Prohormones: The Real Deal

[notpuff]

ok since mikeraz has such a hard time grasping this maybe ill take a crack at explaining it ,correct me if im wrong


ok lets say anavar gains are 10-15 pounds , now anavar has very little androgenic sides so you wont stunt child growth

now lets say methyl-boldione or somethign will pack on 30-40 pounds but will cause allot of androgenic side effects

Now even though methyl-boldione will pack on more muslce then anavar you have to look at your market. if your market is all men then thats ok but if its women and children you cant give a women a drug that will basically turn her into a man and you cant give her a foot long clitoris cause you will ruin her life

now i think pat is saying the more anabolic AND mor androgenic are more potent then stuff liek anavar,winny etc yo can give that crap to women and kids

 

[MIKERAZ]

ok since mikeraz has such a hard time grasping this maybe ill take a crack at explaining it ,correct me if im wrong


ok lets say anavar gains are 10-15 pounds , now anavar has very little androgenic sides so you wont stunt child growth

now lets say methyl-boldione or somethign will pack on 30-40 pounds but will cause allot of androgenic side effects

Now even though methyl-boldione will pack on more muslce then anavar you have to look at your market. if your market is all men then thats ok but if its women and children you cant give a women a drug that will basically turn her into a man and you cant give her a foot long clitoris cause you will ruin her life

now i think pat is saying the more anabolic AND mor androgenic are more potent then stuff liek anavar,winny etc yo can give that crap to women and kids

Im not even going to flame you on the spelling, im going to flame you on your stupidity

First off a little chem lesson for you theres no cholesterol in Pro-Hormones, Cholesterol is the stuff in steroids that is responsible for the anabolic activity in ALL steroids , the androgen part is the CNS stimulant so right there drop the whole methyl-andro thing its stupid


Another chem lesson for ya Puffy, androgenic steroids dont produce muscle, they are responsible for muscle hardening, and strength not muscle growth , look at Halo,Mibolerone,Methyltest Etc. So leave the arguments to the big boys.

 

[pa1ad]

Im not even going to flame you on the spelling, im going to flame you on your stupidity

First off a little chem lesson for you theres no cholesterol in Pro-Hormones, Cholesterol is the stuff in steroids that is responsible for the anabolic activity in ALL steroids , the androgen part is the CNS stimulant so right there drop the whole methyl-andro thing its stupid


Another chem lesson for ya Puffy, androgenic steroids dont produce muscle, they are responsible for muscle hardening, and strength not muscle growth , look at Halo,Mibolerone,Methyltest Etc. So leave the arguments to the big boys.

Kill me now. Someone. Please

 

[Par Deus]

First off a little chem lesson for you theres no cholesterol in Pro-Hormones, Cholesterol is the stuff in steroids that is responsible for the anabolic activity in ALL steroids , the androgen part is the CNS stimulant so right there drop the whole methyl-andro thing its stupid

So, if I ate a bunch of egg yolks and chicken skin, would I get HYOOOGE???

 

[MIKERAZ]

So, if I ate a bunch of egg yolks and chicken skin, would I get HYOOOGE???

First off i dont know why PA said that, all i was saying was that notpuff should stay out of the argument and especially with methylated-PH crap, and leave the arguing for the big boys.

No if you ate egg yolks you wont get huge ,the combination of cholesterol and androgen are what make steroids build muscle. If you take away the cholesterol from a steroid then the steroid becomes just a androgen like a PH ,and it wont build muscle but will give a great CNS effect, do the opposite and the steroid will only build mass no CNS effect.

And androgenic roids really are ONLY strength and CNS, like halo,mibolerone,methyltest etc .

 

[wojo]

And androgenic roids really are ONLY strength and CNS, like halo,mibolerone,methyltest etc .

actually there grest for hardening too..i.e 1-test

 

[MIKERAZ]

Hardening too but NOT muscle growth halo,mibolerone are all androgenic steroids they assayed out more androgenic then anabolic

 

[MIKERAZ]

Want to know of a sick oral compound i heard about its, german it was a hybride of anavar and trenbolone it beat the crap out of dbol in the assay which is very hard to do , hey puffy got any PH compounds that beat dbol? uhh no

Sorry for ragging on ya puff but some of your posts makes me think you 16.

 

[pa1ad]

First off i dont know why PA said that, all i was saying was that notpuff should stay out of the argument and especially with methylated-PH crap, and leave the arguing for the big boys.

No if you ate egg yolks you wont get huge ,the combination of cholesterol and androgen are what make steroids build muscle. If you take away the cholesterol from a steroid then the steroid becomes just a androgen like a PH ,and it wont build muscle but will give a great CNS effect, do the opposite and the steroid will only build mass no CNS effect.

And androgenic roids really are ONLY strength and CNS, like halo,mibolerone,methyltest etc .

Hey MikeRaz,

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Your cholesterol theory is the most ludicrous thing i ever heard (where on earth did you ever pick up such baloney?). I URGE you to visit a medical library and read some original books and reference materials on anabolic steroids to get some real background on the subject. Will you do this?

 

[pa1ad]

Hardening too but NOT muscle growth halo,mibolerone are all androgenic steroids they assayed out more androgenic then anabolic

These steroids are all more anabolic than testosterone. They also are all more anabolic than androgenic, however compared to most anabolic steroids they still have a poor differentiation of anabolic to androgenic - hence they are considered primarily androgens

To say that some AAS do not build muscle is ridiculous. You are confusing anabolism with water retention.

Once again, please read some bona fide original literature on the science of AAS. Your mind is warped by inaccurate street myths

 

[MIKERAZ]

These steroids are all more anabolic than testosterone. They also are all more anabolic than androgenic, however compared to most anabolic steroids they still have a poor differentiation of anabolic to androgenic - hence they are considered primarily androgens

To say that some AAS do not build muscle is ridiculous. You are confusing anabolism with water retention.

Once again, please read some bona fide original literature on the science of AAS. Your mind is warped by inaccurate street myths

Most of my knowledge comes from Animal or my own theories

I thought mibolerone assayed out 47 percent AS anabolic as test meaning less then test

And you kind of proved my point , Androgenic steroids wont build muscle like its common knowledge mibolerone doesnt produce gains , neither does halo, also look at methyl-tren its like 10000 times more anabolic and androgenic then test and if you'd iinject it all youd get is very hard muscles,super strength and a hell of allot of side effects .

 

[notpuff]

Want to know of a sick oral compound i heard about its, german it was a hybride of anavar and trenbolone it beat the crap out of dbol in the assay which is very hard to do , hey puffy got any PH compounds that beat dbol? uhh no

Sorry for ragging on ya puff but some of your posts makes me think you 16.

bro you need to shutup , pa has been saying you do not know what your talking about but yyour still talking!
heres something for you to chew on primo assayed very anabolic and low androgenic yet most peopel sayy primo is good for hardening ,havent really heard any talk about gaining allot of muscle on primo
as for methyl-4ad it was never mass produced and never will be so who the hell knows if its good or not , it could be great it could suck nobody knows (wish pa would make some iin his lab use iit for a week and shut you up but heres wishing)

 

[pa1ad]

Most of my knowledge comes from Animal or my own theories

I thought mibolerone assayed out 47 percent AS anabolic as test meaning less then test

And you kind of proved my point , Androgenic steroids wont build muscle like its common knowledge mibolerone doesnt produce gains , neither does halo, also look at methyl-tren its like 10000 times more anabolic and androgenic then test and if you'd iinject it all youd get is very hard muscles,super strength and a hell of allot of side effects .

I do not understand your definition of building muscles. I think you are confusing "building muscles" with water weight gain.

Please go do some real research.

 

[MIKERAZ]

I do not understand your definition of building muscles. I think you are confusing "building muscles" with water weight gain.

Please go do some real research.

Well most people get very very good gains with Dianabol and most people say anavar sucks.

I do have some knowledge of reaserched Steroids i read about a german compound that was a anavar/trenbolone hybride it assayed out better then d-bol.

 

[pa1ad]

Well most people get very very good gains with Dianabol and most people say anavar sucks.

I do have some knowledge of reaserched Steroids i read about a german compound that was a anavar/trenbolone hybride it assayed out better then d-bol.

anavar is quite potent taken at the dosages that dianabol is typically taken at. Unfortunately anavar is available only in 2.5 mg pills.

As for that hybrid steroid - let me guess. Someone told you about that didn't they? And let me guess where they heard about that from. Perhaps it was from MY RECENT ARTICLE in anabolicextreme.com and muscle monthly? Jeezus, you never fail to amaze me

 

[MIKERAZ]

Ok well maybe i gave off the wrong impression , i respect your knowledgevery much. Yes i got that from somebody, but might i remind you this whole thing started with someone talking about methyl-Ph, and my argument against it is valid Bill has said numerous times that a Diol NEVER assyed out better then its Beta-hydroxyd counterpart and that the anabolic properites of it werent good enough for release.

Went to anabolicextreme checked back issue all i see is issues from 2001 nothing else would love to read it.

 

[pa1ad]

Ok well maybe i gave off the wrong impression , i respect your knowledgevery much. Yes i got that from somebody, but might i remind you this whole thing started with someone talking about methyl-Ph, and my argument against it is valid Bill has said numerous times that a Diol NEVER assyed out better then its Beta-hydroxyd counterpart and that the anabolic properites of it werent good enough for release.

Went to anabolicextreme checked back issue all i see is issues from 2001 nothing else would love to read it.

I am so very tired of this thread. Is there any way to officially close it?

 

[cool_sub]

Yep there is a keyword list bottom right of the window titled ADMIN OPTIONS.

 

[MIKERAZ]

I am so very tired of this thread. Is there any way to officially close it?

See your kind of acknowledging that my above statement is right by not correcting it . So maybe i do have some knowledge afterall..

 

[MIKERAZ]

Also on a previous post you even acknowledged that i was right by saying methyl-Pro-hormones ARE crap because there assay LESS then 1:1 and 1:1 aint so good so less is horrible . Hell d-bol aint no less then 1:1.

 

[MIKERAZ]

19-nor-5-androstenediol was methylated, and came out 7 times more anabolic than MT, and 1-Test was methylated to be 16 times more anabolic, by the best oral assay, than MT.

- Bill

Got a problem with that statement. First off 5-ad isnt a potent steroid. Second Methyl-5ad is Methandriol and Methandriol has little to no anabolic properties. Third off it aromatises very very easily and not very anabolic and isnt 7 times more potent.

And to answer the original question besides for `1-t,5ad,4ad no other Pro-Hormones have been methylatyed, i gess the pharm companies learned there lesson after methylating the first to Pro-Hormones , and that lesson is not to waste time on presecuers that arent potent.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Got a problem with that statement. First off 5-ad isnt a potent steroid. Second Methyl-5ad is Methandriol and Methandriol has little to no anabolic properties.

The only direct comparison of methandriol to testosterone in Vida has it as 18% as anabolic and about 30-40% as androgenic. This is a completely different steroid than the 19-nor counterpart Mikeraz.

Third off it aromatises very very easily and not very anabolic and isnt 7 times more potent.

Methandriol does not aromatize.

And to answer the original question besides for `1-t,5ad,4ad no other Pro-Hormones have been methylatyed, i gess the pharm companies learned there lesson after methylating the first to Pro-Hormones , and that lesson is not to waste time on presecuers that arent potent.

The pharm companies and researchers never looked at these as prohormones, only as other steroids. And 1-test is not a prohormone to anything except inactive and less active metabolites. Stop pretending that you grasp what is going on here.

 

[MIKERAZ]

I have never heard or seen ANYBODY get gains off methandriol so it cant be much more potent then test because people explode on test.

And many people get gyno from methandriol and anti e's wont help

And they are Pro-Hormones

 

[1fast400]

"I have never heard or seen ANYBODY get gains off methandriol so it cant be much more potent then test

Because you haven't seen it makes it scientific fact?

 

[notpuff]

I have never heard or seen ANYBODY get gains off methandriol so it cant be much more potent then test because people explode on test.

And many people get gyno from methandriol and anti e's wont help

And they are Pro-Hormones

So i guess test is a pro-hormoen to DHT then huh?

 

[1fast400]

I haven't seen you hump a guy, but that doesn't mean your not gay.

 

[MIKERAZ]

I haven't seen you hump a guy, but that doesn't mean your not gay.

You actually never seen me at all so thats a dumb comment.

And notpuff of all the dumb posts from you that takes the cake!.Test is not in anyway a Pro-hormone in anyway!!!! The molecules are diffrent, There actiosn are diffrent .

 

[1fast400]

My comment was made in the same manner yours was. Your logic....well there is no logic to it. In a formalized debate you would be torn apart as you have been here. If I had seen you in real life, the comment would still be the same. I have people tell me they see gains off creatine serum, does that mean creatine serum is a good product? Your "sample size" isn't large enough to make such a encompassing statement.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

it cant be much more potent then test because people explode on test.

Hence the 18%

And many people get gyno from methandriol and anti e's wont help

Aromatase inhibitors do not help because it is intrinsically estrogenic.

And they are Pro-Hormones

All of the diols are also active steroids, regardless of whethor or not they convert to anything else. Furthermore 1-test is not a diol, but one of the most potent natural steroids ever isolated. It is not a prohormone to anything.

You are clueless, and stuck on a term rarely used outside of supplement advertising. These all classify as steroids.

 

[MIKERAZ]

O you mean 18 as anabolic not more anabolic. i thought you meant 18 percent more . That makes sense , so 1-test is 7 percent as also and methyl-19nor-5-ad is also 7 times AS potent.

Ok now it makes sense, but methyl-19nor-5-ad also would have intrinsic estrogen ability

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

O you mean 18 as anabolic not more anabolic. i thought you meant 18 percent more . That makes sense , so 1-test is 7 percent as also and methyl-19nor-5-ad is also 7 times AS potent.

1-Test is 2-7 times more potent than testosterone.
methyl-19-nor-5AD is 7 times more potent than methyltest.
methandriol has only 18% of the potentcy of testosterone

Ok now it makes sense, but methyl-19nor-5-ad also would have intrinsic estrogen ability

Just like it must be weak because it is a diol? Mikeraz, you cannot make blind assumptions about the activities of steroids like this. You have no understanding of steroid chemistry, and are basing these judgements soley on what you read on bodybuilding websites.

 

[MIKERAZ]

But its in the 5 position ,5 positions are androgenic and estrogenic .


And i still stand by my comment that no Diol EVER assayed out better then its Beta-Hydroxy'd Brotha.

These judgements are based on my knowledge aquired through websites, big catt hh,Animal basically.

 

[Par Deus]

This has to be the most absurd thread I have ever encountered.

 

[wojo]

mike raz=smacked assed animal wannabe with theories based on comic book science....so mikey what do you think about cosmic rays?

 

[pa1ad]

Got a problem with that statement. First off 5-ad isnt a potent steroid. Second Methyl-5ad is Methandriol and Methandriol has little to no anabolic properties. Third off it aromatises very very easily and not very anabolic and isnt 7 times more potent.

And to answer the original question besides for `1-t,5ad,4ad no other Pro-Hormones have been methylatyed, i gess the pharm companies learned there lesson after methylating the first to Pro-Hormones , and that lesson is not to waste time on presecuers that arent potent.

Please shut up. You know nothing about the pharmacology and chemistry of steroids. So please, just shut up

 

[pa1ad]

You actually never seen me at all so thats a dumb comment.

And notpuff of all the dumb posts from you that takes the cake!.Test is not in anyway a Pro-hormone in anyway!!!! The molecules are diffrent, There actiosn are diffrent .

No mike, notpuff is totally correct. Testosterone is a prohormone to DHT and estradiol.

Fact is, you do not even know the definition of prohormone. Good Lord you don't know anything.

 

[pa1ad]

Hence the 18%

[/B]

Aromatase inhibitors do not help because it is intrinsically estrogenic.



All of the diols are also active steroids, regardless of whethor or not they convert to anything else. Furthermore 1-test is not a diol, but one of the most potent natural steroids ever isolated. It is not a prohormone to anything.

You are clueless, and stuck on a term rarely used outside of supplement advertising. These all classify as steroids. [/B]

JUst to nitpick, we really don't know whether the diols are active intrinisically or not. But thats just semantics anyway. anadrol probably isn't intrinisically active either. Shit, anadrol might very well be a prohormone! Yes, thats no shit. Try that one on for size MikeRaz

 

[pa1ad]

1-Test is 2-7 times more potent than testosterone.
methyl-19-nor-5AD is 7 times more potent than methyltest.
methandriol has only 18% of the potentcy of testosterone



Just like it must be weak because it is a diol? Mikeraz, you cannot make blind assumptions about the activities of steroids like this. You have no understanding of steroid chemistry, and are basing these judgements soley on what you read on bodybuilding websites. [/B]

MikeRaz, by nothing more than pure luck (after all if you guess about shit 1000 times you are right once or twice), actually is probably right about the methyl nor-5-diol being estrogenic because the non-methylated nor-5-diol has shown very strong binding to the ER (quite a bit more even than 5-diol)

 

[pa1ad]

But its in the 5 position ,5 positions are androgenic and estrogenic .


And i still stand by my comment that no Diol EVER assayed out better then its Beta-Hydroxy'd Brotha.

These judgements are based on my knowledge aquired through websites, big catt hh,Animal basically.

Big Cat and animal are NOT reliable sources of information buddy.

So if what you say about all delta 5 steroids is true then i guess that pregnenolone, diosgenin, and cholesterol are all androgenic and estrogenic too?

Furthermore, methyl-4-AD assayed out MORE anabolic than its beta-hydroxy analog (methyltestosterone). So there goes that theory

Got any more brilliant comments? Be sure to check with your aforementioned sources (aka dumb and dumber) before getting back to us

 

[MIKERAZ]

Wow slow down here i never said you dont know any information and are not knowledgable , i do respect your knowledge and innovations allot . But theres also room for the knowledge of animal and others who i get most of my info from.

How in the world is anadrol a prohormone and not have anabolic activity and not have activity ? Anadrol isnt a diol and is beta-hydroxy'd.

And you said the diol's might not have anabolic activity then how in the world could methyl-4ad have activity? if the base isnt anabolic, neither is it methylated cousin.

 

[cockdezl]

mike raz=smacked assed animal wannabe with theories based on comic book science....so mikey what do you think about cosmic rays?

WOJ, pro-cosmic rays are the shit. Me and this chick used cosmic rays, and I blew up into a 500lb solid orange stone freak. I got huge strength from it, and the girl can now turn invisible. Great shit...you can buy the kit to convert your pro-cosmic rays into an injectable, from Animal.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

MikeRaz, by nothing more than pure luck (after all if you guess about shit 1000 times you are right once or twice), actually is probably right about the methyl nor-5-diol being estrogenic because the non-methylated nor-5-diol has shown very strong binding to the ER (quite a bit more even than 5-diol)

I wasn't saying that statement was wrong actually, just that he had no basis for making an assumption like that. Guessing correctly by way of warped logic doesn't count

- Bill

 

[wojo]

WOJ, pro-cosmic rays are the shit. Me and this chick used cosmic rays, and I blew up into a 500lb solid orange stone freak. I got huge strength from it, and the girl can now turn invisible. Great shit...you can buy the kit to convert your pro-cosmic rays into an injectable, from Animal.

yeah i used that kit also didn't get big but i had a weird side effect (that i'm not complaining about at all ) i now have a ..a..3rd leg that stretches..i tried it out in a fantastic four way with 3 brunettes last night...now all i need ist to get in better shape lmao

wonder if someone will offer a methylated version,wonder what it will assay out to be

 

[pa1ad]

Wow slow down here i never said you dont know any information and are not knowledgable , i do respect your knowledge and innovations allot . But theres also room for the knowledge of animal and others who i get most of my info from.

How in the world is anadrol a prohormone and not have anabolic activity and not have activity ? Anadrol isnt a diol and is beta-hydroxy'd.

And you said the diol's might not have anabolic activity then how in the world could methyl-4ad have activity? if the base isnt anabolic, neither is it methylated cousin.

Do you know the definition of prohormone? Anadrol might be a prohormone because it has negligible binding to the androgen receptor in-vitro, yet it is very active in-vivo. This suggests that it converts in the body to the active species, and there are several possible active metabolites of anadrol that have been identified.

AS far as your comment on diols, please try to look up the term "intrinsic". You are not following the context of the discussion at all. You are very confused.

 

[MIKERAZ]

Do you know the definition of prohormone? Anadrol might be a prohormone because it has negligible binding to the androgen receptor in-vitro, yet it is very active in-vivo. This suggests that it converts in the body to the active species, and there are several possible active metabolites of anadrol that have been identified.

AS far as your comment on diols, please try to look up the term "intrinsic". You are not following the context of the discussion at all. You are very confused.

Anadrol is not a pro-hormone it isnt a diol!!, second if 4ad doeasnt have intrinsic activity then methyl-4ad doesnt either , my source tells me if the parent hormone isnt anabolic then its methylated -version wont be anabolic either.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

Anadrol is not a pro-hormone it isnt a diol!!, second if 4ad doeasnt have intrinsic activity then methyl-4ad doesnt either , my source tells me if the parent hormone isnt anabolic then its methylated -version wont be anabolic either.

Mikeraz, I'm sorry, but this is the same dumb-ass thing you posted 2 days ago. The universe has not changed since then.

 

[pa1ad]

Anadrol is not a pro-hormone it isnt a diol!!, second if 4ad doeasnt have intrinsic activity then methyl-4ad doesnt either , my source tells me if the parent hormone isnt anabolic then its methylated -version wont be anabolic either.

You are good for a million laughs mikeraz, really. I ask you one more time, what is the definition of a prohormone?

Also, your "source" has once again displayed his ignorance. There ARE examples of steroids that are anabolic in the 17-methyl form but are inactive in the non 17-methyl form. Case in point: Thiomesterone (US pat# 3087942)

You see MikeRaz, I have spent the last ten years reading scientific literature on this topic - thousands and thousands of hours in the library. Your source probably read a few things here and there and then figured that he is such a genius that he can figure the rest of it out through his brilliant intellect. But you see this is not philosophy, it is science, and science is not something that you just figure out sitting on the toilet.

I think its time you found a new guru to follow MikeRaz.

 

[MIKERAZ]

You are good for a million laughs mikeraz, really. I ask you one more time, what is the definition of a prohormone?

Also, your "source" has once again displayed his ignorance. There ARE examples of steroids that are anabolic in the 17-methyl form but are inactive in the non 17-methyl form. Case in point: Thiomesterone (US pat# 3087942)

You see MikeRaz, I have spent the last ten years reading scientific literature on this topic - thousands and thousands of hours in the library. Your source probably read a few things here and there and then figured that he is such a genius that he can figure the rest of it out through his brilliant intellect. But you see this is not philosophy, it is science, and science is not something that you just figure out sitting on the toilet.

I think its time you found a new guru to follow MikeRaz.

I do admit there seems to be conflicting info between my sources and the ones here (e.g Pro-Hormones must be dimethylated not single methylated,and he never read anything good about dimethylated Pro-hormones etc.). So are there any other Pro-hormones non diol , like anadrol? Did they ever dimethylate 4ad or other Pro-hormones



I guess i maybe should be more open to peoples opinion but i still say animals intelligence is high due to synovex kit etc.

 

[pa1ad]

I do admit there seems to be conflicting info between my sources and the ones here (e.g Pro-Hormones must be dimethylated not single methylated,and he never read anything good about dimethylated Pro-hormones etc.). So are there any other Pro-hormones non diol , like anadrol? Did they ever dimethylate 4ad or other Pro-hormones



I guess i maybe should be more open to peoples opinion but i still say animals intelligence is high due to synovex kit etc.

Mike Raz, you are confusing intelligence with knowledge. Socrates was one of the most intelligent people ever to live, but do you think he knew a goddam thing about steroids?

 

[lanky]

classic PH wars

 

[g35mann]

Ther author of the anabolics series books was a member of this forum?

 

[lanky]

Ther author of the anabolics series books was a member of this forum?

yes,, pat and bill were active members 3-4 years ago