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Oly lifting bad for sport ?????

musketeer

musketeer

New member
So my buddy is trainng at a new boxing gym (one of London's best), and he's got this new trainer. I've been trying to get him to come and do some oly lifting wit hme because it will increase his power, skill and balance, etc. But anyhow, he's training at the gym and this huge guys doing clean and jerks with 250 and they talk about it and the trainer says "Dont do that. Just carry on with what we're doing and I'll tell you why later."

Thing is, I want to know right now! What the hell is wrong with doing some oly lifting if you are a boxer?????
 
Agreed. Would love to hear why olympic lifting would not be recommended for boxing.


Maybe the coach just does not know how to - and does not want to look the fool for not knowing how.
 
A lot of old time boxing coaches (and athletic coaches in general) believed that weight training made one slow. Obviously strength to weight ratio is important to maintain or improve ideally. In the case of boxing I think that although training has made huge inroads there is still more of this left than in most other sports. Not sure if this is true in this particular instance but something to consider.
 
Madcow2 said:
A lot of old time boxing coaches (and athletic coaches in general) believed that weight training made one slow. Obviously strength to weight ratio is important to maintain or improve ideally. In the case of boxing I think that although training has made huge inroads there is still more of this left than in most other sports. Not sure if this is true in this particular instance but something to consider.
Click to expand...


Could you imagine a major college/pro football program not weightlifting and still being competitive?
 
comparing a football athlete with a boxer is really a silly comparo...

boxing requires quickness, and extreme conditioning for continous period of time... with football, you need short powerful bursts...

boxers generally stick with alot of long distance cardio training with their weights... you won't find many "boxers" throwing up big weights, as it's not condusive to their goals...
 
diesel gli said:
comparing a football athlete with a boxer is really a silly comparo...

boxing requires quickness, and extreme conditioning for continous period of time... with football, you need short powerful bursts...

boxers generally stick with alot of long distance cardio training with their weights... you won't find many "boxers" throwing up big weights, as it's not condusive to their goals...
Click to expand...

I wasnt talking to you. ;)
 
Since most power is generated from the hips and legs, The clean and jerk should be a great lift for boxers. Light weight, high rep clean&&press is a great cardio workout. I think mekannik hit it on the head.
 
Madcow2 said:
A lot of old time boxing coaches (and athletic coaches in general) believed that weight training made one slow. Obviously strength to weight ratio is important to maintain or improve ideally. In the case of boxing I think that although training has made huge inroads there is still more of this left than in most other sports. Not sure if this is true in this particular instance but something to consider.
Click to expand...

So Mc, are you saying that the advice is essentially misguided?

I would reccomend that 2 days a weeks focusing on explosive movements would really help punching power, core strength and footwork.
 
musketeer said:
So Mc, are you saying that the advice is essentially misguided?

I would reccomend that 2 days a weeks focusing on explosive movements would really help punching power, core strength and footwork.
Click to expand...

I'm not really saying it is or is not. Depends a lot on what a given boxer needs at a point in time. Certainly more strength and power is always good, but there's a lot of other stuff needed that can be a lot more important. The point I was making is that boxing is about hitting hard to a degree but conditioning, technique and a whole lot of other factors weigh in. A lot of older traditional coaches avoided weightlifting as they thought it made someone slow or big and bulky - this is without knowing about strength to weight ratio etc... Obviously boxing has come a long way but from what I've heard (and I don't partically follow boxing) there is still some prevalence of this view - moreso than other sports anyway. So I don't really know what was going on or what the motivation might have been. Could be an ignorant coach, could be a really smart coach. Can't conclude much.
 
I think madcow is on the money. When someone begins training at the high level your friend is, he can't necessarily waste time with things that aren't sport specific. It's analagous to asking chess students to not play rapid chess in the park. What seems all to the good might disrupt not just physical skills but the total mindset needed to acheive success.
 
musketeer said:
I would reccomend that 2 days a weeks focusing on explosive movements would really help punching power, core strength and footwork.
Click to expand...

I agree. They may not be sport specific but there is definately a carry over.
 
If the coach can't COACH them on the OLY lifts...they they probably should NOT be doing them.

My training partner has a pretty extensive background in OLY lifting and he told me today that everyone needs an OLY coach with them for 1 full year of training before they can really begin to KNOW the OLY lift. He watched me try a hang snatch today and got so frutrated with my form as well as the language barrier (he is Russian) that we just gave up...lol.

B True
 
I don't think olympic lifts would be bad for boxing, but they're not the end-all, be-all of your performance in the ring. Technique and conditioning would likely come first, since a boxer needs to go for extended periods. More strength would only likely help, provided the increase doesn't hinder any other attribute. Increasing the ability for the muscles utilized in boxing to be explosive (i.e., those involved in punching) would be beneficial. I can't see any reason why they wouldn't.
 
i recall some post in one of the forums.... maybe it was something about bodybuilders vs powerlifters (?). anyway someone made some comment about andrew golota... the guy is 6'8", 275 and cannot bench more than 300 (i think that was the figure). not sure about the authenticity of the numbers on the bench... but assuming it was close, then that does add an interesting angle to this discussion.
 
Go take a visit to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs and you will see almost every sport and their mother doing Olympic lifts....Even the divers are doing it!

I grew up there, only reason I know!
 
I want to add that a lot of times coaches, and many of them well-known coaches, knock the olympic lifts. The real reason for this is because either they never learned how to do them, they simply suck at them, or they have no clue how to coach them, or any combination of these three.

These coaches will say the o-lifts aren't sport-specific, they are harmful to the joints, they are a waste of time, or my personal favorite, box squats will get you the same kind of explosion.

These coaches lose my respect for their trying to justify not incuding olympic lifts. I would have all the respect in the world for them if they simply said something like I really never learned the o-lifts myself and am not 100% comfortable teaching them as I don't want you to get hurt and I don't want to teach you to do something wrong, I feel other methods can prepare you equally as well......but you never see that and you get coaches knocking the lifts because they can't just admit that they don't have the first clue about them.
 
Might be of interest: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/dept/coachsci/csa/vol21/bell.htm

Bell, G. J., Petersen, S. R., Quinney, A. H., & Wenger, H. A. (1989). The effect of velocity-specific strength training on peak torque and anaerobic rowing power. Journal of Sports Sciences, 7, 205-214.

This study failed to show performance benefits that are supposed to result from resistance training programs. It supports the absolute specificity of training principle and suggests that an emphasis on resistance training in high-level athletes is not useful for improving performance. Such programs may even restrict the volume of beneficial specific training that can be achieved because of the level of fatigue that results from their execution. Neither modern training theory nor the mounting evidence of the ineffectiveness of specific resistance training programs supports the continued emphasis on this type of training as a means of generating performance improvements in high-caliber athletes.
Click to expand...
 
cubuff27 said:
Go take a visit to the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs and you will see almost every sport and their mother doing Olympic lifts....Even the divers are doing it!

I grew up there, only reason I know!
Click to expand...


I saw a video of Tommy Moe, Olympic gold-medal downhill skier, doing Clean & Jerk with 225 for reps. I paid attention to this since he's from Alaska and I am too, and Olympic gold medalists are rock stars up here. If clean & jerk, especially with such high weight (that he did so fluidly with ease) is good enough for him, I suspect it's not necessarily bad for everyone else.

Since Tommy Moe obviously was successful in his training, there must be something to it. I would guess that while clean & jerk is far from sport-specific for him, he as most elite athletes probably "periodize" their training year-round, going into "brute" physical development (pure running, weightlifting, etc.) in the early offseason, then gradually backing off unrelated activities & progressing back into sport-specific activities as their competitive seasons draw near. (Perhaps boxers don't have this luxury, since the pro boxers, at least, seem to compete year-round.)
 
My buddy is ignoring his trainer and coming oly lifting with me anyway! Seems his trainer's coming out with loads of wierd shit like:

Protein powders are bad for you - drink raw eggs!

Chinups are not weight training because there are no weights, but cleans will make you slow because they are with weights!

His knee pains will go away when he loses weight - stretching will just make the joints less tight (tight is apparently a good thing!)

Yada, Yada, Yada...
 
musketeer said:
My buddy is ignoring his trainer and coming oly lifting with me anyway! Seems his trainer's coming out with loads of wierd shit like:

Protein powders are bad for you - drink raw eggs!

Chinups are not weight training because there are no weights, but cleans will make you slow because they are with weights!

His knee pains will go away when he loses weight - stretching will just make the joints less tight (tight is apparently a good thing!)

Yada, Yada, Yada...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately while there has been many advances in strength and conditioning in other sports, boxing is still rooted in "old school" tradition and the majority of trainers are full of bad advise in terms of strength and conditioning.

i've gotta run but:
www.rossboxing.com <-send your friend here for good info
 
musketeer said:
My buddy is ignoring his trainer and coming oly lifting with me anyway! Seems his trainer's coming out with loads of wierd shit like:

Protein powders are bad for you - drink raw eggs!

Chinups are not weight training because there are no weights, but cleans will make you slow because they are with weights!

His knee pains will go away when he loses weight - stretching will just make the joints less tight (tight is apparently a good thing!)

Yada, Yada, Yada...
Click to expand...

OMFG.... thats a riot... ROTFLMFAO
 
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