question for MS, Babydoc, DrJ

[rasta]

I appreciate all of the advice.

Dr J. My training is already more advanced than the one you listed. It would take a couple of pages to explain my training but I will give you an example of how I treat my workouts

Back/rear delts:

I treat my back as four parts...Lats, lower back, inner back, traps

I use three different exercises for each section, performing 4-5 sets at 12-8 reps.l

Ex: start 80 wide grip pull-ups unassisted, barbell back row 80lbs-100lbs, good mornings very light weigt 15-20 reps for 4 sets

Giant set 1
reverse military pull down-to pulley row- to reverse crunch machine...four times

Giant set 2
shoulder press- trap exercise (don't know how to describe it) - shrugs...four times

One more lat target
One more inner back target

Giant set 3
three exercises that focus on the rear delt and top head of the shoulder

Finish
reverse crunch on the free standing back thing
Pull-ups assisted, wide grip 10 to close grip 10, 5 sets of twenty reps

I am already very strong, I hammer bench 210 for 10 reps, I dip with 45lbs on waist for 10reps, I squat 140lbs, etc. No aas use to date.
The best way for me to describe myself is to say that I look a great deal like Phenom's posts, but with greater muscle mass. Our striations are similar, but the sides of my abs have more definiton.
I'm looking for more definition in my glutes and lower abs and more muscle mass in my legs (not sure, but think her legs might be a little bigger than mine) I would post picks, but I talk to you guys from my work computer and don't think it would be wise to post pics from here and I also don't have camera.

Now for the questions?
I think you guys are saying that I have reached my genetic potential?
Would trying the bodyopus or zone diet help?
It also doesn't seem that you guys are very supportive of estrogen blockers?
Baby Doc, would I even be able to get a prescription for them if I wanted them, at age 24?
Is my only alternative to getting closer to the Monica Brant/Timea look aas?

Again, I can't express how grateful I am for you time and opinions
Rasta

 

[MS]

I cannot say if you've reached your 'genetic' potential. I would need to meet you, watch you train, find out your history, diet, age, other commitments etc..... and then I would need to meet you family!!! Well that's a bit extreme but genetic potential is mostly a theoretical concept. Also keep in mind that strength and hypertrophy are not always the same thing so it depends on whethter your goals are strength or BB or whatever.

One thing I would definitely recommend is hitting those legs a LOT harder. The IGF-1 stimulous gained from a heavy leg workout will help you add more muscle over your whole body if done regularly. You need to change your workouts regularly to keep the muscle stimulated and prevent neural adaptation, but I'm sure you already know this.

I am not against estrogen blockers-I have used them several times for contest prep. I just don't want you to waste your money on OTC herbal formulations that won't help you much. As long as you can find a reliable source there is no reason you can't buy pharmaceutical estrogen blockers on the black market. They are not illegal like AAS so there is little risk associated with this type of purchase. But I doubt that estrogen blockers will help you gain much in the way of muscle or strength....their main benefit as a BB female is to help shed lower bodyfat. From this perspective something like Arimidex is probably a better bet since it stops the production of estrogen rather than selectively inhibiting some estrogen receptors. Of course these drugs all come with side effects, so make sure you understand what you're taking.

 

[Phemomena]

if you have pics that you want to post email them to yourself (a yahoo account or something...), and post from a chapters or somewhere that you can just pay for online time an hour at a time or so

or you can email them to myself or another on the board...

i would LOVE to see these pics... you sound amazing (especially if your body resembles mine (JUST KIDDING, i'm not like that )

 

[DrJMW]

I have to agree with MS on her analysis. I can help you with obtaining an anti-estrogen. The only other med to consider at this point would be HGH. This will give you the definition. MS's suggestion to alter your leg workout is precise..if you try it and are still not satisfied, then AAS may be an alternative.

 

[thebabydoc]

I'd have to look it up again, but Lupron (temporarily puts you into a menopausal state) would be a short-term (6 month) solution with no rebound effects.

It sounds like you're not resting/shocking your muscles enough, and more importantly,
what is your diet and what gear have you tried? How much protein and fat are you ingesting?
If you're asking us about "the zone," then it sounds like diet may be where you're falling short and I'd much more concentrate on that than on a speculative thing like estrogen blocking.

Also, you described your upper regimen, what are you doing for your glutes/quads/etc???

Pics!!!

 

[rasta]

You guys are the best, thanks for your responses

To phen. thanks for the suggestions, do I need a digital camera to download pics?

To MS What kind of side effects would I expect from Arimidex

DrJ Can you help with HGH too, is there not a risk of agromalia (sp?) with that? Wouldn't I be better off with Anavar as far as sides go?

Babydoc I try and eat 2g protein per lb of body weight. I eat starchy carbs before 3:00pm. For recovery I eat one large carb side and protein (chicken, fish, steak) at dinner. I have a protein shake at 10:00 am and before bed to help acheive the 2g/bodylb. I try to eat around 2200 calories a day, taking in a max of about 30g of fat a day. I cook with virgin olive oil and eat lots of fish (tuna, salmon, flounder) to try and get the efa's.

Sometimes I am not able to eat as many calories in a day that I need. I work two jobs, so sometimes preparing the meals or taking time to eat them is difficult. I would agree that some more focus is needed in that area. I was hoping a diet book would help to give me an idea on some foods to eat and ratios so that I wouldn't have to do as much of the calculations myself.

The routine example was an example of how I treat all my body parts, but since you asked here is my leg routine I have four more weeks before my next swith up (12-8 reps means 12 -10-10-8)
p.s. my workouts include back/rear delt (as seen), chest/front delt, bi's/tri's, legs---abs are alternated every other day

Elliptical or bicycle 5min for warm up

Giant Set 1
Single leg press on machine, 20lbs 15reps for warm up-Go from 30-75lbs in about four sets going from 12 reps to 8 reps (going all the way down, no cheating on any of my form)----sld 70lbs 12reps for 5 sets----calf raises 115lbs 20reps 5 sets

Hammer leg press, 90lbs-360lbs four set at 12-8reps

Leg extension single leg at 60lbs 10x followed immediately by double leg at 105lbs 8 x
Do three reps
Pryamid down with double leg at 120lbs down to 105lbs down to single leg at 60lbs-30lbs

Squats
50lbs plus bar for 12 reps, going up in weight by 20 lbs until I can only do 6 before exhaustion (usually around 140 plus bar)

Calf exercise

Leg curls identical to leg extension method

Inner/outer 100reps at 70lbs

Calf exercise

abs

If I feel like I have not exhausted my glutes I might do some lunges or step ups before I leave

Look foward to hearing from you guys
Kristy

 

[Phemomena]

i hear ya about the eating, i can never get all my cals in and 2 jobs dang... you must be busy... i haven't been worrying about my breakdowns, and such... i just eat and eat and eat some more... when i start cutting i'll get down to the nitty gritty, but right now if i get in a balanced meal (p + c + f) with lots of protein, i'm happy... its hell trying to eat 4-5 meals a day at work..


you can scan in photographs (actually the chapters or whatever may have a scanner, if not maybe a photocopy place like kinkos (do you have them in the US?) they should also have inet access so they'll scan the pics, email them to ya and you can post them, probably all take about 20 min and cost 5-10 bucks in total (maybe less, depending on where ya go...)... if they have a self serve scanner it'll all be based on time, if not they'll charge you per scan... bring a floppy disk with ya in case they won't mail them to you... and ask for jpg, make sure the size is under 100k (should be with jpg, but just ask for a decent quality for inet use when they scan them... )

 

[luv2workout]

Soooo sorry to be buttin in on your thread...but I was just curious as to what type of doctors are babydoc and Dr.J???

 

[thebabydoc]

luvs2:

babydoc is an ob/gyn, and a Doctor of Medicine (MD). I do not claim to be an
expert on anything but.

rasta:

Have you considered increasing fat? It IS necessary for repairing and building of
tissue. The Zone recommends 3gm +/- for every 7gm of protein when you are working
out for gain. Along these lines, when you have a protien shake, are you adding in or eating adequate fat and carb with it? That's about all I could even come up with, your protein intake and exercise regimen sound insane!!

As much effort as you put into this, and when you're at the point where you're considering
estrogen blockers for off-label use (especially when they could contribute to many other
bad things), maybe it is time to consider AS to get the most out of the considerable work
you are doing; at least there is good documented experience and much knowledge on these
boards regarding the 'proper' use of AS!!!

 

[MS]

I've just reread this post and I am officially confused. You say you want the Brandt/Timea look but aren't getting there even though you feel pretty strong. Are you actively dieting to lose bodyfat at the moment, or just training heavy to try and add mass/strength? Antiestrogens are definitely NOT the answer unless you've already dietied down to 12%bf or less and are looking to shed that last bit of estrogenic fat deposit. Even then looking like Brandt/Timea requires a large deal of the right genes-it's not just about muscle mass or being lean with big boobs. It's about having the right proportions in terms of limb/torso length, insertion of muscle bellies, natural fat distribution and many other little things. If you can dig up before and after AAS pictures of FitnessChick in the Elite archives you will see what I mean. She looked great before she ever touched AAS.

 

[rasta]

answer to MS

MS

I agree with what you are saying. Like I said I am just slightly more developed than phen. (I am working on pics). I have not done any gear. I feel that a couple of my bodyparts are lagging, glutes/lower abs/lower back, as far as striation. My calves are not growing very much, nor my lats, although these parts are very striated. I have great upper back, shoulder, arm development. My "tear drop" and the bottom half of my legs are coming along nicely. I am starting to see greater separation in my quads.

Anyway, I am developed enough that people always ask me if I am preparing for a show, all levels of bb's. So to answer your question, I think as an ectomorph I have pretty favorable genetics and I have come a very long way without the use of gear.

I agree with some of the things said in earlier posts, which is that I should focus on rearranging my diet. I think I will start with this first. Once I have maintained an effective diet for 6mths or so. Then I will go to the next phase which might include something like anavar or estrogen blockers.

Also, my body fat is around 12% with some stubborn fat in my lower back/abs and glutes. This was why I was considering the eb's. After three months of cardio, I still have not managed to drop my bf any.

Hope this clears some things up

I appreciate the advice, keep it coming

 

[MS]

So you are definitely dieting/training to lose fat rather then gain muscle? If your %bf hasn't dropped for 12 weeks you're way overdue to shake things up. The first thing I would have you do is take a few weeks off of dieting and cardio, but ghave you intensify your effort in the gym. Eat plenty of clean foods including low GI carbs and don't count calories. After that we'd start you on a completely different diet and training program from what you're on now.

But I'm still unclear of your goals. Do you expect to be able to gain mass on your calves and lats while keeping your %bf at 12% or less without gear?? Are you preparing for a show? Do you have a deadline/date at which you wish to achieve a particular level of leaness??

 

[rasta]

question "Do you expect to gain mass on your calves and lats while maintaining 12%bf or lower?"

answer Yes. I was able to put on 12lbs while maintaining my 12%bf. So I feel that gaining mass in those areas without gaining bf is possible for me.

question "am I preparing for a show?"

answer I would eventually like to compete when I am no longer in the financial situation that requires me to work two jobs. Hopefully in another year. I am trying to experiment at different levels of that type of training to see how I can expect to do on the diet and training regimes when I do get to the point when I want to prepare for a show.

Question "Do I have a particle date for goal of leaness?"

answer No. I was just trying to lower by bodyfat after gaining some weight to see if I could do it and to see if I could maintain the new lowered bodyfat. But I have not seen any results in this area and am getting frustrated so I started asking for help. I don't think that aas is the answer right now. After I have tried several diets and feel that I have tried everything natural possible and have reached my genetic potential, then I will consider trying aas. I must say as my frustration levels rise my desire to try aas gets much stronger.

Hope this answers your questions

Kristy

P.S. Check out my latest post titled "question for wilson6" do you have any suggestion in that area?