot share that space with you....I am not that person ... I dabble! I pass the time. You are so incredibly driven it is absolutely inspirational and so incredibly charmisatic.

To me, your words reveal more about you than you know. What is your "day" job....I am most curious now.

 

[MS]

These days you would struggle to find many truly natty females even at tested "natural' shows. The chances of the Olympia without lots of drugs HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I would think the 400mg of AAS (plus hGH) that Realgains mentioned would be the absolute minimum that most Olympia competitors would be using. I don't think it would matter much which AAS you chose.....at 400mg + per week you're gonna grow and have some sides. 400mg + of Anavar per week would prolly destroy your liver before it turned you into a winning Ms Olympia though. Thus most folks that use higher doses og AAS go for the cheaper and less liver toxic stuff such as test and nandrolone.