Prohormone/steroid Q

[triggerfinger]

for Par

Just started using one+ and have been taking about 400 mg of 4 and 200 mg 5 AD with 1000mg of 19 nor before i started the one+( for 2 weeks). I plan to drop the 19 nor.

I know the one+ has 4 ad is there any benifit or detriment to continue to take the oral 4ad,5ad combo.

I bought it sooo I have it.

In addition may it be a good idea to start post cycle with 1 week of only 4AD. My thought was to help with the libedo

 

[ReggieJ]

Shit. You're right man, I meant 1000mg of 1-t vs a 500mg + 500mg approach. I remember reading somewhere that if you ignore side effects there was no real reason to stack, e.g deca + dbol. just take the dbol was the author's approach.

 

[Par Deus]

Re: for Par

Just started using one+ and have been taking about 400 mg of 4 and 200 mg 5 AD with 1000mg of 19 nor before i started the one+( for 2 weeks). I plan to drop the 19 nor.

I know the one+ has 4 ad is there any benifit or detriment to continue to take the oral 4ad,5ad combo.

The 5-AD will add some estrogen, which will have numerous benefits on muscle growth. The 4-AD won't add anything that the ONE+ is not already doing, simply because the max effective dose of 4-AD is included (assuming you are using the high dosing).

 

[Par Deus]

Shit. You're right man, I meant 1000mg of 1-t vs a 500mg + 500mg approach. I remember reading somewhere that if you ignore side effects there was no real reason to stack, e.g deca + dbol. just take the dbol was the author's approach.

Was wondering when you would notice that -- sorry for fucking with you

Anyway, I don't think the 500 + 500 would be more effective, just because 1-test is so much stronger than 4-AD, but there is an advantage to adding 4-AD to 1-test, namely it will provide some estrogen. So, if you went 800mg 1-test and 1800mg 4-AD (which would cost the same as 1000mg of 1-test), it would be superior for adding muscle.

Also, want to note that those are just example dosages, not recommendations.

 

[ReggieJ]

Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??

Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,

"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".

I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.

 

[triggerfinger]

rectal - are you kiddin me!!

Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??

Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,

"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".

I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.

Yo bro I don't even wanna think about putting anything up my ass.

I think this trandermal one+ is unbelievable. Yeah it burns a little. I shave my arms and when I apply the one+ they go on fire, get real red and blotchy but it goes away, and after my cycle it will go away for good, and.............when I am done I will mostly likly add 10 pounds of lean mass,sooooooooo I think its worth it

 

[pa1ad]

Thanks for replying Par. Shit, what would 1000 grams of roids per day do I wonder??

Anyway, I have one more question. Pat Arnold has said on another board that he uses oral 1-AD because it was superior to the trnasdermal. Yet everyone on this board seems to think transdermals are better. Can you definitely state transdermal 1-t is better than oral 1-t? Pat's exact words were,

"drugs that are broken down alot in the liver tend to have better
bioavailability transdermally. Drugs that are not broken down as much
in the liver OTOH have better bioavailability by the oral route. this
is because absorption is low through the skin but high in the GI tract.
First pass liver destruction therefore is the key here. Apparently it
is not as high with 1-AD as with other prohormones ".

I can't say I'm keen at all on a transdermal because I have sensitive skin. Is there any other solution for a higher rate of bioavailability, e.g. nasal or rectal? Cheers dude.

A good example of what i said would be dianabol. What do you think works better, oral dianabol or transdermal dianabol? Oral of course. That is because dianabol is resistant enough to liver degradation that enough will get through to make oral superior to transdermal delivery (which is greatly limited by a low permeation capacity)


I do not think that 1-AD/1-test is as resistant to first pass as dianabol, however I think it is enough so to make the oral route superior. My findings comparing 1-AD caps to a prototype topical 1-AD formula clearly demonstrated this to me.

 

[Par Deus]

People using bulk 1-test, orally, are taking about twice the daily dose of 1-test as is in the highest dosing of ONE and getting, at best, the same results.

 

[ReggieJ]

I don't really know how to reconcile the opinions of Pat and Par. Are strength gains also drastically greater in transdermal users in your opinion mg for mg? If not, could the transdermals be causing a water retaining effect leading to the illusion of higher gains than the orals?

 

[Par Deus]

I don't really know how to reconcile the opinions of Pat and Par.

1) We use different transdermal formulas.

2) He is speaking in reference to 1-AD, am am talking about 1-test. I know they had differing rates of urinary excretion of 17beta-hydroxyl steroids -- also, pretty sure that some of 1-AD is metabolized to 1-test in the liver -- even when 1-test is metabolized to other 17beta-hydroxyl steroids, they probably are not as potent as 1-test itself was, so perhaps 1-AD has some advantages over 1-test as far as oral delivery is concerned.

Thus, the differing opinions do not necessarily need to be reconciled.