Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
question about pyramids
- Thread starter wannabeBB
- Start date
Arioch
New member
One of the reasons that OL'ers will not train all of their lifts in an explosive manner all of the time is that this is only one method of the basic three wrt increasing strength. Dynamic effort will influence any number of neurophysiological responses, such as rate coding, recruitment, etc, but is less than optimal for maximal hypertrophy or pure CNS stimulation.
Maximal gains in CNS recruitment are seen through the maximal effort method (using a 1 rep max). This method does not improve several factors, but greatly influences others, including autogenic inhibition.
Reptition training will stimulate maximal hypertrophy, but does little for most neural factors. Furthermore, it can cause sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is next to useless at best and doom at worst for an athlete who wishes to remain in a weight class, as it contributes little in the way of contractile strength as well.
WSB powerlifters train explosively at least twice a week, on the squat and bench, respectively. Always. Two other days are devoted to maximal effort, and even on ME days, the goal is still to explode with the weight.
OL'ers will training some of the lifts explosively constantly, sometimes several different lifts are trained explosively each workout. Only a very few lifts are not trained in an explosive manner, and even these are not done to any sort of slow tempo, maybe a two second eccentric at the longest. Examples being good mornings.
One of the things that is often misunderstood about OLing is the degree of specific training that must take place. Good example from the early seventies. Patera(USA), Redding (Bel), and Alexeev(RUS) were the leading SHW athletes. Both Patera and Redding were far stronger on the squat and deadlift than Alexeev, and both spent a fair amount of time on assistance work, moving weights in a slower manner. Alexeev spent all of his time training in a ballistic manner, and consequently was able to acclerate his lifts with lest wasted effort on the plaform. And on meet days he always won. Alexeev had developed both his sport specific strength, and improved his recruitment patterns to such a degree, that he has the greatest differential wrt speed of his first and second pull of any athlete ever measured (1.0 m/s:1.8 m/s), and it has still not been achieved by any athlete even 30 years later.
Maximal gains in CNS recruitment are seen through the maximal effort method (using a 1 rep max). This method does not improve several factors, but greatly influences others, including autogenic inhibition.
Reptition training will stimulate maximal hypertrophy, but does little for most neural factors. Furthermore, it can cause sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is next to useless at best and doom at worst for an athlete who wishes to remain in a weight class, as it contributes little in the way of contractile strength as well.
WSB powerlifters train explosively at least twice a week, on the squat and bench, respectively. Always. Two other days are devoted to maximal effort, and even on ME days, the goal is still to explode with the weight.
OL'ers will training some of the lifts explosively constantly, sometimes several different lifts are trained explosively each workout. Only a very few lifts are not trained in an explosive manner, and even these are not done to any sort of slow tempo, maybe a two second eccentric at the longest. Examples being good mornings.
One of the things that is often misunderstood about OLing is the degree of specific training that must take place. Good example from the early seventies. Patera(USA), Redding (Bel), and Alexeev(RUS) were the leading SHW athletes. Both Patera and Redding were far stronger on the squat and deadlift than Alexeev, and both spent a fair amount of time on assistance work, moving weights in a slower manner. Alexeev spent all of his time training in a ballistic manner, and consequently was able to acclerate his lifts with lest wasted effort on the plaform. And on meet days he always won. Alexeev had developed both his sport specific strength, and improved his recruitment patterns to such a degree, that he has the greatest differential wrt speed of his first and second pull of any athlete ever measured (1.0 m/s:1.8 m/s), and it has still not been achieved by any athlete even 30 years later.
Arioch
New member
By hard as in fast as hell, yes, but a relatively low intensity (%1RM), 50 - 70% or so. However, chains or bands are often added to increase the weight as leverage improves, utilizing compensatory acceleration.
Periodization is still the most commonly seen form of PL training, and the squat, bench, and dead are normally trained hard once each week. Some people will rotate assistance exercises, whereas others can stick to the same exercises for an extended period of time, with very little variation. My son has developed this ability, probably just to irritate me.
It is worth noting that the most successful teams in both OL and PL have trained using the conjugate method, and not the periodized model.
Periodization is still the most commonly seen form of PL training, and the squat, bench, and dead are normally trained hard once each week. Some people will rotate assistance exercises, whereas others can stick to the same exercises for an extended period of time, with very little variation. My son has developed this ability, probably just to irritate me.
It is worth noting that the most successful teams in both OL and PL have trained using the conjugate method, and not the periodized model.
Airoch.....what do you think I could have attained to in the big three if I had trained like you recommend.....I am 40 now so I probably couldn't reach my absolute maximums.
Old maxes attained at 35 were 450 bench...750 squat and 850 deadlift. Do you think I could surpass these totals at at my age with your methods?
I am down a bit from these now but could probably still do 400-700 and maybe 800 on the deadlift.
RG
Old maxes attained at 35 were 450 bench...750 squat and 850 deadlift. Do you think I could surpass these totals at at my age with your methods?
I am down a bit from these now but could probably still do 400-700 and maybe 800 on the deadlift.
RG
Haz
New member
I like to pyramid my first exercise, just because it allows for a great warm up, and keeps injuries to a minimum. After that first exercise though, I'm less likely to do it. The muslce I am working is plenty ready for heavy weight.
However, I don't think there is one best way to train. Try mixing it up and seeing what works best for you.
However, I don't think there is one best way to train. Try mixing it up and seeing what works best for you.
circusgirl
New member
re plyometrics / explosive sets -
first newbie question - does explosive training mean using a lower weight and proper form but "exploding" the hard part of the lift like a plyometric jump?
second newbie question - one trainer told me that I should have a good strength base before atttempting plyometrics at all, (my tkd coach had the whole squad doing them, I mentioned this to this trainer) as otherwise there was considerable potential for injury - is this correct? And does it also apply to explosive lifting?
first newbie question - does explosive training mean using a lower weight and proper form but "exploding" the hard part of the lift like a plyometric jump?
second newbie question - one trainer told me that I should have a good strength base before atttempting plyometrics at all, (my tkd coach had the whole squad doing them, I mentioned this to this trainer) as otherwise there was considerable potential for injury - is this correct? And does it also apply to explosive lifting?
Arioch
New member
Depends. For some, it is lowering the weight under control, and then exploding as you described. The true dynamic effort method is done as quickly as possible, essentially a 1/1 tempo. This is done to maximize the myotactile response, as well as to reduce trauma and soreness from the eccentric phase.
The Olympic lifts have little to no eccentric component.
Yes, one should have not only a decent strength base but have the advantage of increased bone density prior to performing plyometrics.
As to quick lifting, like so many other things, it depends. As a general rule, your average individual should probably wait a while. However, someone with a heavy athletic background or long history of extreme physical labor probably does not have to worry much.
Similar threads
