Powerlifting to suppliment Bodybuilding?

[Natural_Teen]

Im a 18 yo 185 lb (offseason) bodybuilder...or atleast that is what i call myself do to my training method. Though during the offseason i always bulk to throw on some extra mass and hopefully most of it will be lean. Though, i also change my routine to 3 sets of 6,5,4's(reps) for large muscles and 2 sets of 6,5,4 for smaller muscle groups. I was wondering if you guys think i would building more muscle and gain more raw size by switchin to the westside method i the offseason. My only question is if my arms, back etc will grow in addition to the muscle groups involved primarily in the three core lifts. I know im no expert in westside, but there does not seam to be any exercises for biceps, calves, traps.... So will these muscle groups grow due to their connection when doing heavy movements? Like i said i have only been training for about 2 years and i have a lot to learn. I have already gained about 20+ lbs of lean mass with my training and i am just looking for new ways to spark muscle growth. I guess the real question here is does an increase in strength = increase in size? also what will happen to ones symetry if they turn to plfting? any help would be much appreciated

 

[benchmonster]

Symmetry has no place in powerlifting. We could give a rat's ass if the left side of our body looks like the right, or if our necks, biceps and calves are all the same size.

If you want to see what you might look like after powerlifting, the only thing I can say is to look at a powerlifter who is built similar to you (height, shoulder and hip width, and length of arms, legs and torso) who has been powerlifting for a while. The way a 30ish year old powerlifter who has been in the sport a while looks is likely how you would look after 10 or 12 years powerlifting.

If you want to be pretty for the girls, tho, this is probably not the best way to go. Powerlifters have big belly's, which is a necessity for big squats, big triceps, and huge ham/hip/quadricep complexes, if they are bigger lifters. This is a gross overgeneralization, of course, but this is what tends to get built after years of training.

Powerlifters tend not, especially at the 220+ level, to have 6 pack abs, tho of course some do even at 300+ lbs. Kennely and Mendelson come to mind. Powerlifters also tend not to have huge bulging biceps, because bi's do not really directly contribute to a bigger total. And I don't know of too many powerlifters who get real concerned with calf training, tho I am sure there are some who do.

This is not the way to go if you are an aspiring IFBB pro. Nor, honestly is it the best, or certainly easiest way to build a "Bar Body" which is what most people who claim to be bodybuilders are wanting to do.

If you want to be as strong as you can be, then powerlifting or strongman is the way to go. If you want to look good, then you would probably be better off doing what the guys who look good do for training.

B.

 

[spatts]

Teen, it depends on genetics. I grow like a weed on the WSB plan because it incorporates strenth, speed, hypertrophy, etc...all in one program. I have been studying the 5x5 bodybuilding routines that the old school body builders used, back before there was a line in the sand between strength and size. There's NOT that big of a difference between WSB and 5x5. Training this way builds density...causes hyperplasia AND hypertrophy.

IMHO (if that's possible) the reason PLers aren't sporting the physique you have in mind is diet. PLers have to fuel their lifts, carbs and fats fuel lifts and aid in CNS recovery...these aren't cutting foods. I would challenge you to put any PLer on a cutting diet and put him next to a BBer. The density and muscle development are incredible. Becca Swanson looked leaner at 180 pounds in a BB comp than her 150 pound counterparts...density.

I may just be thinking of Vogelpohl, Halbert, Blakely, etc...but most of the PLers I like to keep an eye on don't fit that big belly description. I'd rather see over-developed obliques and ab walls than GH gut.

I think a modified version of WSB that allows for bicep, chest, and quad isolation here and there (not hard to incorporate) or a 5x5 are two of the smartest options for a BBer.

Works for me.

 

[Natural_Teen]

I agree with you spatts. This question came to mind when seeing that both arnold and fracno both had backrounds in plifting, which they states attributes much to their awesome muscle density. Though you say i should try a modified WSB routine that incorporates bi's, chest, and quads. I can see bi's, but why chest and quads? Wont squatting and deading on my max effort sq/dl day take care of that? the 5 x 5 routine looks pretty friggen demanding, though im not worried surmounting such a regimen. My only quam with such a routine is the fact that i struggle to get 7 hours of sleep a night, will a 5x5 be fully effective with this little amount of sleep? any replies welcome. thanks spatts and bench for the help

 

[spatts]

I think WSB is harder on the bod than 5x5, but that's just my opinion. If you are seeing good development in chest and quads from regular compound movement, then I don't see any need to supplement it. I personally do bi's about 1-2 times a month, and don't do quads or chest at all. If you find it lagging, just add it in.

 

[benchmonster]

Spatts with a "humble" opinion. Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!

Spatts you know I love you, but had to throw that one out there. The three fellas you mentioned, Blakely, Halbert and Vogelpohl, do not have big belly's, true. But Halbert did when he was a 275er, and JM does when he is at 308. Remember the pic in PLUSA of JM and I think Mendy, taken at the Push/Pull on the River? Very impressive physiques, but pretty thick through the middle.

Hell, I have a big belly. Doesn't keep me from being dead sexy, but it is no 28 inch waist either. Tee hee. 28 inch thigh, maybe, but not waist.

If you are not going to compete as a bodybuilder and just want a bigger stronger body, then by all means go with powerlifting. I have gained more size as well as strength powerlifting than I ever did doing anything else, but I am no means being mistaken as a bodybuilder, either. Dead sexy, mind you, but no bodybuilder.

Arnold was a strength athlete in the sport of strict curling, and Franco was a powerlifter. He claimed to be, in his time, the strongest bodybuilder in the world, and IMO (I leave out humble, nods to spatts) he was the strongest bodybuilder of his time.

But, in agreeing with Spatts on the genetics thing, some people are just born to be strong, and will to a large extent, get strong on any program, while others are just born to look good, and will look good on just about any program you put them on. So very few of us are lucky enough to have the total package of freakish strength, catlike grace, and reaction times, and good looks from Hell.

B.

 

[Natural_Teen]

I have been scouring the boards for a decent 5xr routine and didn't come up with much. Spatts you wouldnt happen to have one just lingering on your computer for posting for me would you? Also i was to use a WSB variation would the one posted on eft site be a good place to start or would you recomend a different WSB workout?

 

[growin']

I used to be more of a bodybuilder(pump artist). Now a days, I follow my version of Westside, with the occasional stone lifting thrown in for punishment. I think you can grow TONS of muscle by finding your own variation of westside.

I used to incorporate steroids into my training, and of course made great gains. I have been natural for 1 1/2 years now, have a natural test level that peaks at about 200(damn endo is still holding off on HRT ), work about 50-60 hours a week, and am still making STEADY siz gains along with my strength gains.

I have incorporated some ideas like 5x5 into my routine. I also like to wave my volume levels as well as periodize my MAX work. Here is what has been working for me, granted squats do not work well for me, so its mostly pushing and pulling:

Overall MAX and assistance Skeleton
1. MAX- High (14-16 sets assistance work)
2. TRIPLE-High (14-16)
3. (3x15-20)-Low (6-8)
4. MAX-Med (10-12)
5. TRIPLE-Med (10-12)
6. (6RM)-Low (6-8)
7. TEST NEW MAX-Low (6-8)

Week Five(10/28/02)-High Volume

Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Incline Close Grip Press MAX, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Dips (5x5)
3. Chest Supported Row (5x5)
4. One Arm Overhead DB Extension (2x20)
5. DB Cleans (2x12)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 4th hole Rack Deadlift MAX
2. Glute Ham Raise (5x5)
3. Step Ups (5x5)
4. Swiss Ball Crunch (3x12)
5. Farmer’s Walk 1MAX

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying Extensions w/ Band (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. Incline DB Curls (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Face Pulls (2x12)
5. L Laterals (2x12)

Friday (DYNAMIC leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Romanian Deadlift (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. Lunges (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Side Bend w/ Cable (3x15)
5. Heavy Hold (1MAX)

Week Six(11/4/02)-High Volume
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Incline Close Grip Press TRIPLE, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Dips (5x5)
3. Chest Supported Row (5x5)
4. One Arm Overhead DB Extension (2x20)
5. DB Cleans (2x12)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 4th hole Rack Deadlift TRIPLE
2. Glute Ham Raise (5x5)
3. Step Ups (5x5)
4. Swiss Ball Crunch (3x12)
5. Farmer’s Walk 1MAX

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying Extensions w/ Band (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. Incline DB Curls (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Face Pulls (2x12)
5. L Laterals (2x12)

Friday (DYNAMIC leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Romanian Deadlift (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. Lunges (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Side Bend w/ Cable (3x15)
5. Heavy Hold (1MAX)

Week Seven(11/11/02)-Low
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. DB Press on Ball 3x15-20, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Military Press (2x8)
3. Barbell Row (2x8)
4. Side Rotator (2x15)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 1/2 Rack Deadlift (3x15-20)
2. Standing Leg Curl (2x8)
3. Leg Press (2x8)
4. Russian Twist (2x15)

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying DB Extensions with Band (2x8)
3. DB Hammer Curls (2x8)
4. Rear L Laterals (2x12)

Friday (Dynamic leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Reverse Hyper (2x8)
3. Leg Extensions (2x8)
4. Supported Leg Raises (2MAX)

Week Eight(11/18/02)-Medium
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Close Grip MAX
2. California Press (5x5)
3. One Arm DB Row (5x5)
4. Pushdowns (1x20)
5. DB Snatch (1x12)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 3rd Hole Deadlift (MAX)
2. Lying Leg Curl (5x5)
3. Leg Extensions (5x5)
4. Crunch Leg Raise Combo (1x12)
5. Farmer’s Walk (1MAX)

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying DB Extensions (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. DB Hammer Curls (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Cable Laterals (1x12)
5. Rear Cable Laterals (1x12)

Friday (Dynamic leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Straight Leg Deadlift (2x8, 1x12, 1x15)
3. Lunges (2x8, 1x12, 1x16)
4. Hanging Leg Raise (1 MAX)
5. Heavy Hold (1MAX)

Week Nine(11/25/02)-Medium Volume
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Close Grip TRIPLE, rest 3-5 minutes
2. California Press (5x5)
3. One Arm DB Row (5x5)
4. Pushdowns (1x20)
5. DB Snatch (1x12)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 3rd hole Rack Deadlift (TRIPLE)
2. Lying Leg Curl (5x5)
3. Leg Extensions (5x5)
4. Crunch Leg Raise Combo (1x12)
5. Farmer’s Walk (1MAX)

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying DB Extensions (2x8,1x12,1x15)
3. DB Hammer Curls (2x8,1x12,1x15)
4. Cable Laterals (1x12)
5. Rear Cable Laterals (1x12)

Friday (DYNAMIC leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Straight Leg Deadlift (2x8, 1x12, 1x15)
3. Lunges (2x8, 1x12, 1x16)
4. Hanging Leg Raise (1 MAX)
5. Heavy Hold (1MAX)

Week Ten(12/2/02)-Low Volume
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Wide Grip 6RM, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Incline Close Grip Press (2x12)
3. Chest Supported Row (2x12)
4. DB Cleans (2x12)

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. 1st hole Rack Deadlift (6RM)
2. Reverse Hyper (2x12)
3. Lunges (2x12)
4. Overhead Cable Crunch (2x12)

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying Extensions (2x12)
3. DB Curls (2x12)
4. Face Pulls (2x12)

Friday (DYNAMIC leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Lying Leg Curls (2x12)
3. Step Ups (2x12)
4. Side Bend (2x12)

Week Eleven(12/9/02)-Low
Monday (MAX chest and back)
1. Test MAX, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Incline Close Grip Press (2x12)
3. Chest Supported Row (2x12)
4. DB Cleans (2x12

Tuesday (MAX trunk extension)
1. Test MAX, rest 3-5 minutes
2. Reverse Hyper (2x12)
3. Lunges (2x12)
4. Overhead Cable Crunch (2x12)

Thursday (DYNAMIC shoulders and arms)
1. Dynamic Bench (8x3)
2. Lying Extensions (2x12)
3. DB Curls (2x12)
4. Face Pulls (2x12)

Friday (Dynamic leg flexion)
1. Dynamic Deadlift (6x1)
2. Lying Leg Curls (2x12)
3. Step Ups (2x12)
4. Side Bend (2x12)

 

[rjl296]

I was a bodybuilder for 3 years. I gained 40 natural pounds, but i didn't get any stonger for a long while. I recently switched to a modified westside routine 3 weeks ago. My triceps and core muscles are already A LOt stronger than previous. I would reccommend trying it for a few months < that's my plans > to get stronger. But I have also noticed I need about .5 extra hours of sleep then I used to.